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ultrafilter posted:I notice that in the KMS run you occasionally open up the roulette wheel and cancel out of it. Is that just to give yourself a breather, or is there some other purpose? It helps turn around way faster.
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May 24, 2015 02:02
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Cyphoderus posted:I was just going to say, the three regular enemies are named Normal, Gang, and Bandana in that. The elite enemy is called Normal Leader. I can't figure out what the small text above their names is supposed to mean, though. Thank you. I've addressed the basic controls in the very first update, you should check the tutorial links in the OP in case you missed it. God Hand isn't a very technical game compared to say, DMC4, it's actually really straightforward, you use the Right stick to dodge but this also serves as cancelling all your moves and that's pretty much what I've been doing. Although yeah, I still need to write a proper explanation about the Techniques screen, like how to equip moves, the moves property, and all that. All should be explained in the next tl;dr text update, don't worry. ultrafilter posted:I notice that in the KMS run you occasionally open up the roulette wheel and cancel out of it. Is that just to give yourself a breather, or is there some other purpose? Like people said, it slows down time so I get more time to think and react about what's going on, who is going after me, what I can do next, etc. and I also do that to target enemies as well as turn around faster. You press the L1 button to do a 180° but this is incredibly unsafe, you have no control of Gene during the whole animation and you should never turn around when enemies are up in your face anyway otherwise you'll get hit because for some reason when you do turn around with enemies near you, Gene's hitbox becomes huge and you become vulnerable to grabs and getting punched in the face.
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May 24, 2015 02:25
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Completely forgot that Masafumi Takada did the soundtrack for this one! No wonder it's so memorable. This game is good, this LP is good, and your soundtrack for the KMS videos is wonderful. I loved the... sneaky edits in the G+S fight introduction.
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May 24, 2015 08:44
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I forgot how amazingly goofy and fun this game is; and watching you utterly dominate it is awesome!
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May 24, 2015 16:09
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Great LP. Are you ever going to use some experimental move setups, like guard breakers/launchers/juggles in the square combo? I always had fun with those setups, even if they weren't the most efficient. I had one setup I used against Azel/Gene that had no guard breakers in it. The square combo went something like Stomping Fist > Rocket Uppercut > Double Spin Kick > Step Back Kick > Reverse Hell Kick > Forearm Smash. It was pretty awesome when you get them dizzy against the wall at the start of the combo. Also, thank you for explaining just how awesome the default moveset is. I spent years telling people it has everything you need, but bad players would insist it sucks because it doesn't have drunken twist/hand plant kick/multi-hitting punches
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May 24, 2015 16:29
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gigglefeimer posted:Great LP. Are you ever going to use some experimental move setups, like guard breakers/launchers/juggles in the square combo? I always had fun with those setups, even if they weren't the most efficient. I had one setup I used against Azel/Gene that had no guard breakers in it. The square combo went something like Stomping Fist > Rocket Uppercut > Double Spin Kick > Step Back Kick > Reverse Hell Kick > Forearm Smash. It was pretty awesome when you get them dizzy against the wall at the start of the combo. Thanks! Yes of course, I got that covered in the next KMS run videos where most boss fights are actually combo videos, I change moveset every 30 seconds or so to show some cool and practical mixups I came up with. I haven't done that a lot in the NG+ videos yet because enemies don't have a ton of HP so I don't want to kill them that fast. Something that always bugged me when watching people playing god hand is how they're so reluctant to experiment and rather stick with the same moveset throughout the whole game instead, at least until they find the broken moves like drunken twist, chain yanker and high side kick wall spam then it's full cheese from there. You have this playthrough on youtube where some guy beat the game using just 3 moves, I think he's some sort of robot or probably brain dead because this is really pathetic to watch, you see him spam drunken twist > mach speed jab > guard break > mach speed jab, in this order and repeat it ad nauseam for 20 videos straight. Like what's the point, how do you even have fun pressing the same 3 buttons over and over. Same thing in Bayonetta where you can PKP spam or in DMC with killer bee/stinger spam.
