|
Subjunctive posted:fb/google/oracle/etc have other offices as well, and hire from other universities as well. you get the same offer coming from CMU or Waterloo and going to FB in Seattle.
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2015 14:50
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 15:43 |
|
|
Shaggar posted:the idea of hiring a recent college grad instead of someone who knows how to do their job is so weird to me. idk my company does it, though it's mostly because we're near a tech college and all the older people we've brought in somehow learned how to code by 1991 standards and never loving changed. i think that's just cuz we're poo poo at hiring and a terrible company though.
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2015 14:52
|
|
|
new college grads are great because they don't understand that pulling 70 hour crunch weeks every other week isn't something to be proud of or that you have to put up with.
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2015 14:58
|
|
|
Shifty Pony posted:new college grads are great because they don't understand that pulling 70 hour crunch weeks every other week isn't something to be proud of or that you have to put up with. I'm the managers who assume all working time is productive time and are happy that their employees are at their desks 70 hours a week even if they're sleeping or browsing the Internet for 30 of them
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2015 15:01
|
|
|
Citizen Tayne posted:I'm the managers who assume all working time is productive time and are happy that their employees are at their desks 70 hours a week even if they're sleeping or browsing the Internet for 69.95 of them
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2015 15:03
|
|
|
Shifty Pony posted:new college grads are great because they don't understand that pulling 70 hour crunch weeks every other week isn't something to be proud of or that you have to put up with. i'm young and fully understand that, but the guy who's been at this company the longest (almost 20 years!) is convinced that "that's just how the tech business is" and tells us about how "back in the day we had to work every weekend for weeks sometimes!!"
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2015 15:07
|
|
|
Shifty Pony posted:new college grads are great because they don't understand that pulling 70 hour crunch weeks every other week isn't something to be proud of or that you have to put up with. yeah but they're crunching 70 hours worth of useless garbage because they don't know what they're doing. they're a waste of money, but I bet it looks good on departmental budgets.
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2015 15:08
|
|
|
Shaggar posted:the idea of hiring a recent college grad instead of someone who knows how to do their job is so weird to me. for my degree program, our senior design project is getting in a group of 4-5 and having a company assign us a project that they later implement the company gets 4 engineers for the price of one and they don't even have to keep you on after four months
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2015 15:08
|
|
|
Shaggar posted:the idea of hiring a recent college grad instead of someone who knows how to do their job is so weird to me. it's easier to "yeah just write all this in Java - it's the Best Language and that's why we use it!"
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2015 15:09
|
|
|
computer parts posted:for my degree program, our senior design project is getting in a group of 4-5 and having a company assign us a project that they later implement where did they get their PEs from?
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2015 15:09
|
|
|
Citizen Tayne posted:where did they get their PEs from? i should've said EITs, my b
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2015 15:10
|
|
|
Munkeymon posted:it's easier to you're gonna spend a year training them to use a real language like java and breaking them of all the bad habits they learned in their plang degree. then they'll just go make more money somewhere else. its not worth it at all.
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2015 15:11
|
|
|
you cant even give them bitch work cause they'll gently caress that up too.
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2015 15:12
|
|
|
Shaggar posted:you're gonna spend a year training them to use a real language like java and breaking them of all the bad habits they learned in their plang degree. then they'll just go make more money somewhere else. its not worth it at all. Nah. "Give us your children until they are five, and they are ours forever". These people never leave. They have no perspective.
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2015 15:13
|
|
|
Shaggar posted:the idea of hiring a recent college grad instead of someone who knows how to do their job is so weird to me. the company that mark "young people are just smarter" zuckerberg started while he was still in college probably sees no problem with it. skills? who needs em
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2015 15:21
|
|
|
Shaggar posted:you're gonna spend a year training them to use a real language like java and breaking them of all the bad habits they learned in their plang degree. then they'll just go make more money somewhere else. its not worth it at all. thanks to the entirely benevolent influence of their new employers on their alma mater they already learned java as part of their degree
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2015 15:23
|
|
|
that's the best you can hope for and even then the profs probably don't know what they're doing cause they haven't been in the real world in decades.
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2015 15:24
|
|
|
Main Paineframe posted:the company that mark "young people are just smarter" zuckerberg started while he was still in college probably sees no problem with it. skills? who needs em they started working on facebook in like 2003 which might as well be the stone age in computing history
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2015 15:27
|
|
|
Citizen Tayne posted:where did they get their PEs from? see now this is actually an incorrect use of that complaint civil programs do this kind of thing, they're still engineers practicing engineering because they are under supervision of a PE
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2015 15:32
|
|
|
Munkeymon posted:thanks to the entirely benevolent influence of their new employers on their alma mater they already learned java as part of their degree yeah for me Java was CS 1 - 3, though everything after that was C/C++ at least. the tech college near me now only does Java (on windows!) and only teaches other things as electives. the shittier college some of my friends went to only teaches loving python.
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2015 15:35
|
|
|
yeah my bro is a civ e and for one of his senior projects they designed a new foot bridge for a park and he was all proud of it but they ended up not using the design. the difference between actual engineering and programming is that while there are correct ways to do things in both disciplines, you aren't required to do them when programming.
