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Minsky posted:I think medic healing would be much easier if DPS realized that, in order for the medic to heal most efficiently, the DPS needs to stay close to the medic which usually also means staying close to the boss (because the medic is usually close to the tank), and that goes completely against the instincts that a ranged DPS naturally has, which is to stay at a safe distance from the boss so that you can have a better view of the whole fight. I agree with this, and this is actually what confirmed my interest in primarily being a healer - for the most part, I kept the tank up absolutely perfectly, outside of them being stupid and standing in the worst telegraph possible, but all the time I would turn my camera slightly and holy poo poo why is this Spellslinger nearly dead wtf happened?? While some of that isn't my fault, since I'm sure they were standing in telegraphs they shouldn't have been, I still also have some control over this with my own positioning, and that created a very active part of healing other than rotation. Sure, some people are going to be incredibly stupid and die from the most ridiculous poo poo and then blame the healer, but at the very least I doubt it will ever get as bad as League of Legends. In WildStar you can just leave groups with stupid pugs (or, alternatively, kick them) without real penalty, but in League of Legends you're forced to sit through their bullshit because leaving is bad and will get you banned, duh.  It's just kind of something that anyone who likes the utility/support-specific role learns to either deal with or to become a huge bitch themselves, and the latter doesn't seem to stick around for long, anyway. a cat on an apple fucked around with this message at 01:05 on May 6, 2014 |
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May 6, 2014 01:01
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Rorus Raz posted:Maybe if, when you die to poo poo like that, the game plastered the message "YOU DIED AND IT'S YOUR FAULT, rear end in a top hat." large enough to cover the screen. Someone should make a UI mod that just tallies up the damage from telegraphed attacks and displays "You suffered x% avoidable damage!" on death. Or just one a healer can download that shows it for your whole group after a wipe. I say this as a healer who hated the beginning of WoWs Cataclysm heroics and does not like being blamed for people standing in fire. Not that that would stop DPS from saying "Just heal through it so I don't have to mess up my rotation, scrub" El Cid fucked around with this message at 02:05 on May 6, 2014 |
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May 6, 2014 01:14
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a cat on an apple posted:I agree with this, and this is actually what confirmed my interest in primarily being a healer - for the most part, I kept the tank up absolutely perfectly, outside of them being stupid and standing in the worst telegraph possible, but all the time I would turn my camera slightly and holy poo poo why is this Spellslinger nearly dead wtf happened?? While some of that isn't my fault, since I'm sure they were standing in telegraphs they shouldn't have been, I still also have some control over this with my own positioning, and that created a very active part of healing other than rotation. Yeah. There's actually a UI addon that puts up a giant arrow that points to anyone at low health, so that sort of helps, but even that isn't perfect because many times I was in a situation where there was a giant enemy telegraph between me and that spellslinger, and I had to dodge roll through it and eat a chunk of damage just so I could get to him in time to heal us both. Then when I got back, the tank had started to lose health. That's when things get stressful and I feel like I'm not in control. I think I almost spend less time healing and more time just spazzing out with the camera to keep everyone in my line of sight and somewhat in range. I wonder if espers/spellslinger healers have this problem as well. Or maybe I'm just not playing medic very well.
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May 6, 2014 02:00
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Minsky posted:That's when things get stressful and I feel like I'm not in control. 
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May 6, 2014 02:11
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No doubt. And I don't even necessarily consider that difficulty I mentioned for this game a bad thing because it gives an opportunity for good players to shine. I guess the only thing I would worry is that if it somehow turns out that this positioning issue is a problem specific to medics, well that would be a shame because I really like playing medic (the spell effects look cool).
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May 6, 2014 02:20
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Man, I did nothing but housing stuff this weekend. I leveled architecture, made a poo poo load out housing items, then tried to use them as creatively as possible. When I am done sorting through the 100+ screenshots, I'll upload some stuff for you guys to check out. I have to say, some things I wish they'd implement for housing - The ability to go to a specific persons house. No, I don't mean neighbors and junk, I mean the ability to type in a persons character name, and if their housing plot is set to public, you warp over there and can chill out. I mean, the 'visit random person' UI shows that you can make a house 100% public, but once you are there, you can't invite your friends, and there is no way to invite your buddies, or tell them the persons name so they can come too, short of you friending the owner and stalking their log ins/log outs and asking for a neighbor invite. I'd also love a way to rate a persons house. Like, as you leave a little thing pops up and says "What did you think of LuvsToSpooge's Crab Shack?". Actually some suggestions being thrown around here, if people feel like logging into the official forums (ugh): https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/40285-suggestion-housing-item-weapon-rack-more/
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May 6, 2014 02:23
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a cock shaped fruit posted:words words words You might want to check out The Visitor add-on Mount Desert fucked around with this message at 02:36 on May 6, 2014 |
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May 6, 2014 02:34
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It might not be in at launch but I'm guessing there's a way to increase your plot size? There's a lot of cool stuff and not a lot of space and the plot you're given is lebeled 1x1.