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May 24, 2015 17:04
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Yeah, I'm not sure how that can even be much fun to play. I mean in a thing with RPG elements where there's a bunch of investment in a build like Bloodborne it makes sense to just stick with what you've made yourself good at but when there's no penalty to switching your poo poo up you really should be doing so whenever the situation makes sense.
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May 24, 2015 17:10
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mkob posted:Something that always bugged me when watching people playing god hand is how they're so reluctant to experiment and rather stick with the same moveset throughout the whole game instead, at least until they find the broken moves like drunken twist, chain yanker and high side kick wall spam then it's full cheese from there. You have this playthrough on youtube where some guy beat the game using just 3 moves, I think he's some sort of robot or probably brain dead because this is really pathetic to watch, you see him spam drunken twist > mach speed jab > guard break > mach speed jab, in this order and repeat it ad nauseam for 20 videos straight. Like what's the point, how do you even have fun pressing the same 3 buttons over and over. Same thing in Bayonetta where you can PKP spam or in DMC with killer bee/stinger spam. The problem is that God Hand doesn't discourage players from playing in the most boring way possible. That's how you get Hard KMS youtube videos where they lure single enemies away from groups to fight one-on-one as much as possible and spam punch>punch>guard breaker ad nauseum. That, and the game had a reputation where it was considered hard, so fans of the game justified those cheap tactics to themselves because "oh, it's not possible to fight groups of enemies with the default moveset" I remember one video where a guy used god hand unleashes on every wave of the pyramid, and left the last enemy remaining to yes man kablaam up to a full gauge. And he was considered a good player by many people.
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May 24, 2015 17:15
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The worst videos were by Saur, which is funny given how in depth and good his W101 videos are. All he did was spam Yes Ma'am.
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May 24, 2015 17:25
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One of the neatest things I've noticed about God Hand is once you hit a certain skill level it's incredibly easy to pick up on things you see on youtube. I always played a certain way, but seeing these videos, it's pretty much always going to affect how I play the game in the future.
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May 24, 2015 17:33
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notZaar posted:The worst videos were by Saur, which is funny given how in depth and good his W101 videos are. All he did was spam Yes Ma'am. Yeah I'd argue that Saur isn't that good at video games like Brea, Donguri, ChaserTech, Bloward, etc. (some really good DMC3/4 players), but what he can't do in term of gameplay and technical prowess button mashing wanking skill, he compensates with knowledge. Also regarding his God Hand videos they are way over 10 years old so it's not really fair to poo poo on them, the guy is a pioneer of crazy games and worked on a bunch of tutorials so I still have some respect for what he did at the time.
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May 24, 2015 17:36
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One thing I don't think you have mentioned is exactly what tauting does in this game. From what I've seen in other games made by platinum/clover, taunting usually make enemies more aggressive, but makes them susceptible to damage. Is it the same here?
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May 24, 2015 18:11
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mkob posted:Something that always bugged me when watching people playing god hand is how they're so reluctant to experiment and rather stick with the same moveset throughout the whole game instead, at least until they find the broken moves like drunken twist, chain yanker and high side kick wall spam then it's full cheese from there. You have this playthrough on youtube where some guy beat the game using just 3 moves, I think he's some sort of robot or probably brain dead because this is really pathetic to watch, you see him spam drunken twist > mach speed jab > guard break > mach speed jab, in this order and repeat it ad nauseam for 20 videos straight. Like what's the point, how do you even have fun pressing the same 3 buttons over and over. Same thing in Bayonetta where you can PKP spam or in DMC with killer bee/stinger spam. Basically God Hand has the same amount of potential for stylish action as a DMC game, but people interpret playing it as a game about efficiency similar to Ninja Gaiden.
