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Lotta weird language in these posts like “retcon” in conjunction with a design document that was never used and “made up for the second game”. Seems weird and embittered.
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Sep 22, 2021 02:47
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Captain Oblivious posted:Lotta weird language in these posts like “retcon” in conjunction with a design document that was never used and “made up for the second game”. The design document was used for the first game. The story and backstory of the main character's family was revised to match the new game's story, which as several people have also observed, shows signs of major cuts and concepts that were not fully developed.
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Sep 22, 2021 03:18
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I don't think changing backstory from internal docs with info that didn't make it into the first game is really a retcon. Even if that has led to a timeline that doesn't really make sense.
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Sep 22, 2021 03:33
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Discendo Vox posted:The design document was used for the first game. The story and backstory of the main character's family was revised to match the new game's story, which as several people have also observed, shows signs of major cuts and concepts that were not fully developed. Information that did not make it into the first game was revised, yes.
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Sep 22, 2021 03:38
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If it's background information that players couldn't possibly know or find out from just playing the game, then changing it for a sequel is not a retcon. Especially when it's been a decade and a half since the first game came out. I'm sure there's plenty of thoughts they had about the first game that, many years later, the team decided they actually didn't like. And they're not obliged to commit to it just because it was the first idea they had.
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Sep 22, 2021 04:10
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The text of the games themselves are all that matter other than as a curiosity. It’s absolutely not a “retcon” to have unused and changed ideas in old development docs that don’t ship.
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Sep 22, 2021 06:09
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ja2ke posted:The text of the games themselves are all that matter other than as a curiosity. It’s absolutely not a “retcon” to have unused and changed ideas in old development docs that don’t ship. Changing continuity for a sequel is literally what a retcon is though; It's retroactive continuity.
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Sep 22, 2021 06:21
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Changing continuity for a sequel is literally what a retcon is though; It's retroactive continuity. Nothing changed though. For it to be a change, any of the content that was changed would have had to made it into the actual text of the first game which it did not. A retcon is not when you have an idea and don't use it in favor of another.
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Sep 22, 2021 06:31
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Retcons aren't just 'information that was previously unavailable is revealed' there generally has to be a level of contradiction with what came before. Its also more defined by the writers intent, it generally describes a big change without groundwork placed to foreshadow it. 'Jean Grey is actually alive, that was a magic space clone that died' feels like a retcon because marvel wanted to bring back a popular character against the wishes of the writer that killed her off. They had to go completely left field to explain it and it also meant that for months readers had been following a 'fake' Jean Grey in issues were written without that knowledge. See also the Spiderman Clone saga where the story yo-yos back and forth on the issue of which spiderman is the clone. Changing your mind on unreleased story details is not 'Retconning' thats just writing. For something to be 'Retroactive Continuity' there must be Continuity to replace. Its also not a very useful term outside of the office politics of cape comics tbh, writers change their mind or think up better ideas than they originally planned all the time they're just better at justifying or hiding contradictions so you don't notice.
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Sep 22, 2021 16:29
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Got it Saturday beat it Sunday now need to 100%; liked it a lot, had the same thing with Brutal Legend where the backhalf of the game really goes in overdrive to get to the finish line. Don't mind since I'm the one other person other than Tim Schaffer that loves Brutal Legend for what it was.
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Sep 23, 2021 04:01
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Nah, I also loved that game. I imagine that half of the game's budget was music licensing though, and harder to pull off now.
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Sep 23, 2021 12:11
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I've been thinking getting of Brutal Legend on GOG. I have it on Steam, but I worry at some point some of the music licenses will expire and they'll gut the game so they can keep selling it, like with the GTA games  Music licensing is bullshit
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Sep 23, 2021 12:48
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davidspackage posted:I've been thinking getting of Brutal Legend on GOG. I have it on Steam, but I worry at some point some of the music licenses will expire and they'll gut the game so they can keep selling it, like with the GTA games Its on Game Pass and retained all the music in that transition so the negotiations weren't too brutal, but yeah if you want a 100% protected you'll want a gog copy.
