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Twerk from Home posted:I saw 7600Ks available for order on Newegg yesterday, did it get pulled down? Everybody should really be waiting to see Zen, though! I'm not seeing anything for either the CPU or boards.
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Jan 5, 2017 18:19
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You can get some older Xeon chips that work in X79 and X99 that have a lot more cores as well for reasonable prices sometimes, however you have the limit of no overclocking as the more cores you get, usually the Ghz drops to compensate. So depending on your workload, it could be a tossup. Today at CES Intel showed off a few Laptops with Cannon Lake slated for Q4 2017 and some VR stuff. Yay? Just seems odd to just release an Uninspired Kabby Lake and already demoing another CPU thats also coming out in the same year (if at the end of it). And probably another lacking much if anything outside of power savings. Not sure what they can do for VR specific optimizations unless they are going to tap into the chips encoding capabilities directly for real time inside out positional tracking or something. Do still look forward to Zen, but man I wish Intel would take a year off and pull an Nvidia and do a 1.5+- year R&D on a new chip instead.
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Jan 5, 2017 18:27
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Kaddish posted:I'm not seeing anything for either the CPU or boards. How about here: http://promotions.newegg.com/NEemail/Jan-0-2017/BuildorBuy_72jn20osi_05/index-landing.html
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Jan 5, 2017 18:30
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Twerk from Home posted:How about here: http://promotions.newegg.com/NEemail/Jan-0-2017/BuildorBuy_72jn20osi_05/index-landing.html What the heck! Thanks, I didn't see anything from searching or using categories.
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Jan 5, 2017 18:32
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EdEddnEddy posted:Do still look forward to Zen, but man I wish Intel would take a year off and pull an Nvidia and do a 1.5+- year R&D on a new chip instead. They do spend a lot more than 1.5 years on new architectures, but OEMs want to turn out new products on a yearly basis and really would prefer not to be trying to sell the same parts year after year so most of the generations are small iterations on what came before. I would be shocked if Intel doesn't have a new architecture in the works but it's not going to be ready for 2017 or even perhaps 2018.
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Jan 5, 2017 18:39
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Eletriarnation posted:They do spend a lot more than 1.5 years on new architectures, but OEMs want to turn out new products on a yearly basis and really would prefer not to be trying to sell the same parts year after year so most of the generations are small iterations on what came before. I would be shocked if Intel doesn't have a new architecture in the works but it's not going to be ready for 2017 or even perhaps 2018. If that's the case im going to try and make my i7 2600k last till then because the 7600k does not impress me at all. I also refuse to pay more for what is essentially a 6600k.
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Jan 5, 2017 18:42
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I feel like you shouldn't take the fact that Intel puts out a new product line every year as some sort of message that they expect you to buy a new computer every year. Of course they would love it if you did but it's a silly expectation. The new product lines are to push people over the edge when they don't have a machine at all or have one several years old and are wavering. The 7600K isn't any more expensive than the 6600K though, or at least it shouldn't be if retailers follow tray pricing.
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Jan 5, 2017 18:46
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It is like old timey car models that came out every year. The 2017 i7k now comes with a Sadly no great deals to be had on 2016 i7k's still on the lot.
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Jan 5, 2017 19:06
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Eletriarnation posted:They do spend a lot more than 1.5 years on new architectures, but OEMs want to turn out new products on a yearly basis and really would prefer not to be trying to sell the same parts year after year so most of the generations are small iterations on what came before. I would be shocked if Intel doesn't have a new architecture in the works but it's not going to be ready for 2017 or even perhaps 2018. I am sure all CPU/GPU makers spend much more than 1.5 years, however the need to release a chip just for release sake it seems is really making any new product announcement form Intel super dry. Heck you still see new products coming out now with Nvidia 900 GPU's even though that generation is now quite old officially, yet they have to have the latest and greatest CPU, that does didly squat for performance (maybe a little battery life) and introduces plenty of little bugs that have to be worked out partially before the next CPU rollout. (Skylake XPS13 anyone? That took a long while to get th GPU Black Screen flashing bug worked out for sure). I just wish they could finish and polish a chip before having to shove it out and treat it similar to PC games where you release it and patch it post launch for 6 months then pretty much forget about it fixed or not. I understand the want for OEM's to have something new, but there is plenty they can work on to improve their designs over just throwing out the same thing with a new CPU and wondering why the "PC is Dead" Sales tank. Ugh.