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May 24, 2015 18:42
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MatteusTheCorrupt posted:One thing I don't think you have mentioned is exactly what tauting does in this game. My bad, I'll explain now. I skipped over it because there's not a lot to it mechanic-wise, taunting enemies is more handicapping than anything else actually. Gene says a couple different lines each time (Boring, Ahah!, Bring it on, Time for a little fun) and he either points his finger in front of him or taps his arm. Enemies become berserk when taunted, their faces turn red and steam comes out of their ears, they get a huge damage boost and start hitting like trucks (I don't know the exact damage data, something like 20% to double the damage they usually deal) and they also start dodging and countering you more often I think; they're just more aggressive than usual. There's two ways to turn enemies berserk, by taunting them or by hitting them a lot (this usually happens against airborne opponents, they'll turn red and backflip in the air to break out of your combo, kind of similar to how enemies in Bayonetta 2 react and combo-break you when attacked from the front.) Taunting has two uses: 1) You aggro an enemy from far way, you can pull dudes one by one by positioning yourself properly;  2) You get a tiny bit of God Hand meter back (the data I have from the JP guide book says "12" on level 1-3 and "6" on level DIE, I have no idea what this number is supposed to mean or how much god hand meter you have to begin with). Here's the God Hand page from the guide book anyway with a partial translation:  4. Tension meter refill By damaging an enemy - Jab (0.8) * - Other normal attacks (1.5~3.0) * (see 5 for "*") - Yes Man Kablaam * - Stomp * - Pummel * - Suplex * - ??? - Stinger (0.5 x number of times kicked+1) - Cobra Twist (1.0 x number of times strangled+1) - Punishment - Spanking (0.5 x number of times punched+1) - Gorilla Throw - Belze Pummel (0.5 x number finger rotations) 5. *Fill rate varies for counter hits depending on difficulty, 4.0 level 1-3 1.0 level DIE 6. Taking damage from enemies Fill rate = Damage / Player maxHPx10 7. *Fill rate maximum is 10.0 8: Taunting enemies Lvl1-3 - 12.0 Die - 6.0 9: Up-dodging # times dodged Fill once = 1.5 multiple times = 0.5 Up-dodging 10. You get God Hand meter back +1.5 the first time and +0.5 any subsequent times mkob fucked around with this message at 16:05 on May 25, 2015 |
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May 24, 2015 18:47
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God Hand meter is probably 100 for full. So 12 is 12% and 6 is 6%. I've only played this game a couple of times though so that's just a guess.
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May 24, 2015 19:31
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There are powerups that extend your God Hand meter, so I doubt it's percentages. I think there's just some notion of points, and you get 6-12 for taunting depending on the difficulty level.
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May 24, 2015 19:33
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mkob posted:Yeah I'd argue that Saur isn't that good at video games like Brea, Donguri, ChaserTech, Bloward, etc. (some really good DMC3/4 players), but what he can't do in term of gameplay and technical prowess button mashing wanking skill, he compensates with knowledge. Also regarding his God Hand videos they are way over 10 years old so it's not really fair to poo poo on them, the guy is a pioneer of crazy games and worked on a bunch of tutorials so I still have some respect for what he did at the time. I don't want to knock Saur because he's way more dedicated and skillful than I'll ever be, but even at the time I could tell he way being extremely safe and uncreative with his combo videos.
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May 24, 2015 19:33
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ArclightBorealis posted:I think the way I interpreted that behavior in God Hand's case, is that because enemies are much more aggressive than your typical fodder in DMC or Bayo and don't give a poo poo about waiting their turn or staying put off screen, I can see why some players would rely on the same setup for the entire game (I know I did when I first played) because they don't want to risk loving things up with something they haven't practiced. Similar to something like Ninja Gaiden. A lot of NG especially on higher difficulties is using a lot of the same few moves like flying swallows, izuna drops, downward slashes from a wall jump in a corner, Ultimate Techniques (plus Obliteration Techniques in NGII's case), and just about any other moves that grants invincibility frames in order to deal with groups quickly because there are serious penalties for loving around. This is definitely a part of it. Also a lot of the moves that are unlocked in later stages are actually downgrades from the moves you already have, so that discourages people from experimenting. In the end, though, it's about player skill and what people are comfortable with doing. You don't get any better at the game by using god hand/roulettes, and you're not going to want to get creative when you're struggling to play normally, especially when there are so many easy "outs"
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May 24, 2015 19:56
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I have to admit, I'm glad you're LP'ing this, because I don't think I could ever play it: The camera would just drive me INSANE. It's glued to the back of Gene's head and if the angle is a single degree over 90 I'd be amazed. Aside from being annoying I think I'd legitimately get motion sick. Does look like a really fun concept, though.
