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Shyrka posted:Finished this now, got the Catharsis ending. Ending spoilers ahead. You can absolutely bet your rear end that if undead existed in reality that we would be going through the same poo poo rn lol Also, did you drink the Dreamflower elixer? Gives the ending a lot more interesting connotations.
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Aug 7, 2021 19:08
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Sandwich Anarchist posted:You can absolutely bet your rear end that if undead existed in reality that we would be going through the same poo poo rn lol I did not drink the Dreamflower Elixer. I was actually going to but after finishing Yuslan's quest and basically pulling him out of his own suicidal idyllic fantasy I was really moved by his concern about me doing the same and felt like we'd formed a real connection so trusted his word. Made the stuff with the Numinos sting that much worse. I'm happy with it ending on a moral of the prophet trusting the people of this cycle will get it right and dying rather than trying to become another immortal god-king who'll solve everything himself. Game made me feel a lot of things! Was definitely time well spent, got 73 hours according to Steam and that's some serious value for money.
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Aug 7, 2021 20:00
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Shyrka posted:I did not drink the Dreamflower Elixer. I was actually going to but after finishing Yuslan's quest and basically pulling him out of his own suicidal idyllic fantasy I was really moved by his concern about me doing the same and felt like we'd formed a real connection so trusted his word. Made the stuff with the Numinos sting that much worse. If you're interested in what happens if you did, It's the same as the regular ending, except you survive and wake up from your coma 2 weeks later in another country to tell the Queen there about the cycle and what to expect and how to beat it. or do you?
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Aug 7, 2021 20:37
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skeleton warrior posted:Do... do you guys not remember going up to the castle in the frozen north and getting separated from your companion, and getting to hear a bunch of voice tracks about how she’s helpless and surrounded by men who are going to have just a little bit of fun before they kill her? Yep, it's this one. There's really no mistaking what they're going for in that English dialogue and voice acting, the sound effects (which are mostly muffled in those videos by people talking over them), the fact that she's been stripped down to the closest thing unmodded Skyrim has to naked: it's a rape, you're made to listen to it happen and see the aftermath of it, and it's absolutely the sort of thing that content warnings were created for. It's also on a main-line quest that can't be avoided, so you have to experience it. Portrayal isn't endorsement, but it's portrayal that is wholly gratuitous, edgy for edgy's sake, and it's vivid enough that it will cause people Actual Distress if it's a trigger for them. It doesn't need to be there, and Enderal would be a better game and a better story for its removal.
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Aug 7, 2021 21:16
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It's definitely not gratuitous, nor is it edgy for edgy's sake. It's uncomfortable and awful, but it's extremely relevant and important on both a narrative and gameplay mechanic. It's meant to do two things: a) As the player, you're meant to feel horrified so you "roleplay" correctly as a trapped and panicked adventurer, and not some gamer who is calmly stealth archering their way to the objective marker. The 2nd video actually captures this pretty well, and mirrors my own play of sloppily beating back enemies and making tons of mistakes as I rush to save my friend b) And it's meant to trigger the obvious thing in Calia, who we know can only do that sort of thing when she's under extreme duress. We also know she absolutely *despises* that thing and has trained her entire life to suppress it, so to have it crop up then is incredibly important and wouldn't be the same if she was just really mad or whatever Sandwich Anarchist posted:If you're interested in what happens if you did, It's the same as the regular ending, except you survive and wake up from your coma 2 weeks later in another country to tell the Queen there about the cycle and what to expect and how to beat it. I thought that was a brilliant piece of narrative design Nearly every WRPG has the thing where if you jump through some extra hoops you can unlock the secret really good ending. But Enderal was the first time I've seen a game explicitly plant seeds of doubt that the secret good ending is actually fake. And I really like that it planted these seeds well *before* you had to ultimately make your choice, so you had a lot of time to mull over whether or not you believed the NPC, especially considering the same NPC later betrayed everyone and was clearly just consumed by revenge
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Aug 7, 2021 21:31
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WarpDogs posted:It's definitely not gratuitous, nor is it edgy for edgy's sake. It's uncomfortable and awful, but it's extremely relevant and important on both a narrative and gameplay mechanic. It's meant to do two things: I completely disagree. It was bad writing and bad design, and absolutely gratuitous. The exact same narrative goals could have been accomplished with threatening to kill her; adding in the leering "maybe we'll have some fun with you" and threats of rape aren't necessary to make the scene compelling, or to trigger her special powers. Also, there's no compelling reason to trigger her special powers anyways! We've already been through this once before, in the cave fight where you first find out that she has those special powers. Note that in that first scene, there's no threat of rape or creepy innuendo, just a straight out "well, now we have to kill you," proving my point that the threatened rape doesn't actually add anything to the scene. As for point B - the second scene doesn't add any information: she still blacks out, she still does what she considers terrible things to other people, she still hates herself for having that power, all of which you learned in that first scene where it happened and you literally have a cutscene where she states those things, there is no information added or new insight around it in the second episode of it, it just happens again. So, again: they didn't need to remind you of her powers there; and even if you believe that it was narratively helpful to remind you of her powers just before revealing why she has those powers, they didn't need to threaten to rape her to make it a dangerous and compelling situation.
