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I think we can all agree we want Ma Ha Suchi to be Usama bin Laden and not goat-wolf rape enthusiasm guy.
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# ? May 31, 2013 04:42 |
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# ? May 28, 2024 15:23 |
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I think there's a lot of value in maybe thinking of factions as distinct from splats, like, that Team Oblivion or Team Hell or Team Realm is bigger than the Exalt types traditionally associated with them. I'm not sure if standardized terms like "Iron Faction" does more to usefully allow this or to reify what, after all, should be a fairly broad spectrum of ideological banners to flock to, though.Mexcillent posted:I think we can all agree we want Ma Ha Suchi to be Usama bin Laden and not goat-wolf rape enthusiasm guy.
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# ? May 31, 2013 04:54 |
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Oligopsony posted:I think there's a lot of value in maybe thinking of factions as distinct from splats, like, that Team Oblivion or Team Hell or Team Realm is bigger than the Exalt types traditionally associated with them. I'm not sure if standardized terms like "Iron Faction" does more to usefully allow this or to reify what, after all, should be a fairly broad spectrum of ideological banners to flock to, though. Which works for those heavily organized splats. Solars and Lunars were predominately about freedom and coming from a variety of backgrounds. They're individuals, and their individual motivations outweigh the needs or demands of a single faction, and they end up having the power to back that up. Maybe this is a (late) 2e thing but when did it people start lumping those two, Solars in particular, into the same boat with every other member of their respective splat? It boggles my mind..
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# ? May 31, 2013 05:00 |
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Oligopsony posted:I think there's a lot of value in maybe thinking of factions as distinct from splats, like, that Team Oblivion or Team Hell or Team Realm is bigger than the Exalt types traditionally associated with them. I'm not sure if standardized terms like "Iron Faction" does more to usefully allow this or to reify what, after all, should be a fairly broad spectrum of ideological banners to flock to, though. I'm actually curious to see how the Realm/Immaculate Order will view the Exigents and the gods who create them. If the Exigent is the product of a god loyal to the Realm, maybe they'll have the right to be allotted worship or on the Isle? If they're the creation of a god who opposes the Order, the Dragon-Blooded will be sent to beat them up until they acquiesce?
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# ? May 31, 2013 05:03 |
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You know, I hope that the writers have enough time to playtest and make a good book. I think that's the big difference on E2 and E1. I didn't have so many out the gate problems with E1. I imagine that's because the game was in development for a WHILE (like from before the first ad in Hunter or in part at least). I don't know how long the whole system's been in development (I'd guess maybe like since shards?) but I'm really hoping that there's time for the team to make the game a good game, including dealing with the baggage of issuing of unironic pornography as an april fool's joke. But the even worse baggage of a lot of bad expectations for the system.
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# ? May 31, 2013 05:05 |
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Mexcillent posted:You know, I hope that the writers have enough time to playtest and make a good book. I think that's the big difference on E2 and E1. Actually, a lot of development went on during late 1e and into 2e's design, Power Combat most notably. And no joke, The Autocthonians might as well have been a playtest for 2e. It had all the precursor mechanics to Excellencies tied up in their charms and Anima power. Shame they didn't make modules a game-wide thing. I would have liked that more versus fifty billion (permanent) charm upgrades with huge bloated trees.
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# ? May 31, 2013 05:10 |
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GreenMetalSun posted:I'm actually curious to see how the Realm/Immaculate Order will view the Exigents and the gods who create them. Depends on how the rewrite the Immaculate Faith, as is though Exigents fit nicely into the definition of an Anthema, power stolen from a God, subverting the "proper" order of reincarnation. Exigents would, without any changes, be put to death just to keep the Immaculate Faith's message very clear.
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# ? May 31, 2013 05:14 |
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Strength of Many posted:Shame they didn't make modules a game-wide thing. I would have liked that more versus fifty billion (permanent) charm upgrades with huge bloated trees. Seconded. I get why the modules didn't worl because there's a few 1e ones that are infamous but they finished 1e with the Autocthonian Crusade and that was pretty drat good module work. I wish they had done that as a model for Exalted2. Was there a quality drop in and around 2008-09?
