[Asia/Oceania] Yellen says she hopes China wont mount retaliation against any steps Washington takes

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Asia/Oceania] Yellen says she hopes China wont mount retaliation against any steps Washington takes

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(Thread IKs: fart simpson)

Orange Devil: Oct 1, 2010; Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Follow Niger's lead.

# ? Mar 19, 2024 09:39

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# ? May 26, 2024 15:11

stephenthinkpad: Jan 2, 2020

gradenko_2000 posted:

please don't forget that many of us have been demanding that the USA leave us the gently caress alone for decades

Go go go

# ? Mar 19, 2024 09:43

crepeface: Nov 5, 2004; r*p*f*c*

gradenko_2000 posted:

please don't forget that many of us have been demanding that the USA leave us the gently caress alone for decades

lol i mean that you guys have a very similar trajectory of the government walking down that same road

# ? Mar 19, 2024 10:09

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

crepeface posted:

lol i mean that you guys have a very similar trajectory of the government walking down that same road

buddy, you're next

WWG1WGA

# ? Mar 19, 2024 10:11

crepeface: Nov 5, 2004; r*p*f*c*

gradenko_2000 posted:

buddy, you're next

WWG1WGA

uhhhh, do YOU have an imaginary sub deal?!!?!?

# ? Mar 19, 2024 10:21

Soapy_Bumslap: Jun 19, 2013; We're gonna need a bigger chode; Grimey Drawer

Imagining Chinese computer scientists see us spend computational resources on 3 titted anime girls and having the same reaction as the Soviets finding out we're researching magic brain powers

# ? Mar 19, 2024 11:31

genericnick: Dec 26, 2012

Soapy_Bumslap posted:

Imagining Chinese computer scientists see us spend computational resources on 3 titted anime girls and having the same reaction as the Soviets finding out we're researching magic brain powers

Don't think you know Chinese computer scientists

# ? Mar 19, 2024 11:32

Soapy_Bumslap: Jun 19, 2013; We're gonna need a bigger chode; Grimey Drawer

genericnick posted:

Don't think you know Chinese computer scientists

Only the sexy ones

# ? Mar 19, 2024 11:34

Votskomit: Jun 26, 2013

gradenko_2000 posted:

please don't forget that many of us have been demanding that the USA leave us the gently caress alone for decades

I finally figured out what the logo in your avatar is.

# ? Mar 19, 2024 12:09

bedpan: Apr 23, 2008

Soapy_Bumslap posted:

Imagining Chinese computer scientists see us spend computational resources on 3 titted anime girls and having the same reaction as the Soviets finding out we're researching magic brain powers

drat we can't allow a 3 titted anime girl gap

# ? Mar 19, 2024 13:02

brugroffil: Nov 30, 2015

gradenko_2000 posted:

please don't forget that many of us have been demanding that the USA leave us the gently caress alone for decades

But they're begging for Top US Military Genocide in this picture!!

# ? Mar 19, 2024 13:05

Ghost Leviathan: Mar 2, 2017; Exploration is ill-advised.

bedpan posted:

drat we can't allow a 3 titted anime girl gap

the chinese just used a pencil

# ? Mar 19, 2024 13:06

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

brugroffil posted:

But they're begging for Top US Military Genocide in this picture!!

*movie announcer voice*

U.S. Troops , Out Now !

# ? Mar 19, 2024 13:29

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019; Can't post for 12 hours!

this post gave me Havana syndrome and I'm glad to share it
The U.S.�China Rivalry in a New Medieval Age

www.rand.org posted:

Maybe you felt it watching a mob smash its way into the U.S. Capitol, or watching American military planes leave Afghanistan with people clinging to the sides. Maybe it was the angry parents jabbing fingers at each other over school vaccine requirements. Or the drug crisis. The homelessness crisis. The border crisis.

It can seem like things are falling apart. Timothy Heath has felt it for years now. He's a senior international defense researcher at RAND. In a recent report, he argued that all of the trend lines�weakening government, a fragmenting society, pervasive threats�suggest the era of industrial superpowers is over. We have entered a new medieval age.

Heath studies China, and his conclusion comes with a warning. Two centuries of American experience in conflict and competition will become less and less relevant as we move into this neomedieval world. Our rivalry with China may have more in common with the fitful conflicts of the 14th century than with the cataclysmic world wars of the 20th.

�We've seen for many years now signs that this age of prosperity and national strength is eroding,� Heath said. �I had been trying to figure out how to explain it, and none of the theories out there were very helpful. This idea of neomedievalism really clicked for me. And once I started digging around, the pattern was unmistakable. Just about every social science field was reporting evidence of regression.�

This is not a prediction. Heath believes we've been living in a neomedieval world for around 20 years now. We just didn't realize it.