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May 24, 2015 20:20
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mkob posted:Something that always bugged me when watching people playing god hand is how they're so reluctant to experiment and rather stick with the same moveset throughout the whole game instead, at least until they find the broken moves like drunken twist, chain yanker and high side kick wall spam then it's full cheese from there. You have this playthrough on youtube where some guy beat the game using just 3 moves, I think he's some sort of robot or probably brain dead because this is really pathetic to watch, you see him spam drunken twist > mach speed jab > guard break > mach speed jab, in this order and repeat it ad nauseam for 20 videos straight. Like what's the point, how do you even have fun pressing the same 3 buttons over and over. Same thing in Bayonetta where you can PKP spam or in DMC with killer bee/stinger spam. I'm super average at these games (Stubborn my way through Normal with wildly varying degrees of competence) but goofing off with as many things as possible at least is still fun to me. Sure I still fall back on "Okay I KNOW PKP will work for this" type stuff a lot but at least I'm screwing around with weapons I'm not so great with because it's a giant loving hammer/mace things that shoot fire and ice, I will MAKE this work! Your stuff is a joy to watch because it's not just an informative playthrough of somebody dismantling the game, but it's one where you also take the time to make it look cool. Like ensuring after your beatdown, gold and silver die at the same time, and then doing it again on the KMS video. People WANT to be better after seeing that, more than they would seeing the Nth glitch/cheese speeding through a stage skipping as many enemies as possible. The latter can be drat impressive, and I'm amazed at some of the more notable examples like OOT Speedruns, but it seems my viewing tastes run towards "normal gameplay" dismantling when it comes to a show. "This mother fucker listed their Megaman 1 speedrun as no glitch abuse, so WHY ARE THEY WARPING THROUGH ALL THE WALLS  "
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May 24, 2015 22:30
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Section Z posted:I'm super average at these games (Stubborn my way through Normal with wildly varying degrees of competence) but goofing off with as many things as possible at least is still fun to me. Sure I still fall back on "Okay I KNOW PKP will work for this" type stuff a lot but at least I'm screwing around with weapons I'm not so great with because it's a giant loving hammer/mace things that shoot fire and ice, I will MAKE this work! Oh yeah, I'm totally the same. Glitch Runs can be fun, but not nearly as fun as seeing someone break a game in twain by its own rules.
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May 24, 2015 22:40
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Choco1980 posted:Oh yeah, I'm totally the same. Glitch Runs can be fun, but not nearly as fun as seeing someone break a game in twain by its own rules. Ehh, it depends on the game for me. It turns out the Mega Man games are super boring to watch (for me) unless you're glitching them out.