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# ? May 31, 2013 05:18 |
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Strength of Many posted:Which works for those heavily organized splats. GreenMetalSun posted:I'm actually curious to see how the Realm/Immaculate Order will view the Exigents and the gods who create them. (Of course, the Incarna are totally legitimate gods as far as the Immaculate Philosophy is concerned, but.) Mexcillent posted:You know, I hope that the writers have enough time to playtest and make a good book. I think that's the big difference on E2 and E1.
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# ? May 31, 2013 05:18 |
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One more Lunars snippet for the night, folks. For all the bad in 1e, there was a hell of alot of good too. But that can be said of 2e as well. e: forgot one! MEETING THE BEAST Strength of Many fucked around with this message at 05:48 on May 31, 2013 |
# ? May 31, 2013 05:41 |
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My only problem is I don't want Lunars to be EXLUSIVELY "tribal Conan's or Pocahontas". It should cover basically anyone who thrives on survival, from undiscovered tribes to outlaws to mortal Dynasts rejected by their families.
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# ? May 31, 2013 06:08 |
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PrinceRandom posted:My only problem is I don't want Lunars to be EXLUSIVELY "tribal Conan's or Pocahontas". It should cover basically anyone who thrives on survival, from undiscovered tribes to outlaws to mortal Dynasts rejected by their families. I don't think anyone wants (or expects) a return to 1e (or 2e) Lunars.
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# ? May 31, 2013 06:10 |
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PrinceRandom posted:My only problem is I don't want Lunars to be EXLUSIVELY "tribal Conan's or Pocahontas". Good job Exalted fanbase. Good job. E: Anything but Indians, please. Anything but Pocahontas. Mexcillent fucked around with this message at 06:16 on May 31, 2013 |
# ? May 31, 2013 06:14 |
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Mexcillent posted:Good job Exalted fanbase. Good job. Did you miss the part where I said Exclusively? Conan's not an Indian and I led off with him. It seems that from all the side bars that every one brings up that they will focus on a tribal society, and I would like for the concept of survival against conventional civilization to be portrayed in other fashions also. Ya know, like how I said tribal or Dynast? Just like a Solar can exalt in any situation and from any background? Like the Theme of the Lunars is supposed to be survival, stewardship, and self-sufficiency? PrinceRandom fucked around with this message at 06:39 on May 31, 2013 |
# ? May 31, 2013 06:19 |
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PrinceRandom posted:My only problem is I don't want Lunars to be EXLUSIVELY "tribal Conan's or Pocahontas". It should cover basically anyone who thrives on survival, from undiscovered tribes to outlaws to mortal Dynasts rejected by their families. This seems relevant to your post Holden posted:I'll get this out of the way so it doesn't immediately tackle the thread off a cliff and into a bottomless pit:
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# ? May 31, 2013 06:24 |
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QuintessenceX posted:This seems relevant to your post oh jesus, that pile of retarded.
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# ? May 31, 2013 06:50 |
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Strength of Many posted:oh jesus, that pile of retarded. Yeah. It's pretty telling that the fanbase went off on the admittedly awful rape stuff and not the really awful "Inkas = Some Form of Savage" thing. Realistically as a gamer of color it never comes out well. Even when people are well-meaning. E: It might be puzzling to you why the idea of Inkas being "savages" is patently pretty dumb. I don't know what to tell you other than read 1491 or something.
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# ? May 31, 2013 06:52 |
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PrinceRandom posted:Did you miss the part where I said Exclusively? My issue is why you think Pocahontas fits. Like, you are aware she was a captive, enslaved by an expansionist power? I don't see how that goes against any of her exclusivity unless you weirdly think about Indians as being savages in the broad sense. If you're confused, here's the society Pocahontas came from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsenacommacah Mexcillent fucked around with this message at 06:57 on May 31, 2013 |
# ? May 31, 2013 06:54 |
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Mexcillent posted:My issue is why you think Pocahontas fits. How can there be so much that you don't know? You~ don't~ know~
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# ? May 31, 2013 06:57 |
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Mexcillent posted:Yeah. It's pretty telling that the fanbase went off on the admittedly awful rape stuff and not the really awful "Inkas = Some Form of Savage" thing. It reeks of 'presumptuous mid-20s-to-early-30s white dudes writes about non-European cultures and peoples from history'. Calling them savages, much less impoverished savages, is... yeah. Then he uses Native Americans as another example.
