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Raxivace posted:Owen is only in like 15 minutes of Star Wars. Okay? Waffles Inc. posted:I totally hear you on this, but why would it be bad for her to resemble Luke too much? She's already very similar to Luke, I just don't see how making her even more similar to him is going to make her more interesting, which is what you said. I'm not saying it'd be "bad", per se, I just don't know how it would've been more interesting. Out of all the stuff from the conceptual/development phase, I really wish they had gone with the idea of having more Jedi than just Luke in it. I think the idea of more Jedi than Luke existing at this point would've been really cool, would've made the development of some of these characters seem less regressive, and would've opened up a lot of possibilities for future action scenes.
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Jan 26, 2016 21:42
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Beeez posted:I disagree, I think her reluctance is one of the big things that differentiates her from Luke in the OT. Having an older male figure holding her back would be too similar to the dynamic between Luke and Owen. I think what would differentiate him from Owen is that he was an ex-Republican Pilot himself, so their would obviously be a bit of political and generational strife between the two characters. If Rey wanted to run off and fight "the good fight" it would be interesting to finally see whether ex-rebels from the OT denounced or glorified the war, especially if what they won and faught for were lovely junkyard jobs on desert planets. Or it could have had Rey have second thoughts about what her life would have been like under the GREAT Empire.
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Jan 26, 2016 21:42
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homullus posted:A heroic superweapon is still a weapon designed to kill as many people as possible. Wars not make one great. The specific design was of a sperm with an armored head designed to penetrate the shell of a Death Star; it literally boasted no military capabilities beyond "it can crash land and bunker bust a hollow planet". Both in symbolism and face utility it was a tool for protecting life; the ironic Life Missile for the ironic Death Star.
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Jan 26, 2016 22:08
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Waffles Inc. posted:A never-ending desire to return to Jakku that simply ceases at some point for reasons we're never shown is not a very interesting force to propel the protagonist's journey the way it's used in TFA. Rey is given many different reasons to leave Jakku for good. She rejects them constantly, even Maz's plea after telling her straight up "I can see it in your eyes, you know your family is never coming back, but there is someone waiting for you in the future". She is possibly open to this plea until Maz brings up the lightsaber, then Rey immediately reacts badly ("I'll never touch that thing again. I don't want anything to do with this!"). After that - Rey reads Kylo's mind, battles with him, draws Luke's lightsaber during that battle, uses the Force to defeat Kylo (+Chewiebolt) Han Solo dies If you want to say Luke is only the next father figure Rey is reaching for, then you might believe Han Solo's death is the deciding factor in her changing from wanting to return to Jakku to wanting to explore the myths and legends of the galaxy. If you think that after reading Kylo's mind, her opinion on the Force has changed, and she is now seeking help/training then the fight with Kylo and possibly a desire to protect Finn (to gain power) is the motivating factor. Maybe she finds her journey to find Luke inescapable - she has his lightsaber, she knows where he is, she wants him to take it out of her life so that she CAN return to Jakku. Bear in mind her expression when she is trying to give Luke the saber. It's probably some combination of these things. Or maybe she just wanted to wear her fresh new travel duds.
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Jan 26, 2016 22:13
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Alternatively, she might have come to terms with the fact that she can't just hoard relics and ride out the war; if the First Order are ready to blow up three planets simultaneously on a whim (and charge up for three more) there's no guarantee that they wont go "considering the last two revolutions, we should wipe out the garbage outer rim desert planets.". Even her most familiar and lowly living is not safe under the First Order.
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Jan 26, 2016 22:18
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turtlecrunch posted:Maybe she finds her journey to find Luke inescapable - she has his lightsaber, she knows where he is, she wants him to take it out of her life so that she CAN return to Jakku. Bear in mind her expression when she is trying to give Luke the saber. I can buy this
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Jan 26, 2016 23:11
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MonsieurChoc posted:gently caress it, let's talk about TFA. And anime.
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Jan 26, 2016 23:25
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Rey's motivations are kinda lame because all the people working on TFA are such huge Star Wars Fans that they didn't think they needed to write good reasons for her to not fly around the galaxy with Han Solo and Chewbacca, the Greatest People Ever of All Time (actually a space trucker and his talking dog).
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Jan 26, 2016 23:38
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:That's because the fight scene in Episode 3 (though it features Sheev hamming it up) isn't a comedy scene. It's a scene of a little puppy getting kicked around by a cackling, Joker-like character. I found it more interesting since Sheev has already used the legal and military apparatus of the Republic to completely neuter the Jedi through Order 66 and having the Clone Troopers storm the temple, and then, against Yoda, he's literally throwing the Republic at him and shielding himself with it, almost like some sort of crazy videogame boss. Of course Yoda does well by responding in key, but that's probably the first time the Jedi actually tried to take down the Chancellor by using the systems of the Republic as opposed to a direct show of force, and by that point it was too little and too late. In all honesty the Yoda vs Sheev fight is probably my favorite fight in any of the films
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Jan 27, 2016 00:29
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Hey he's a smuggler, which explains why he has no qualms with murdering people.