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May 24, 2015 23:04
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Update #6 Let's have a look at more gameplay mechanics  For clarification's sake regarding my previous post about taunting, here's how it works: Prompt-cancel Found this one by accident when messing around with a stunned demon (see video below). I already knew that you could cancel a kick attack with a pummel, but I've never experimented or looked further into it. This trick is a variant of Stomping Fist / Heel Drop into Pummel that you might have seen in older God Hand videos by JP players. This is by far the most and arguably only real technical trick of God Hand since it requires quasi frame-perfect timing. You perform a "prompt-cancel" by pressing the Circle button against a stunned opponent right before your hit connects. This is a frame-perfect trick and the timing is incredibly tight, the window being ~2 or 4 frames tops. To me it feels easier to perform a prompt cancel on emulator since there's a bit of lag between your inputs so in a way you have more frames to work with, if it makes any sense. You can perform a prompt-cancel with pretty much every moves in the game (except a few exceptions where you can't cancel the recovery animation of said move, e.g. Barrel Roll Kick.) Links provided below are videos: Prompt-cancel Poke of God on Demon When performing a prompt attack, Gene is locked into the animation (whether it is a suplex, pummel, stinger, poke of god, etc.), however if you punch or kick before triggering the prompt, then your attack will carry its "momentum". This makes more sense using Charged Punch and High Side Kick: Charged Punch prompt-cancel High Side Kick prompt-cancel But wait, there's more. The examples above are done followed by a Pummel, but what would happen on a Suplex prompt instead? Quick Charged Punch prompt-cancel suplex Watch it a couple of times and see if you can understand what's going on. Doing a quick Charged Punch will simply juggle enemies, not send them flying up in the air. In this video, the two enemies around Gene got juggled even though I triggered a suplex. Now let's see what happens with a launch move instead of charged punch: Palm Smash prompt-cancel suplex It's hard to see but the enemies around Gene got launched, look at the radar in the top right corner when I trigger the suplex. This prompt-cancel stuff is pretty nifty and can lead to some really odd setups. mkob fucked around with this message at 16:12 on May 25, 2015 |
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May 25, 2015 15:47
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Taunting also increases the difficulty meter, doesn't it? Which reminds me, I read somewhere that God Hand runs on a heavily modified Resident Evil 4 engine. I don't know if that's true or not but the game does share some similarities. Concordat fucked around with this message at 22:40 on May 25, 2015 |
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May 25, 2015 22:37
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Concordat posted:Taunting also increases the difficulty meter, doesn't it? Yes but only on Easy and Normal since there's a dynamic difficulty meter that either goes up when you successfully dodge attacks, hit enemies and taunt, and it goes down when you get hit or use the roulette move called Grovel. God Hand doesn't run on the same engine as RE4, it runs on Okami's. Now whether or not RE4 runs on Okami's engine too, I've no idea. 
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May 25, 2015 22:55
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mkob posted:God Hand doesn't run on the same engine as RE4, it runs on Okami's. Now whether or not RE4 runs on Okami's engine too, I've no idea. Wait, Okami?  I'm having trouble thinking of a game that plays and looks less like God Hand and it's pretty difficult! I guess they're both third-person 3D games?
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May 25, 2015 23:09
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Wait, Okami? Maybe I'm misreading your post but I think you're confusing actual gameplay with the way a video game was programmed using a game engine. Antichamber, Asura's Wrath, Drakengard 3, Alpha Protocol, DmC, the Batman series, the Borderlands series, the Gears of War series, the Mass Effect series, etc. were all created using Unreal Engine 3 and yet they're all very different games, with different gameplay, aesthetic, performances, etc. so in regard to God Hand and Okami it's the same thing, they might share the same engine, the same programming groundwork, and yet the two games are nothing alike in term of gameplay mechanics and graphics.
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May 26, 2015 00:31
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Wait, Okami?  The engine a game is built on can mean very little to it's gameplay.
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May 26, 2015 00:31
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Yeah at that point you're just talking about how the game processes really base-level things. That said different engines are generally better for different things even outside the obvious.
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May 26, 2015 00:52
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Rigged Death Trap posted:
Yes, I'm aware of this. I mean, for example Ocarina of Time uses a heavily-modified version of the engine for Super Mario 64. I was mostly pointing out that there doesn't seem to be much in the way of overlap between Okami and God Hand beyond fundamental stuff like loading assets, rendering, handling user input, etc. -- so very little is "done for you" compared to using an engine and associated code that's closer to the game you want. Kind of like, say, trying to make an FPS in Unity without making use of all of the templates, assets, and so on they've already built for making FPSes.
