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lotta good, good meltdowns itt
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Aug 4, 2017 20:37
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Commie NedFlanders posted:you literally can't be anti slavery if your food is made by slaves and you eat it to survive 
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Aug 4, 2017 20:38
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Strudel Man posted:Because if you don't make an effort to live by the principles you espouse, they aren't actually your principles at all. Really, any differing reaction from observers is a secondary priority here - the more important issue is individual intellectual and moral honesty. Uhh why is it a secondary priority, they made a movement to try to effect some change not as a hangout club, it didn't work, we're talking about how they organized and how people responded. You are claiming that if they got rid of macbooks and iphones they would have been more consistent. Would that have changed how people viewed them? The media portrayals as homeless bums, ones that don't even have a phone? And uhh these people that can't call or text each other, how do they communicate? How are they supposed to organize? It's just that, since they didn't sell their iphones and macbooks, or even if they had nobody would have cared, in the end they weren't truly consistent so Strudel Man can safely ignore them because they are hypocrites
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Aug 4, 2017 20:40
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lmao if you think iphones are still considered status symbols and not basic rear end cell phones that everyone has
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Aug 4, 2017 20:44
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occupy had an economic message that people got behind and a catchy slogan, but it had no organization or way forward whatsoever. turns out that's pretty important in any movement. you can't just rely on hashtags to advance a message the only lasting thing it did was bring income inequality into the national political discourse, but almost nobody knows that occupy was responsible for it. for the most part, it was a big wet fart spacetoaster posted:Also, weren't they planning to bomb a bunch of stuff but the FBI stopped them?
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Aug 4, 2017 20:47
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Ham Sandwiches posted:Uhh why is it a secondary priority, they made a movement to try to effect some change not as a hangout club, it didn't work, we're talking about how they organized and how people responded. quote:And uhh these people that can't call or text each other, how do they communicate? How are they supposed to organize?
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Aug 4, 2017 20:49
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It's almost like violent revolution is in fact the only way to achieve meaningful change, and "Occupy Wall Street" should actually have been occupying the homes and businesses of the 1%, dragging the wealthy into the streets, and summarily executing them en masse.
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Aug 4, 2017 20:50
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Strudel Man posted:I would think living by one's principles would be more important for those trying to effect change, who presumably are strong believers in those principles, than for a "hangout club." Ok so there's no actual talking to you or actual thought behind it, other than "how can you be anti capitalism if you have an iphone lol owned idiots"
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Aug 4, 2017 20:51
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a peck of pickled peckers posted:It's almost like violent revolution is in fact the only way to achieve meaningful change, and "Occupy Wall Street" should actually have been occupying the homes and businesses of the 1%, dragging the wealthy into the streets, and summarily executing them en masse. i checked the math and this checks out
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Aug 4, 2017 20:53
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a peck of pickled peckers posted:It's almost like violent revolution is in fact the only way to achieve meaningful change, and "Occupy Wall Street" should actually have been occupying the homes and businesses of the 1%, dragging the wealthy into the streets, and summarily executing them en masse. avatar checks out
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Aug 4, 2017 20:53
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Pawn 17 posted:lol, wrong. I'm guessing Gen Z'ers would prefer a Corbyn-like candidate and in the U.K. I imagine them trending more in his direction than Theresa May. U.S. probably similar.
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Aug 4, 2017 20:58
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a peck of pickled peckers posted:It's almost like violent revolution is in fact the only way to achieve meaningful change, and "Occupy Wall Street" should actually have been occupying the homes and businesses of the 1%, dragging the wealthy into the streets, and summarily executing them en masse. 
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Aug 4, 2017 21:03
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funny how you live under a capitalist system yet criticize that same system. hypocrite much?
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Aug 4, 2017 21:03
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It's worth keeping in mind that they basically got income inequality into the mainstream of political issues. 99% was simple branding and was refreshing after a few years of intense austerity focus. From there it went into city negotiations to keep up shanty towns and downtwinkles, yeah, but they did get that idea out there.