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May 6, 2014 02:54
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Mount Desert posted:You might want to check out The Visitor add-on This is super useful and absolutely needs to be base-game functionality. If two people go to the same non-private property at the same time(as in, not a Neighbor), will they be in the same instance of it or will it spawn one instance per player unless they're on a team or something? Anyone know?
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May 6, 2014 02:59
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Yea, I would imagine that it would be added later on as a base functionality but in the grand scheme of things it just isn't the priority list for launch. I will say that I am impressed by the functionality provided for add-ons. However, I don't have too much recent experience with more modern MMOs, so it may just be surprising in general.
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May 6, 2014 03:43
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WRT the Assault/Support power split, I don't get how that's any more confusing or irritating than how It was back when I played WoW. Warrior Tank and DPS one hands would have the same core stats, and people would throw massive shitfits at newer players who took a tank weapon not realizing that it's 25% more stam meant that it was clearly meant for tanks, or vice versa for DPS. The only thing I really don't like about the split, is that certain defensive skills/amps would be stupid good for levelling tank classes.
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May 6, 2014 04:13
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Mount Desert posted:I will say that I am impressed by the functionality provided for add-ons. However, I don't have too much recent experience with more modern MMOs, so it may just be surprising in general. The Wildstar team is basically the same people who made Vanilla WoW, and the addon API appears to be pretty much the same as well, with slight tweaks (like using an XML file instead of a .toc file). That alone puts it pretty far ahead of most of the competition.
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May 6, 2014 04:54
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El Cid posted:Someone should make a UI mod that just tallies up the damage from telegraphed attacks and displays "You suffered x% avoidable damage!" on death. Or just one a healer can download that shows it for your whole group after a wipe. I say this as a healer who hated the beginning of WoWs Cataclysm heroics and does not like being blamed for people standing in fire. Not that that would stop DPS from saying "Just heal through it so I don't have to mess up my rotation, scrub" Cataclysm was the first time I ever did endgame content in Warcraft, and it was the most miserable thing as a healer who actually knew how to play the game. Heroic 5-mans required people to actually pay some degree of attention to boss mechanics in order to not die horribly, and the majority of the time, LFG randoms just stood there doing nothing while spamming two attacks or somehow kited literally all the trash in the dungeon into your group. They clearly learned their lesson from that since all the LFG 5-mans since then only require maybe one or two people in the group to pay attention to the mechanics. But holy hell I hope whatever Wildstar's equivalent of 5-mans aren't Cataclysm launch level of frustrating.
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May 6, 2014 04:56
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Just doing adventures from a healer and tank perspective was the normal mmo stuff. DPS rolling on my heal gear, people running into extra mobs. Some dps trying to run from group and solo objectives. I don't plan on pugging poo poo in this game, especially as a tank (who always seems to take the blame for bad groups).
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May 6, 2014 05:12
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miscellaneous14 posted:They clearly learned their lesson from that since all the LFG 5-mans since then only require maybe one or two people in the group to pay attention to the mechanics. But holy hell I hope whatever Wildstar's equivalent of 5-mans aren't Cataclysm launch level of frustrating.  Some veteran dungeon bosses can be done with idiot pubs in your group, but most others: A) Have a mechanic where one person loving up potentially hurts the team (There's a boss that shoots slow projectiles at everyone, and if they hit, they spawn adds the tank needs to pick up. Also you hurt/snare teammates too close to you while this is going on.) B) Have sources of damage that will straight up kill you if you're not paying attention. (There's a boss in SSM that shoots waves of fire across the room. You will absolutely not survive walking through them) C) Have a mechanic where losing a person really loving hurts Veteran Adventures are pretty easy though, and I think also give the same loot tier. Deki fucked around with this message at 05:14 on May 6, 2014 |
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May 6, 2014 05:12
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Maybe it's just because I've played way too much League of Legends, but I don't see that as such a dramatic issue. Annoying, yes, but sometimes failures happen, and the only thing to do is learn how you personally can improve and then move on. Ultimately, it's just part of the experience of playing with pugs. On a supposed brighter side of things, if the beginning of the end-game content is really so hard, then wouldn't that theoretically improve the quality down the road, as less of the awful pugs slip through the beginning portions? Though, let's face it, ideally we'll all find some amazing guild that fits our specific life schedules and can happily play through the game as we desire. 
