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Bottom Liner posted:Been playing a lot of Thunderstone Advance this week and I found a glaring issue and solution with the game design. When defeating monsters, instead of playing them like other cards from your deck, play them as constructs a la Ascension that stay out turn to turn. If you use their abilities in the dungeon or village, discard them like familiars. I was having far too many dead turns because I drew a few defeated monsters and weapons and had no heroes to use the weapons with, and didn't need to buy from the village anymore. Thunderstone is bad and doesn't understand how deckuilders work 
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May 8, 2015 18:55
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silvergoose posted:Ready to get rid of the avatar yet? don't you do it tekopo
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May 8, 2015 19:04
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silvergoose posted:Ready to get rid of the avatar yet?
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May 8, 2015 19:05
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OmegaGoo posted:I assume you haven't played Dominion? This is literally the best part of Dominion and one of the major reasons Ascension, et al are pretty bad. I've played a ton of Dominion. This is a different situation where drawing the VP cards can have a negative effect, not just a neutral. I'm also talking about the solo play, where monsters escaping the dungeon row is bad. And I know people here don't like Thunderstone, but the theme and concept is good enough for me to enjoy it and think of house rules to make it better. I'm also working on a variant idea where you have a static hero card you use like a construct and your deck building is all villagers, items, and spells. If I'm playing with a group, Dominion is the go to, but if I'm playing solo then Thunderstone or Ascension on the iPad scratch a similar itch (I love deck builders) and don't burn me out on Dominion. Bottom Liner fucked around with this message at 19:12 on May 8, 2015 |
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May 8, 2015 19:07
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Tekopo posted:not even close, I browse without AVs so I don't even notice half the time You WHAT?!
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May 8, 2015 19:18
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Some Numbers posted:You WHAT?!
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May 8, 2015 19:25
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I know it's possible, but I can't fathom why anyone would want to do that.
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May 8, 2015 19:50
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browsin' at work is a biggun.
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May 8, 2015 19:57
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Impermanent posted:browsin' at work is a biggun.
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May 8, 2015 20:02
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Tekopo posted:People keep mentioning Mall of Horror/City of Horror but I haven't played them myself. Player elimination (can be quite early), negotiations with very little restraint or timing structure, and relatively easy to kingmake. I had fun but there's better negotiation games, but still pretty probably the best zombie game.
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May 8, 2015 20:07
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Lichtenstein posted:Since all zombie games being poo poo is a given, what is the best skeleton game? 
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May 8, 2015 20:25
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Ordered Mage Knight. This is going to be the most complex game I own. I'll mostly be playing solo to pass time while caring for my sick grandma next week. Any good hints or tips for a first time player?
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May 8, 2015 20:34
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Don't underestimate mobility-granting powers, but don't focus too heavily on them.
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May 8, 2015 20:48
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Follow the game walkthrough and do what it says. It's a very good How To Play that introduces all the concepts and puts you in a position of being able to just look up anything that comes up from then on in the rulebook as it arises. That worked great for me but I never had any trouble reading a manual and doing what it says. I read and absorb written information very quickly so it was right up my alley. If you're more of a video demo person I know there's at least one youtube video out there people say is good, but someone else will have to chime in - videos don't do it for me, I find them incredibly boring actually and can't sit through them  There are a number of little special case rules (like whether a token is face up or face down depending on daylight, night, type, player adjacency, etc) but these are mostly addressed by just checking the little reference cards for things shown on a new tile when you reveal the tile.
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May 8, 2015 20:51
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It was pretty easy for me to learn from the book because I was playing solo. My instinct says it would not be a good game to play for your first time with another player who doesn't know how to play, but you should be good there.
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May 8, 2015 21:08
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Bottom Liner posted:Been playing a lot off solo Thunderstone Advance this week and I found a glaring issue and solution with the game design. When defeating monsters, instead of playing them like other cards from your deck, play them as constructs a la Ascension that stay out turn to turn. If you use their abilities in the dungeon or village, discard them like familiars. I was having far too many dead turns because I drew a few defeated monsters and weapons and had no heroes to use the weapons with, and didn't need to buy from the village anymore. Or you could use the Prepare action, which is literally the entire reason why I recommend Advance over Thunderstone 1.0.
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May 8, 2015 21:13
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This is the #2 reason why I'm 99% against house rules.
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May 8, 2015 21:14
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ConfusedUs posted:Ordered Mage Knight. You'll never go back to a monastery so burn that poo poo to the ground.
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May 8, 2015 21:50
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GrandpaPants posted:You'll never go back to a monastery so burn that poo poo to the ground. Likewise for villages. Two cards is a huge boost at any point in the game.
