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jrodefeld posted:This is a topic that Walter Williams and Thomas Sowell have written extensively on. There is nothing controversial about what you quoted. I didn't realize there were so many jobs awaiting the average black teenage male so long as he drops out of high school.
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Jun 3, 2015 15:58
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Happy_Misanthrope posted:Not surprisingly, hardly under the sole domain of libertarianism either. You could acknowledge it anyway. "Good job, jrodefeld. Those are several really important reforms that certainly would help society and improve human flourishing." Even when I say things you agree with, you gloss over it entirely and resume hurling insults.
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Jun 3, 2015 15:59
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jrodefeld posted:This is a topic that Walter Williams and Thomas Sowell have written extensively on. There is nothing controversial about what you quoted.
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Jun 3, 2015 15:59
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do you think anyone has ever told jrod that part of the reason for mandatory education is to prevent parents from making their children work instead of going to school? do you think he realizes how utterly hosed someone is in America if they don't at least have a G.E.D.?
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Jun 3, 2015 16:00
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jrodefeld posted:You could acknowledge it anyway. "Good job, jrodefeld. Those are several really important reforms that certainly would help society and improve human flourishing." Because you tout these are good things that libertarianism is bringing to the table, when tehy were already there. It's like showing up to dinner and demanding credit for bringing the tableware that was already there before you arrived.
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Jun 3, 2015 16:00
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sudo rm -rf posted:I didn't realize there were so many jobs awaiting the average black teenage male so long as he drops out of high school. You will find there are many fine institutions willing to pay young black men a fair wage, and even provide room and board in the bargain! Why, I hear some of 'em like it so much they stay for 20, 25 years even!
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Jun 3, 2015 16:01
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jrodefeld posted:This is a topic that Walter Williams and Thomas Sowell have written extensively on. There is nothing controversial about what you quoted. Williams and Sowell are tremendous right-wing shills that Republicans love to quote to give their policies targeting minorities a veneer of anti-racism, but I am skeptical either of them ever said black teenagers would be better off dropping out and doing unskilled labor rather than finishing high school, quotes please.
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Jun 3, 2015 16:02
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jrodefeld posted:If there was any other institution that told you that they would have take your children away from you for 8 hours every day from when they are 4 or 5 to when they are 18 and you will be legally reprimanded if you resist what would you call it? Meanwhile in reality authoritative shitheads already build private schools with a specific intent to fill children's heads with propaganda and then go out of their way to hobble public schools.
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Jun 3, 2015 16:03
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If you want to be successful, drop out of highschool and get a job! said no one ever. I remember the advice our childhood heroes always gave us "Stay out of school kids."
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Jun 3, 2015 16:03
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Disinterested posted:You don't need to be able to read to pick cotton, it's just a waste of time VitalSigns posted:[THIS IS WHAT JRODEFELD ACTUALLY BELIEVES] jrodefeld posted:This is a topic that Walter Williams and Thomas Sowell have written extensively on. There is nothing controversial about what you quoted. #thingsjrodethinks That is where that quote trail leads back to. Being able to read is a waste of time for poor black kids - they may as well set about picking cotton.
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Jun 3, 2015 16:04
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Jrod is physically incapable of reading a chart so don't bother showing high school dropouts earning less. What's important is that a child learn just enough math to know what a two pump chump feels like.
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Jun 3, 2015 16:04
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Also perpetuating the myth that public schools are failing. American public schools, on the whole, are loving excellent. You see problems when you separate suburban schools from urban schools, and white kids from minority students. White kids in America score as high as any kids in the developed world, and urban white kids are not statistically different from their suburban counterparts. What could possibly explain this?
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Jun 3, 2015 16:06
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Grand Theft Autobot posted:Also perpetuating the myth that public schools are failing. American public schools, on the whole, are loving excellent. You see problems when you separate suburban schools from urban schools, and white kids from minority students. White kids in America score as high as any kids in the developed world, and urban white kids are not statistically different from their suburban counterparts. have you heard of the bell curve
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Jun 3, 2015 16:07
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Hmmm it is almost as though the solution is to decouple funding for schools from property taxes and to instead give them money according to their actual needs.
