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Solice Kirsk posted:Ah, ok. It is a supremely lovely thing to do. But look on the bright side, maybe now local governments will rush in and shut places like this down permanently to avoid being the next one. It's morbid but I don't think the death toll was high enough. Honestly, the Fire Marshall should be fired for his inaction, the owner should be in jail as an example and the city should hire more inspectors. Where I live this poo poo is no joke, they shut down a collective like that once and everyone was to leave immediately. The system in Oakland is clearly broken, and lovely idiots like the owner are why the systems were built to begin with. All around depressingly preventable.
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Dec 5, 2016 05:02
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MrFellow posted:I live in Oakland, and the issue of "residential"/converted warehouses gets kind of complicated. 
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Dec 5, 2016 05:06
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Triangle Shirtwaist Factory Larp is bad art.
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Dec 5, 2016 05:08
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Solice Kirsk posted:Ah, ok. It is a supremely lovely thing to do. But look on the bright side, maybe now local governments will rush in and shut places like this down permanently to avoid being the next one. Trump hates fire marshals, so...
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Dec 5, 2016 05:46
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It's weird because in my city people pay big premiums to live in lovely converted factories and warehouses.
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Dec 5, 2016 05:50
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Regarding the Ghost Ship: as somebody who is ostensibly an artist-turned-lawyer, my two cents is that there comes a day in many a young person's life, when that young person realizes that many hippy-dippy artists with access to cool drugs are actually self-centered, unempathetic morons who have literally nothing interesting to say. The dude who ran the Ghost Ship had skated pretty hard on a wave of horseshit about artists' communes and yoga and god knows what else: the reality is that he was actually just a selfish dickhead who made money by renting out a tinderbox to partygoers, and then when those partygoers died due to his own criminal negligence, he bemoaned the loss of his tinderbox. He is lower scum than the shittiest of lovely middle managers at the most downmarket of KFC franchises: at least you can get fried chicken out of those guys.
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Dec 5, 2016 07:52
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There comes a junction in every artist's life where they either realize you can still make great art with a functional shower and real toilet, or start pissing on the floor like opossums in search of a false sense of authenticity.
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Dec 5, 2016 08:28
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BattleMaster posted:It's weird because in my city people pay big premiums to live in lovely converted factories and warehouses. Yeah, because it costs actual money to make sure they are structurally sound, have fire suppression and adequate emergency exits.
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Dec 5, 2016 12:55
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Arsenic Lupin posted:I'm expecting that site to go down very soon, unless the owner is dead. I'm guessing some people will wish the owner was dead when he's pulling poo poo like this: Cugel the Clever posted:The owner's Facebook post bemoaning the loss of his 'awesome' place while the bodies were still smoldering.
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Dec 5, 2016 13:16
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Those pictures are a lawyer's dream.
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It's people like that that keep me in the "some people need a solid rear end kicking" group.
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Dec 5, 2016 15:20
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The Sausages posted:I'm guessing some people will wish the owner was dead when he's pulling poo poo like this: And like this: http://leakyou.com/video-plenty-of-fire/ Looks like he was deliberately setting out to recreate the Station fire.
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Dec 5, 2016 15:32
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Grumbletron 4000 posted:As a person who once experienced a weekend in county jail and also hates hot weather I think I'd rather be dead than spend a minute in that tent jail. My roommate and I just had a conversation about sheriff Joe recently. I remarked that I'd like to see him locked up in that tent hell he created because everything I've ever read about the man leads me to believe that he's a corrupt, sadistic sack of poo poo. I was baffled how someone like that could stay sheriff for so long g. My roommate is an Arizona native who explained that people there love him. Something to do with the state of mind in that part of the country loves the idea of the rootin' tootin' takes no poo poo hang em all law man. I still say gently caress him. I hope he dies in the hell that he created. I'm sure Trump will add him to his Administration any day now.
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Dec 5, 2016 15:35
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Breakfast Feud posted:It's morbid but I don't think the death toll was high enough. Honestly, the Fire Marshall should be fired for his inaction, the owner should be in jail as an example and the city should hire more inspectors. Where I live this poo poo is no joke, they shut down a collective like that once and everyone was to leave immediately. The system in Oakland is clearly broken, and lovely idiots like the owner are why the systems were built to begin with. All around depressingly preventable. Nah this fire is really big news nationally. They're definitely going to have to act on it so the media doesn't pick Oakland's governments bones clean
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Dec 5, 2016 18:28
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Aesop Poprock posted:Nah this fire is really big news nationally. They're definitely going to have to act on it so the media doesn't pick Oakland's governments bones clean Of course said picking will ignore the root causes of why people have to live like this.