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Jan 27, 2016 00:30
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I just rewatched rots and yodas fight ends with him getting pooped out of the senate.
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Jan 27, 2016 00:32
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People didn't think Yoda used a lightsaber because the idea of a tiny green goblin using one is stupid. Episode II came out and confirmed that for everyone.
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Jan 27, 2016 00:33
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Chucat posted:I found it more interesting since Sheev has already used the legal and military apparatus of the Republic to completely neuter the Jedi through Order 66 and having the Clone Troopers storm the temple, and then, against Yoda, he's literally throwing the Republic at him and shielding himself with it, almost like some sort of crazy videogame boss. It's great, but the best part is when Palpatine is the only person to ever verbalize the fact that Yoda is green.
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Jan 27, 2016 00:40
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SHISHKABOB posted:I just rewatched rots and yodas fight ends with him getting pooped out of the senate. Yoda (an enemy of the state!) tries to illegally depose a 100% honest ruler who has achieved absolute power while working completely within the systems of the Republic. Of course the Senate is going to literally rise to his defense and proceed to crush Yoda, eat him up and poo poo him out. The brief cut between them rising up through the floor of the Senate House and Palpatine having a commanding position in the fight is just how much time the Senate needed to deliberate on what was unfolding before them. Chucat fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Jan 27, 2016 |
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Jan 27, 2016 00:49
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Beeez posted:It's great, but the best part is when Palpatine is the only person to ever verbalize the fact that Yoda is green. I think the line in the film is "my little green friend" but if I recall correctly there's an earlier scene in the novel before Palp's big reveal where he, Yoda, and Mace are sitting around talking and Palpatine is thinking how glorious it's going to be when "the little green freak" gets what's coming to him soon
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Jan 27, 2016 00:50
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Sheev, to Yoda: I have waited a long time for this moment, my little green friend. Quigon, to Watto: Patience, my blue friend.
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Jan 27, 2016 00:53
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Waffles Inc. posted:It would've given her some sort of driving force to do the things she does in the movie. Right now, the only reason she does things is that she's the good guy and thus is involved in the story. If she desires to get off the planet from the get go there's a reason to think she would want to be involved in all of the goings-on. She's torn between leaving and remaining on Jakku. I'm rehashing a post I made yesterday here, but I don't see how this isn't clear. We see her gazing dreamily, while wearing a pilot's helmet, at a spaceship blasting off. We see her recognize herself in the face of an aged woman cleaning scrap across from her. Her daily marks on the AT-AT's interior evidence a prisoner's mentality. When she initially leaves with Finn it's because (as is stated in the script) she's been identified with him and BB8 by the Tie Fighters. When she accompanies them to Takodama she's clearly happy. Maz makes clear that on some level Rey already realizes that there's no reason left for her to remain on Jakku beyond fruitless guilt.
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Jan 27, 2016 01:11
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Chucat posted:Yoda (an enemy of the state!) tries to illegally depose a 100% honest ruler who has achieved absolute power while working completely within the systems of the Republic. Of course the Senate is going to literally rise to his defense and proceed to crush Yoda, eat him up and poo poo him out. He hired people to starve a planet into declaring a vote of no confidence against his political opponent. You could say "well the senate wouldn't know who sidious is", but he literally fights with and shoots lightning at the Jedi head master despite having no Jedi training, in an area already established to have cameras. It wouldn't take a genius to connect the dots.
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Jan 27, 2016 01:11
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Neurolimal posted:He hired people to starve a planet into declaring a vote of no confidence against his political opponent. She declared a vote of no confidence because the previous chancellor was in thrall to bureaucrats, the senators didn't give a poo poo about the war, they gave a poo poo about wanting a chancellor who wouldn't get bossed around and who would also get poo poo done. Also they wouldn't be terrified of Sidious for being a Sith Lord, they'd probably think "Thank god this guy is able to defend himself against those loving insane Jedi."
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Jan 27, 2016 01:24
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MonsieurChoc posted:gently caress it, let's talk about TFA. And anime. Gonna second that this post rules. Gundam is the poo poo and I got into it shortly after seeing TFA, so it was kinda neat to make comparisons. (Though I really don't like Victory. Zeta is my jam.)