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Jan 5, 2017 19:14
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From a gaming perspective performance from Skylake to Kaby is lackluster but motherboards have improved across virtually all of the vendors lines. For someone like me, looking to upgrade and cold on AMD, there is no reason not to take the z270 plunge. -Plus, 5GHz looks to be pretty easily attainable on Kaby, a nice bonus.
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Jan 5, 2017 19:18
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EdEddnEddy posted:I am sure all CPU/GPU makers spend much more than 1.5 years, however the need to release a chip just for release sake it seems is really making any new product announcement form Intel super dry. Maybe I'm an Intel apologist, but I feel like if they lined up new architecture releases with new die shrinks and just put out a hugely improved chip every 4 years then threads like this would be full of people complaining about how they expect us to buy the same old chip for so long. Any way they slice it, they're trying to soften the hard blow that processors just aren't improving at the speed they were 10 years ago. I don't think that longer cycles will deliver that much more improvement over time when they already have multiple teams working on different products, and I don't think that Intel is just being slow for the hell of it because if they could innovate faster they'd be doing it to sell more $5000+ Xeons to datacenters. The announcements do make a lot of hay over small differences but that's marketing the world over and it's why technical reviews are invaluable.
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Jan 5, 2017 19:35
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4 years would be rough for sure, but a new chip ever 2 is sure a lot better than a "new" chip every 6 months.
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Jan 5, 2017 19:49
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Yeah but they would do that if they could. They're not doing it because they can't, unless you have a better explanation. Skylake and Kaby Lake desktop chips were already a year and a half apart, not 6 months. Haswell to Devil's Canyon was also a year and a half, and Devil's Canyon to Skylake was 15 months. (source: ark.intel.com, looking at which quarter the i7-*K launched for each generation) There's the other issue that some posters have previously brought up to consider too, which is that desktops are an afterthought to Intel R&D based on the amount of revenue they provide. Server chips are getting a few more cores and mobile chips use a bit less power at the same performance level every generation as planned. Eletriarnation fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Jan 5, 2017 |
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Jan 5, 2017 19:52
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Twerk from Home posted:You using NTFS or ReFS? If NTFS, how often are you running a chkdsk and how long does that take for 300TB? Wowza. NTFS. The Storage Space is clustered and NTFS with storage spaces is self healing while the disks are online, so we don't see performance degradation or have to take the disks or shares offline. The other nice thing about it is that if more then one disk is in a warning state it can do chkdsk in parallel so your only checking a few TB at a time. Maybe 2 hours to check a single physical disk with no downtime.
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Jan 5, 2017 21:06
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EdEddnEddy posted:Today at CES Intel showed off a few Laptops with Cannon Lake slated for Q4 2017 and some VR stuff. Yay? Just seems odd to just release an Uninspired Kabby Lake and already demoing another CPU thats also coming out in the same year (if at the end of it). And probably another lacking much if anything outside of power savings. Not sure what they can do for VR specific optimizations unless they are going to tap into the chips encoding capabilities directly for real time inside out positional tracking or something. This isn't actually new behaviour from intel, it's just a new branding on something they already did. In the past, they have launched a desktop processor model, then followed up with a a low power laptop variant (-U, -ULV) some months later. At the same time a set of low power desktop versions appear (-T), and Xeon server variants also appear (-E) around then. These all used the same branding as the current generation, but are actually improved designs for the process node. Now, intel has chosen to stretch out the timeline a bit, and rebrand those improved designs as a separate, new CPU model. That's why we saw Kaby Lake laptop parts in 3Q 2016, before the scheduled desktop part, as that was were the best return on investment would be. Intel intended to to launch the desktop chips very soon after, but ran into some unspecified manufacturing issues, and the desktops chips slid into 2017. Thus we are seeing the collision with Cannonlake. If intel hadn't chose to put Kaby Lake out as a new brand, and instead we got ultra low power skylake cpu's for laptops and desktops, nobody would have noticed or commented on it.
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Jan 5, 2017 21:21
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EoRaptor posted:If intel hadn't chose to put Kaby Lake out as a new brand, and instead we got ultra low power skylake cpu's for laptops and desktops, nobody would have noticed or commented on it. Well, the brand that's not a brand, because they get all weird about using codenames on external marketing stuff. It's not Skylake, it's 6th Generation Intel Core processors 
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Jan 5, 2017 21:29
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canyoneer posted:Well, the brand that's not a brand, because they get all weird about using codenames on external marketing stuff. It's not Skylake, it's 6th Generation Intel Core processors Yeah, the codenames confuse the gently caress out of me. I just look at the leading number on the processor and the tailing letter and then ignore it all because my i7-940 is still handling everything I do just fine.
