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Grizzled Patriarch posted:Anybody got any recommendations for something in the same vein as The Street of Crocodiles, besides Kafka? You know he also wrote Sanatorium under the sign of the hourglass right?
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Aug 13, 2017 08:45
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Safety Biscuits posted:You know he also wrote Sanatorium under the sign of the hourglass right? Huh, for some reason I thought this hadn't been translated, but it looks like it's been around in English since 1997. Definitely going to track that down!
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Aug 13, 2017 08:49
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Anna Kavan's short stories are somewhat similar. THere's something in Walser that reminds me of Schulz quite a bit as well also, the English translation of him is supposedly not very good: quote:The existing translation, made years ago by Celina Wieniewska, reads with a difficulty exacerbated by the fact that whenever the translator can’t cope with the linguistic thicket of Schulz’s language (usually by pruning away with the translator’s secateurs), she blithely omits the troublesome sentences, thus entirely erasing the writer’s signature. Schulz in English reads smoothly and fluently, whereas Schulz is not in the least bit smooth and fluent quote:I must take issue with that translation on several grounds. There are some quite basic blunders; many words and phrases are simply mistranslated. But worse are the ellipses, the passages simply omitted. There is a sense of paraphrase, of too much explanation, of shying away from taking a challenge. “A peony overflowing with pink plenitude”, typically, becomes simply “a peony”. for the record, i read and liked the english translation, butu i wasn't comparing it to the original Burning Rain fucked around with this message at 09:08 on Aug 13, 2017 |
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Aug 13, 2017 09:04
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whatevz fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Apr 25, 2022 |
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Aug 14, 2017 13:36
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pleasecallmechrist posted:Also, I just read Starship Troopers. Heinlein had some really interesting, and even admirable, ideas regarding citizenship and duty. I haven't seen the movie since I was younger, but I know that it emphasized the badassness a lot more, while the book is concerned with contemplating human beings as teams. Felt good to read more conservative work. 4/10 too obvious
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Aug 14, 2017 13:39
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pleasecallmechrist posted:Also, I just read Starship Troopers. Heinlein had some really interesting, and even admirable, ideas regarding citizenship and duty. I haven't seen the movie since I was younger, but I know that it emphasized the badassness a lot more, while the book is concerned with contemplating human beings as teams. Felt good to read more conservative work. the film was a satire of the original work
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Aug 14, 2017 13:53
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whatevz fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Apr 25, 2022 |
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Aug 14, 2017 15:39
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It's literal fascism OP
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Aug 14, 2017 16:25
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pleasecallmechrist posted:As in trolling? Read the passages regarding the justice system, citizenship and why service members would be ideal candidates for leadership or governance. They're worth consideration. If nothing else, because writers have welcomed Marxism balls deep and with no critique. And it's refreshing to read someone sincere about patriotism etc without the crutch of irony. I wouldnt call Starship Troopers literature but, agree with it or not, if you're interested in traditional or conservative approaches to fiction it's slimpickin as far as 'real literature' goes, especially contemporary novels. 3/10
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Aug 14, 2017 17:18
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pleasecallmechrist posted:I wouldnt call Starship Troopers literature but Read the thread title please
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Aug 14, 2017 17:20
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pleasecallmechrist posted:agree with it or not, if you're interested in traditional or conservative approaches to fiction it's slimpickin as far as 'real literature' goes, especially contemporary novels. this is really weird, to me, if you threw a dart at harold bloom's western canon and you would probably a writer who has more in common with a centre right conservative than a liberal or a socialist. depending on what you mean by the traditional approach, it's still absolutely everywhere. And what's more none of heinlein is like at all appealing, least of all the ideology?
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Aug 14, 2017 17:48
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J_RBG posted:this is really weird, to me, if you threw a dart at harold bloom's western canon and you would probably a writer who has more in common with a centre right conservative than a liberal or a socialist. I mean, again, if his idea of "conservatism" is fascist military citizenship, then most other ideologies are going to be considerably left of that.
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Aug 14, 2017 18:26
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man watching robocop: we must privatize the police immediately.
