Heroes of the Storm 2.0: Pounded in the butt by my own team comp

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Heroes of the Storm 2.0: Pounded in the butt by my own team comp

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BrianBoitano: Nov 15, 2006; this is fine

https://clips.twitch.tv/GleamingUnsightlyCurryArgieB8

:byodame:

it's not mobility creep!

# ? Oct 10, 2017 13:20

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 02:30

Kith: Sep 17, 2009; You never learn anything
by doing it right.

BrianBoitano posted:

Alt-click enemy portraits on the PTR

our prayers have been answered

# ? Oct 10, 2017 13:34

Spudd: Nov 27, 2007; Protect children from "Safe Schools" social engineering. Shame!

BrianBoitano posted:

https://clips.twitch.tv/GleamingUnsightlyCurryArgieB8

it's not mobility creep!

Which talent does that? Because gently caress that talent.

# ? Oct 10, 2017 14:09

Trade Chat Troll: Jan 22, 2010

BrianBoitano posted:

Alt-click enemy portraits on the PTR

Does it only do that if they aren't visible on the map?

# ? Oct 10, 2017 14:16

Kitfox88: Aug 21, 2007; Anybody lose their glasses?

Olaf The Stout posted:

Bikini stiches rules though. His autoattack noise is a hollow plastic thunk from his bucket, which accurately reflects his autoattack damage. When he dies all his little beach toys have their own physics and scatter to the winds. Lastly, when searching for matches, tell your friends that he has a dead skeleton dog hanging off the back off his pool floaty, and when they rotate stiches to see, call attention to the nastiest rear end in the nexus directly behind that dead dog and make all your friends sad.

looking at stitches reminds me of myself irl and i play videogames to indulge in escapist fantasy okay

also loving finally mia ping

# ? Oct 10, 2017 14:21

BrianBoitano: Nov 15, 2006; this is fine

Spudd posted:

Which talent does that? Because gently caress that talent.

W.T. Fits posted:

Junkrat Talents

Level 13

Ripper Air (W)
Junkrat is knocked back 50% farther by Concussion Mine. Additionally, Concussion Mine's cooldown is reduced by 12 seconds if only Junkrat is hit.

Baseline is 16 seconds, so it's a 4 second cooldown in those situations. Competes with:

quote:

Bogged Down (W)
Enemies launched by Concussion Mine are Slowed by 60% for 2 seconds upon landing.

Chattering Teeth (E)
Steel Traps will slowly chase nearby enemy Heroes.

funny teeth sound, you were on the wrong talent tier

# ? Oct 10, 2017 14:36

Edmond Dantes: Sep 12, 2007; Reactor: Online
Sensors: Online
Weapons: Online

ALL SYSTEMS NOMINAL

AccountingNightmare posted:

High ping woes.

Thanks; I'll see about giving it a shot.

# ? Oct 10, 2017 14:43

Disargeria: May 6, 2010; All Good Things are Wild and Free!

I expect it to not get touched until it goes live, then gets nerfed the next week. "We didn't think it was that good."

Or they'll nerf his health, reduce his damage and buff a competing talent like.... the movement speed of the Chattering trap, so Junkrat languishes in purgatory where he's too squishy and ineffective to do any real damage/impact in but still has a stupid insane mobility talent. So you're not so much upset that he's on the enemy team as you are annoyed that you have to deal with him.

And then they pick that drat Chattering talent with the buffed move speed that you didn't expect and now he's just making your life miserable in other ways.

# ? Oct 10, 2017 14:45

Eggplant Squire: Aug 14, 2003

Last night had my new favorite thing happen when a Diablo took the fire breathing ult and blew it on my Tyrande with half health to which I just healed once and with spell armor was able to plink away at him while casually standing in a stream of fire until he died.

# ? Oct 10, 2017 14:57

Minorkos: Feb 20, 2010

Disargeria posted:

I expect it to not get touched until it goes live, then gets nerfed the next week. "We didn't think it was that good."

Or they'll nerf his health, reduce his damage and buff a competing talent like.... the movement speed of the Chattering trap, so Junkrat languishes in purgatory where he's too squishy and ineffective to do any real damage/impact in but still has a stupid insane mobility talent. So you're not so much upset that he's on the enemy team as you are annoyed that you have to deal with him.