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Jun 3, 2015 16:09
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alright I gotta go now but seriously, jrod, you suck real bad and your opinions on schools sound like you got them from racist idiot conservatives.
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Jun 3, 2015 16:13
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It's almost as if market-based segregation leads to disparate outcomes for populations with fewer resources and political power. edit: and market-based segregation is going to reflect racial and cultural biases in the majority population. Grand Theft Autobot fucked around with this message at 16:18 on Jun 3, 2015 |
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Jun 3, 2015 16:14
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jrodefeld posted:You could acknowledge it anyway. "Good job, jrodefeld. Those are several really important reforms that certainly would help society and improve human flourishing." And none of those reforms need to come from the Libertarian side. Thanks.
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Jun 3, 2015 16:16
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No one would ever send children to a private school to be brainwashed by insane Dominionist Christian propaganda peppered with violence and abuse.        Accelerated Christian Education Social Studies PACE 1086 (1990, p.29) posted:The government must be responsible to the taxpayers who provide the money that the government spends. Since that is true only taxpayers should be given the privilege of voting… Watch out for Obama, he's gonna take your children!
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Jun 3, 2015 16:27
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jrodefeld posted:There is no reason to think that. Look at the situation today. The rich either go to elite private schools or their parents can afford to move to where the best public schools are while the poor suffer in completely failing public schools with no options or choice. This is not very equal. Well, yes, I have serious reservations about private institutions as well. I sometimes think schools like that should be banned outright (confession: I went to one such school. I was one of the least well-off kids there, even though my parents live a very comfortable life; many of my classmates' parents had private jets. Anyway, that's neither here nor there.) But, it also seems to be the case that there are students who have very particular educational needs, whether it is that they need more instructional scaffolding, or can handle a bigger challenge, or just need to be in a different kind of environment to learn. Presently, private schools are the main providers of this kind of thing, which is an important role. Maybe it could be filled by public institutions? I'm hopeful. There are charter schools, of course, but their reputation is mixed. They get a lot of preferential treatment from districts, and as someone married to a teacher I can tell you that their contribution to the slow death of teachers' unions is extremely painful for both teachers and students. Oh well. Secondly, as to federal involvement in education, do you realize it's fairly minor? There's NCLB, of course, but that's largely a funding package. Common core is a thing, sure, but most districts are not particularly limited by it. Even individual teachers have a significant amount of leeway when it comes to planning a class curriculum. Administrators pretty much just ask that they cite specific standards in their plans, which is annoying and onerous and time-consuming, but I haven't encountered any area where it seriously hampered a teachers' ability to exercise authority over their own curriculum. The vast majority of school administration is already local, for better or for worse, through the school districts. I mean, I guess you may just be objecting to federal funding for education, but this is just an artifact of your animus toward federal funding of anything. You haven't provided any direct evidence that local funding would A.) be sufficient to support districts, especially in impoverished areas, or B.) even if it was, that doing so would lead to better outcomes. I think one of our main disagreements here is that I think some things shouldn't be up for sale, and you seem to be leaning the opposite direction. Most people don't think that having more money should allow you to buy better outcomes in a court of law, for example (even if sometimes you can, by buying a better lawyer or secretly bribing a judge or whatever, people generally think that's at least distasteful). There's no contradiction in wanting to extend that principle to say that medical care and education also shouldn't be the sorts of things that are for sale. You can disagree about whether particular things should be for sale on the grounds of outcomes, but if you're just arguing from first principles that everything should be for sale, you'll have to bite the bullet on criminal justice. Maybe you're okay with that? As long as you understand that the vast majority of reflective people with considered political viewpoints are going to immediately make that into a modus tollens against your principles. Juffo-Wup fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Jun 3, 2015 |
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Jun 3, 2015 16:33
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I find this hilarious, because you'd have to also completely ignore a Frog's life cycle to think that something cannot evolve from a completely different form over time. Tadpole, tadpole, tadpole, ZAP frog!
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Jun 3, 2015 16:33
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CommieGIR posted:I find this hilarious, because you'd have to also completely ignore a Frog's life cycle to think that something cannot evolve from a completely different form over time. That's metamorphosis not evolution. 