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Sep 23, 2021 12:54
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davidspackage posted:I've been thinking getting of Brutal Legend on GOG. I have it on Steam, but I worry at some point some of the music licenses will expire and they'll gut the game so they can keep selling it, like with the GTA games there are ways that don't involve giving the publisher more cash for no labor
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Sep 23, 2021 12:54
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Brutal Legend was great, but it's kinda half a game, which sucks. Definitely worth picking up if you can get it for cheap.
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Sep 23, 2021 14:36
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Brutal Legend is just a real mess of a game, a real pile of not mixing right bits and bobs. There are funny bits and swerves but it just does like 4 different things poorly for the whole runtime for a story that itself is really badly paced.
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Sep 23, 2021 14:43
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Yeah, I would've enjoyed the game more had it simply been an action platformer that kept the driving bits but threw out the tower defense(?) bits. But I love JB and the atmosphere, characters and music are great.
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Sep 23, 2021 15:34
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I mean, I think the game was an RTS before it was anything else, like I don't think it was conceived as an open world Zelda-esque action adventure and then the RTS was shoehorned in. RTS games aren't really my thing though, so I do agree that I wish it was a completely different game set in that universe.
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Sep 23, 2021 15:51
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I still find it funny when people complain about those rts battles, since there were like 4 of them in the entire game. The bigger problem was imo that the game just rushes for the ending after the first big battle, really feels like they ran out of budget.
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Sep 23, 2021 15:54
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Brutal Legend had a really bad demo, because it seemed to suggest that most of the game would be a zelda-esque adventure, and not the RTS combat that was the actual focus of the game. Atlhough yes, there was also an entire location cut. The tainted coil were supposed to have their own area. I still really want a sequel to somehow happen, but that seems really unlikely even with Double Fine being owned by Microsoft now.
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Sep 23, 2021 16:06
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IShallRiseAgain posted:Brutal Legend had a really bad demo, because it seemed to suggest that most of the game would be a zelda-esque adventure, and not the RTS combat that was the actual focus of the game. Atlhough yes, there was also an entire location cut. The tainted coil were supposed to have their own area. I think the closest we're going to get is Jack Black in another Psychonauts game, since there's a whole situation with that character that can be resolved and there's a variety of music-adjacent psychological phenomena to explore. I wouldn't mind a Brutal Legend homage level, or even part of a level.
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Sep 23, 2021 16:21
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certain tim shafer wants to do another brutal legend if he can get the funding, jack black is becoming a regular at Double Fine, and psychonauts 2 seems to be selling fairly well. don't think we'll get a brutal legend with the same gameplay but a metal game within a similar universe? that's very much possible I think
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Sep 23, 2021 20:25
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double nine posted:don't think we'll get a brutal legend with the same gameplay but a metal game within a similar universe? that's very much possible I think Brutal Legend 2 is just an Overcooked clone, but you're a roadie setting up for a gig instead of prepping food.
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Sep 23, 2021 20:51
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IUG posted:Brutal Legend 2 is just an Overcooked clone, but you're a roadie setting up for a gig instead of prepping food.
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Sep 23, 2021 22:50
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double nine posted:certain tim shafer wants to do another brutal legend if he can get the funding, jack black is becoming a regular at Double Fine, and psychonauts 2 seems to be selling fairly well.
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Sep 23, 2021 22:51
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Broken Cog posted:I still find it funny when people complain about those rts battles, since there were like 4 of them in the entire game. I mean, I still played through like 3/4 of the game because I liked everything else about it. I just kind of hit a brick wall and got tired of losing one of the later battles over and over again. VV pretty sure that was it. Like I probably could've kept bruteforcing my way through that battle but I just decided to... stop playing. King Vidiot fucked around with this message at 15:10 on Sep 24, 2021 |
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Sep 23, 2021 22:59
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King Vidiot posted:I mean, I still played through like 3/4 of the game because I liked everything else about it. I just kind of hit a brick wall and got tired of losing one of the later battles over and over again. Was it Ophelia? That was where my run died, partially because it was hard, partially because that plot beat rubbed me the wrong way.
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Sep 24, 2021 04:27
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I've switched the RTS battle difficulty to Full Babymode like three battles in because I don't enjoy RTSes all that much. Was still Too Much RTS In My Metal Zelda, unfortunately, but it made it less of a chore.