That doesn't mean we're slipping back into an era of knights, castles, swords, and serfdom. The conveniences of modern life, from basic sanitation to artificial intelligence, are not in danger. Instead, when policy experts like Heath look back at the later Middle Ages, they see a handful of specific trends that put hard limits on what governments could do.

Power and wealth were concentrated in the hands of an elite few. Most people were disengaged, more concerned with getting through another day than with the affairs of state. Threats might come from within or without, from enemy armies, pandemic disease, famine, drought, disaster, or violent crime.

As a result, a king marching off to war could not mobilize his entire society to support the cause. Push people too hard, tax them too heavily, and they might rebel. Instead, leaders filled out their armies with hired mercenaries and often preferred the slow grind of a siege over the cost and casualties of open battle.

Skip ahead a few centuries, and everything changed. The industrial revolution brought with it a new kind of state: centralized, cohesive, its people united by shared ideals. Leaders could call upon patriotism and collective sacrifice in times of need. They could field huge citizen armies, swing their entire economies into the fight, and wage total war for years.

Experts often look to the Cold War to help understand the growing competition between China and the United States. But the Cold War involved two nations at the height of their power, fully focused on each other. That's not what Heath sees when he looks at the world of 2024.

Once-powerful governments struggle to govern. Politics have become tribal. Inequality is rising�and with it, social unrest and division. In the United States, barely 20 percent of the people who answered a recent Pew Research Center survey said they trust the federal government to do the right thing. The greatest national challenge in recent history, COVID, drove people apart instead of bringing them together.

In China, too, inequality and slowing economic growth have soured the national mood. Crime and corruption are rampant. National leaders increasingly rely on repression to maintain order and authority. The country's internal security budget has exceeded its defense budget for more than a decade.

These are not countries that could throw everything they have at each other. �The weaknesses of the state make it so risky, and the challenges these countries face are so immense, that they really can't afford that sort of conflict,� Heath said.

Decisionmakers need to adopt a more neomedieval mindset. They cannot assume the public will get behind a war effort that requires real and sustained sacrifice. Other threats�a pandemic, climate change, political upheaval�will always vie for attention and resources. With nations everywhere facing the same challenges, partners and allies will also be stretched thin.

Decisionmakers need to adopt a neomedieval mindset. They cannot assume the public will get behind a war effort that requires real and sustained sacrifice.

That means, in any crisis, both the United States and China will be under pressure to avoid unnecessary escalation. The result will more likely be a long-running, low-intensity state of conflict, not the total war both countries have braced for. It may flash over at times; a Chinese blockade of Taiwan is one possible scenario. But even those clashes will be modest by modern standards and followed by long periods of recovery. More often, battles will be fought in cyberspace, in economic arenas, in the �gray zone� just short of war.

Heath's advice to policymakers: Be immediately skeptical of any recommendation that refers to the Cold War or the world wars to explain U.S.�China dynamics. The world doesn't work that way anymore.

�The neomedieval era is here to stay,� he and his coauthors wrote. The trends they documented �are structural,� they added, �and return to the conditions of the industrial nation-state is impossible�. The sooner U.S. decisionmakers and planners recognize and accept the reality of the neomedieval era, the sooner appropriate and effective strategies and plans can be developed.�

Russia is learning all of this the hard way.

It rolled its tanks and troops into Ukraine as if it were fighting a conventional, industrial-age war. Then it bogged down. Since then, it has struggled to carry out even a partial mobilization. It has gone to ever-greater lengths to avoid any sense of sacrifice at home. Instead, it has bolstered its battered army with mercenaries and militia, some loyal to criminal warlords. It has targeted civilian areas, hoping to break Ukraine's will to fight, rather than attempt any more knockout blows with armored columns. And it has brought back that most medieval of tactics, the siege.

�You're not seeing these epic battles, the set-piece battles, that were common in the world wars and before, large formations fighting it out over a couple of days and then the battle being over,� Heath said. �It's just a long series of skirmishes, artillery duels, minor incursions, and sieges. Even the methods seem medieval.�

He believes future historians will look back at the Russian war as a turning point, the end of one chapter and the start of another. But, in a way, it picks up the story where it left off two centuries ago. �The novelty here isn't the arrival of a new medieval age,� he said. �The novelty is really the last 200 years in the West. The neomedieval state we're entering now is going to be much closer to the norm for most of human experience.�

# ? Mar 19, 2024 17:48

ikanreed: Sep 25, 2009; I honestly I have no idea who cannibal[SIC] is and I do not know why I should know.

syq dude, just syq!

