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kotkin made me a stalinist
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Nov 4, 2017 17:43
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3X65w6crSM
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Nov 4, 2017 19:50
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Typo posted:my favorite oppositionist story from kotkin was when stalin was taking control of the party machine by packing the party apparatus with his cronies because he controlled the orgburo and the secretariat which were basically the party's HR department. my favourite is when Bukharin gets Lenin’s testament and then tries to use it to put powers in the hands of the threesome of Trotsky/Zinoviev and Stalin but Trotsky’s all ‘gently caress you scrubs I’m only interested in being in charge of the Economy’* *doesn’t get put in charge of economy, is immediately exiled and then murdered
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Nov 5, 2017 00:11
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imagine any of those fuckin miserable bumblers being in charge of the red army during wwii lol
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Nov 5, 2017 00:13
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R. Guyovich posted:imagine any of those fuckin miserable bumblers being in charge of the red army during wwii lol imagine if Stalin hadn't signed a treaty with Hitler
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Nov 5, 2017 00:18
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zen death robot posted:imagine if Stalin hadn't signed a treaty with Hitler *imagines a world where the ussr doesn't get extra years to build up its military and the nazis take over europe* ya das is gut mein herr
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Nov 5, 2017 00:22
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R. Guyovich posted:*imagines a world where the ussr doesn't get extra years to build up its military and the nazis take over europe* Imagine a world where the USSR didn't purge its own military so it wouldn't have to rebuild it.
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Nov 5, 2017 00:31
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imagine a world where the military's regressive elements turn against the state and leave russia easy pickings for the german army
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Nov 5, 2017 00:33
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Imagine a world where the USSR didn't purge its own military so it wouldn't have to rebuild it. Yeah they could have had their own Pétain, that would have been cool
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Nov 5, 2017 00:44
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Imagine a world where the USSR didn't purge its own military so it wouldn't have to rebuild it. they didn't do a good enough job, yeah
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Nov 5, 2017 00:44
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Considering Trotsky created the Red Army and ran it to victory during the Civil War, he might have done ok in WWII.
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Nov 5, 2017 00:48
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MonsieurChoc posted:Considering Trotsky created the Red Army and ran it to victory during the Civil War, he might have done ok in WWII. seems reasonable
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Nov 5, 2017 00:49
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MonsieurChoc posted:Considering Trotsky created the Red Army and ran it to victory during the Civil War, he might have done ok in WWII. Trotsky's main contribution to the Red Army was recruitment, not strategic prowess.
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Nov 5, 2017 01:02
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Trotsky's main contribution to the Red Army was recruitment, not strategic prowess. Wasn't he also real good at inspiring da troops? Seems at odds with his annoying personality
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Nov 5, 2017 01:44
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Dreddout posted:Wasn't he also real good at inspiring da troops? So was Kerensky.
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Nov 5, 2017 01:45
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lollontee posted:So was Kerensky. Kerensky seemed genuinely charasmatic and affable whereas Trotsky... wasn't.
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Nov 5, 2017 01:49
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lollontee posted:kotkin made me a stalinist
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Nov 5, 2017 02:05
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Nov 5, 2017 02:16
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7k4kO4ADLHo
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Nov 5, 2017 02:23
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Trotsky at least was smart enough to try to recruit experienced former Tsarist officers while Stalin's faction didn't want nothing of that. Also half of the reason the Reds won was because the Whites were incredibly loving loathed by the Russian peasantry and proletariat, specially due to the fact that while the Red Army did requisitions for grain, the Whites just looted villages of anything of value and killed every Jew they could find.
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Nov 5, 2017 03:11
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R. Guyovich posted:imagine any of those fuckin miserable bumblers being in charge of the red army during wwii lol the guys stalin replaced them with were under-educated idiots who were prob on average worse
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Nov 5, 2017 03:26
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the point is, stalin did nothing wrong
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Nov 5, 2017 03:33
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Budionny and Voroshilov were complete retards on the Civil War and were complete retards on WW2
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Nov 5, 2017 03:34
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Plutonis posted:Budionny and Voroshilov were complete retards on the Civil War and were complete retards on WW2
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Nov 5, 2017 04:51
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Plutonis posted:Trotsky at least was smart enough to try to recruit experienced former Tsarist officers while Stalin's faction didn't want nothing of that. Also half of the reason the Reds won was because the Whites were incredibly loving loathed by the Russian peasantry and proletariat, specially due to the fact that while the Red Army did requisitions for grain, the Whites just looted villages of anything of value and killed every Jew they could find. the reds won because the whites were idiots who can't accept that the world has changed since the early 1800s and weren't willing to accept that the peasant's "land revolution" as a fait accompli which meant they had little peasant support when the reds were literally raping and starving the peasants by taking their grain. The decisive factor of the war basically came down to the reds were willing to say that they'll let peasants keep the land they took from the landowning class and the whites weren't. also at one point one white faction were close to petrograd and the finnish army was basically like "acknowledge us as independent which we are already anyway and we'll ally with you to take out the reds" and the whites were like nooooo peter the great conquered you guys so I can't just let you guys go like that Typo fucked around with this message at 04:56 on Nov 5, 2017 |
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Nov 5, 2017 04:53
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Plutonis posted:Trotsky at least was smart enough to try to recruit experienced former Tsarist officers while Stalin's faction didn't want nothing of that. Also half of the reason the Reds won was because the Whites were incredibly loving loathed by the Russian peasantry and proletariat, specially due to the fact that while the Red Army did requisitions for grain, the Whites just looted villages of anything of value and killed every Jew they could find. Plus the whites wanted to return all that property to their feudal lords, while the Bolsheviks were promising that they'd get to keep their land.