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Aug 14, 2017 18:27
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pleasecallmechrist posted:As in trolling? Read the passages regarding the justice system, citizenship and why service members would be ideal candidates for leadership or governance. They're worth consideration. If nothing else, because writers have welcomed Marxism balls deep and with no critique. And it's refreshing to read someone sincere about patriotism etc without the crutch of irony. I wouldnt call Starship Troopers literature but, agree with it or not, if you're interested in traditional or conservative approaches to fiction it's slimpickin as far as 'real literature' goes, especially contemporary novels. you get that its fascism, right? like the hyper-militarized society it depicts is a fascist society? like, tom wolfe's bonfire of the vanities is a conservative work. starship troopers is a fascist work. chernobyl kinsman fucked around with this message at 19:09 on Aug 14, 2017 |
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Aug 14, 2017 19:07
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fascism is the hip new thing these days if you didn't notice
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Aug 14, 2017 19:18
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The most explicit definition of a conservative literary work is probably Winters Tale
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Aug 14, 2017 19:20
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Mel Mudkiper posted:The most explicit definition of a conservative literary work is probably Winters Tale I was actually just about to post about Mark Helprin's stuff as well, yeah
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Aug 14, 2017 19:23
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yeah that dude is like Garcia Marquez hosed Ayn Rand
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Aug 14, 2017 21:22
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I got Women and Men from my library but I can only keep it for twenty days. Has anybody read it? I'm going to try and make as much progress as humanly possible, I'll check back in on the 24th.
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Aug 14, 2017 21:27
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Mel Mudkiper posted:yeah that dude is like Garcia Marquez hosed Ayn Rand yeah alright i can jerk off to that
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Aug 15, 2017 02:29
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pleasecallmechrist posted:As in trolling? Read the passages regarding the justice system, citizenship and why service members would be ideal candidates for leadership or governance. They're worth consideration. If nothing else, because writers have welcomed Marxism balls deep and with no critique. And it's refreshing to read someone sincere about patriotism etc without the crutch of irony. I wouldnt call Starship Troopers literature but, agree with it or not, if you're interested in traditional or conservative approaches to fiction it's slimpickin as far as 'real literature' goes, especially contemporary novels. I found something for you 
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Aug 15, 2017 05:31
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pleasecallmechrist posted:As in trolling? Read the passages regarding the justice system, citizenship and why service members would be ideal candidates for leadership or governance. They're worth consideration. If nothing else, because writers have welcomed Marxism balls deep and with no critique. And it's refreshing to read someone sincere about patriotism etc without the crutch of irony. I wouldnt call Starship Troopers literature but, agree with it or not, if you're interested in traditional or conservative approaches to fiction it's slimpickin as far as 'real literature' goes, especially contemporary novels. can't believe this guy who thinks robert heinlein had some good ideas doesnt like marxism
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Aug 15, 2017 13:37
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pepperoni and keys posted:I found something for you Those are some odd picks for "right-wing" fiction.
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Aug 15, 2017 13:38
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WIlliam Blake is such a strange right wing poetry pick
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Aug 15, 2017 13:39
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it's absurd to say that there's no traditional or conservative approaches to literary fiction so you have to read heinlein. like there's 10 reactionary or conservative authors i can think of just off the bat. it's far more common than Marxism.
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Aug 15, 2017 13:40
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at the date posted:Those are some odd picks for "right-wing" fiction. Wait Industrial Society and it's Future????
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Aug 15, 2017 13:42
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CestMoi posted:Wait Industrial Society and it's Future???? Haha, I missed that.
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Aug 15, 2017 14:13
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pepperoni and keys posted:I found something for you There's nothing "right wing" about confessions of a mask except the guy who wrote it, but Mishima was mostly apolitical at the time, he wrote it when he was still a Todai student singing bar songs and loving around. It's a book about a gay guy talking about jerking off and being confused. Did the person who made this list even read the books? And why is Plato there? Isn't Republic basically a description of a society without slaves? Shibawanko fucked around with this message at 14:28 on Aug 15, 2017 |
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Aug 15, 2017 14:24
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CestMoi posted:WIlliam Blake is such a strange right wing poetry pick 7. Till a Web, dark and cold, throughout all The tormented element stretch’d From the sorrows of Urizen’s soul. And the Web is a Female in embryo; None could break the Web, no wings of fire, 8. So twisted the cords, and so knotted The meshes, twisted like to the human brain. 9. And all call’d it the Net of Religion. - freerepublic.com
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Aug 15, 2017 14:37
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Shibawanko posted:And why is Plato there? Isn't Republic basically a description of a society without slaves? the republic is quite right wing, in the modern sense of the word, since he argues for the inherent right of certain men with access to pure Ideas to lead with absolute power. there's also a lot of weird social engineering going on, like the exile of all poets and artists and the classification of people's souls into certain categories.