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May 6, 2014 05:44
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El Cid posted:Someone should make a UI mod that just tallies up the damage from telegraphed attacks and displays "You suffered x% avoidable damage!" on death. Or just one a healer can download that shows it for your whole group after a wipe. I say this as a healer who hated the beginning of WoWs Cataclysm heroics and does not like being blamed for people standing in fire. Not that that would stop DPS from saying "Just heal through it so I don't have to mess up my rotation, scrub" I think there was a mod for WoW that announced people loving up raid mechanics to the raid/guild chat.
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May 6, 2014 06:03
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Mount Desert posted:You might want to check out The Visitor add-on Why. Isn't. This. In. The. Game.
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May 6, 2014 06:38
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Belgian Waffle posted:Nah, this is definitely working as intended. Ability slots are a commodity of sorts so they're not going to want people to essentially get a "free" ability by unbinding your basic attack for something else. I don't agree with it, but locking away ability slots behind level ups was an explicit design decision they made and this falls in line with that. If it's working as intended I guess I just think it's dumb that changing the power in the '1' slot makes one of your mouse buttons basically worthless. Who designs an UI like that? Let us rebind mouse buttons! The only choices being 'Have RMB trigger the basic level 1 Builder' or, once you switch, 'have RMB feebly make you do 1 tick of weapon damage' is a bit restrictive even if we're granting that the player base has way more time to write UI functions into add-ons. This is basic key config poo poo. Psykmoe fucked around with this message at 07:35 on May 6, 2014 |
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May 6, 2014 07:24
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Belgian Waffle posted:Nah, this is definitely working as intended. Ability slots are a commodity of sorts so they're not going to want people to essentially get a "free" ability by unbinding your basic attack for something else. I don't agree with it, but locking away ability slots behind level ups was an explicit design decision they made and this falls in line with that. So why not let people bind ability slots to mouse buttons? Rhymenoserous posted:I'd say there's a happy medium. On one hand you have the Trinity, on the other you have that clusterfuck of a mess that GW2 had where the name of the game was to dump down as much damage as you could in order to avoid the gradual whittling away of your health. That's not how GW2 combat works :| There's a lot of stuff that people can do in combat, one of the best builds for rangers is based around supporting the group with great auras for example. Pure healers don't exist, but there are good support builds that combine buffs, debuffs, condition removal and a constant stream of small heals to make their group very durable. Exclusively clinging to ALL GLASS CANNON DUMP MAX DAMAGE strats is just something that stupid people do because speedrunning a supereasy dungeon and zerging down champ mobs in the overworld to get fast gold is apparently the only way to play the game for them :V RottenK fucked around with this message at 08:04 on May 6, 2014 |
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May 6, 2014 08:01
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Asimo posted:Granted I still think the shaman/warpriest way of doing things from WAR was a good way of handling this sort of problem, where you could target an ally and an enemy and abilities would automatically have an appropriate effect on one or both targets. I'm kind of amazed more games haven't ripped that off, but I guess it was the only good piece of design from WAR so I can understand it being ignored. EQ2 had it far before WAR and when I moved to try out WoW from EQ2 I was pretty shocked that it wasn't in it. To me it's a normal part of MMOG design and it's so strange when it's not in there.
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May 6, 2014 12:58
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Psykmoe posted:If it's working as intended I guess I just think it's dumb that changing the power in the '1' slot makes one of your mouse buttons basically worthless. Who designs an UI like that? Let us rebind mouse buttons! RottenK posted:So why not let people bind ability slots to mouse buttons?
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May 6, 2014 13:08
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RottenK posted:That's not how GW2 combat works :| I completely agree. The idea that GW2 combat is a chaotic mess of pushing out as much DPS as fast as possible in order to survive is how really bad players choose to play. The truth is that GW2 is the "happy medium" that a lot of players talk about wanting. The problem is that the players always seem to default to whatever is the most mind numbing strategy possible in order to win. That choice results in limiting what these players feel is content worth completing on a regular basis. The obvious response to that problem is to try and design most encounters where such a strategy results in losing which is a fine theory and one that I would personally enjoy, but unfortunately most attempts that MMOs have made thus far to do that result in a ton of whining and a lot less participation in that content. Thus, the real problem becomes more apparent. That is, no developer has figured out yet how to introduce challenging content that a very large portion of the player base is willing to participate in all while setting the bar really high for a solid action combat experience that does not result in defaulting to some lovely traditional trinity. This is especially true when it comes to open world combat encounters. Whoever solves this problem will have struck gold in the MMO world.
