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Junkenstein posted:After Guardians of the galaxy, is that it until Avengers 2? I've quite enjoyed this sort-of quarterly release schedule since Iron Man 3. There's one or two outliers, but yes. The pattern is mostly May-Summer releases.
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Mar 29, 2014 19:33
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Ugly In The Morning posted:
Falcon's such a great part of the movie, the way he flies and the wings retract and spring out is amazing.
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Mar 29, 2014 19:59
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I just got back from the weekend shows here in Taiwan. I didn't notice any localization as I did with Iron Man 3 for those interested about that. I thought this movie was pretty great. Brubaker's run on Captain America that introduced the Winter Soldier was the run that got me into Captain America as a comic book. I was pretty disappointed by the first film, I guess I wasn't disappointed but it was just so bland. This movie was not bland. Right away the movie sets up that Steve Rogers is not just a man out of time, but also out of place. The interactions with him and Sam Wilson(Falcon) are great and when he shows up at a Veterans Affairs Counseling session that Sam works at there's a really nice moment where we as a viewer see just how different war and military service has become. It was a scene that didn't do any of the exposition for you, or even make any sort of statement about it. It's one of those things that growing up watching WW2 movies and hearing about the time period. Sam comments on how he served two tours until his best friend died and it caused him to be disillusioned with the war; and you look at Steve Rogers who kept fighting even harder after his best friend died. Stuff like that really helps you empathize with Captain America as a guy who really doesn't know his role in this new world. Major spoilery stuff: The Hydra reveal was pretty good and I enjoyed how they worked Zola into something resembling his comic book character. I thought it was strange that they were willing to sacrifice him(he was willing to sacrifice himself) to take out Captain America but whatever. I like the actress they used for Maria Hill but her characterization as Fury's protege is all wrong. Black Widow got some decent development, I thought it was strange they didn't have a cameo or even mention where Hawkeye was during all this. I guess they wanted to forget about him a bit to tease a hookup between Cap and Widow. Robert Redford was a great bad guy and the evolution of Hydra was great except that there were a few too many actual soldiers working for them. I liked the idea that Robert Redford and only a few guys on top really knew what was going on, but it played out fine anyway. When the helicarriers first started to launch I was holding my breath "omg, don't tell me there's a hydra logo right on top of the drat thing." thankfully it was a shield logo. The action scenes were all great. Falcon looked really good and the actor showed more personality than Don Cheadle did in Iron Man 2. Good acting by everyone, Robert Redford and SLJ acting with one another worked a lot better than I thought it would. SLJ can really turn it on, and in this movie he did; Redford is a legend and his use in this film was perfect. Really looking forward to Guardians of the Galaxy.
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Mar 29, 2014 21:05
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I found the last couple of Marvel movies (Thor 2 and Iron Man 3) really bland and generic but I thoroughly enjoyed Captain America 2. Sure the politics aren't super-subtle, but the plot is a marked improvement on most superhero movies. I also found the action scenes felt a lot more physical than, say, the end of Iron Man 3 (which I found boring and weightless). The fights in the elevator and the battle against the Winter Soldier on the freeway were pretty neat. The guy above who described the Winter Soldier as being kinda like the terminator was right. Also I thought Chris Evans was fine - he looks the part plus Captain America is a pretty straightforward guy, the role doesn't demand a nuanced performance. Definitely in the top 3 Marvel movies for me.
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Mar 29, 2014 21:54
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What was Samuel L. Jackson's exact quote about knowing Pierce was a bad guy on account that he gave a cheesy rationale after turning down the Nobel Peace Prize?
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Mar 30, 2014 01:02
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Disharmony posted:What was Samuel L. Jackson's exact quote about knowing Pierce was a bad guy on account that he gave a cheesy rationale after turning down the Nobel Peace Prize? I thought it was the exact opposite, I think he meant the story to show that he had no idea that Pierce was a bad guy, and it came as a shock.
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Mar 30, 2014 06:12
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Fury used it as proof that he is right not to trust people, ever. Because when he does, poo poo like that happens.