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Aug 15, 2017 14:42
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Foul Fowl posted:the republic is quite right wing, in the modern sense of the word, since he argues for the inherent right of certain men with access to pure Ideas to lead with absolute power. there's also a lot of weird social engineering going on, like the exile of all poets and artists and the classification of people's souls into certain categories. That sounds more like Leninist vanguardism.
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Aug 15, 2017 14:46
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Foul Fowl posted:7. Till a Web, dark and cold, throughout all William Blake is so f*cking good
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Aug 15, 2017 14:52
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speaking of, y'all should check out the blake archive, which is the only true way to read blake's stuff
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Aug 15, 2017 14:54
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Foul Fowl posted:the republic is quite right wing, in the modern sense of the word, since he argues for the inherent right of certain men with access to pure Ideas to lead with absolute power. there's also a lot of weird social engineering going on, like the exile of all poets and artists and the classification of people's souls into certain categories. It would be pretty silly to interpret that bit of the Republic as an unironic recommendation to ban poetry. You would have to believe that Socrates, the guy who makes frequent admiring references to the heroes of Homer's poetry and is himself compared to Odysseus, does a 180 in this specific section and decides Homer is irreligious and subversive. It's just one of a number of examples of Socrates's character loving with the rubes Plato deliberately positions as his foils.
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Aug 15, 2017 15:01
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i hope ppl read noted elitist Kurt Vonnegut and reactionary Saki very seriously like they intended their works to be read
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Aug 15, 2017 15:08
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at the date posted:It would be pretty silly to interpret that bit of the Republic as an unironic recommendation to ban poetry. You would have to believe that Socrates, the guy who makes frequent admiring references to the heroes of Homer's poetry and is himself compared to Odysseus, does a 180 in this specific section and decides Homer is irreligious and subversive. It's just one of a number of examples of Socrates's character loving with the rubes Plato deliberately positions as his foils. See, Socrates is just being ironic I mean, sure, that's what he's doing, but I'd argue the Republic is not actually intended to be intellectually consistent, it's just intended to look consistent enough to fool the rubes (i.e., on some level, everyone reading it). The whole thing is a pyramid of rhetorical tricks; my favorite is Meno, where Socrates' punching-bag strawman in a discussion about "virtue" is an Athenian general universally known as a grasping and conniving traitor. Plato's Republic is the classical-world equivalent of "then everyone stood up and clapped, and that clap was a veteran" email forwards.
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Aug 15, 2017 15:10
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Shibawanko posted:That sounds more like Leninist vanguardism. it's kind of the opposite, in the sense that Plato's philosopher-kings are those which have the purest access to the ideal world in which the perfect and truthful forms of everything exists, and from which everything that exists in the real world is a pale imitation of. leninist vanguardism is still rooted in Marx's materialism. at the date posted:It would be pretty silly to interpret that bit of the Republic as an unironic recommendation to ban poetry. You would have to believe that Socrates, the guy who makes frequent admiring references to the heroes of Homer's poetry and is himself compared to Odysseus, does a 180 in this specific section and decides Homer is irreligious and subversive. It's just one of a number of examples of Socrates's character loving with the rubes Plato deliberately positions as his foils. it really is the logical conclusion of Plato's philosophy though - a representation of a representation is actively harmful to the pursuit of truth. lots of philosophers (like Socrates and Plotinus) tried to mollify that aspect of his philosophy, and they either end up turning away from the world of ideal forms (as Socrates does) or transforming it into something else entirely (like Plotinus). i mean, the reason that Sidney's Defense of Poetry is so famous is because (as far as I know) it's the first text in the English canon to directly contradict Plato's claims about poetry and argue for its objective and philosophical worth as something other than base entertainment for the braying idiot sheep masses.
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Aug 15, 2017 15:17
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I'm surprised at Pol for not calling Nostromo racist and anti-semitic, or TSA anti-semitic.
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Aug 15, 2017 15:23
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Mr. Squishy posted:I'm surprised at Pol for not calling Nostromo racist and anti-semitic, or TSA anti-semitic. you know /pol/ is nazis now right?
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Aug 15, 2017 16:05
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I said calling, not calling out.
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Aug 15, 2017 16:10
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