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Aug 4, 2017 21:06
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Afro posted:lmao if you think iphones are still considered status symbols and not basic rear end cell phones that everyone has
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Aug 4, 2017 21:06
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get that OUT of my face posted:occupy had an economic message that people got behind and a catchy slogan, but it had no organization or way forward whatsoever. turns out that's pretty important in any movement. you can't just rely on hashtags to advance a message
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Aug 4, 2017 21:06
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Maya Fey posted:funny how you live under a capitalist system yet criticize that same system. hypocrite much? Probably a regular amount.
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Aug 4, 2017 21:08
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:It seemed to be about occupying for the sake of occupying. Really invested in a particular kind of horizontal organization and alter-community-building. Then the police showed up and the whole things collapsed like a house of cards. They seemed to believe that everyone would join them in abandoning the capitalist system and realizing its faults. The problem is that they had no "ok and here's what we're doing instead" or more progress may have happened. It was interesting trying to raise this point to the dudes involved and getting blank stares back, they were always focused on advocacy, reaching people, traction, media coverage, etc. same issue with Zeitgeist, for a while they were peddling The Venus Project as their path forward then that old french dude died Ham Sandwiches fucked around with this message at 21:13 on Aug 4, 2017 |
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Aug 4, 2017 21:11
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Ham Sandwiches posted:They seemed to believe that everyone would join them in abandoning the capitalist system and realizing it's faults. To me it seemed more like bringing attention to issues, and demonstrating that people were upset. They weren't proposing solutions, they were sewing seeds for public discourse. In that sense I think it was successful, at least in getting the attention of younger generations to carry on the torch.
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Aug 4, 2017 21:16
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One of the only two people that I know who were involved in Occupy was a furry who dropped out of university (after he had paid for a term already) to smoke weed in a park. His struggle really spoke to me. It said, "this is a dumb waste of time." True class warfare or nothin'
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Aug 4, 2017 21:17
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Afro posted:lmao if you think iphones are still considered status symbols and not basic rear end cell phones that everyone has seriously grandpa they just give them out with lots of contracts these days who the gently caress cares
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Aug 4, 2017 21:18
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Helpimscared posted:To me it seemed more like bringing attention to issues, and demonstrating that people were upset. They weren't proposing solutions, they were sewing seeds for public discourse. In that sense I think it was successful, at least in getting the attention of younger generations to carry on the torch. Yeah I get that, I just wish there was a group out there like occupy or BLM that actually was trying to propose concrete solutions and test their viability instead of just increasing awareness or shaping public discourse.
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Aug 4, 2017 21:19
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Literally A Person posted:One of the only two people that I know who were involved in Occupy was a furry who dropped out of university (after he had paid for a term already) to smoke weed in a park. His struggle really spoke to me. It said, "this is a dumb waste of time." Wow well the experience of this one person really disqualifies the whole movement, better pack up and go home, ancap4lyfe.
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Aug 4, 2017 21:20
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Ham Sandwiches posted:Yeah I get that, I just wish there was a group out there like occupy or BLM that actually was trying to propose concrete solutions and test their viability instead of just increasing awareness or shaping public discourse. hurr i wish there was someone doing the same thing, but not being slandered by literally every media mouthpiece. i guess we'll just have to wait
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Aug 4, 2017 21:20
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Helpimscared posted:Wow well the experience of this one person really disqualifies the whole movement, better pack up and go home, ancap4lyfe. I have spent my entire life judging books by their covers and guess what? I've never read a bad book.
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Aug 4, 2017 21:21
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Maya Fey posted:hurr i wish there was someone doing the same thing, but not being slandered by literally every media mouthpiece. i guess we'll just have to wait No like, "here is our better proposed alternative to wall street who wants to try it and prove it's better" vs "wall street is bs and doesn't work let's protest in financial centers"
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Aug 4, 2017 21:21
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Ham Sandwiches posted:No like, "here is our better proposed alternative to wall street who wants to try it and prove it's better" vs "wall street is bs and doesn't work let's protest in financial centers" what alternative to "there should be sanctions for corporate malfeasance and said sanctions should be enforced" are you thinking of
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Aug 4, 2017 21:22
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Maya Fey posted:hurr i wish there was someone doing the same thing, but not being slandered by literally every media mouthpiece. i guess we'll just have to wait Yeah it's kinda hard for these ideas to gain traction when the coverage of it just amounts to "hurr, I just don't understand, why are they upset?" and having round table discussions with people who haven't had to worry about getting by a day in their life.