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2015 15:35
|
|
|
senior design projects are never actually used in business; if the team of a couple of seniors could do it in a semester or two while working on all the other academic commitments they have and all the crap they have to write up for the class itself you could do it in house in a couple weeks tops with experienced people so the project is either irrelevant or an actual problem that needs to be solved in which case the students will complete about a year after you have your real solution. still good for the students to get a "real" problem
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2015 15:39
|
|
|
java is an awful teaching language but is the best language for doing actually useful work that contributes to society but if you're writing yet another Rate My Dog's Boner app so you can get a sw8 exit in six months then yeah sure use whatever i guess.
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2015 15:41
|
|
|
no you use objective c for that so that you can put it on the only platform that matters
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2015 15:41
|
|
|
hobbesmaster posted:senior design projects are never actually used in business; if the team of a couple of seniors could do it in a semester or two while working on all the other academic commitments they have and all the crap they have to write up for the class itself you could do it in house in a couple weeks tops with experienced people my group designed a medical tool. i've done nothing remotely similar since i graduated lol. one group did some stuff with the local water company. their solution was essentially "put a tarp on it"
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2015 15:43
|
|
|
Endless Mike posted:nah, my university had a design program that a lot of engineers did in lieu of senior research that partnered with businesses around the state (and even one or two that were well outside) and none of the problems were vital, but were still interesting things to do. exactly my point?
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2015 15:44
|
|
|
Shaggar posted:the idea of hiring a recent college grad instead of someone who knows how to do their job is so weird to me. are you saying that recent college grads shouldn't get jobs? or that companies shouldn't hire just out of universities? everywhere I've worked on hiring has had an idea of how many university hires they can absorb versus how many experienced hires they need. there just aren't enough good experienced hires out there, so you hire someone promising and invest in training them. (experience is by no means a guarantee of being really good at the job either, sadly.)
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2015 15:53
|
|
|
Shifty Pony posted:new college grads are great because they don't understand that pulling 70 hour crunch weeks every other week isn't something to be proud of or that you have to put up with. young people are just smarter
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2015 15:56
|
|
|
Shaggar posted:the difference between actual engineering and programming is that while there are correct ways to do things in both disciplines, you aren't required to do them when programming. you're typically actively discouraged from doing things the correct way in programming. have you read my latest blog post on how we used agile development with node.js to disrupt the industry? we're hiring full stack developers too, but only if youre not a snob about things like code quality and can "get things done", i.e. write horribly broken poo poo that is delivered on an unrealistic timeframe.
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2015 16:05
|
|
|
all college grads are going to require some degree of babysitting, but there are definitely ones that have less of a negative impact then others. in my (extraordinarily meager) experience good interns are more often hamstrung/burned out by poor management then their own incompetence.
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2015 16:05
|
|
|
Endless Mike posted:nah, my university had a design program that a lot of engineers did in lieu of senior research that partnered with businesses around the state (and even one or two that were well outside) and none of the problems were vital, but were still interesting things to do. in my major it's common to partner up with hospitals spoiler: hospitals are incredibly mismanaged and have more money than sense
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2015 16:07
|
|
|
Im not sure why you are laughing about hiring college grads. you make up a team composition of experienced devs and new college hires so that the new college hires get mentoring and guidance and can become good experienced devs. It is a pretty good way of building a pool of highly capable developers. developers leaving is fixed by not having your work be lovely
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2015 16:07
|
|
|
welcome to yospos
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2015 16:30
|
|
|
Mr Dog posted:java is an awful teaching language but is the best language for doing actually useful work that contributes to society tbh I think it's a good teaching language because it forces you to do things really verbosely and "correct" (at least as far as Java defines "correct"). Garbage collection is a terrible crutch though so idk, but the language itself is almost annoyingly structured and verbose and I think that's just what you need when you're learning. C/C++ is just like "gently caress here's all this memory whatever make a class or don't go hog wild make a pointer to a pointer to a function that returns a pointer that goes to nothing i don't give a gently caress."
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2015 16:34
|
|
|
Subjunctive posted:are you saying that recent college grads shouldn't get jobs? i don't have the money to invest in training for a recent grad so im happy to let someone else do that and then hire them away.
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2015 16:38
|
|
|
Shaggar posted:i don't have the money to invest in training for a recent grad so im happy to let someone else do that and then hire them away. it's no harder to invest in training a new grad than in an experienced one. or do you not invest in your employees at all?
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2015 16:47
|
|
|
a new grad has to be taught how to program from scratch. an experienced dev just needs to be taught your system and anything new you add. experienced devs also take to new topics faster since they have a better general understanding of the profession.
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2015 16:51
|
|
|
Shaggar posted:a new grad has to be taught how to program from scratch. an experienced dev just needs to be taught your system and anything new you add. experienced devs also take to new topics faster since they have a better general understanding of the profession. I mean giving your employees professional development opportunities. do you have money for that?
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2015 17:03
|
|
|
not a lot, but we have some. we are a pretty small shop and hiring someone we'd have to invest significant basic training in would drag the team down. we use industry standard stuff like java and c# and maven and sql server so its not like we'd have to send someone off to jboss training or something equally insane.
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2015 17:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 15:43 |
|
|
ah, yeah, cookie cutter work is nice that way. makes the worker bees really fungible, don't have to treat them very well because they're easy to replace. helps to have geography without much buyer-side competition too. what are they gonna do, become an analyst for red monk or bus tables at duck fat? you really have this poo poo down. more seriously though, when was the last time someone on your team went to a conference it took a class? (this is a favorite question for interviewers.)
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2015 17:16
|
|