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Fartbox posted:Well the corona numbers in sweden went down pretty drastically so obviously wearing masks is not necessary to ride this out BUT we have so many deaths in our country compared to neighbours Pretty much, yeah. Although I am far from convinced that the masks in public would have helped (among care workers is another thing).
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Aug 28, 2020 09:47
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D. Ebdrup posted:i'm against the use of the word mundbind Same, mostly because it seems to make people think they don't have to cover their nose with them.
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Aug 28, 2020 09:53
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Facebook translator tells me the Dutch call them "mundhuer", I think we should adopt that.
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Aug 28, 2020 10:12
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Fjæslapp
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Aug 28, 2020 11:11
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Cardiac posted:Pretty much, yeah.
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Aug 28, 2020 11:25
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Fartbox posted:Well the corona numbers in sweden went down pretty drastically so obviously wearing masks is not necessary to ride this out BUT we have so many deaths in our country compared to neighbours Can't have corona if there's no one left to infect.
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Aug 28, 2020 11:30
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ansigt trusser
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Aug 28, 2020 11:30
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Rust Martialis posted:ansigt trusser
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Aug 28, 2020 12:43
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Kjeftpledd
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Aug 28, 2020 12:45
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trynikker
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Aug 28, 2020 12:52
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evil_bunnY posted:dumbass techbro strikes again Given that I don’t work in tech and I think you do, maybe the opposite? Also, you apparently haven’t read the latest läkartidningen.
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Aug 28, 2020 13:20
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it's been a few weeks since i got up to date on this poo poo but iirc the benefit of mass public mask use is real but pretty marginal. i get the impression that it's such a sticking point because it's very visible while not being very intrusive, so it's a way of mobilising people without risking very much, and so is natural kindling for moralism and culture war
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Aug 28, 2020 13:28
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Mask use would have been a nice part of a bigger response, but in the current context it is mostly optics.
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Aug 28, 2020 13:34
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V. Illych L. posted:it's been a few weeks since i got up to date on this poo poo but iirc the benefit of mass public mask use is real but pretty marginal. i get the impression that it's such a sticking point because it's very visible while not being very intrusive, so it's a way of mobilising people without risking very much, and so is natural kindling for moralism and culture war thotsky posted:Mask use would have been a nice part of a bigger response, but in the current context it is mostly optics.  Where is this coming from?! It’s a respiratory illness! Putting something over your face that limits the physical spread of the particles you exhale doesn’t seem controversial to me
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Aug 28, 2020 14:11
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SplitSoul posted:"Högerextrem"? In Denmark they're simply referred to as "immigration critics" by all but the far-left media, despite Paludan's numerous convictions for racism, etc. Haha, not only will we not keep him, he was denied entry and is now banned from entering Sweden for two years. Potrzebie fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Aug 28, 2020 |
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Aug 28, 2020 14:29
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david_a posted:
it's a reasonable intuition, but apparently the practical reality is that it's not a massively effective intervention due to compliance problems, improper technical use and reduction in commitment to e.g. distance when people feel protected by mask this isn't my field, but i did a read-through of empirical public health studies about a month ago and that was the impression that i ended up with and it seems largely borne out by e.g. FHI
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Aug 28, 2020 14:34
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V. Illych L. posted:it's a reasonable intuition, but apparently the practical reality is that it's not a massively effective intervention due to compliance problems, improper technical use and reduction in commitment to e.g. distance when people feel protected by mask "People aren't doing it right so it's not worth doing" is an excellent conclusion. Truly A++, masks are worthless. If only we had some sort of institution dedicated to among other things educating people on matters of health and managing a national response to a pandemic. Oh well, nothing to be done, time to wait for the herd immunity to kick in.
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Aug 28, 2020 15:30
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It's a good thing that humble pie is tasty and not made out of even a small percentage of pigs poo poo.
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Aug 28, 2020 15:46
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I could buy that argument better if the Swedish response didn’t heavily (entirely?) lean on the personal responsibility of individuals to do the right thing
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Aug 28, 2020 16:15
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Cynic Jester posted:"People aren't doing it right so it's not worth doing" is an excellent conclusion. Truly A++, masks are worthless. If only we had some sort of institution dedicated to among other things educating people on matters of health and managing a national response to a pandemic. Oh well, nothing to be done, time to wait for the herd immunity to kick in. it's unclear to me where you're getting this conclusion from what i posted if a measure fails because people don't respond as one thinks they should, that's a problem with the measure. there is probably some implementation of the mask thing that could work, but it would likely be very expensive and involved (for starters, you'd have to make them pretty much freely available everywhere they're mandatory to prevent reuse), and a big part of the appeal of mandatory masks is that it's a cheap(for the government) and simple measure. like, when people drive too quickly and die in traffic we lower the speed limit, we don't tell people to git good
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Aug 28, 2020 16:22
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Potrzebie posted:Haha, not only will we not keep him, he was debited entry and is now banned from entering Sweden for two years. lmao
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Aug 28, 2020 16:23
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V. Illych L. posted:it's unclear to me where you're getting this conclusion from what i posted I mean, if the issues with the measure boil down to insufficient education and a desire to save money, I'm of the opinion that the problem does not lie with the measure itself, but rather the lack of political will behind it. And your analogy feels off. I'm not asking for people to get good, I'm asking for the government to get good.