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Jun 3, 2015 16:35
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Bob James posted:That's metamorphosis not evolution. Yes, I know, but it was to demonstrate that changes occuring even over a short period of time can change a creature from one form to another. Now, if metamorphosis can do it, why not nature over millions of years?
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Jun 3, 2015 16:41
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CommieGIR posted:And none of those reforms need to come from the Libertarian side. Thanks. The vast majority of libertarians vote for the party which violently opposes those policies.
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Jun 3, 2015 16:43
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I have to take a moment here to ask this question. Are libertarians welcome on the SA forums? You may disagree with everything I say but still value the contribution of someone who represents a different viewpoint. I mean, this is a thread dedicated to libertarian ideas so you might as well have an actual libertarian participating in the discussion, right? I don't see any other libertarians posting here. I am wondering if that is just by chance or is it that you purposefully attempt to drive them away? And are you trying to get me to stop posting and vacate these forums forever? Would you prefer SA be a close minded Socialist/left-wing circle jerk without interruption by dissenters? Obviously, I don't mind being outnumbered. I'm used to that. However, I am used to being treated like a loving human being when I post. That is why I am concluding that most of you must be purposely attempting to drive me away. It is not that you disagree with me, or that you bring up counterpoints that I object to. It is the relentless assault that is starting to get to me. Posting on a forum where you are outnumbered fifty to one and not a single other member is there who will back up a point you make is exhausting enough, but reading page after page of insults on top of it? I fly off the handle and call people names too. But there is no loving need for it. Every single loving post, it's "you loving retard", "you brainless piece of poo poo", "you worthless cumstain", etc. Unless your goal is to drive me away permanently, what loving purpose is there to this? I have heard stories that a number of you were once libertarians yourself and, unless that was just a lie, that ought to make you more compassionate. I was once a leftist and I understand that our life experiences are different. I could easily believe the things you believe if my life turned out differently, if I hadn't read this one book and instead read that one. The same goes for you. We're just human beings trying to figure out the world with our limitations. If you value a libertarian voice, not just as a punching bag, then I could post here once in a while. But there has got to be some degree of civility and a willingness to be intellectually honest. You can't simultaneously criticize me for going back and answering old posts and also criticize me for skipping over important posts in favor of newer ones. That is just one example. Purposely misunderstanding what I write just so you can call me a "racist" is a low tactic also. It's your call really. There is not much for me to gain by continuing under these circumstances.
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Jun 3, 2015 16:44
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Strawman posted:The vast majority of libertarians vote for the party which violently opposes those policies. Yup. These are also the guys who like to compare the US Federal Budget to a household budget, the irony being the people they tend to vote for would be the guys who, in a household budget, would make very poor financial decision and then quit their job.
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Jun 3, 2015 16:45
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Be Libertarians you guys, we're not Republicans honest, if you understood you'd see we're the true progressives. Open borders, free immigration! Oh and ALL LAND IS PRIVATE PROPERTY: NO MEXICANS! We're against slavery Jim Crow! Oh and DEFUND ALL BLACK SCHOOLS AND GET THEIR YOUNG SHARECROPPING WHEN THEY'RE FRESH Empower parents to control their child's education! OR LET COAL MINES BUY 'EM AND WRING WHAT THEY CAN OUT OF 'EM Remove barriers to social mobility! WE MEAN REPEAL ALL TAXES AND LET 1% OF THE WORLD BE BORN INTO OWNING 90% OF THE WEALTH
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Jun 3, 2015 16:45
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Strawman posted:The vast majority of libertarians vote for the party which violently opposes those policies. The complete embrace of this by Rothbard and Hoppe seems to have gone unnoticed by our newly christened Free Market Leftist. Hoppe said explicitly that Libertarians have to be conservatives, and Rothbard suggested that the best way for Libertarianism to get what it wants is to compromise on literally everything the GOP disagrees with them on.
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Jun 3, 2015 16:46
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CommieGIR posted:Yes, I know, but it was to demonstrate that changes occuring even over a short period of time can change a creature from one form to another. They will just tell you "Metamorphosis and evolution are two different things. Metamorphosis is real and evolution is not. We can see the life cycle of the frog, but we've never seen bacteria turn into a lobster with wings." That image is perfectly consistent with their retarded ideas.