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Aug 4, 2017 21:23
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Maya Fey posted:what alternative to "there should be sanctions for corporate malfeasance and said sanctions should be enforced" are you thinking of Like a tangible proposal, the way Marx described communism when presenting it. "We've come up with a different, novel way of allocating resources and rewards more efficiently to people than wall street capital structures and traditional corporate structures. Here's how it works, would anyone like to try using it."
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Aug 4, 2017 21:24
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The other person that I knew who was like an organizer for this b.s. moved to california and became a vegetarian weight-lifting weenie. A WEENIE!
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Aug 4, 2017 21:25
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Ham Sandwiches posted:"We've come up with a different, novel way of allocating resources and rewards more efficiently to people than wall street capital structures and traditional corporate structures. Here's how it works, would anyone like to try using it." whoa i wonder why nobody has thought of that, or said it, repeatedly, a billion times, but i suppose you must be some sort of genius.
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Aug 4, 2017 21:25
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Maya Fey posted:whoa i wonder why nobody has thought of that, or said it, repeatedly, a billion times, but i suppose you must be some sort of genius. I don't understand this response dude, I'm asking genuinely here why people aren't throwing out tangible alternatives to the current system, not in any way being glib or arguing in bad faith. The Basic Income crew is the closest we've come but that wasn't Occupy and still doesn't seem super fleshed out.
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Aug 4, 2017 21:27
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Commie NedFlanders posted:soon the mindless mechanisms of capital will find that authoritarian governments make it easier for markets and profits Soon? Just look at Singapore.
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Aug 4, 2017 21:29
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Ham Sandwiches posted:I don't understand this response dude, I'm asking genuinely here why people aren't throwing out tangible alternatives to the current system, not in any way being glib or arguing in bad faith. The Basic Income crew is the closest we've come but that wasn't Occupy and still doesn't seem super fleshed out. they are. the goals of both occupy and blm are/were spelled out very simply, and they were not advocating for a genuine socialist revolution or whatever either. the reason you get this blurry picture of a bunch of obnoxious assholes and dumbasses sitting around smoking weed is because that's what the media told you they were.
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Aug 4, 2017 21:30
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in case i need to spell it out they were saying wall street should be accountable for fraud and cops should be accountable for murder
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Aug 4, 2017 21:32
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Maya Fey posted:they are. the goals of both occupy and blm are/were spelled out very simply, and they were not advocating for a genuine socialist revolution or whatever either. the reason you get this blurry picture of a bunch of obnoxious assholes and dumbasses sitting around smoking weed is because that's what the media told you they were. Um...or you knew the obnoxious weed-smoking rear end in a top hat and saw how "passionately" they took their cause when they couldn't even explain endgame to you.
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Aug 4, 2017 21:32
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Literally A Person posted:Um...or you knew the obnoxious weed-smoking rear end in a top hat and saw how "passionately" they took their cause when they couldn't even explain endgame to you. i dont know what this means but i like your avatar
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Aug 4, 2017 21:33
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Maya Fey posted:they are. the goals of both occupy and blm are/were spelled out very simply, and they were not advocating for a genuine socialist revolution or whatever either. the reason you get this blurry picture of a bunch of obnoxious assholes and dumbasses sitting around smoking weed is because that's what the media told you they were. I don't have any blurry picture of obnoxious assholes and was super into seeing what would come out of Occupy. I am aware of the 99% claim getting out there. Can you link me to the proposed "here's how to dismantle wall street and replace it with something far better" document they put out there?
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Aug 4, 2017 21:33
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Maya Fey posted:i dont know what this means but i like your avatar I'm just saying that I knew the kind of people that the news was highlighting. Also, thanks! 
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Aug 4, 2017 21:34
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I like how tagging labels like weed smoker and furry on these people is some sort of attempt to delegitimize concern.
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Aug 4, 2017 21:35
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