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Aug 9, 2021 15:18
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Debating narrative choices in media is a good thing. Claiming there is a graphic rape scene when there is not isn't, and that's the entire point trying to be made here.
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Aug 9, 2021 16:15
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Okay, so then what's your definition for "graphic" and why is "happens off screen but the lead up is fully voiced and broadcast to the player" significantly better?
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Aug 9, 2021 17:59
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I have no dog in this discussion but graphic in media is quite literally visual, graphic descriptions are another
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Aug 9, 2021 18:36
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skeleton warrior posted:Okay, so then what's your definition for "graphic" and why is "happens off screen but the lead up is fully voiced and broadcast to the player" significantly better? Please don't put words in my mouth. Saying there is a "graphic rape scene" absolutely implies that someone is being raped on screen with a visual portrayal. You seem to think I'm arguing in favor of rape somehow, when I'm not. I just think it's neccesary to make it clear what actually happens in the game so people don't go "wtf there is an unskippabke rape cutscene?" and pass on this very good game based on that. Tabletops posted:I have no dog in this discussion but graphic in media is quite literally visual, graphic descriptions are another Correct. And even here, there isn't a graphic description, but rather heavy implication.
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Aug 9, 2021 18:40
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I'm glad this thread turned me onto this game, but there's deffo some weird politics bleeding through. Early-ish game spoiler: For example, There's a dude who gets cuckolded because he puts his wife on too high a pedestal. While the npc who explains this to you does get exploded, it's not punishment for this belief or for loving with a marriage. "You appreciate your wife too much so she found a chad" is just sort of stated as fact and never refuted.
vez veces fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Aug 10, 2021 |
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Aug 10, 2021 19:02
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Empire State posted:I'm glad this thread turned me onto this game, but there's deffo some weird politics bleeding through. Early-ish game spoiler: For example, There's a dude who gets cuckolded because he puts his wife on too high a pedestal. While the npc who explains this to you does get exploded, it's not punishment for this belief or for loving with a marriage. "You appreciate your wife too much so she found a chad" is just sort of stated as fact and never refuted. what? the guy gets exploded by the ghost of the woman who committed suicide because her husband was murdered to cover up the cucking. like if you choose to have mercy on the guy for sleeping with his brother's wife, then the ghost pops out of the ocean to vengeance explode him.
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Aug 10, 2021 20:33
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Mr. Fall Down Terror posted:what? the guy gets exploded by the ghost of the woman who committed suicide because her husband was murdered to cover up the cucking. like if you choose to have mercy on the guy for sleeping with his brother's wife, then the ghost pops out of the ocean to vengeance explode him. But he was punished for the murder, right? Like, the impression I got was that the game's morality doesn't consider him a bad dude until the murder. I could have misread the scene.
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Aug 10, 2021 21:01
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I must have missed this quest on my playthrough, but adultery isn't really an explosion-worthy crime. Did Baldurs Gate 2 have weird politics poo poo because Keldorn's wife cheated on him and the guy she cheated with isn't painted as a villain?