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May 6, 2014 14:01
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The reason why people stick to all damage strats in GW2 is because encounter design permit it and because the monsters are sacks of HP. Given that a well played character doesn't need a whole lot of support from other classes, and because the monsters have so much health to begin with, then naturally people gravitate toward this type of gameplay. In a more structured game people aren't allowed to do this since everyone depends on one another to finish the encounter. But thats not to say that you cant have games without traditional roles and still have better encounter design simply because the roles that exist are force multipliers instead of just the sum of the parts. B&S is a good example of a game with atypical roles (Tank, DPS, Support, Control) that works well because all them act as force multipliers. You dont need to have a party composed of all the roles to finish the content, but why wouldn't you since having some of each greatly increases your parties effectiveness.
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May 6, 2014 14:39
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Oh I know it is possible to do and I also think that there are multiple ways to achieve success. I also very much agree with your point about encounter design and I would extend it to AI in general. A lot of MMOs are pushing action combat, but without solid encounter design and smarter AI the combat experience will never come close to reaching max potential. The bottom line is that no MMO has really done it right yet when it comes to that aspect of their game. IMO, what would come close is some sort of hybrid between TERA and GW2 but even a concept like that could probably be improved upon.
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May 6, 2014 15:00
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Xavier434 posted:I completely agree. The idea that GW2 combat is a chaotic mess of pushing out as much DPS as fast as possible in order to survive is how really bad players choose to play. The truth is that GW2 is the "happy medium" that a lot of players talk about wanting. The problem is that the players always seem to default to whatever is the most mind numbing strategy possible in order to win. That choice results in limiting what these players feel is content worth completing on a regular basis. The obvious response to that problem is to try and design most encounters where such a strategy results in losing which is a fine theory and one that I would personally enjoy, but unfortunately most attempts that MMOs have made thus far to do that result in a ton of whining and a lot less participation in that content. Tell me more about how bad players choose to be efficient and boring  When you're looking at games as long and grindy as MMOs, even the most interesting combat isn't going to let you skip through the leveling grind. What GW2 should've gotten rid of was leveling. Having to grind to see the personal story and new areas is a mess. Just let people play what they want to play.
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May 6, 2014 15:14
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Tezzeract posted:Tell me more about how bad players choose to be efficient and boring It's not even efficient though because the margin of error is higher than other strategies which do more than pure brute force. It just happens to be that it works sometimes and takes the least effort when it does. As far as leveling goes, I like it and never felt as if I was grinding EXP at all. I was just playing through the content without even thinking about my level and gained far more EXP than I needed in order to hit level cap and access plenty of new zones along the way. I can see how that would be a problem if all that one did is go from one personal story quest to another back to back during most of their play time, but doing that also means you are missing out on a huge amount of content that the game makes available. There comes a point in an MMO where if the player's intent is to skip the majority of what the game offers because they do not like it then maybe that player should consider whether or not their time would be better spent playing something that they find more enjoyable.
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May 6, 2014 15:27
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Open Beta starts in 2 days. http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/05/06/wildstars-open-beta-starts-may-8/ May 8th to the 18th.
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May 6, 2014 15:31
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Also EU servers and German/French client localization are available for open beta.
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May 6, 2014 15:39
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Cao Ni Ma posted:The reason why people stick to all damage strats in GW2 is because encounter design permit it and because the monsters are sacks of HP. Given that a well played character doesn't need a whole lot of support from other classes, and because the monsters have so much health to begin with, then naturally people gravitate toward this type of gameplay. Which is why I'm interested in seeing where Wildstar events out. The trash in the dungeons are WoW tank and spanks with GW2 level HP bloat. The bosses are more interesting but I haven't seen any mechanics yet that weren't in WoW, just with the added damage zone components. That does somehow make the fights Mir fun though as your frantically running around to find safe spots.
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May 6, 2014 15:41
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Xavier434 posted:It's not even efficient though because the margin of error is higher than other strategies which do more than pure brute force. It just happens to be that it works sometimes and takes the least effort when it does. The issue is everyone praises GW2 and I just don't get it. I've tried playing it a bunch of times and the PVE experience is so aimless. I guess it solved "problems" that I found to be features in games like the trinity, instanced dungeons, overgearing content, and lore. I'm glad it found an audience, but I can't stand playing for more than an hour without being bored.