And then they pick that drat Chattering talent with the buffed move speed that you didn't expect and now he's just making your life miserable in other ways.

Then when Junkrat's winrate has finally dropped to 43%, they'll release a patch where the concussion mine talent gets dumpstered because it was the only talent ever picked for him, and they'll justify it with "we want players to pick other talents". Also no additional changes because they want to see if his winrate goes up with this change

# ? Oct 10, 2017 15:07

Macaluso: Sep 23, 2005; I HATE THAT HEDGEHOG, BROTHER!

when you go flying via Junkrat's mine, he does one of like 4 or 5 poses. He has his lying pose, and he does like a pose that looks like the Pandaren sit emote.

I really wish detonating the mine was the same button as throwing it though. Why is it a totally separate button? It feels really awkward activating the mine with at totally different button

edit: The camera needs to linger on the tire exploding for a second when you detonate it. Right now if you detonate it, the camera instantly goes back to Junkrat as if the tire was destroyed or something. It took a few tries of the tire for me to realize it was doing anything.

Macaluso fucked around with this message at 15:10 on Oct 10, 2017

# ? Oct 10, 2017 15:07

Spudd: Nov 27, 2007; Protect children from "Safe Schools" social engineering. Shame!

BrianBoitano posted:

Baseline is 16 seconds, so it's a 4 second cooldown in those situations. Competes with:

funny teeth sound, you were on the wrong talent tier

Aww man but the chattering teeth is the best thing.

# ? Oct 10, 2017 15:13

Onean: Feb 11, 2010; Maiden in white...
You are not one of us.

Macaluso posted:

I really wish detonating the mine was the same button as throwing it though. Why is it a totally separate button? It feels really awkward activating the mine with at totally different button

It's a different button because the skill goes on cooldown immediately when deployed, rather than waiting until you blow it up.

# ? Oct 10, 2017 15:30

Macaluso: Sep 23, 2005; I HATE THAT HEDGEHOG, BROTHER!

Onean posted:

It's a different button because the skill goes on cooldown immediately when deployed, rather than waiting until you blow it up.

Couldn't they just have a little mini countdown timer on the top right or left of the button? Still feels super awkward to me

edit: Besides that he's super fun and feels very much like playing his FPS counterpart

# ? Oct 10, 2017 15:32

Zwiebel: Feb 19, 2011; Hi!

Not sure why Junkrat doesn't have mana.
It's really arbitrary how they keep treating that core mechanic at this point.

# ? Oct 10, 2017 15:33

Polio Vax Scene: Apr 5, 2009

I wouldn't worry about Junkrat hopping all over your team. He is super fragile and will get punished immediately for being in front of the rest of his team.
If he releases as is, I expect him to be hero league viable, not competitive viable, and a winrate averaging maybe 45% to start.

# ? Oct 10, 2017 15:39

BrianBoitano: Nov 15, 2006; this is fine

Macaluso posted:

Couldn't they just have a little mini countdown timer on the top right or left of the button? Still feels super awkward to me

edit: Besides that he's super fun and feels very much like playing his FPS counterpart

100% of the reason is this: they want you to be able to lay it and detonate it immediately some times, and hold it other times. If they made detonate the same button, people would accidentally detonate it when frantically clicking. They've given some abilities internal cooldowns so you don't accidentally cancel them, but those abilities don't usually need that button for anything else so it's okay.

e: vvv okay, 50% of the reason is immediate detonate, 50% is to place new mine without detonating old one. Good point!

BrianBoitano fucked around with this message at 15:43 on Oct 10, 2017

# ? Oct 10, 2017 15:40

Onean: Feb 11, 2010; Maiden in white...
You are not one of us.

Macaluso posted:

Couldn't they just have a little mini countdown timer on the top right or left of the button? Still feels super awkward to me

edit: Besides that he's super fun and feels very much like playing his FPS counterpart

Then how do you distinguish between placing a mine and blowing it up when the cooldown finishes? It's not a big issue, for sure, but having to hit the button three times to blow up an old mine, place a new one then blow up the new one isn't great because they'd have to add in a half second cooldown to prevent blowing a mine up immediately if you spam the button or even accidentally hit it twice.

It's kind of a pain in the rear end for the designers. It's either clunky by requiring two separate keybinds for one ability or it's clunky through having two separate effects on the same key that could be available at the same moment.