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Aug 10, 2021 21:20
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Empire State posted:But he was punished for the murder, right? Like, the impression I got was that the game's morality doesn't consider him a bad dude until the murder. I could have misread the scene. People cheat every day without exploding, what a weird  thing to demand a game to enforce some arbitrary puritanical moral view. Between this and the previous "controversy", this game sure brings out... stuff out of people.
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Aug 10, 2021 21:26
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If your takeaway from a quest about betrayal, murder, and tragedy was HOT ALPHA MALE CUCKS BETA, that maybe says more about you. Infidelity has been both a real-world thing and a driver of drama in fiction with a variety of motives for thousands of years, and in this specific instance it's strange to look at an intrigue story that ends badly for everyone (especially the adulterers) and think it was making some kind of positive political statement about evopsych PUA whatevers.
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Aug 10, 2021 21:59
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Everyone should log off the god damned internet for a while, holy poo poo
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Aug 10, 2021 23:53
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Lol, fair enough. The internet made me stupid. e: To be clear, I did not want him exploding for adultery. I laughed out loud when he exploded for murder though. It simply struck me as odd that the game tells you (I am not reading into this part, it is in the text), "She cheats because her husband puts her on a pedestal," and no one ever provides an alternate explanation or otherwise counters this claim. Granted, you could say it only happened that way in the mind of the exploded guy who said it, and that only he believes that women need negging, but the writer made a decision to let him say it uncontested. It's true this is a real world thing that happens, but this game was created in the world of today's politics, so it seems like fair game to analyze in that lens. Rape is a real-world thing that happens too, and is also weird to include in a videogame imho. Anyway if I'm still stupid after this clarification then I'll give you the courtesy of shutting up about it. e: a million edits, sorry vez veces fucked around with this message at 00:18 on Aug 11, 2021 |
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Aug 10, 2021 23:56
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Thread got me try the game - I like the fresh take on skyrim, game is fun, not really sold on the writing. I also thought that the line about how the man's wife was cheating because he was too respectful was weird and kinda unnecessary
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Aug 13, 2021 06:23
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I read it as justification for being awful. See see, it's HIS fault that his wife is cheating on him.
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Aug 13, 2021 14:12
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Empire State posted:But he was punished for the murder, right? Like, the impression I got was that the game's morality doesn't consider him a bad dude until the murder. I could have misread the scene. well the angry ghost doesn't necessarily care about a love triangle in the mayor's house but she does care a whole lot that her husband was murdered over it, and she killed herself out of grief as a consequence. she didn't rise from her grave to punish infidelity, she rose from her grave to explode the man who hired her husband's killer GrayDorian posted:I also thought that the line about how the man's wife was cheating because he was too respectful was weird and kinda unnecessary its a bit clumsy as writing goes, but it basically means "she chose to cheat on him for personal reasons, we're not going to elaborate, the guilty party has been established so lets move on"
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Aug 13, 2021 14:58
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Remember too that the original mod was in German, so some of the translation could be spotty
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Aug 13, 2021 16:38
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Mr. Fall Down Terror posted:its a bit clumsy as writing goes, but it basically means "she chose to cheat on him for personal reasons, we're not going to elaborate, the guilty party has been established so lets move on" It's also weird to take the words of the lying, murderous adulterer who is trying to either buy you off or kill you as an authoritative source on what's happened. I'm pretty sure him talking like an rear end in a top hat just means he's... an rear end in a top hat, not a secret vehicle for ideological misogynist sentiment.
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Aug 14, 2021 02:02
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Ironslave posted:It's also weird to take the words of the lying, murderous adulterer who is trying to either buy you off or kill you as an authoritative source on what's happened. I'm pretty sure him talking like an rear end in a top hat just means he's... an rear end in a top hat, not a secret vehicle for ideological misogynist sentiment. But but, my crusade!
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Aug 14, 2021 10:43
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There is a loading screen tip that very clearly says "People are going to lie to manipulate you," which is worth bearing in mind the whole game through.