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Mar 30, 2014 11:09
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Yeah, it was basically to set up the contrast of it all. Because if even a man worthy of a Nobel Prize can turn out to be the bad guy, then who the hell can you trust?
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Mar 30, 2014 11:14
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So wait, the villain's plot is to launch Helicarriers that have software which indicates which members of the population are most likely to be trouble in the future and then kill just those people, millions at a time, all at once, by firing bullets at them from the sky? That's the stupidest thing I ever heard! Mostly I liked this, though, favourite Marvel flick outside of Avengers so far. Falcon's scenes during the climax were ridiculously well-done. Really getting sick of a lot of the Marvel cliches though, especially the glib humour which is always exactly the same in every movie. And they focused too much on the awful SHIELD plot and not the Winter Soldier side of it, which made the climax fall completely flat for me emotionally.
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Mar 30, 2014 20:02
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Bown posted:So wait, the villain's plot is to launch Helicarriers that have software which indicates which members of the population are most likely to be trouble in the future and then kill just those people, millions at a time, all at once, by firing bullets at them from the sky? Kill a bunch of people, including everyone who might be a danger to them in the future, continue to create chaos until the people are ready for an organisation to completely taker over their lives in exchange for safety.
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Mar 30, 2014 20:29
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Bown posted:So wait, the villain's plot is to launch Helicarriers that have software which indicates which members of the population are most likely to be trouble in the future and then kill just those people, millions at a time, all at once, by firing bullets at them from the sky?
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Mar 30, 2014 20:39
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Bown posted:So wait, the villain's plot is to launch Helicarriers that have software which indicates which members of the population are most likely to be trouble in the future and then kill just those people, millions at a time, all at once, by firing bullets at them from the sky? I think the industrial scale murder goes in hand with a takeover of power and an authoritarian government,they are even going to kill the president.Also liked the use of the triskelion as the HQ of shield,symbol of neopaganism and used in certain circles of nazism in europe. hump day bitches! fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Mar 30, 2014 |
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Mar 30, 2014 20:46
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What I disliked with the movies politics is that Cap brings up several issues that are real problems in the world today with freedom/security/surveillance/NSA/detention without sentence etc. However, instead of this being done and justified by the self-proclaimed good guys as it is in the real world, the movie conveniently says that this is the bad guys doings.
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Mar 30, 2014 21:49
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Bown posted:So wait, the villain's plot is to launch Helicarriers that have software which indicates which members of the population are most likely to be trouble in the future and then kill just those people, millions at a time, all at once, by firing bullets at them from the sky? From what I saw of that, I thought that was more like, the initial stage of things. Ie, kill them, turn to the world and say 'yeah, we just did that', and watch them bow in submission exactly how do you compete with 'killed twenty million people at once'. Mind you, that would completely overturn the whole 'people will give up their freedoms for their security', but one could argue they only wanted to go with that up until the point it got them into a position of ultimate power - like three helicarriers capable of killing anyone on the planet evobatman posted:What I disliked with the movies politics is that Cap brings up several issues that are real problems in the world today with freedom/security/surveillance/NSA/detention without sentence etc. The movie is... admittedly mixed on its execution of this, which some would say is a failing, others a strength. After all, Fury tries to justify it, and his general distrust of people, based on 'taking the world as it is' and all that. Cap argues back however that its somewhat self defeating, and certainly not the kind of method that people purporting to be the good guys should use, hence he shoots down the notion of Fury 'salvaging' SHIELD. At the same time, yeah, it does saddle off a lot of the ultimate responsibility behind some of SHIELD's dirtier dealings to HYDRA (including some I brought up by inference earlier), which some could argue detracts from the value of how these sorts of things are applied in the real world, often in terrible ways. Personally? I like to see it as a sort of comparison, though admittedly mostly because I find it amusing. 'If you think this kind of thing is a good idea, then you are the same as evil Nazi scientists.'
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Mar 30, 2014 23:05
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This movie is not a political movie. That doesn't mean it is dumb.
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Mar 31, 2014 15:36
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Baron Bifford posted:This movie is not a political movie. That doesn't mean it is dumb. I haven't seen it, but a serious question: why would a movie that features a character called Captain America, that evokes certain political thrillers (even casting Robert Redford), and that is largely about the same organization that tapped phones (without anyone saying anything, heh) and wanted to start an arms race in The Avengers not be political?