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Jan 5, 2017 21:54
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Wasn't Kaby Lake supposed to be super low power for video playback (decoding)? Haven't seen any benchmarks to this effect, but I remember this promotional material: http://www.anandtech.com/show/10610/intel-announces-7th-gen-kaby-lake-14nm-plus-six-notebook-skus-desktop-coming-in-january/3
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Jan 5, 2017 22:02
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ufarn posted:Wasn't Kaby Lake supposed to be super low power for video playback (decoding)? Haven't seen any benchmarks to this effect, but I remember this promotional material: Assuming that the software you're using to play back video supports hardware acceleration, then yes Kaby Lake's encode / decode is great. 10-bit HEVC, VP9, all sorts of cool stuff.
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Jan 5, 2017 22:13
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There it is! Maybe my HTPC will end up being a Kaby Lake NUC.
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Jan 5, 2017 23:47
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I'm curious, does that sort of hardware encoding/decoding work if I was to throw a low end chip into a NAS with a Plex Server? The AMD E-450 I am running now doesn't have enough CPU oomph to do any sort of transcoding in real time and its starting to annoy me (even on stuff it should be streaming raw in the dang first place). I was also thinking of just saying screw it and run the Plex Server off my Shield TV pro and just use the NAS as just a NAS and network storage it to the Shield. Hmm Supposedly the Shield can rock 2 streams transcoding at the same time too.
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Jan 6, 2017 00:04
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Kaddish posted:From a gaming perspective performance from Skylake to Kaby is lackluster but motherboards have improved across virtually all of the vendors lines. For someone like me, looking to upgrade and cold on AMD, there is no reason not to take the z270 plunge. How have motherboards improved? Optane and a couple more pcie lines didn't seem worth it to me so I ordered a z170 extreme 4 for 2/3rds the price. Spermanent Record fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Jan 6, 2017 |
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Jan 6, 2017 00:45
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EdEddnEddy posted:I'm curious, does that sort of hardware encoding/decoding work if I was to throw a low end chip into a NAS with a Plex Server? The AMD E-450 I am running now doesn't have enough CPU oomph to do any sort of transcoding in real time and its starting to annoy me (even on stuff it should be streaming raw in the dang first place). Plex doesn't use hardware acceleration on Windows or Linux. Plex's competitor Emby will use hardware acceleration, but only on Windows I believe. The hardware acceleration for home media server story isn't great yet.
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Jan 6, 2017 01:48
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I can't believe hardware decoding is still as much of a mess as it was when it first started arriving with the GeForce 9400 GT. The only program I trust to use it as much as it can is Windows Media Player. 
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Jan 6, 2017 04:01
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LiquidRain posted:I can't believe hardware decoding is still as much of a mess as it was when it first started arriving with the GeForce 9400 GT. The only program I trust to use it as much as it can is Windows Media Player.
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Jan 6, 2017 04:07
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If I bought an i7-7700 and a Gigabyte B150M, would it be possible to update the BIOS using the 7700? They have something called qflash that the bios itself can update from usb, but I don't know if it could get that far with an unrecognized processor. Would I have to find an older processor that the older bios would recognize? I don't have any LGA1151 cpus on hand..
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Jan 6, 2017 04:34
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LiquidRain posted:I can't believe hardware decoding is still as much of a mess as it was when it first started arriving with the GeForce 9400 GT. The only program I trust to use it as much as it can is Windows Media Player. MPC-HC does a pretty good job these days. VLC is still lovely with it though.
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Jan 6, 2017 05:05
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Does MPV do hardware acceleration well?
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Jan 6, 2017 05:07
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Cardboard Box A posted:That's nothing, remember the days of hardware MPEG-2 cards and iDCT acceleration on ATI videocards? My Blue and White G3 had the Rage 128 with the MPEG2 add-on so I could watch DVDs on my computer. That was pretty baller in the fall of '99.
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Jan 6, 2017 06:28
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PerrineClostermann posted:Does MPV do hardware acceleration well? im my experience yes, but you have to manually enable it
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Jan 6, 2017 10:12
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Wait, why is it still a mess? With DXVA, VAAPI and VDPAU?
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Jan 6, 2017 10:14
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Perhaps the mess is... VLC?
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Jan 6, 2017 11:08
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Spermanent Record posted:How have motherboards improved? Optane and a couple more pcie lines didn't seem worth it to me so I ordered a z170 extreme 4 for 2/3rds the price. 2/3rds the price of what? The z270 version of the Extreme 4? Because they are the same price at Newegg currently. Looking at just the Asrock, you get the above noted extra pcie lanes/optane support, improved sound, an extra m.2 slot, and some sweet, sweet RGB. At first I thought the 270 had more power phases but it looks the same.