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May 26, 2015 01:11
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Yes, I'm aware of this. I mean, for example Ocarina of Time uses a heavily-modified version of the engine for Super Mario 64. I was mostly pointing out that there doesn't seem to be much in the way of overlap between Okami and God Hand beyond fundamental stuff like loading assets, rendering, handling user input, etc. -- so very little is "done for you" compared to using an engine and associated code that's closer to the game you want. Kind of like, say, trying to make an FPS in Unity without making use of all of the templates, assets, and so on they've already built for making FPSes. In many cases that's enough reason to reuse code. If it works well, does everything (or most) you need and does it fast then why not? Especially when much of the team is familiar with how it works, then using it or even modifying it is a cinch. And that base level stuff actually accounts for quite a bit, so having it done gives you time to concentrate on more important thing like how enemies react to the Ball Buster. Rigged Death Trap fucked around with this message at 01:25 on May 26, 2015 |
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May 26, 2015 01:22
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Rigged Death Trap posted:In many cases that's enough reason to reuse code. If it works well, does everything (or most) you need and does it fast then why not?  Clover Studios made God Hand. I'd forgotten that. Okay, yeah, then prior experience counts for more than basically anything else here. Sorry about the digression. Let's get back to talking about the game, shall we?
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May 26, 2015 01:31
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No problem. To change topic, here's a God Hand trailer from Tokyo Game Show 2006 done in Touhou MMD from nico nico douga and a spot-on review of the game from Amazon.com by a devout Christian thinking that the game being called "God Hand" was about spreading the love gospel of Christianity (not).
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May 26, 2015 02:09
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That's quite an avatar 
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May 26, 2015 02:20
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This is amazing.
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May 26, 2015 02:24
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mkob posted:No problem. To change topic, here's a God Hand trailer from Tokyo Game Show 2006 done in Touhou MMD from nico nico douga and a spot-on review of the game from Amazon.com by a devout Christian thinking that the game being called "God Hand" was about spreading the love gospel of Christianity (not).
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May 26, 2015 02:29
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mkob posted:No problem. To change topic, here's a God Hand trailer from Tokyo Game Show 2006 done in Touhou MMD from nico nico douga and a spot-on review of the game from Amazon.com by a devout Christian thinking that the game being called "God Hand" was about spreading the love gospel of Christianity (not). Don't forget the weird commercials. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mp36fk_PhM
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May 26, 2015 02:36
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Hey Mike is the PSN version of God Hand considered a downgrade, i.e ive heard it has input lag and slowdown issues?
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May 26, 2015 09:07
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COBRARocky posted:Hey Mike is the PSN version of God Hand considered a downgrade, i.e ive heard it has input lag and slowdown issues? Yeah the PSN version is kinda poo poo but ok enough if that's the only way for you to play the game (beggars can't be choosers). You get massive frame rate drops when there's SAND onscreen after hitting multiple enemies at once or tripping them like pic related. PS2 > PCSX2 (emulation) > PS3 So like I said the PS3 version has slowdowns all over the place especially when hitting multiple enemies at once, somehow the "dust" or sand effect you see after breaking an object or tripping an enemy makes the PS3 freak the hell out (I've heard that disabling the enemies' health bar in the option menu fixes this issues, although it didn't work for me), some boss fights will lag like crazy (Azel when he performs roulette moves for example), the graphics look like rear end and last but not least there's input delay with your controller. The game is also unplayable if you're from Europe and select 50Hz (I tried to see the differences between PAL and NTSC and I can't believe what Europeans had to go through when playing PS2 games.) PCSX2 has the best graphics since you can tweak everything but there's still input lag/audio issues because emulation isn't perfect and running the game properly depends on the specs of your computer, however there's no slowdowns when "dusting" enemies like you get on PS2 and on the PSN version. You can use save states, change memory cards at will, and record footage with FRAPS or OBS very easily. PS2 is arguably the best version if played on a CRT monitor, though I would assume the PCSX2 version can be considered superior if your PC has really good specs. mkob fucked around with this message at 13:49 on May 26, 2015 |
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May 26, 2015 12:06
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| # ? Jun 9, 2024 03:20 |
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Edmond Dantes posted:Don't forget the weird commercials. I love this, it feels like they forgot they had a commercial to shoot up to the last day before the deadline.
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May 26, 2015 12:39
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