# ? Oct 10, 2017 15:42

Doflamingo: Sep 20, 2006

Zwiebel posted:

Not sure why Junkrat doesn't have mana.
It's really arbitrary how they keep treating that core mechanic at this point.

It would've made more sense if he couldn't AA and instead only had his Q as the primary source of damage. As it stands it's kinda weird, yeah.

# ? Oct 10, 2017 15:46

Dietrich: Sep 11, 2001

Macaluso posted:

Couldn't they just have a little mini countdown timer on the top right or left of the button? Still feels super awkward to me

edit: Besides that he's super fun and feels very much like playing his FPS counterpart

No, because you could deploy another mine without blowing up the first one.

# ? Oct 10, 2017 15:52

PantsBandit: Oct 26, 2007; it is both a monkey and a boombox

Polio Vax Scene posted:

I wouldn't worry about Junkrat hopping all over your team. He is super fragile and will get punished immediately for being in front of the rest of his team.
If he releases as is, I expect him to be hero league viable, not competitive viable, and a winrate averaging maybe 45% to start.

Yeah while that Twitch video was funny, I imagine if the other team had turned around and focused Junkrat when he kept diving it would have gone very differently.

# ? Oct 10, 2017 16:04

No Wave: Sep 18, 2005; HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

My real concern is how much Tracer counters Junkrat and whether this will make her more popular (i hate her)

It's also very untrue to the source where junkrat is the hardest Tracer counter in OW

# ? Oct 10, 2017 16:20

PantsBandit: Oct 26, 2007; it is both a monkey and a boombox

Been playing some Nazeebo because if you can't beat 'em, join 'em, right?

He's absolutely absurd. I've been messing with his zombie wall build for siege damage. Gargantuan + poison ring + uprooted wall and he can solo a keep in around 10 seconds while the other team focuses on an objective.

# ? Oct 10, 2017 16:35

BrianBoitano: Nov 15, 2006; this is fine

Really glad McIntyre is back at his talent overview videos. Something to watch when you're bored and want to see all abilities in action:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNsDS68Teyk

Also kinda funny because he hardly even noticed the Ripper Air mine-jump talent.

# ? Oct 10, 2017 16:43

Gobbeldygook: May 13, 2009; Hates Native American people and tries to justify their genocides.

Put this racist on ignore immediately!

Polio Vax Scene posted:

I wouldn't worry about Junkrat hopping all over your team. He is super fragile and will get punished immediately for being in front of the rest of his team.
If he releases as is, I expect him to be hero league viable, not competitive viable, and a winrate averaging maybe 45% to start.

His real power is going to be Garroshing people with concussion mines.

edit: on the PTR, I saw mines and traps being used almost exclusively like Chromie traps. Maybe 10% of Junkrat players were effectively using concussion mines for escapes or setting up kills.

Gobbeldygook fucked around with this message at 16:48 on Oct 10, 2017

# ? Oct 10, 2017 16:46

BrianBoitano: Nov 15, 2006; this is fine

No Wave posted:

D. Va's move speed is, untalented, 1.05x normal speed assuming you're always boosting.

With the new ability it's 1.38x normal move speed.

(both of these are very conservative estimates given that d va has 0 mount time)

This doubles the effectiveness of the old talent and is more than 1.5x as substantial as Malthael's. I think she'll rotate significantly faster than any non-global character now.

I was bored, so here are Cursed Hollow PTR times to go from top lane to middle lane/bottom-left tribute/bottom lane.

code:

                             T->M   T-B trib   T-B
Normal Hero:
Already mounted              11.5   19         24
Not mounted, z then go       13.5   21         26
D.Va:
Rush-down                    10     17         21
Nitrous                      12     19         25
Pro Moves                    12     18         25
Malthael:
Pale Horse already mounted   10     17         21
Pale Horse, z then go        12     19         23

So the benefit of Rush-down over Hit the Nitrous is 2/2/4 seconds for some common rotations on this large map. The benefit of Pale Horse over more popular talents is 1.5/2/3 seconds. I was off by 0.5 seconds for a short rotation and off by 1 second on a large rotation. Can 1 second make the difference in a teamfight? Maybe. Is it worth it to take this split-push, rotation-friendly talent on D.Va, who has pretty bad waveclear, eschewing the teamfight and waveclear benefits of Hit the Nitrous? No.