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Mar 31, 2014 15:48
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I liked that essentially did the same thing as the villains, but instead put the onus of change on the instituion
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Mar 31, 2014 15:51
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I went to see this mostly out of a sense of obligation to see all the Marvel movies, because I was expecting all the crashing-car-gunfire action from the trailer to not be my cup of tea. But I really enjoyed all of the action setpieces and scenes. The movie has a lot of heart. Chris Evans and the script together manage to make Cap a character who is noble and kind without also being boring. I'm also impressed by how the secondary characters get to really feel important and necessary, which is something kind of missing from the Avengers movie. The conspiracy plot felt a little out there because it basically relied on technology advanced to the point of magic to work, and the titular Winter Soldier was really a shunted-in sideplot that could've just as easily not been there. Also, Steve's visit to the museum really made me crave a movie about Cap's WWII adventures, but I'm not sure if releasing one now would still be worth it. Also squealed internally at the casual mention of Stephen Strange. edit: and Danny Pudi's cameo! davidspackage fucked around with this message at 16:51 on Mar 31, 2014 |
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Mar 31, 2014 16:01
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While the politics are almost mixed I don't think it's quite as bad as that. Remember that the plan was still to monitor and prevent crime before it happened, which is what Cap was complaining about. Essentially it's the machine from Person of Interest writ large. Hydra were just going to go one step further and eliminate all their threats in one fell swoop. SHIELD were perfectly happy with the application of the machine up to a point. Though being as the machines are armed, it's not hard to see where Fury's 'preventative measures' wouldn't have been so different. Cap realises (as does everyone else by that point) that SHIELD needs to go. Redford was right about tearing down the old to build something new. While the Winter Soldier stuff is maybe shoehorned in there it's clearly the start of an ongoing thread, so I wasn't that bummed out about it. The only thing I didn't like was the unkilling of Fury. I get that he goes out in the worst way, but I kind of liked them upping the stakes like that. I genuinely thought for a good half hour that he was actually dead, and expected that magic man from AGENTS OF SHIELD who brought Coulson back to life to show up. Also, did Gary Shandling get stung by Botox? He's turning into a Dick Tracy villain.
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Mar 31, 2014 17:17
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Sense and Motion posted:I haven't seen it, but a serious question: why would a movie that features a character called Captain America, that evokes certain political thrillers (even casting Robert Redford), and that is largely about the same organization that tapped phones (without anyone saying anything, heh) and wanted to start an arms race in The Avengers not be political? DrVenkman posted:Cap realises (as does everyone else by that point) that SHIELD needs to go. Redford was right about tearing down the old to build something new. Baron Bifford fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Mar 31, 2014 |
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Mar 31, 2014 17:26
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Baron Bifford posted:SHIELD loses respect because it got compromised by the enemy who almost used its own weapons to destroy America. This, naturally, is an unforgivable failure for an organization whose very purpose is too root out shadowy organizations and protect global security. It doesn't mean that all organizations like SHIELD are bad and should be disbanded. America needs spy agencies, and they have to be trustworthy. Yeah, i think SHIELD is generally a good organisation, and everyone will be worse off without them. But it was probably impossible to remove Hydra fully while still having Shield around.
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Mar 31, 2014 17:49
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It's likely that SHIELD will be disbanded and another agency will be established to assume its responsibilities. Perhaps in a future movie they will introduce HAMMER. On another topic, I noticed that in the first Captain America movie, the word "Nazi" is never spoken, and when three German officers appear the camera is angle so that their swastika armbands are not visible. Was this meant to appease German censors? Baron Bifford fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Mar 31, 2014 |
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Mar 31, 2014 18:53
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Baron Bifford posted:On another topic, I noticed that in the first Captain America movie, the word "Nazi" is never spoken, and when three German officers appear the camera is angle so that their swastika armbands are not visible. Was this meant to appease German censors? Erskine namedrops Nazis when he first meets Steve: Abraham Erskine: Do you want to kill Nazis? Steve Rogers: Is this a test? Abraham Erskine: Yes. Steve Rogers: I don't want to kill anyone. I don't like bullies; I don't care where they're from. And then later does it again when they're having their heart-to-heart the night before Steve goes into the vita chamber: Abraham Erskine: [Displaying a wine bottle] This is from Augsburg, my city. So many people forget that the first country the Nazis invaded was their own. As for the armbands, I could have sworn that you see them when the nazis visit Red Skull in his lab. It struck me because I remember it being the only time you see the swastika in the whole movie. This may sound weird, but are you watching the American release? If not, maybe that explains the changes.