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Sep 26, 2021 13:08
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The thing about Brutal Legend's RTS mode as well is that even if you understand what it wants (launch yourself violently to the front line and lay waste like a jankier Dynasty Warriors) the battles don't become fun so much as they become inevitable. Its like if Herzog Zwei made 0 improvements except graphics between the genesis and the 360. Also it commits one of the gravest gaming sins which is a collectible only able to be gotten in the post game that spawns into a room that you've already been into and have no reason to go back to and are never suggested might change.
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Sep 26, 2021 13:19
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I was thinking about what Grulovia might look like in the present, and it occurred to me that Otto's machine turned enough water into hyper-ice that nothing the Psychonauts could do would allow them to locate Helmut's body, which they presumably tried quite hard to do. That is a lot of unmelting ice to drop into the middle of what was probably an ecologically-important body of water. Like, wow.
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Sep 26, 2021 23:47
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Idle wondering: so if Barber Ford came from Regret At What Lucy Did, Bowling Ford came from Lingering Love For Lucy, and Mail Clerk Ford came from Horror At How She Had Changed... what personality traits did the Psychonauts 1 various versions of Ford come from?
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Sep 27, 2021 08:52
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Junpei posted:Idle wondering: I have suspicions about the Ford who's in love with canoes. Also, in the backer trailer, Ranger Ford goes and talks to the posts in the reception area of the camp like they're the rest of the Psychic Seven, so he seems to represent when he was a psychic hippy in a psychic hippy commune in the woods. If you look at the history exhibit in the Motherlobe before meeting the interns, I think Raz even says that Ford was working as a park ranger when he discovered Psitanium.
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Sep 27, 2021 09:03
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Finally buckled down and 100%'d the game, other than collecting all the pins because frankly I can't be assed to do that. I was pretty thorough about getting figments the first time around so I wasn't missing too much on that front but I was missing a surprising amount of emotional baggage and memory vaults. After doing my whirlwind tour, I have to say, Jesus Christ, all the members of the Psychic Seven really needed to sit down and loving talk to each other. These people are terrible at actually being friends. Otto may be the person that they all either think negatively of or assume thinks negatively of them, but Cassie's projections of everyone are pretty negative, Bob's too lost in his grief (and booze) to give a poo poo about anyone, Compton thinks everyone hates him and refuses to interact with them anymore, Ford doesn't spare a single thought for anyone but Lucy, and Helmut's fantasy about them all being a super band of best friends is clearly exactly that - a fantasy made up by someone who didn't have to live through the aftermath.
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Sep 27, 2021 15:50
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how on earth did you 100% it without all the pins? i could comfortably buy everything in the store before the endgame, well before iirc.
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Sep 27, 2021 16:13
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CoolCab posted:how on earth did you 100% it without all the pins? i could comfortably buy everything in the store before the endgame, well before iirc. Sounded to me like they couldn't be bothered to buy them all; not that they couldn't buy them all, just didn't want to waste time on it.
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Sep 27, 2021 17:50
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Didn't feel like wasting my time on gathering psitanium tbh and I had never bought any of the pins that increase the amount of psitanium you get passively. I barely interacted with the pins at all, if I'm being honest. I got three I liked, then did nothing else with it for the entire game.
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Sep 27, 2021 18:30
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CuwiKhons posted:Didn't feel like wasting my time on gathering psitanium tbh and I had never bought any of the pins that increase the amount of psitanium you get passively. I barely interacted with the pins at all, if I'm being honest. I got three I liked, then did nothing else with it for the entire game. tbf i bought none until i could afford/equip the psytanium++ options. they really were almost entirely superfluous.
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Sep 27, 2021 18:33
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The entire pin system felt a little slapped on. The psitanium pins were the only real gamechangers and then only as a vehicle to let you buy more pins. I got the one that lets you use TK with nothing around to grab, the one to increase the chain on Psi-blasts, and Cannonball to let me ground pound with Levitation and I stuck with those for the whole game.
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Sep 27, 2021 18:41
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i just used the three color pins because i like how the levitation ball looks when white/grey 
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Sep 27, 2021 18:47
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I had no idea you could equip more than one to combine colors! That's really clever.
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Sep 27, 2021 18:56
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