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Jun 3, 2015 16:46
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jrodefeld posted:I have to take a moment here to ask this question. Are libertarians welcome on the SA forums? You may disagree with everything I say but still value the contribution of someone who represents a different viewpoint. I mean, this is a thread dedicated to libertarian ideas so you might as well have an actual libertarian participating in the discussion, right? People are angry at you because you post interminable screeds that are largely absent of original argument, you refuse to take stands on particular issues, and you seem incapable of sustained discussion on any question other than whether this or that member of the libertarian canon is racist. You strike people as insensible to argument, so they don't bother arguing with you. Also, a lot of us find your positions not just wrong, but brutally horrifying. You seem callous about the actual suffering of real people, which is offensive to many. The SA forums are not a place to go for emotional support goddamn. If it gets to you, you're in too deep. Nobody here can hurt you, do you realize that? Go eat a cupcake or something, come back if you feel like it, whatever. People are going to talk poo poo about you no matter who you are or where you go. How have you not yet learned this particular life lesson? Besides, independently of the watermelon-loving comments and insults, it's not like people haven't tried to earnestly engage with you. Maybe do them the same courtesy, rather than raging against how people are being mean to you. Edit: I mean, for gently caress's sake, go look at the I/P thread or something if you think this is the only thread where people are mean to each other. Juffo-Wup fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Jun 3, 2015 |
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Jun 3, 2015 16:52
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Why the gently caress should we mollycoddle you when we don't do it for anybody else? And don't loving pretend that you're here to have a conversation you loving liar, there have been hundreds of substantive posts directed to you that contained neither insult nor vulgarity and without fail you always ignore them or turn away and run away for two months hoping that we would forget so you could try and "reset" the thread for the millionth time. You're an ignorant child incapable of thinking for himself, much less debating anything, at best and much more likely a cowardly bigot.
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Jun 3, 2015 16:56
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You guys are so loving mean to me while I dodge questions, regurgitate links and quotes endlessly, fail to provide any original, independent thought or backing for my arguments that don't come from other people, and post insanely offensive poo poo, also I know I call you statists like some people would say "You jackbooted Nazi cunts" but it's not like I called you naaaaaaames  Respond to me Jrod, I argued with you while also callign you a cum-burping bitch. Come on. Let's do this. Get the stick out of your rear end and your rear end off that high loving horse and have an emotional response and get nasty with it. BItch. Fucker. Babytard shitlicker.
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Jun 3, 2015 16:59
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Also yeah lol at the "let's reset the thread" which is the most blatant "I'm not going to answer anything you've said" poo poo ever.
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Jun 3, 2015 17:00
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jrodefeld posted:You could acknowledge it anyway. "Good job, jrodefeld. Those are several really important reforms that certainly would help society and improve human flourishing." U mad jrodefeld? I'm phone posting since I have work to do today, but might I suggest simply pushing the ignore button on posters who annoy you? I've mostly kept a civil tone outside of the times you've said things that are particularly egregious, and I know posters like cemetry gator have given you well thought out and measured responses so do take heart that not everyone here hates you. I can't control other people or what you see, but if paragon1 posting kill yourself bugs you that much then put him on ignore and talk to the people who reply with actual substance. It helps I assure you! That said my offer of debating you is always open. I'll even buy you a webcam off Amazon if that is such an issue and you could get Hans hermann hoppe to moderate for all the gently caress I give.