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Aug 14, 2021 13:28
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Ironslave posted:It's also weird to take the words of the lying, murderous adulterer who is trying to either buy you off or kill you as an authoritative source on what's happened. I'm pretty sure him talking like an rear end in a top hat just means he's... an rear end in a top hat, not a secret vehicle for ideological misogynist sentiment. Every word spoken by every character represents the opinions and attitudes of the author, unless those words are moral and good, in which case the author is just throwing up a smokescreen for their actual reprehensible beliefs. At least, that's what they told me on twitter.
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Aug 14, 2021 17:20
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Every piece of fiction has to be a tedious morality play where all the characters are 100% on board with my personal opinions and the point must be to vicariously punish everybody who doesn't agree with me, And you better believe im ready to flip the gently caress out if something isn't exactly up to my expectations.
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Aug 14, 2021 17:36
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If you play Enderal then you support rape and are a red pill nazi, and that's all there is to it.
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Aug 14, 2021 19:58
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I thought the game had bad writing but then I looked at this thread
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Aug 15, 2021 08:05
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GrayDorian posted:I thought the game had bad writing but then I looked at this thread BREAKING: Random goon thinks something has "bad writing".
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Aug 15, 2021 12:14
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Good job making GBS threads yet another thread to death, fellow goons!
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Aug 15, 2021 12:17
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Megazver posted:Good job making GBS threads yet another thread to death, fellow goons! Yeah it did suck that terminally online performative bullshit accusations of graphic rape happened huh Play the game or don't, it's really good. I see no reason to leave this poo poo bookmarked anymore
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Aug 15, 2021 12:50
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Hadn't played in months. Fired up the game and had like 30 quests in my quest log. Restarted. Game still amazing. Sinistrope tree is real fun. I'm also using AH hotkeys mod to bind a bunch of poo poo to buttons, it'll auto use shouts, so I have devour on g G, invisibility on shift G, stuff like that and when you hit it it'll auto cast them and swap back to your current items/spells. Makes the huge amount of talents way more manageable.
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Aug 15, 2021 13:14
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Anywaaaay. Came across this wabbajack mod list for enderal https://www.wabbajack.org/#/modlists/info?machineURL=emw Some good cosmetic and gameplay changes from the looks of it, would recommend if anyone was thinking of trying the SE version fresh.
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Aug 15, 2021 14:21
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man, doing a dark keeper playthrough, as entropy/psionics/heavy armor. soil elemental is a loving insane summon, thing snipes with lightning and tanks like mad. i wither gently caress up peoples brains with magic or go 2h with a bigass summoned axe, which gets its damage from entropy skill.
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Aug 18, 2021 21:31
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The internet will always find something to bitch about (often times by misrepresenting the truth) even from a completely free game.
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Aug 21, 2021 04:56
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I have run into a technical problem with the quest A Foot In The Door. I got the two recommendations you can get without leaving the building you pick up the quest in, then much later went and delivered papers. Now it thinks I didn't get Rogash's approval, or even talk to him, but he just says "Hm?" and doesn't open a dialogue menu when I try to talk to him. What console commands do I need to fix this so I can progress?
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Aug 25, 2021 13:22
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Zereth posted:I have run into a technical problem with the quest A Foot In The Door. I got the two recommendations you can get without leaving the building you pick up the quest in, then much later went and delivered papers. The quest ID is NQ_G_01 so in the console type 'getstage NQ_G_01' and it'll tell you what stage you're at. Once you have that try 'setstage NQ_G_01' followed by a number higher than the number it gave on the last command - it might not be one higher so just keep incrementing until you get something. You might need to do 'setstage NQ_G_01 to' and then the number, I'm not sure since I'm mostly going off other forum posts about messing with Skyrim quest stages and it's not something I've done myself. Hope it helps though!
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Aug 25, 2021 14:46
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is there a way to remove the spider jump scares? i do not want to go through that small shack on the island again
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Aug 25, 2021 17:09
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Pajser posted:is there a way to remove the spider jump scares? i do not want to go through that small shack on the island again There are some mods that replace spiders with bears, google "enderal spider replacer"
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Aug 25, 2021 18:04
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