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Mar 31, 2014 20:15
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Baron Bifford posted:It's likely that SHIELD will be disbanded and another agency will be established to assume its responsibilities. Perhaps in a future movie they will introduce HAMMER. I think it's so it's not blatant about it. Some people get a little icky when they use a real-world backdrop for something fantastical. I wouldn't be surprised if Marvel didn't want to touch it. Sure everyone KNOWS it's the Nazis, but no one has to say anything.
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Mar 31, 2014 20:15
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They don't do a lot of Nazi stuff, but there is some (a few mentions, clear Nazi officers who confront Schmidt, and of course punchable Hitler) but most of the film, it's Hydra.
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Mar 31, 2014 20:32
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Baron Bifford posted:Without spoiling anything, there is no deep discussion nor are there any allegories for identifiable ideologies or political figures. My rule of thumb is that if a movie is truly political it must offend half the audience, and don't imagine this film offending anyone. The things I mentioned earlier are identifiable under 'ideological' positions (of political figures) within the United States, particularly the wiretapping these days (and surely other stuff in this movie). I haven't seen the movie, but I really cannot imagine an apolitical movie of this sort, regardless of how well or poorly that angle is handled. If somehow this movie isn't political, I don't really see the point of it being a Captain America movie in the first place. What even is the point of a 'Captain America', if that's the case?
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Mar 31, 2014 20:34
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'Captain America is apolitical' is an exceedingly ideological position. All art is political. Best wishes.
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Mar 31, 2014 20:36
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Danger posted:'Captain America is apolitical' is an exceedingly ideological position. All art is political. Best wishes. Not arguing against this. I am talking about the movie being political, not Captain America himself. Edit: Oops, upon re-reading it seems you weren't disagreeing with me.
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Mar 31, 2014 20:37
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Sef! posted:As for the armbands, I could have sworn that you see them when the nazis visit Red Skull in his lab. It struck me because I remember it being the only time you see the swastika in the whole movie. This may sound weird, but are you watching the American release? If not, maybe that explains the changes.
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Mar 31, 2014 20:41
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I retract my earlier post. There is indeed a brief glimpse of a Nazi swastika.Sense and Motion posted:Not arguing against this. I am talking about the movie being political, not Captain America himself. Oh, what the heck, here is my explanation: The only political bit I recall was a brief conversation with Nick Fury regarding SHIELD's new helicarriers. Fury talks vaguely about going around the world preemptively eliminating threats to global security, and Cap doesn't like the idea of "punishment coming before the crime". That's about it. You might have thought that Cap would spend the movie making observations about modern American politics and culture, ask what it means to be a true American, but that's not what he does. He spends the movie talking about trust issues and missing his old WW2 buddies (and beating up HYDRA goons, who don't provide a clear allegory for any modern ideology or group). His character development is all rather personal. Baron Bifford fucked around with this message at 07:48 on Apr 1, 2014 |
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Mar 31, 2014 21:04
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The movie is definitely political, and that is not a bad thing at all. I mean, the plot revolves around the bad guys doing some stuff the US government is doing now. Natasha even does something similar to Edward Snowden but she gets away with it because she helped save the world. Although it is funny that it sounds like a Godwin argument: You know who taps phones and trespass international borders? Nazis (or a Nazi offshoot)!. I also don't think they are just trading one form of fascism for another at the end. Avengers reacts to things, they don't go wiretapping phones and killing people who are considered potentially dangerous. As for the rest of the movie, it seems more and more that Whedon might be the weakest director Marvel has. This movie had directors who worked on sitcoms and they could make action scenes that look way better. There were some pretty good emotional character moments too like Steve visiting an old Peggy and him going to the Smithsonian. Although I do agree that some elements of the movie seems like it's meant to set up Phase 3 films. The mention of Stephen Strange almost too casually makes me wonder who he is in the movie universe.