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# ? May 31, 2013 06:57 |
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Mexcillent posted:My issue is why you think Pocahontas fits. It looks they took more thought than and still just ended up with "Well obviously since they have a different societal structure and inhabit a geographical location that isn't the same as ours than us they want to tear everything up and kill poo poo". That seems lazy and has a disturbing implication that somehow tribal societies (or really just non Western or East Asian) are just implicitly violent and envious, like they just can't survive unless they are violent raiders.
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# ? May 31, 2013 06:57 |
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Attorney at Funk posted:How can there be so much that you don't know? I don't know gross racial stereotypes?
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# ? May 31, 2013 06:58 |
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Mexcillent posted:I don't know gross racial stereotypes? No, I was- it's not important
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# ? May 31, 2013 06:58 |
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PrinceRandom posted:It looks they took more thought than and still just ended up with "Well obviously since they have a different societal structure and inhabit a geographical location that isn't the same as ours than us they want to tear everything up and kill poo poo". That seems lazy and has a disturbing implication that somehow tribal societies (or really just non Western or East Asian) are just implicitly violent and envious, like they just can't survive unless they are violent raiders. "Raiding" and "Trade" were difficult to distinguish in the cultures that the 1e version of Creation's "barbarians" was patterned on. I don't know, I'm still pretty curious about why Pocahontas followed Conan in your statement. E: a brief reference - http://www.drabruzzi.com/ABRUZZI_Ecology%20of%20Ethnic%20Interactions%20in%20New%20Mexico_1700_1850.pdf Mexcillent fucked around with this message at 07:05 on May 31, 2013 |
# ? May 31, 2013 06:59 |
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Attorney at Funk posted:No, I was- it's not important Wait...I got it now.
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# ? May 31, 2013 07:01 |
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... I think we are arguing the same thing, but we are going around each other. I'm hoping they get away from the "Noble Savage" trope and the "Muscly Norseman" trope. Both of them have a "Heart of Darkness" feel. Like just because they aren't apart of the domninant civilization, their life is an automatic struggle to survive. Edit: I never called anyone a savage, did I? I don't recall that. That's the opposite of what I'm meaning to say... PrinceRandom fucked around with this message at 07:11 on May 31, 2013 |
# ? May 31, 2013 07:09 |
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PrinceRandom posted:... I think we are arguing the same thing, but we are going around each other. I'm hoping they get away from the "Noble Savage" trope and the "Muscly Norseman" trope. Both of them have a "Heart of Darkness" feel. Like just because they aren't apart of the domninant civilization, their life is an automatic struggle to survive. I don't really care, as long as this poo poo isn't done in tropes. At all. Ever. E: And, yes, the whole point of "barbarians" in Creation is that since they live apart from the dominant imperial civilization, if they live in the sphere of that civilization, they are engaged in a struggle to survive. Not because of a state of nature, but because the Realm sees them as chattel slavery labor pools/problems in their calculations. Mexcillent fucked around with this message at 07:17 on May 31, 2013 |
# ? May 31, 2013 07:10 |
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Mexcillent posted:I don't really care, as long as this poo poo isn't done in tropes. At all. Ever. That is also my hope, hence my hope that they don't take the splat that has the connotation of "Savage" or "primal" and make the only representatives of that splat come from non-Western societies. They should either broaden the splats connotation or include other cultures. Edit: I used Pocahontas because I was thinking of the Disney movie when I was thinking of the "Noble Savage" trope as something to avoid. I am sad to say that I really don't know much about her historical life at all.
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# ? May 31, 2013 07:14 |
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I mentioned offhand to my friends that I wanted to eventually play an octopus-themed Lunar and learned that in Dreams of the First Age an octopus totem Lunar happened to be the husband of an evil transhumanist Solar who knew Kimbery charms, had tentacles on her face, and was literally named "K'Tula".
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# ? May 31, 2013 07:19 |
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Mexcillent posted:E: And, yes, the whole point of "barbarians" in Creation is that since they live apart from the dominant imperial civilization, if they live in the sphere of that civilization, they are engaged in a struggle to survive. Not because of a state of nature, but because the Realm sees them as labor pools/problems in their calculations. This part is what I was hoping they would stick to if they went with the "barbarian" theme. More like they are fighting the Greeks "You aren't us so you are a barbarian" than the stupid 1920-1950 "savage romanticism" definition.
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# ? May 31, 2013 07:19 |
PrinceRandom posted:That is also my hope, hence my hope that they don't take the splat that has the connotation of "Savage" or "primal" and make the only representatives of that splat come from non-Western societies. They should either broaden the splats connotation or include other cultures.