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Jun 3, 2015 17:01
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jrodefeld posted:I have to take a moment here to ask this question. Are libertarians welcome on the SA forums? You may disagree with everything I say but still value the contribution of someone who represents a different viewpoint. I mean, this is a thread dedicated to libertarian ideas so you might as well have an actual libertarian participating in the discussion, right? There have been other libertarians in this thread. We didn't go nuts on them with insults at first, there's always a line they have to cross first. One guy with a Japanese username I can't remember came in making similar arguments to yours, and we responded to them rather civilly, prompting him to have a spectacular meltdown and quit the thread (and then came back several times to tell us how much he doesn't care what we post). Another came in and made different arguments, and then it turned out he was a white nationalist and got banned. jrodefeld posted:That is why I am concluding that most of you must be purposely attempting to drive me away. It is not that you disagree with me, or that you bring up counterpoints that I object to. It is the relentless assault that is starting to get to me. Posting on a forum where you are outnumbered fifty to one and not a single other member is there who will back up a point you make is exhausting enough, but reading page after page of insults on top of it? I fly off the handle and call people names too. But there is no loving need for it. Go read back to your triumphant return to the thread; the insults were a small minority of posters at first. The rest of us attempted to argue with you in good faith, only to have our arguments completely ignored or replied to with tangents based on whatever Mises article you read lately. Posters who binge-read the thread have commented on how hilarious it was to watch the level of civility and discourse slip as more and more of us got sick of your poo poo. Then you started trying to defend your idols' Race Realism views and the last of us gave up on you as a human being. A new libertarian poster would not be treated with this level of scorn. Note: if you try to adopt a new screenname to test this out, we'll sniff you out instantly unless you completely change your writing style to something less long-winded and obtuse. jrodefeld posted:Unless your goal is to drive me away permanently, what loving purpose is there to this? I have heard stories that a number of you were once libertarians yourself and, unless that was just a lie, that ought to make you more compassionate. Yes, if I hadn't been exposed to leftist ideas, I wouldn't be a leftist. But it's not like I haven't been exposed to libertarian ideas too! I looked at both sides and decided that people like Rawls make sense and people like Mises don't. You, on the other hand, show no hint that you've ever understood the ideas we've tried to get across to you. And what is this "I was once a leftist" stuff? I thought your new schtick was that libertarianism is totally a leftist idea guys? Giving up on that already? jrodefeld posted:We're just human beings trying to figure out the world with our limitations. Agreed. Some intellectual honesty out of you would make this thread a lot more civil. jrodefeld posted:You can't simultaneously criticize me for going back and answering old posts and also criticize me for skipping over important posts in favor of newer ones. That is just one example. I'm actually with you here. jrodefeld posted:Purposely misunderstanding what I write just so you can call me a "racist" is a low tactic also. We call you a racist because you parrot arguments against forced integration and complain about welfare queens and are totally cool with businesses discriminating against blacks.
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Jun 3, 2015 17:01
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Notice how he frames it so that his gaining something is what's important. Self-important little tick turd, you just want to fuckin proselytize your bullshit ideology for morons at us.
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Jun 3, 2015 17:03
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Jrod, I have tried to get you to respond to a particular set of questions about systems of health care for about 10 months. Here it is again, for your benefit:sudo rm -rf posted:And also seeing that you seem to be responding to people about actual things that affect how people live instead of ideas, would you mind going back and explaining why the NHS has been a better vehicle for providing care and controlling costs than the US' system of healthcare? Because it is utterly at odds with your suggestion that the problems of the US healthcare market are centered in government involvement. How do you contend with the data and examples that contradict you? Instead of getting mad at the individuals who grow increasingly tired of the charade, why don't you actually respond to the plethora of posts that would have you deal with the consequences of your proposals. I also challenged your insistence that adding more uneducated laborers to the unemployment pool would suddenly benefit the earning potential or experience of black teenagers. You have ignored this, as well.
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Jun 3, 2015 17:03
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Hans-Hermann Hopping mad.
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Jun 3, 2015 17:09
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jrodefeld posted:I have to take a moment here to ask this question. Are libertarians welcome on the SA forums? You may disagree with everything I say but still value the contribution of someone who represents a different viewpoint. I mean, this is a thread dedicated to libertarian ideas so you might as well have an actual libertarian participating in the discussion, right?
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Jun 3, 2015 17:34
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jrodefeld posted:I have to take a moment here to ask this question. Are libertarians welcome on the SA forums? You may disagree with everything I say but still value the contribution of someone who represents a different viewpoint. I mean, this is a thread dedicated to libertarian ideas so you might as well have an actual libertarian participating in the discussion, right? You don't see any other libertarians? There are plenty of libertarians posting here. But maybe because they do not post lengthy, tortuous defenses of "intellectuals" who defend apartheid and private racial discrimination, you don't consider them libertarians.
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Jun 3, 2015 17:53
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"Guys guys, my sources are all racist bigots and assholes, but that's beside the point!"
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Jun 3, 2015 17:56
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