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Dec 5, 2016 18:43
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Glazier posted:Of course said picking will ignore the root causes of why people have to live like this. Well yeah obviously. Growing property rates and homelessness in general aren't very sexy topics
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Dec 5, 2016 18:46
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flosofl posted:Yeah, because it costs actual money to make sure they are structurally sound, have fire suppression and adequate emergency exits.
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Dec 5, 2016 18:48
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Glazier posted:Of course said picking will ignore the root causes of why people have to live like this. I don't thinking anyone /has/ to live the bohemian life style the way these people were.
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Dec 5, 2016 19:15
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Glazier posted:Of course said picking will ignore the root causes of why people have to live like this. Literally nobody forced this guy's hand to become an illegal sublessor who stuffs his space with the most flammable poo poo on the planet, accessible only by a stairwell made of irregular-sized chunks of kindling, the second floor/kiln secured with bolted-down windows He's a dickhead and he has no one to blame but himself
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Dec 5, 2016 19:28
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Solice Kirsk posted:It's people like that that keep me in the "some people need a solid rear end kicking" group. TheWeepingHorse posted:Literally nobody forced this guy's hand to become an illegal sublessor who stuffs his space with the most flammable poo poo on the planet, accessible only by a stairwell made of irregular-sized chunks of kindling, the second floor/kiln secured with bolted-down windows Pretty sure people were talking about the artists who LIVED in this space, not the rear end in a top hat who rented it to them.
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Dec 5, 2016 22:04
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As tragic as it can sometimes end up, "is this place a fire hazard?" is often the first issue to be ignored when someone is in need of housing and there are limited options.
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Dec 5, 2016 22:11
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TheWeepingHorse posted:Literally nobody forced this guy's hand to become an illegal sublessor who stuffs his space with the most flammable poo poo on the planet, accessible only by a stairwell made of irregular-sized chunks of kindling, the second floor/kiln secured with bolted-down windows Oh I'm not defending the owner by any means, I'm talking about the people who either have to live in illegal apartments or the street. Again that's not everyone who was there but pretending the housing market in the Bay Area doesn't make places like this attractive to may people is intellectually dishonest.
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Dec 5, 2016 22:16
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Basebf555 posted:As tragic as it can sometimes end up, "is this place a fire hazard?" is often the first issue to be ignored when someone is in need of housing and there are limited options. Yes, but the owner had other options and didn't exercise them. The upside of potentially hazardous squats is that you're at least not paying to be endangered. This place was less safe than many squats I've seen and yet the owner was charging $750 a month. Which I certainly understand is well below market rate, but he didn't provide $750 a month worth of safety. We need so much more affordable housing, but I'm not holding my breath. AlbieQuirky has a new favorite as of 02:37 on Dec 6, 2016 |
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Dec 6, 2016 02:33
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I think a lot of it stems from toothless enforcement. The Fire Department knew it was a hazard years prior but did they evict everyone and fine him? Doesn't look like it. It comes to a point where the city has to decide, would we rather have people on the street or do we want a building full of propane gas lines and pallet wood? We have a building in my city that's technically a studio space for artists but I know people who live there full time. It manages to stay under the radar because it's set up and maintained in a way that assumes the building will at some point be at full capacity with people there at any point in the day. It's got an up to date fire system, adequate bathrooms and even heat! All that and no residency permits.
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Dec 6, 2016 03:26
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AlbieQuirky posted:the owner was charging $750 a month Wait, seriously? Is Oaklands property market that expensive that paying $750 a month to live in essentially a squat is seen as a good deal? gently caress, I thought the people lived there for free or just minimal 'pay the utilities' prices. The owner needs to be charged because he had rental income coming in but did gently caress all to be a responsible landlord to those people.
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Dec 6, 2016 03:28
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Helith posted:Wait, seriously? Is Oaklands property market that expensive that paying $750 a month to live in essentially a squat is seen as a good deal? My dude, scammers wouldn't even list a studio in Oakland for under 1200 because it'd be too obvious.