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Jan 6, 2017 18:51
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The z170m Extreme 4 was $109 when I ordered it and it's currently $125. Unless there's anything wrong with the smaller board it seems like a better buy when it goes back to the lower price.
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Jan 6, 2017 19:08
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Kodi sort of works as well. Heck I can play a BluRay with it on an E-350 which is sort of a feat in of itself and if it couldn't do Hardware acceleration, there is no way it would play at all. So as for a Plex server with hardware acceleration, my Shield TV Pro sounds like the best bet at this point lol. Funny that. Though I have been wanting to swap my NAS from FreeNAS (God I hate their layout and NAS performance) to NAS4Free (Harder to setup Jails for running apps and stuff, but the NAS stuff just works infinitely better).
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Jan 6, 2017 20:02
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EdEddnEddy posted:So as for a Plex server with hardware acceleration, my Shield TV Pro sounds like the best bet at this point lol. Funny that. Though I have been wanting to swap my NAS from FreeNAS (God I hate their layout and NAS performance) to NAS4Free (Harder to setup Jails for running apps and stuff, but the NAS stuff just works infinitely better). Unsure what your media is encoded with, but be aware that Plex on the Shield only supports h264/h265/MPEG2 streams for hardware acceleration. Out of curiosity, what do you mean by bad FreeNAS performance? I've been running 9.x builds for years and it will happily saturate GigE all day long. 10.x builds are pretty cool, but the web GUI right now (and a lot of other subsystems) are painfully slow more often than not. Then again, beta, so whatever.
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Jan 6, 2017 20:20
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DrDork posted:Unsure what your media is encoded with, but be aware that Plex on the Shield only supports h264/h265/MPEG2 streams for hardware acceleration. I just use RipBot264 for my BluRay encoding to MKV so they should natively play on things like a PS3 and my Panasonic TV, but for whatever reason, my FreeNas box with Plex on it, all running on an AMD E-450 based board, has trouble delivering some BluRay rips and I cannot figure out what causes it. Some rips will be different between movie types (Live Action is vastly bigger than say a Pixar rip) but all are ripped at the same dang settings, yet the server acts like it needs to transcode some and not others, yet can't seem to keep up on any of them that do. I can switch to the Plex server running on my PC and have no issues whatsoever however so that leads me to believe the CPU just doesn't have the grunt needed to transcode didly squat in realtime. (Since the E-450 is just a step up from say an Atom D510 or something similar with a much better GPU) Also FreeNas seems to be ok with normal data transfers (Raid-Z1 with 4 3TB drives) hiting 75MB/s, but overall the interface is just frustratingly clunky and storage pool handling, snapshots, and other things are just a chore to have to dink with. I just don't feel confident in various bits that I knew pretty well working with a Nas4Free setup before I went from 4 750G drives to 4 3TB drives and the Plex intigration). Hard to really describe it I guess but drat if even the stupid weekly checkup logs aren't nearly useless from FreeNAS, but detailed as hell and actually contain useful data on Nas4Free, and I can't figure out how to make them useful from FreeNas. Anyway this isn't the NAS discussion thread so maybe I should just ask there next time I want to dig into the NAS'es.
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Jan 6, 2017 20:29
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I'd take a look at the audio streams. It's dumb, but if you can get decent raw network performance and are using natively-decodable video streams, audio is the only thing I can think of off the top of my head that would drop it into a transcoding mode.
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Jan 6, 2017 20:42
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LiquidRain posted:I can't believe hardware decoding is still as much of a mess as it was when it first started arriving with the GeForce 9400 GT. The only program I trust to use it as much as it can is Windows Media Player.
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Jan 6, 2017 22:29
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necrobobsledder posted:It's not that much better for custom HTPC boxes than when I was using the nVidia Ion and Ion 2 platforms with XBMC. Anyone remember that chipset besides me? That was when hardware decode finally got decent enough where 1080p h.264 was viable with a low-power machine paired with an Atom. Honestly though, I'm not sure if I should have ever moved on from that little ASRock box I had because everything since then hasn't been much more capable fundamentally. Ha I have a HTPC box with that exact chip actually at a friends house. (D510 with a Ion) and it does BluRay with XBMC just fine. However, it likes to lock up and reboot with his Wireless Keyboard (no other change that I can find that causes it because If I bring it home and test it, it works fine for days on end..) He won't get a new keyboard though so... v  v
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Jan 6, 2017 22:34
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