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Nov 5, 2017 05:00
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Dreddout posted:Wasn't he also real good at inspiring da troops? I was reading about labour unrest in Canada during WWI and apparently Trotsky was interned in Canada with a bunch of German immigrants but Canada shipped him out because he was inspiring all the other detainees into socialism and they were scared to leave him in the camp I guess he was an inspiring orator who had an insufferable personality? Pener Kropoopkin posted:Plus the whites wanted to return all that property to their feudal lords, while the Bolsheviks were promising that they'd get to keep their land. are you sure? I thought the Left SR split from the Bolsheviks was over the peasant question with the SRs wanting to give the land to the peasants with the Bolsheviks wanting it to be controlled by the state?
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Nov 5, 2017 05:05
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Plutonis posted:Budionny and Voroshilov were complete retards on the Civil War and were complete retards on WW2
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Nov 5, 2017 05:27
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A Typical Goon posted:are you sure? I thought the Left SR split from the Bolsheviks was over the peasant question with the SRs wanting to give the land to the peasants with the Bolsheviks wanting it to be controlled by the state? Left SRs split because they wouldn't stop complaining about the Bolsheviks taking too much power, and signing Brest-Litovsk.
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Nov 5, 2017 05:52
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Left SRs split because they wouldn't stop complaining about the Bolsheviks taking too much power, and signing Brest-Litovsk. I think there was more it than this from my recollection but I’m admittedly not super knowledgeable about the Russian revolution. Seems weird that Brest-Litovsk was signed in early March but the SRs didn’t assassinate Mirbach until July
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Nov 5, 2017 06:06
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A Typical Goon posted:I was reading about labour unrest in Canada during WWI and apparently Trotsky was interned in Canada with a bunch of German immigrants but Canada shipped him out because he was inspiring all the other detainees into socialism and they were scared to leave him in the camp quote:are you sure? I thought the Left SR split from the Bolsheviks was over the peasant question with the SRs wanting to give the land to the peasants with the Bolsheviks wanting it to be controlled by the state? The left SR split from the Bolsheviks basically came down to the bolsheviks carrying out grain requisition from the peasantry and killing those who resisted
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Nov 5, 2017 06:23
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the really weird thing is that the left-sr actually formed a big part of the early cheka and in July 1918 had a serious chance of overthrowing the bolsheviks were at least greatly damaging them if they were determined enough to carry out a third revolution
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Nov 5, 2017 06:25
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Can you believe those people who are always trying to re-litigate the 2016 primaries? Amateurs!
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Nov 5, 2017 06:52
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Typo posted:pretty much, trotsky is good at dealing with the masses and the rank-and-file party members since he gets to be smartest inspiring leader to them. I guess he just couldn't interact with people who felt they were his equals. suddenly those leftist ideology tests I took make sense if they were actually personality tests
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Nov 5, 2017 07:04
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yeah Trotsky was perfect personality cult material.
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Nov 5, 2017 07:28
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the symbol of the 4th international is pretty cool though trotskyite dog, enemy of the people
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Nov 5, 2017 07:32
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:yeah Trotsky was perfect personality cult material. He was an uggo I can't see his face plastered everywhere like Stalin and Mao who had the advantage of looking like stern grandpas.
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Nov 5, 2017 08:29
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Dreddout posted:He was an uggo Young Trotsky basically looked like Steve from Stranger Things, and that's the image that would probably be cultivated.
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Nov 5, 2017 08:56
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Young Trotsky basically looked like Steve from Stranger Things, and that's the image that would probably be cultivated. he looked like ben schwartz lol
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Nov 5, 2017 09:12
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Bryter posted:Yeah they could have had their own Pétain, that would have been cool There was a French general named Petain? He must've gotten some poo poo at school.
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Nov 5, 2017 09:23
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