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Dec 6, 2016 03:41
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The last time I met the person I knew who died in that fire, she said that Oakland had gotten too expensive for artists like her, and she was planning to move to Detroit.
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Dec 6, 2016 04:38
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http://www.eastbaytimes.com/2016/12/04/vibrant-arts-scene-put-oakland-on-the-map-but-fire-spreads-fear-of-code-crackdown/quote:“People are getting worried (the fire) is gonna be used against us,” said Katelyn Charvoz, of West Oakland. The 25-year-old said she’s been involved in the music/party scene since she was about 15. “The city’s gonna paint us as some ugly, crusty, punk kids that are up to no good. If they buy up all the warehouses on every street and kick everyone out, it will just hurt the arts community here.” Pretty sure that in a major earthquake zone a requirement for working sprinkler system and working staircases in buildings people are going to inhabit is not a tool of oppression.
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Dec 6, 2016 04:57
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I feel like dying in fire hurts artists but that's just me
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Dec 6, 2016 05:01
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Doc Hawkins posted:The last time I met the person I knew who died in that fire, she said that Oakland had gotten too expensive for artists like her, and she was planning to move to Detroit. She lucked out then.
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Dec 6, 2016 05:07
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Jesus $750 for that pit? I'm paying $1700 for a 2BR in Berkeley and could have rented a studio for about $700 that actually is up to code.
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Dec 6, 2016 05:08
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People wouldn't live in places like that if they had a decent place they could afford to live. You kick them out of there, where are they gonna go?
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Dec 6, 2016 05:09
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Imagined posted:People wouldn't live in places like that if they had a decent place they could afford to live. You kick them out of there, where are they gonna go? Most underpasses don't burn down I guess
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Dec 6, 2016 05:14
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Imagined posted:People wouldn't live in places like that if they had a decent place they could afford to live. You kick them out of there, where are they gonna go? There are plenty of cities that aren't as expensive as the Bay. $750 for one month in that shithole is enough for a bus ticket somewhere where the cheap places are still safe to live in.
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Dec 6, 2016 05:24
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Phanatic posted:There are plenty of cities that aren't as expensive as the Bay. $750 for one month in that shithole is enough for a bus ticket somewhere where the cheap places are still safe to live in.
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Dec 6, 2016 06:03
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No one put a gun to the head of the owner and forced him to rent the place out/host raves. He took their money and now people are dead. He should answer for that.
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Dec 6, 2016 06:24
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transgendered artists have absolutely no choice but to pay the national median rent to live in an extremely flammable pallet-shack inside of a derelict building like a bunch of postapocalyptic vagrants welcome to trump's america
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Dec 6, 2016 06:27
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chernobyl kinsman posted:transgendered artists have absolutely no choice but to pay the national median rent to live in an extremely flammable pallet-shack inside of a derelict building like a bunch of postapocalyptic vagrants
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Dec 6, 2016 06:29
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pretending like your options are 'live in Oakland' or 'live in Podunk, USA, where they will beat you to death for liking dick' is pretty entitled m8 you can get a studio in colorado springs for $50/mo less than one of those deathshacks. weed's legal there too. e: the studio apartment includes smoke detectors
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Dec 6, 2016 06:34
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Colorado Springs, the Western center of the Evangelical Christian movement? I'm betting somebody with the bone structure of a biological male and the clothing of a female is going to be wildly popular there. A lot of people died. Most of them, judging by the obits so far, weren't residents of this building. They were musicians, and artists, and people who'd gone there for a party. Explaining how you would have made different choices that meant you wouldn't have died .... well, congratulations. You're not dead. They are. Explaining why it's all their fault is a coward's way of defending themselves against the fear of death. Time and chance come to us all.
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Dec 6, 2016 06:42
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roll it back my dude. no one's blaming the dead, but self-righteously touting that your options are live inside of a burning garbage pit in oakland california or be lynched in the heart of the deep south is incredibly dumb, which is the part of my post that you keep ignoring. at $750 a month it isn't even particularly cheap by national studio standards; you can live in a real city that doesn't hate gays (and has artists!) or whatever for that much money per month. although since you asked, someone with the bone structure of a male and the clothing of a female won the democratic congressional primary for CS and then pulled in a third of the vote in the general election, so
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Dec 6, 2016 06:49
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