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May 8, 2015 21:55
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I invested so much money on loving Thunderstone and ended up selling all my stuff for ten bucks just to get rid of it. It drags on and on until one person is lucky enough to get the right hand to kill a monster, and typically it snowballs from there. I wanted to get a bunch of deckbuilders since I liked Dominion so much, but of course I didn't realize at the time most deckbuilders suck.
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May 8, 2015 22:03
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Mega64 posted:I invested so much money on loving Thunderstone and ended up selling all my stuff for ten bucks just to get rid of it. It drags on and on until one person is lucky enough to get the right hand to kill a monster, and typically it snowballs from there. I am a former Thunderstone Appreciator, and I agree 100% with your assessment.
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May 8, 2015 22:07
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Does this thread have any tips on teaching Dungeon Pets to newbies? I tried learning it with my girlfriend when we first got it, and while I understood she really seemed to struggle with it and got really frustrated. We are going to try again soon but I wanted to seek out any helpful advice first. She's not really great at communicating exactly what parts she doesn't understand, so I'm looking for general advice. She seems to get other worker placement games easily enough, and routinely beats me at Agricola: All Creatures Big and Small, so I'm not sure what the hang up is.
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May 8, 2015 22:15
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Don't teach it the way it's laid out in the rulebook - start with taking care of pets, and explain everything else as it arises from that.
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May 8, 2015 22:21
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wisdomHNOX posted:Does this thread have any tips on teaching Dungeon Pets to newbies? I tried learning it with my girlfriend when we first got it, and while I understood she really seemed to struggle with it and got really frustrated. We are going to try again soon but I wanted to seek out any helpful advice first. She's not really great at communicating exactly what parts she doesn't understand, so I'm looking for general advice. She seems to get other worker placement games easily enough, and routinely beats me at Agricola: All Creatures Big and Small, so I'm not sure what the hang up is. Do you have any idea yourself what might have been giving her trouble? One common hangup is that when you assign needs to pets, the only thing that matters is the color of the card depicted, not the symbol. So if a pet has two purple bars, you assign two purple cards to it, not two magic symbols. There's also the matter of the selling platform, where you can either sell pets for triple points and get an imp back for the next turn, or you can sell for double points and the imp stays on the platform.
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May 8, 2015 22:23
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I think the needs cards and selling were two of the biggest problems for her. She actually did very well in the games we played, but she didn't seem to really understand why. I think next time I will sit her down with a dummy hand and monster and go through a needs, competition, and selling round to help her get a better idea of how it all works. Thanks guys.
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May 8, 2015 22:30
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Broken Loose posted:Or you could use the Prepare action, which is literally the entire reason why I recommend Advance over Thunderstone 1.0. Doesn't using Prepare still advance the dungeon row? That doesn't solve the problem, just means you'll be drawing those dead cards again that much sooner. Mega64 posted:I invested so much money on loving Thunderstone and ended up selling all my stuff for ten bucks just to get rid of it. It drags on and on until one person is lucky enough to get the right hand to kill a monster, and typically it snowballs from there. Yeah I agree the multiplayer is pretty bad. I got this just for solo play which I think works a lot better. Bottom Liner fucked around with this message at 22:42 on May 8, 2015 |
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May 8, 2015 22:40
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Bottom Liner posted:Doesn't using Prepare still advance the dungeon row? That doesn't solve the problem, just means you'll be drawing those dead cards again that much sooner.  The real solution is to stop playing Thunderstone.
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May 8, 2015 23:15
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Yomi just came out on Steam, gonna stream matches for a while assuming I can actually find opponents http://www.hitbox.tv/Countblanc
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May 9, 2015 00:55
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Countblanc posted:Yomi just came out on Steam, gonna stream matches for a while assuming I can actually find opponents Stream is too funny, the Tekopo commentary is pretty amusing. My son's going to get this. I'm not as I am not buying anything on Steam until next month.
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May 9, 2015 01:14
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Countblanc posted:Yomi just came out on Steam, gonna stream matches for a while assuming I can actually find opponents Tell me how this game is not Rock Paper Scissors: lovely Anime Edition.
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May 9, 2015 01:24
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Sure I'll post Words later, gotta get my game on now though e: though maybe the server went down
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May 9, 2015 01:25
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Split the difference and stream your reply.