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May 6, 2014 15:52
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Tezzeract posted:The issue is everyone praises GW2 and I just don't get it. I've tried playing it a bunch of times and the PVE experience is so aimless. I guess it solved "problems" that I found to be features in games like the trinity, instanced dungeons, overgearing content, and lore. The only thing that I can say to that as well as any other MMO which is not a traditional theme park is that there is a lot of fun out there. You just have to spend a little more time and have a little more patience when it comes to finding it. Exploration is supposed to be a cornerstone of the fun. If one does not enjoy that and is bored despite their effort to try then I cannot blame them for quitting. If you are not having fun then there is no point, but just know that how one approaches any game can make a world of difference.
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May 6, 2014 16:05
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I'm gonna guess people aren't enamored of GW2 dungeons because they had the same experience with them as I did: launch ascalon catacombs. Every boss is a clusterfuck of red poo poo on the ground and sacks of health for both bosses and trash. The only fun part of the instance was the traps, then you found out when you inevitably wiped that you had to run through all the traps again. You can obviously design dungeons that work for non-trinity games, but GW2 had really lovely dungeons for a really long time. It's important to remember that.
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May 6, 2014 16:28
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Iron Tusk posted:Open Beta starts in 2 days. Goddammit they keep doing stuff like this while I'm traveling 
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May 6, 2014 16:30
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I've learned so many things about Guild Wars 2 from this specific thread than I ever really cared about. Here's something totally irrelevant to the last ten posts: I think there are two reasons extremely difficult end-game content and 40-man raids actually have a chance of working in WildStar. The first reason is that there are a lot of people (I'm one!) that never got to experience vanilla WoW, or even WoW in general, and WildStar offers a chance to get in on a core similar experience from the gates, as opposed to jumping into a decade-old MMO with some fifty expansion packs that apparently just lets you skip to the maximum level or close to it anyway, as I've heard from this thread. The second reason is that, sure, something like 70+% of players won't ever see or try to see that content in-game, but with streaming becoming such a big part of gaming, these players will still have a chance to see the content and experience it for exactly as much as they care to without actively burning themselves over it.
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May 6, 2014 16:36
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a cat on an apple posted:I've learned so many things about Guild Wars 2 from this specific thread than I ever really cared about. I think people are looking to much into the 40 man. The beginning raids are 20 man and I don't think people get that. The 40 man is going to be on the mind of serious progression raiders and Carbine already said if it doesn't work out they will address the issue.
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May 6, 2014 18:10
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I hope when they eventually cave and remove the attunement process they keep the questline and achievement in, I might only raid once out twice before I remember why I hate it but it seems like the kind of epic quest I love working towards.
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May 6, 2014 18:29
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How is tanking in this game? Do you have to spend your entire time fighting for threat against DPS types, or do the "Additional Threat" moves give you enough of a lead that you can just do your regular rotation without worrying that DPS A isn't targeting the same thing as you?
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May 6, 2014 18:50
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Nephrite posted:How is tanking in this game? Do you have to spend your entire time fighting for threat against DPS types, or do the "Additional Threat" moves give you enough of a lead that you can just do your regular rotation without worrying that DPS A isn't targeting the same thing as you? I've heard Warriors are having issues with threat compared to Stalker and Engineer. In terms of dungeons like Stormtalon's Lair and Kel'Voreth, main targets weren't an issue for any of the groups I was in (I was healing). The pulls were 3 mobs, at most (unless you really hosed up and pulled 2 packs), and everyone usually attacked whatever the tank was focusing at the time. When I was DPS spec I would pull from a tank here and there but not often enough to worry about threat management. Can't speak for higher level dungeons unfortunately since my max level is 24.
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May 6, 2014 20:12
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Nephrite posted:How is tanking in this game? Do you have to spend your entire time fighting for threat against DPS types, or do the "Additional Threat" moves give you enough of a lead that you can just do your regular rotation without worrying that DPS A isn't targeting the same thing as you? Warrior threat generation is seriously problematic because they have no way to just hit something for a large amount of threat without spending a few attacks building up. Even after that competent dps can still pull agro from them if they aren't paying attention (stalker and engineer tanks don't have threat problems) It's kind of like making everyone wait for sunders back when that was a thing.
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May 6, 2014 20:17
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