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Aug 28, 2020 16:54
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Cynic Jester posted:I mean, if the issues with the measure boil down to insufficient education and a desire to save money, I'm of the opinion that the problem does not lie with the measure itself, but rather the lack of political will behind it. but then what makes the measure attractive disappears and you're back to telling people to wash their hands and distance idk these things need to be balanced against each other, we shouldn't be dogmatic about masks if the implementation is likely to not be cost effective, especially since it's likely to involve importing another idiotic culture war unless very carefully handled
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Aug 28, 2020 18:10
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 saviours of the western world
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Aug 28, 2020 20:00
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Beeswax posted:
Well I'm convinced.
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Aug 28, 2020 20:07
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I'm at a Norwegian university and I've barely seen a mask. I have chatted about it on discord and students mostly say they don't use masks because A: they're sold out everywhere (this was a week ago) and literally only one dude who got a pack from his parents had been able to acquire any and B: expensive as gently caress. Other measures on campus such as reduced auditorium capacity with designated entrances/exits, registration of attendance, hand sanitizer everywhere, required booking for study-rooms etc are being followed pretty well, I'd say 80%+ of students, but as said no masks. There is definitely blame to place on the government and university authorities for not enforcing masks more strictly (basically none of the lecturers use masks either), but as long as masks are not significantly more accessible the result would only be more students getting terrible grades or just failing because they can't access campus without masks and have to rely on the online garbage these courses offer to get their education. From experience I can say that online-only is not a satisfactory offering for any remotely challenging field and naturally is simply not possible for fields that require specialized tools and machinery for training/teaching students. The ideal solution would be for everyone to show up with masks while maintaining the use of other preventative measures, but the primary barriers for that does not seem to be cultural or political but simply supply and cost. E: Also can confirm that the people I occasionally do see around town with masks all happily pull them under their nose or take them off to eat or whatever so there's clearly an education issue as well (presumably if it was a 'not giving a gently caress' issue they would just go maskless in the first place like everyone else). Insurrectionist fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Aug 28, 2020 |
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Aug 28, 2020 20:17
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V. Illych L. posted:it's a reasonable intuition, but apparently the practical reality is that it's not a massively effective intervention due to compliance problems, improper technical use and reduction in commitment to e.g. distance when people feel protected by mask V. Illych L. posted:if a measure fails because people don't respond as one thinks they should Protip, there's a pretty extensive body of research into how to get populations to comply with ostensibly unpopular healthcare measures. evil_bunnY fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Aug 28, 2020 |
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Aug 28, 2020 21:01
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I bought a few masks in the beginning of the Corona-times but I never wore them, mostly because nobody else is and I don't want everyone to look at me like I'm a weirdo. This seems to be the common response by most people I've talked to as well, seems like most people would wear masks if it was more common in the first place.
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Aug 28, 2020 21:20
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Beeswax posted:
Lol I saw the guy on the left, the biker flag guy with the goatee, today at a pizzeria (Paulibron in Malmö). I’m not sure why, but he was attacking some random dude on the street? Together with his friend who was wearing a t-shirt with ”death to all socialism” or similar. I had no idea and just thought they were random racists, but I had no idea why he had a flag with him. Now i do! :P E: when asked why he was kicking at the pssser-by, he shouted ”because he gotin my way!”. There was a big image of Jesus Christ on the back of his biker suit. When denmark sends people across the border, they don’t send their best, etc. lilljonas fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Aug 28, 2020 |
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Aug 28, 2020 21:27
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Kamrat posted:I bought a few masks in the beginning of the Corona-times but I never wore them, mostly because nobody else is and I don't want everyone to look at me like I'm a weirdo.
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Aug 28, 2020 21:32
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Beeswax posted:
Quoting this, I can see there's a link for an image. Why can't I see it in the post? That's some gob on that dude. Imagine the breath.