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May 9, 2015 01:27
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I have obs set up to not pick up my mic unfortunately or I would + commentate so my picks seem less random
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May 9, 2015 01:28
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Jedit posted:Tell me how this game is not Rock Paper Scissors: lovely Anime Edition. Asymmetric rock/paper/scissors is basically the foundation, yes. The asymmetry is what makes it interesting - making some "wins" inherently more desirable than others makes it more of a prediction game than just random chance. It rather directly mimics how fighting games play once both players have the technical skills to execute their moves correctly. You're also right about the art being lovely anime. That's also mimicking fighting games.
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May 9, 2015 02:10
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Mister Sinewave posted:Zombie game is too broad. Too broad to make a good game?
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May 9, 2015 02:28
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Too broad of a criteria. The poster was like "recommend me a zombie game that isn't Dead of Winter" and I'm just saying zombie game is an awfully broad brush. Like, "recommend me an anime game"  (don't actually)
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May 9, 2015 02:38
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Mister Sinewave posted:Too broad of a criteria. The poster was like "recommend me a zombie game that isn't Dead of Winter" and I'm just saying zombie game is an awfully broad brush. Tragedy Looper. 
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May 9, 2015 02:40
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It's a fair criticism, since "recommend me a medieval game" is an insane request, and is pretty similar.
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May 9, 2015 02:50
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So Yomi is pretty cool. Obviously the game is founded on an RPS mechanic (and bad anime), and it can definitely feel random for a bit, but it's really a game about three concepts - Knowing what you/your opponent can do (the characters) and knowing what they're likely to do (the players and game state). The first is pretty easy to grasp. Characters in Yomi have 5 different types of cards: Attacks, Throws, Blocks, Dodges, and Jokers. Every deck has two Jokers and some mix of the others. I won't explain what each specifically does, but Attack beats Throw beats Block/Dodge beats Attack, and Joker beats Attack and Throw + does some other weird poo poo. On my stream I was mostly playing Rook, who is notable for having one of the weirdest decks, as he has no Dodges. Additionally, his passive ability Stone Armor means I can discard two cards of the suit I played that turn to combo my opponent after they comboed me. While Rook's damage is super economic (his attacks do huge damage) he relies on Stone Armor or the threat of it to get a lot of stuff done, which means if he has a small hand he isn't threatening at all, so he has to Block regularly to draw cards. In my last two games I played against a Geiger player - Geiger can really harass characters who like to Block since his Time Spiral cards (Jack and Queen, decently-fast Attacks, and also one of his Aces which is much faster) allow him to Throw you after you Block one, meaning that they effectively beat both Throw and Block. Normally you can Dodge them just fine, but Rook obviously can't. These also beat Rook's King, a Throw that beats normal (2-10, not face cards) attacks faster than 5.0 which is one of his better options for dealing with fast characters. Geiger's damage isn't so hot most of the time though to make up for his amazing pressure options, so a lot of that matchup as Rook is figuring out when he's going to Block and throwing him on his rear end. Rook's high HP also helps this since it means you get some leeway to eat those attacks to bleed his hand. This is only scratching the surface of the matchup, but hopefully it demonstrates why card knowledge is important and contributes to making the game less random. The other part is knowing what your opponent wants to do or can do at any given time. This is heavily influenced by the above; I know my opponent wants to play Time Spirals all the loving time, and even moreso against Rook for the outlined reasons. Because of this, I need to hold onto my Jacks, a 2.2 speed attack that beats both of his face Spirals (2.4 and 3.3 speed, iirc) so when I predict a Time Spiral I can toss one out, wasting his Spiral and netting a bit of damage. Problem is, I only have four to his eight (or 12 if you count his Ace spirals) so I need to decide when it's most useful to use it. At one point in the game my opponent used an ability that let him recover some Time Spirals from his discard pile and could have easily killed me the next turn if he had a strong hand. I didn't have a Jack at the time so I basically had to play as if he didn't have a Throw, so I blocked. Sure enough, he didn't play a Spiral, so I knew he almost certainly didn't have one. I used a Throw next turn predicting a Block so he could build his hand up and find a Throw, and I was right! Did it again next turn, same result. Because I knew he'd have played a Spiral if he had a Throw, I was able to win two combats and get a lot of damage. The winning move for that game was when I used my Joker to search for two Aces (this is public knowledge) and then instead of using them to do my fast attack, I read his dodge attempt and used a normal throw. I knew he thought I'd use my aces since it beat all but two of his attacking options and most of those were in his discard pile. It's harder to talk about knowing what your opponent wants to do without using specific examples, but again the weighted matchups and combats means that you can use that knowledge to get some reads. Then there's noticing patterns of play and baiting and all those other good words.
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May 9, 2015 02:52
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Countblanc posted:So Yomi is pretty cool. this game sounds loving fabulous
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May 9, 2015 03:27
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