# ? Oct 10, 2017 18:19

Elysium: Aug 21, 2003; It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.

How long does it take for post-ult mounted Junkrat?

Actually I'm gonna need to see a table of every hero, so get on that. I imagine Falstad or Dehaka or Abathur would be first of course. For Brightwing I think it would be cheating for your teammate to already be down there, so it would have to be one of the aforementioned heroes + Brightwings channel and time. Vault repeat mount valla? Hammer with the booster cooldown (does 2 boosters overcome a regular hero mounted?). Junkrat with the mine cooldown? Genji? Tracer + 4 blinks?

Maybe Anub range burrows + rewind. Lucio with speed talents and max wallriding. Double wave sylvanas?

Forgot about Morales of course.

Elysium fucked around with this message at 18:36 on Oct 10, 2017

# ? Oct 10, 2017 18:25

BrianBoitano: Nov 15, 2006; this is fine

It's an interesting question, for sure. For top-to-mid, short range rotations you'd probably see Genji, Medivh with increased range portals, and base Junkrat wouldn't be bad.

For longer range, Junkrat's hippity hoppity lvl 13 (Ripper Air) I'm sure makes him #1 aside from true globals. Li-Ming's level 1 teleport talent :v:

would be up there, especially on winding paths like Cursed Hollow but not as much on Warhead Junction or Volskaya Industries.

Also, you forgot strategic Murky, leaving his egg in one lane, walking to a different lane to push and performing Tactical Suicides� to rotate quickly :coolfish:

# ? Oct 10, 2017 18:34

Elysium: Aug 21, 2003; It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.

BrianBoitano posted:

Also, you forgot strategic Murky, leaving his egg in one lane, walking to a different lane to push and performing Tactical Suicides� to rotate quickly

If we're allowing a pre-set thing like Egg, then Alarak can do it instantly with his level 20 teleport right?

# ? Oct 10, 2017 18:38

Orange Crush Rush: May 7, 2009; You don't need thumbs for revenge

Also Gul'dans gate talent

# ? Oct 10, 2017 18:39

BrianBoitano: Nov 15, 2006; this is fine

Elysium posted:

If we're allowing a pre-set thing like Egg, then Alarak can do it instantly with his level 20 teleport right?

If by Alarak you mean Gul'Dan, then yes.

# ? Oct 10, 2017 18:39

Macaluso: Sep 23, 2005; I HATE THAT HEDGEHOG, BROTHER!

I would like one of Junkrat's bouncing animations to be dabbing, thank you in advance Blizzard

# ? Oct 10, 2017 18:42

Polio Vax Scene: Apr 5, 2009

counterpoint: no

# ? Oct 10, 2017 19:46

Macaluso: Sep 23, 2005; I HATE THAT HEDGEHOG, BROTHER!

Polio Vax Scene posted:

counterpoint: no

Countercounterpoint: yes

# ? Oct 10, 2017 19:48

Kurieg: Jul 19, 2012; RIP Lutri: 5/19/20-4/2/20

Junkrat is just the right kind of rear end in a top hat that would think Dabbing is cool, so yeah it fits actually.

# ? Oct 10, 2017 20:13

Eraflure: Oct 12, 2012

BrianBoitano posted:

So the benefit of Rush-down over Hit the Nitrous is 2/2/4 seconds for some common rotations on this large map. The benefit of Pale Horse over more popular talents is 1.5/2/3 seconds. I was off by 0.5 seconds for a short rotation and off by 1 second on a large rotation. Can 1 second make the difference in a teamfight? Maybe. Is it worth it to take this split-push, rotation-friendly talent on D.Va, who has pretty bad waveclear, eschewing the teamfight and waveclear benefits of Hit the Nitrous? No.

Rush down is not just a split-push, rotation-friendly talent. It's also useful if you want to:
1) move faster as a mech between contested points, like braxis, ToD or warhead
2) catch back up with your team right before an engagement if you're lagging behind or just reposition yourself in the front and get your booster back after 2 seconds
3) enable better flanks with bunny hop or the improved knockback at 7
4) chase down people (won't come into play often to be fair)

Second and third point are pretty important, but you can't tell how impactful they'll be by running laps on empty maps.
I think all level 1 dva talents are situationally good now, which is great.

# ? Oct 10, 2017 20:20