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Here's what worries me tho - Lapid's coalition will be fragile, but will it even need to exist long enough for that to matter very much? Granted I'm an outsider, but it seems easy enough for me to imagine the new coalition forming, ousting Bibi, and then a few weeks or months later enough members of Likud who weren't obsessively loyal to Bibi himself simply shrugging it off and joining Lapid's coalition in enough numbers to offset the palestinian party, so now you've got a majority of the government happily (back) aboard the "full genocide now" train.
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Jun 2, 2021 22:15
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Any chance that if Bibi doesn't find a way to disrupt the changeover that the criminal investigation will finally go forward?
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Jun 2, 2021 22:20
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Spiritus Nox posted:I mean he's getting ousted for someone who's on the extreme far right of Israeli politics so don't get too excited regardless, but yeah it appears to be real Well, yeah, there's no getting around the fact that the right has a solid majority in Israeli politics. I wouldn't expect major positive change for the Palestinians or anything. Bibi being out is still important, though, because his own personal skill as a politician was a major factor in maintaining the right's effectiveness and political influence. He isn't the longest-serving prime minister in Israeli history for nothing.
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Jun 2, 2021 22:48
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https://twitter.com/AnshelPfeffer/status/1400200418542723073
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Jun 2, 2021 22:53
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Spiritus Nox posted:Here's what worries me tho - Lapid's coalition will be fragile, but will it even need to exist long enough for that to matter very much? Granted I'm an outsider, but it seems easy enough for me to imagine the new coalition forming, ousting Bibi, and then a few weeks or months later enough members of Likud who weren't obsessively loyal to Bibi himself simply shrugging it off and joining Lapid's coalition in enough numbers to offset the palestinian party, so now you've got a majority of the government happily (back) aboard the "full genocide now" train. An Arab party being part of the government has broken the rule of "no Arabs in coalitions". Having an Arab party as a coalition option is a genie that can't go back in the bottle especially when it was two ultranationalists fighting each other to get them in their coalitions.
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Jun 2, 2021 22:55
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Lemniscate Blue posted:Any chance that if Bibi doesn't find a way to disrupt the changeover that the criminal investigation will finally go forward? I feel like he's probably done for, but just to be safe "watch Bibi start a bigger war". Spiritus Nox posted:I mean he's getting ousted for someone who's on the extreme far right of Israeli politics so don't get too excited regardless, but yeah it appears to be real It's a coalition too and it's made of whole mix bag which means it is more democratic and representative so in theory should be better.
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Jun 3, 2021 05:35
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evilweasel posted:the coalition deal has been signed, it appears the speaker of the parliament (a bibi ally) is going to delay it by up to a week hoping the campaign of threats against members of the coalition will sway a vote or two and sink it yeah about that https://twitter.com/Jerusalem_Post/status/1400320831318855680 The new coalition most likely has a life expectancy of days if not hours; they'll jam through a law forbidding prime ministers from serving while under indictment (which really is grade A rules lawyering that it hasn't happened already - a similar law already exists for cabinet ministers), Likud will name a new leader, and all the right wing parties will immediately bring down the government and form a narrow right wing coalition based on Likud-without-Netanyahu, the haredi parties, and the ultra right, which would comfortably have a majority (in the current Knesset, 65 seats - and Likud would almost certainly pick up seats in new elections)
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Jun 3, 2021 06:47
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A good piece. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jun/03/israeli-apartheid-israel-jewish-supremacy-occupied-territories quote:At the same time, political insights we tried to repress chipped away at the ethos on which we were raised, forcing us to admit that the recognition of Israel as a democracy obscures and conceals key features of its governmental personality – features that have always been there, but have intensified in the last decade. The constant incitement against Israel’s Palestinian citizens, which under Benjamin Netanyahu reached unprecedented levels; the vitiation of their political power through the vilification and delegitimisation of their elected representatives; the deeply ingrained, systemic institutional discrimination; the nation-state law that constitutionally cemented their collective inferiority; and the drift towards Putinist authoritarianism, with its hallmark persecution of government critics. Does that sound like a democracy? Also the new PM sounds just great https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/03/naftali-bennett-israel-far-right-palestinians DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 09:06 on Jun 3, 2021 |
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Jun 3, 2021 09:04
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Lapid must have another objective as the deal to be PM in 2 years time is utterly worthless and everyone knows that. I'm guessing it's just get Netanyahu out at any cost and then work from there. This coalition is obviously going to collapse once Netanyahu is gone but that shared goal is probably enough to glue them together until that happens. Bennet gets to be PM for a few weeks/months while his party only won 7 seats, huge result for him.
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Jun 3, 2021 10:14
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It's entirely possible he's just a dumb rube. People put too much faith in the intellect of politicians.
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Jun 3, 2021 13:05
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Well bibi's out. When do we restart the ethnic cleansing?
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Jun 3, 2021 22:56
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Have we ever stopped?