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Aug 28, 2020 21:53
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THE BAR posted:Quoting this, I can see there's a link for an image. Why can't I see it in the post? Might be extension-related, it's been like that for twitter images for years in my case even though there are no obvious culprits being blocked by noscript/ublock so I just learned to live with it. E: The weird thing is I don't have trouble seeing any non-twitter images nor do I have issue seeing twitter embeds on other sites so it's some SA/twitter integration thing I guess.
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Aug 28, 2020 22:25
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evil_bunnY posted:Yes if you don't wear the masks, masks don't help. Also if you wear the mask but then ignore the other contingency management. What a genius analysis. you're being pretty categorical about the mask thing - why? if it's not a cost-effective measure, why bother?
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Aug 28, 2020 22:35
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again, i believe that mass use of masks can be an effective measure from a public health perspective, but the actual implementations as policy haven't seemed to be especially good and so it's clearly not trivial to carry out. if it's easier to just get people to keep their distance and these things are to some extent contradictory, then imo we should do that instead
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Aug 28, 2020 22:38
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A Buttery Pastry posted:This is why I’m wearing mine, outside the off chance of me getting into contact with a plaguebearer. In any case, who cares if you look like a weirdo, you’re masked up! I just wish they would make it obligatory to wear a mask when doing certain tasks like shopping/riding the bus etc. But the Swedish government just keeps dragging their feet on this and this makes fewer people wear masks in general because no one wants to be the odd one out. (myself included). It's not that I'm vain, I just don't want to get weird looks, it's kind of an issue for me since I already do have an anxiety disorder.
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Aug 29, 2020 00:14
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david_a posted:
Cynic Jester posted:"People aren't doing it right so it's not worth doing" is an excellent conclusion. Truly A++, masks are worthless. If only we had some sort of institution dedicated to among other things educating people on matters of health and managing a national response to a pandemic. Oh well, nothing to be done, time to wait for the herd immunity to kick in. And yet, they were never made a requirement. I'm not saying mask are ineffective at covering your mouth and nose; I'm saying that in a country where the borders are open, public transportation is packed with no restrictions on the amount of passengers, bars and restaurant are overflowing and the prevailing advice and general attitude from the government seems to be for people to go back to business as long as they remember to wash their hands... well, wearing a mask becomes, literally, a personal choice, and functionally, one that reflects on your values faaaar more than it contributes to fighting the epidemic. Don't get me wrong, I have mine, and I'll be wearing it for the protest tomorrow, but I believe that it is tantamount to arranging deck chairs on the titanic. If they were made mandatory as part of a larger set of restrictions they would have far greater impact, and I would have supported that wholeheartedly, but the fact that it's being left up to the populace to voluntarily use them where they see fit should tell you something about the efficacy of masks in our current predicament.
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Aug 29, 2020 02:13
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Kamrat posted:It's not that I'm vain, I just don't want to get weird looks, it's kind of an issue for me since I already do have an anxiety disorder. thotsky posted:Don't get me wrong, I have mine, and I'll be wearing it for the protest tomorrow, but I believe that it is tantamount to arranging deck chairs on the titanic. If they were made mandatory as part of a larger set of restrictions they would have far greater impact, and I would have supported that wholeheartedly, but the fact that it's being left up to the populace to voluntarily use them where they see fit should tell you something about the efficacy of masks in our current predicament.
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Aug 29, 2020 05:37
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Beeswax posted:
 I wondered where Dan Park was in all this, turns out he arranged the original protest that was cancelled by police. DR article mentions it in passing and that he, like Paludan, has a conviction for racism—no mention of the fact that the nazi had an exhibition in parliament arranged by DF that was attended by numerous ministers and MPs.
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Aug 29, 2020 08:48
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I've been going to the gym 5 times a week since february when this all started getting a lot of attention here and the gym has been packed with people. Pretty sure I've been exposed to corona at least 100 times by now. The staff there wants people to wipe equipment down after use but only like 30% of people do it and no one does it to the dumbbells so the place is still 100% infectious It's a nice little microcosm of society at large
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Aug 29, 2020 09:02
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thotsky posted:And yet, they were never made a requirement. My point is that the government has the wrong attitude not only towards mask but the pandemic as a whole and if we'd had a proper response from the government from day 1 and onwards, wearing masks wouldn't be something a minuscule portion of the population were doing, nor would masks be expensive instead of freely provided. Of course implementing mandatory masks now without changing anything else wouldn't do poo poo, but that's not an inherent problem with wearing masks to manage the spread of a respiratory illness, it's a result of our government de-prioritizing managing the spread and how luke warm their messaging around it has become over time. The public discourse around masks is "They don't work, no point in wearing a mask, ever", not "They don't work in our situation because people and the government don't give a poo poo" and that's an incredibly bad thing to get ingrained in our society if a worse pandemic comes along.
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Aug 29, 2020 10:33
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