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# ? May 31, 2013 07:19 |
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Ferrinus posted:I mentioned offhand to my friends that I wanted to eventually play an octopus-themed Lunar and learned that in Dreams of the First Age an octopus totem Lunar happened to be the husband of an evil transhumanist Solar who knew Kimbery charms, had tentacles on her face, and was literally named "K'Tula". I often wonder how much awful stuff in Exalted comes from the fact that writers put any inane crap into the game they wanted.
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# ? May 31, 2013 07:20 |
Mexcillent posted:I often wonder how much awful stuff in Exalted comes from the fact that writers put any inane crap into the game they wanted.
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# ? May 31, 2013 07:23 |
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PrinceRandom posted:This part is what I was hoping they would stick to if they went with the "barbarian" theme. More like they are fighting the Greeks "You aren't us so you are a barbarian" than the stupid 1920-1950 "savage romanticism" definition. That's.. how barbarians were defined in 2e?? So yes i'm hoping they stick with that. 'You aren't from the Realm so you are a savage.' Which would,incidentally, include places like oh.. the Confederation of Rivers. Nexus and Great Forks most notably. And Lookshy I guess. Nessus posted:I don't think any of the 'barbarian' cultures I can recall had much Native American styling, unless you want to include the Dragon Kings. The Marukani might've had some Plains influence but they also seemed like they could be 'like' Eurasian steppe nomads. Other than that, and leaving aside the "settled" places like the Haltans, there were... the icewalkers? uh, the Linowan Nation? They're like 1:1 native americans, including all of the tree murder. Dragon Kings are almost strictly mesoamerican and ancient world in feel. Marukani are a bit more generic with touches of Steppes people iirc. Surprise you mentioned Halta but forgot their chief number one enemy. Strength of Many fucked around with this message at 07:29 on May 31, 2013 |
# ? May 31, 2013 07:25 |
Strength of Many posted:uh, the Linowan Nation? They're like 1:1 native americans, including all of the tree murder. Dragon Kings are almost strictly mesoamerican and ancient world in feel. Marukani are a bit more generic with touches of Steppes people iirc. e: SEE?? I guess I just never gave a poo poo about that direction book or was poor when it came out.
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# ? May 31, 2013 07:29 |
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Nessus posted:I just realized I actually never read a writeup of the Linowan, except for 'and these are the guys the Haltans have feuds with.' Sounds like I'm not missing a bunch though. They chop down trees their chief god hates, they're buddy-buddy with the Realm, the entire Tepet Legion Massacre had its catalyst in the Linowans begging them to put down the Bull before he tries to invade them. Among other things they also make a lot of loving long boats to navigate the rivers in their homeland, don't have a currency system but instead use a weird barter one, treat the Scarlet Empress as a pseudo-divine patron figure, aaannnddd they burn Haltans alive in hollowed trees or something ridiculous like that. They. Really. Hate. Haltans. e: they also have a weird skin/hair tone closer to trees, like the Haltans but not green. That's all I can remember off hand anyway.
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# ? May 31, 2013 07:31 |
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Huh. I suppose I haven't read my 2ed books in quite a while. All the snipets that people were posting were about Animism and tribal raids, and that seems like a narrow concept to base an entire splat around.
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# ? May 31, 2013 07:33 |
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PrinceRandom posted:Huh. I suppose I haven't read my 2ed books in quite a while. All the snipets that people were posting were about Animism and tribal raids, and that seems like a narrow concept to base an entire splat around. Dude.. The entire setting is animist as gently caress. What do you think Little Gods are?
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# ? May 31, 2013 07:33 |
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Linowans own. Halta is awful. More Linowans.
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# ? May 31, 2013 07:33 |
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# ? May 28, 2024 15:23 |
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Strength of Many posted:Dude.. The entire setting is animist as gently caress. What do you think Little Gods are? I'm dumb. I was thinking spirit tattoos and dream-walking. Which now that I think on, could be very cool powers to explore further. I'm an idiot who hasn't read the source material in a long time. I blame my tablet breaking for that... But I did get linked to new things to read on a subject that I've been obsessing on recently, so thanks thread! PrinceRandom fucked around with this message at 07:43 on May 31, 2013 |
# ? May 31, 2013 07:38 |