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Jun 4, 2021 00:22
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Whoever answered my question weeks ago was right, Netenyahu doesn't matter. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
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Jun 4, 2021 04:56
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Meet the new boss, possessing moderately less individual prerogative than the old boss.
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Jun 4, 2021 06:50
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https://twitter.com/Jerusalem_Post/status/1400783829661536263?s=19
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Jun 4, 2021 13:33
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trying to get political opposition assassinated? 12 hours.
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Jun 4, 2021 14:13
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punishedkissinger posted:trying to get political opposition assassinated? 12 hours. Yair was just using his right to self-defense also I'm sorry I'm a jew too but Israel going full-on nazi including different right-wingers trying to kill each other is so darkly funny. Mir velyn besr seyn in Rusynland, the diaspora rules. Never make aliyah. Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 14:33 on Jun 4, 2021 |
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Jun 4, 2021 14:31
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My paternal grandparents got here because things were tough in post war Romania, my maternal grandparents left Poland which requires even less of a background explanation. I can't say that people had or still have no good reason to want a Jewish homeland but there's no justification for what we built here, nor for the corrupt people we elect to lead. 
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Jun 4, 2021 15:15
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Meanwhile in Germany: Jewish photographer is fired from art school for pointing out the reality of apartheid. https://twitter.com/tazgezwitscher/status/1400819642554372107
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Jun 4, 2021 15:29
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Budzilla posted:Isaac Herzog: Israel’s new president is softly spoken veteran of centre-left https://twitter.com/davidsheen/status/1011113332756176896?s=21 lmao
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Jun 4, 2021 16:05
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Mehrunes posted:Whoever answered my question weeks ago was right, Netenyahu doesn't matter. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. I think there's a real possibility the Israeli right might be less functional and less effective without Netanyahu. There are a lot of divided factions among the Israeli right that don't really get along that well, some of them having outright clashing interests. Netanyahu specialized in keeping them all working together and balancing their interests just enough to keep them from turning on each other, while at the same time being able to effectively identify and exploit similar faultlines among his opponents. Considering that right-wing parties dominate the Knesset and Israeli politics in general, there's no chance of there being a PM that doesn't have poo poo politics in the current landscape. The question is whether these PMs are going to be able to push right-wing policies as effectively as Bibi did. With Bibi out, I'm hoping that the right will be plagued with infighting and instability for a while, giving the left a chance to be effective political actors for once while the right-wing parties are all too busy with infighting. All the major conservative figures will be jockeying to assert themselves as the new leader of the right, while at the same time pushing for their own particular party's issues to progress beyond the limits Bibi would typically negotiate for them. Considering that the political strife around Netanyahu has already gotten so bad that the Jewish parties have actually been willing to bring Arabs into a governing coalition, a further period of right-wing infighting could upset some of the basic assumptions Israeli politics are built on.
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Jun 4, 2021 16:08
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By popular demand posted:My paternal grandparents got here because things were tough in post war Romania, my maternal grandparents left Poland which requires even less of a background explanation. I mean I theoretically agree, and I'd really love to go to Jerusalem before I die. But gently caress, the western wall isn't going anywhere, let the muslims have qubbat as shaqra, let the christians pray at their temples too. It loving sucks that Israel ended up like this. We could've just, like, asked the palestinians instead of doing the Nakba
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Jun 4, 2021 16:09
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isnt that the essential problem of an ethnostate being built where other people already live? if you involved the arabs in the government to a meaningful level you dont get to be an ethnostate so you have to gerrymander out the non-jews.
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Jun 4, 2021 16:23
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Palestinians never wanted mass immigration of jews, even in Ottoman times. And in hindsigth they were correct to always have been strictly against it. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 4, 2021 17:58
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:I mean I theoretically agree, and I'd really love to go to Jerusalem before I die. But gently caress, the western wall isn't going anywhere, let the muslims have qubbat as shaqra, let the christians pray at their temples too. It loving sucks that Israel ended up like this. The area around the Western Wall was made into a residential neighborhood in the 12th century, with houses literally across the street from the Western Wall. This made it difficult to use as a large-scale prayer site. It was essentially a random alleyway. It led to regular tensions over the Western Wall, as both the Jewish worshippers and the Islamic residents regarded each others' presence as a significant disturbance, and there were numerous attempts by Zionist groups to remove this inconvenient neighborhood by either trying to buy it up or just asking a friendly government to expropriate the whole place. This was an issue even before WWI, but got much worse after the Balfour Declaration and the rise of British control over Palestine, which substantially increased inter-ethnic tensions there. In the end, the issue continued to cause problems and conflict until 1967, when the Israeli military "solved" the issue...by demolishing the whole neighborhood almost immediately after capturing it during the Six Day War, giving residents just a few hours warning to leave before sending in the bulldozers to create "facts on the ground" that would overcome any hesitancy on the part of more cautious political leaders. More than a hundred houses leveled, just for the sake of making a larger Jewish prayer space. Well, basically what I'm getting at here is that the status quo had become increasingly difficult to maintain well even before 1948, and that goes for the Western Wall as well. The actual state of the space was just not compatible with the increasing importance that Zionist groups in particular were placing on it, and the beginning of British occupation basically put a hard stop on any chance of easily resolving such issues peacefully. Sykes-Picot and the Balfour Declaration set Jewish nationalism against Arab nationalism in a way that made mutual cooperation basically impossible.