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Apr 1, 2014 01:37
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I LIKED this movie. A lot. Quite the change from the first one! This was like action and more action,and wow. Loved to see Peggy, she is one of my favorite female characters in this franchise and old-Peggy made me just so sad  Also, here in Mexico we had our own Cap's list of things to do/see: Diego Rivera and Shakira(What in the gently caress?) were the only things I had the chance to read
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Apr 1, 2014 02:31
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Desperado Bones posted:Also, here in Mexico we had our own Cap's list of things to do/see: Diego Rivera and Shakira(What in the gently caress?) were the only things I had the chance to read Hey, there buddy! Kal-L posted:Just came back from seeing the movie. I agree with your "What the gently caress?" regarding that one.
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Apr 1, 2014 02:38
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Missed your post! I couldn't catch the other things in the list, it flashed really fast! But yeah, what the gently caress was that? Do they really think is that relevant in our popular culture? Edit: Now I want to see other countries' lists.
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Apr 1, 2014 02:49
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Just saw it here in Malaysia, was quite happy that the list that others have mentioned gets tweaked for different regions was the US one as I wouldn't have laughed quite as much reading it if it had been modified for Southeast Asia. Overall, incredibly enjoyable film, definitely one of my top 3 Marvel movies to date, but I've always liked Cap the most out of the cinematic Avengers so I could be biased. Have to say though, when Fury gets shot in Cap's apartment I honestly thought they had gone and killed him off. I went in as blind as possible about what happens in the film on purpose, though I had managed to catch the gist that the movie was going to 'radically change the Marvel universe' so when he bought it (sort of) I believed it. Especially as Whedon is now Marvel Master of the Universe and that's the kind of thing he'd do.  Action sequences were solid, a little too much 'jerky cam' for my taste in some of the more close up brawls, but it was excellent seeing him use his shield as often as he did. On a side note about the end, was anyone else somewhat disappointed when they had absolutely no immediately fallout/reaction to Widow's past apparently becoming public record? After spending the time they did on the tension between Cap and BW and whether he could trust her without knowing her, I figured suddenly having her entire history an open book might have prompted some kind of conversation. Though who knows- maybe they'll deal with that in the next Avengers film.
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Apr 1, 2014 07:42
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The MSJ posted:The mention of Stephen Strange almost too casually makes me wonder who he is in the movie universe. FelixReynolds posted:On a side note about the end, was anyone else somewhat disappointed when they had absolutely no immediately fallout/reaction to Widow's past apparently becoming public record? After spending the time they did on the tension between Cap and BW and whether he could trust her without knowing her, I figured suddenly having her entire history an open book might have prompted some kind of conversation. Though who knows- maybe they'll deal with that in the next Avengers film. Baron Bifford fucked around with this message at 08:15 on Apr 1, 2014 |
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Apr 1, 2014 07:57
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Saw this movie in Korea and Ji Su Park and Oldboy were on it. Now Oldboy I can definitely see having resonance for Cap since his being frozen for 70 years could be considered analagous to the main character of Oldboy being locked away from society for years, but why would Rogers give a flying gently caress about Ji Su Park (soccer star). Should have Gangnam Style or something instead. Anyway, about the movie. This may be the best Marvel movie yet, if not it is tied with the original Ironman in my opinion. The action is great, with some of the best acrobatics I've ever seen. The plot has surprising political depth for a superhero movie. This is what the Marvel Civil War should have been. I really like how everything wasn't reset at the end of the movie. With Black Widow's disclosure SHIELD is through and Fury is living off the grid.
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Apr 1, 2014 08:35
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Iron Man is my favorite superhero. I think he is most human and well-developed superhero character ever to grace film.
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Apr 1, 2014 08:46
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You post like a ransom note.
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Apr 1, 2014 09:52
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Apr 1, 2014 10:08
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