Hong Kong government bans collaborating with foreign adversaries to undermine the government. International media in a tizzy.

# ? Mar 19, 2024 17:57

tristeham: Jul 31, 2022

gradenko_2000 posted:

please don't forget that many of us have been demanding that the USA leave us the gently caress alone for decades

hope they win

# ? Mar 19, 2024 18:06

Some Guy TT: Aug 30, 2011

strange feelings re Daisy posted:

It's 22 hours, which is way too loving long. You can feel it dragging when you watch.There's a fan edit I liked which cuts it down to a more reasonable 6 hours:
https://disembiggened.com/

does the fan edit include the industrial era scene on the train just need to confirm that it keeps the epic big budget scenes

i mean theres smaller scenes i like take the one where the guy shows his daughter how to squeeze eggs through small openings but i can understand why something like that would get cut

# ? Mar 19, 2024 20:55

Dr. Jerrold Coe: Feb 6, 2021; Is it me?

gradenko_2000 posted:

please don't forget that many of us have been demanding that the USA leave us the gently caress alone for decades

hmmm sounds like you're not respecting the lived experience of indigenous NED workers, that's very problematic

# ? Mar 19, 2024 20:58

WhiskeyWhiskers: Oct 14, 2013; "هذا ليس عادلاً."
"هذا ليس عادلاً على الإطلاق."
"كان هناك وقت الآن."
(السياق الخفي: للقراءة)

mawarannahr posted:

this post gave me Havana syndrome and I'm glad to share it
The U.S.�China Rivalry in a New Medieval Age

"Our empire may be in terminal decline, but if I don't imagine that China will collapse I may kill myself" is a much more concise way of writing this article.

# ? Mar 19, 2024 21:00

genericnick: Dec 26, 2012

mawarannahr posted:

this post gave me Havana syndrome and I'm glad to share it
The U.S.–China Rivalry in a New Medieval Age

Thanks, I'm gonna use the hamas arrows on this

# ? Mar 19, 2024 21:14

stephenthinkpad: Jan 2, 2020

mawarannahr posted:

this post gave me Havana syndrome and I'm glad to share it
The U.S.�China Rivalry in a New Medieval Age

This guy kind of have correct diagnosis and advise to the US (nobody is willing to fight for the US ruling class's foreign adventure anymore). But he can't say it loud to their face, so he invented a new word "neomedieval" to apply to both US and China. I don't think this correctly descibe China's problems.

# ? Mar 19, 2024 21:49

WhiskeyWhiskers: Oct 14, 2013; "هذا ليس عادلاً."
"هذا ليس عادلاً على الإطلاق."
"كان هناك وقت الآن."
(السياق الخفي: للقراءة)

They didn't even come up with a new way of coping with being unable to mention Empire. It's just reheated Yanis Varoufakis/Graeber, 'neo-feudalism' poo poo again, but from the right.

# ? Mar 19, 2024 22:55

stephenthinkpad: Jan 2, 2020

Somebody from Cato will coin the phrase "Medieval Punk".

# ? Mar 19, 2024 23:09

Fat-Lip-Sum-41.mp3: Nov 15, 2003

mawarannahr posted:

this post gave me Havana syndrome and I'm glad to share it
The U.S.�China Rivalry in a New Medieval Age

its a good article. there are two paths: financial capitalism leading to feudalism, and industrial capitalism leading to socialism. rand just can't admit that china is doing the second one.

# ? Mar 20, 2024 00:38

my dad: Oct 17, 2012; this shall be humorous

Fat-Lip-Sum-41.mp3 posted:

its a good article. there are two paths: financial capitalism leading to feudalism, and industrial capitalism leading to socialism. rand just can't admit that china is doing the second one.

what the gently caress are you going on about?

# ? Mar 20, 2024 00:56

Mantis42: Jul 26, 2010

Socialism requires the development and centralization of the productive forces. Fat Lip is 'going on about' Marxism

# ? Mar 20, 2024 01:01

Fat-Lip-Sum-41.mp3: Nov 15, 2003

my dad posted:

what the gently caress are you going on about?

hudson. i know people will argue that there is no distinction between "financial capitalism" and "industrial capitalism", and its a good argument that may prove to be right, but the distinction comes in when the state plays a role in ensuring that financialization and rent seeking does not become the guiding logic of economic development

# ? Mar 20, 2024 01:04

Mantis42: Jul 26, 2010

The barrier is the rate of profit. Industry requires intensive capital investment while being a numbers fuckstein collecting rent requires almost none at all. China has state capacity to channel capital into industry in a way the west no longer can.