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Jun 4, 2021 20:01
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And remember that, during the British Mandate period, there were literally full-on Zionist terrorist groups that bombed civilian targets and extrajudicially executed people, including British officers. Menachem Begin, later PM of Israel, led one such group. The history does not reflect the view that poor, plucky little Israel has only ever wanted to live in peace with its neighbours.
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Jun 4, 2021 20:08
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Actually the Ottomans were fine with Jewish migration until the advent of modern Zionism and its consequent emphasis of nationalism. The Ottoman Empire was one of the few havens for Jews during the Inquisition.
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Jun 4, 2021 20:13
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Lum_ posted:Actually the Ottomans were fine with Jewish migration until the advent of modern Zionism and its consequent emphasis of nationalism. The Ottoman Empire was one of the few havens for Jews during the Inquisition. Because absolutely nothing changed between 1492 and the 20th century except the advent of modern Zionism.
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Jun 4, 2021 20:15
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i mean it was cool of the ottomans to take jewish refugees after their expulsion from spain but yeah let's not pretend they were super nice or something
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Jun 4, 2021 20:27
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Xander77 posted:The Ottoman empire, famously a multicultural place welcoming of minorities in (checks notes) 1914. Close! Actually, 1908, when the Young Turks took over. And no, they weren't "super nice" but given that the alternative were the weekly Russian pogroms and Europe arguing whether or not Jews could be citizens... it was fairly enlightened in comparison.
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Jun 4, 2021 20:28
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Lum_ posted:Close! Actually, 1908, when the Young Turks took over. It starts with "A" and end with "rmenian Genocide". Among other things. Also, "weekly Russian pogroms" coincided with \ were the cause of modern Zionism, so you're outright contradicting yourself.
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Jun 4, 2021 20:32
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The Pale of Settlement predates Zionism by about a century, but I'm not going to argue for Erdogan re-establishing the Vilayet of Palestine or anything, just noting that opposition to Jewish migration in the region was not eternal. (also my earlier snark may have been unclear - the Young Turks were hypernationalists who were responsible for the Armenian genocide, the attempted depopulation of Jews in Palestine during WW1, and much else. They were not particulary "super nice". Prior to that the Ottomans were fine with anyone as long as they paid their taxes/bribes.) Lum_ fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Jun 4, 2021 |
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Jun 4, 2021 20:38
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PT6A posted:Menachem Begin, later PM of Israel, led one such group. The organization one descendant of which is the modern day Likud party: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun Yitzhak Shamir, who joined Mossad, and was also a PM of Israel at one point headed up this wonderful group of people: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(militant_group) It should be said that having some sort of paramilitary force was not entirely unreasonable since Jewish communities were being attacked and the authorities did not always give a gently caress. In a similar way that paramilitary groups forming to defend Palestinian communities are not unreasonable when they are exposed to violence and the authorities don't give a gently caress about them. Like in other cases though terrorist actions and the aim you wish to achieve via these actions are indeed often dogshit.
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Jun 4, 2021 21:37
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Lum_ posted:The Pale of Settlement predates Zionism by about a century, but I'm not going to argue for Erdogan re-establishing the Vilayet of Palestine or anything, just noting that opposition to Jewish migration in the region was not eternal.
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Jun 4, 2021 22:13
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https://twitter.com/JalalAK_jojo/status/1400850634442690572?s=20 They are unrestrained assholes in Israel. Out of control and we continue to pour money into the coffers of these security force beasts and the pieces of poo poo militia guys not in uniform but joining in the hate with a rifle while all of these Palestinians are unarmed.
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Jun 5, 2021 21:03
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Israel is simply defending it's right to be an apartheid state
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Jun 5, 2021 21:24
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Israel's "rubber bullets" are the ones that are actual bullets with a thin rubber coating, right? And not the baseball-type ones (which also are not designed to be shot at peope) the US police use?
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Jun 5, 2021 21:28
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:Israel's "rubber bullets" are the ones that are actual bullets with a thin rubber coating, right? And not the baseball-type ones (which also are not designed to be shot at peope) the US police use? Elysiume fucked around with this message at 09:36 on Jun 7, 2021 |
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Jun 7, 2021 09:31
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Whatever they use, the important thing is to aim at the ground directly in front of the child you're targeting, so the bullet ricochets into them and the damage is more severe
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Jun 7, 2021 09:41
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https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/06/netanyahu-says-israeli-coalition-is-result-of-election-fraud Bibi going full Trump 
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Jun 7, 2021 12:33
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