# ? Mar 20, 2024 01:12

stephenthinkpad: Jan 2, 2020

I know what "industrial capitalism" is, what is "financial capitalism"? Can you really do "finance" without controlling the world currency?

# ? Mar 20, 2024 01:20

Flournival Dixon: Jan 29, 2024

stephenthinkpad posted:

I know what "industrial capitalism" is, what is "financial capitalism"? Can you really do "finance" without controlling the world currency?

we're about to find out now in the era of dedollarization (probably not i bet)

# ? Mar 20, 2024 01:38

Fat-Lip-Sum-41.mp3: Nov 15, 2003

stephenthinkpad posted:

I know what "industrial capitalism" is, what is "financial capitalism"? Can you really do "finance" without controlling the world currency?

It's when you go from MCM to M-M, skipping commodity production or rather pawning it off on someone else in exchange for interest, which is rent-seeking and maintained through force of arms, paid for through that dominance of the world currency.

And you can if A) you become the dominant economic power, enabling you to supplant the world currency (this probably means a world war), B) a significant chunk of the world splits with you into an alternate financial system, which seems more likely, or C) you become a dog of US empire.

Fat-Lip-Sum-41.mp3 has issued a correction as of 01:50 on Mar 20, 2024

# ? Mar 20, 2024 01:39

fart simpson: Jul 2, 2005; DEATH TO AMERICA

stephenthinkpad posted:

I know what "industrial capitalism" is, what is "financial capitalism"? Can you really do "finance" without controlling the world currency?

hudsons basic argument is that financial capitalism is based on profit via rent extraction, and industrial capitalism is based in profit via the production and manufacture of goods. the second one, as the rate of profit declines, leads to more and more centralized industrial planning and development to continue operating which should eventually lead to socialism. the first one leads to centralized money and assets in the hands of a few rich people and the destruction of industrial development

# ? Mar 20, 2024 01:53

Strangelet Wave: Nov 6, 2004; Surely you're joking!

parasyte posted:

of course they're not different. and if you blow up something that expected a different frequency that's on you for not reading carefully lol

this is a typical grounded outlet (3-prong outlets aren't common so you have to ground most things yourself like this)

they also allow the sale of unusual power strips

# ? Mar 20, 2024 03:10

Mandel Brotset: Jan 1, 2024

Fat-Lip-Sum-41.mp3 posted:

It's when you go from MCM to M-M,

like any good capitalist I like m&ms

# ? Mar 20, 2024 03:59

dead gay comedy forums: Oct 21, 2011

stephenthinkpad posted:

I know what "industrial capitalism" is, what is "financial capitalism"? Can you really do "finance" without controlling the world currency?

financial capitalism is the dominant form of capitalism in neoliberalism. The rate of profit and return of investment from finance takes flight from industrial profit - following capital's logic, banks and investment conglomerates start sequestering more and more value from its economy by extracting greater rents and interest, making productive investment correspondingly less profitable.

it's what has been happening in the west since Reagan and Thatcher.

# ? Mar 20, 2024 05:00

atelier morgan: Mar 11, 2003; super-scientific, ultra-gay; Lipstick Apathy

dead gay comedy forums posted:

financial capitalism is the dominant form of capitalism in neoliberalism. The rate of profit and return of investment from finance takes flight from industrial profit - following capital's logic, banks and investment conglomerates start sequestering more and more value from its economy by extracting greater rents and interest, making productive investment correspondingly less profitable.

it's what has been happening in the west since Reagan and Thatcher.

it was happening when marx was writing captial

# ? Mar 20, 2024 06:37

dead gay comedy forums: Oct 21, 2011

atelier morgan posted:

it was happening when marx was writing captial

it was, but not as the dominant paradigm; apologies if I wasn't clear

# ? Mar 20, 2024 07:33

Bald Stalin: Jul 11, 2004; Our posts

my dad posted:

what the gently caress are you going on about?

Technofeudalism killed Capitalism. Now, buy some hats.

# ? Mar 20, 2024 07:55

Orange Devil: Oct 1, 2010; Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Got any anti-hats?

# ? Mar 20, 2024 08:47

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# ? May 26, 2024 15:11

Corky Romanovsky: Oct 1, 2006; Soiled Meat

Adrian Zenz still winning the hearts of the brightest minds.

# ? Mar 20, 2024 11:52

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Asia/Oceania] Yellen says she hopes China wont mount retaliation against any steps Washington takes

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