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Jan 27, 2016 01:34
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Chucat posted:She declared a vote of no confidence because the previous chancellor was in thrall to bureaucrats, the senators didn't give a poo poo about the war, they gave a poo poo about wanting a chancellor who wouldn't get bossed around and who would also get poo poo done. The point is that the Jedi know Sidious orchestrated the planet invasion, the cameras would reveal that Palpatine is a sith lord, and the dumb Rule of Two thing means that he must be Sidious because Dooku died like a day ago. Thus meaning that he sicced the trade federation on a senator to persuade her into voting him in. It's like accusing a senator of using the mafia to remove any political threats, then the senator pulls out a tommygun and gets into a gunfight with security. If he wins I'm not going to think "thank god he can defend himself against such baseless accusations!"
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Jan 27, 2016 01:34
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He gets into a gunfight with security because they think he's a Space-Muslim and that means they have to commit a coup to stop him bringing about sharia law [despite the fact that they have incredibly shaky grounds for him being a Space-Muslim and that they have no proof he's done anything wrong except 'be a Space-Muslim'].
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Jan 27, 2016 01:44
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If only Jar-Jar Binks didn't ask for a vote for Space Fascism. Thanks Jar-Jar. Thar-Thar.
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Jan 27, 2016 02:08
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Extremely important fact: It is never actually revealed - at any point in the films - that Sheev Palpatine and Darth Sidious are the same person. People might object that of course they're the same person; they're played by the same actor, and so-on. But the fact is that this is purely subtextual. It is never shown, or even really stated. It's purely an assumption based on the casting - and plenty of films cast actors in dual roles. Palpatine and Sidious remain entirely different characters for duration of all three prequel films. And then, at the end, Darth Sidious simply vanishes from the narrative. Moreover: none of the protagonists actually see Darth Sidious, or become aware of his existence at any point. It's incredibly rare for anyone to interact with him at all. It's quite likely that Yoda goes to his grave believing Dooku was the Sith Lord behind the Seperatist movement. And is he wrong? SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 02:17 on Jan 27, 2016 |
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Jan 27, 2016 02:15
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quote:OBI-WAN: He was deceived by a lie. We all were. It appears that the Chancellor is behind everything, including the war. Palpatine is the Sith Lord we've been looking for. After the death of Count Dooku, Anakin became his new apprentice. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsM-fpkK2aQ quote:YODA: I hear a new apprentice, you have. Emperor, or should I call you Darth Sidious. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUbHibeDVHE turtlecrunch fucked around with this message at 02:31 on Jan 27, 2016 |
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Jan 27, 2016 02:26
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:It is never actually revealed - at any point in the films - that Sheev Palpatine and Darth Sidious are the same person. The fact that Sheev and Sidious share an actor is just another element of the prequels using visual storytelling over explicit dialogue. Look at Dooku's face, just as he is about to be executed by Anakin. That's the look of the apprentice betrayed by his master. I don't have any screenshots, but look at how wrinkly Sidious is in the holograms in TPM (and AotC). When Sheev's 'mask' drops during his fight with Mace Windu, the same wrinkly face emerges from Palpatine. The Sith Lord was coming from inside the Chancellor.
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Jan 27, 2016 02:37
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Seriously though, why didn't Obi-Wan either finish Anakin off or help him? I get that he's an irredeemable monster at that point but just standing there while someone is loving burning alive is cold, man.
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Jan 27, 2016 02:40
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Y Kant Ozma Diet posted:Seriously though, why didn't Obi-Wan either finish Anakin off or help him? I get that he's an irredeemable monster at that point but just standing there while someone is loving burning alive is cold, man. Obi-Wan is a hero from a more civilized time.
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Jan 27, 2016 02:41
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turtlecrunch posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsM-fpkK2aQ Quite right (and, actually, I'd forgotten that Yoda accuses him of being Sidious), but I'm talking on a purely formal level. It's like having a Superman movie where there's a minor character named Clark Kent, who happens to be played by the same actor. There isn't a single instance where Sidious changes into Chancellor clothes or says "oh yeah, I'm Sidious". They remain distinct characters - even when Chancellor Sheev Palpatine transforms into Emperor Sheev Palpatine. He does not transform into Emperor Sidious.
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Jan 27, 2016 02:51
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quote:It is never actually revealed - at any point in the films - that Sheev Palpatine and Darth Sidious are the same person. You idiots! These are not them! You've captured their stunt doubles!
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Jan 27, 2016 02:58
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Neurolimal posted:You could say "well the senate wouldn't know who sidious is", but he literally fights with and shoots lightning at the Jedi head master despite having no Jedi training, in an area already established to have cameras. It wouldn't take a genius to connect the dots. We went over this earlier in the thread, but the security cameras seen earlier in the Jedi Temple don't show Palpatine's office, they show the Temple (duh). The recording is of Palpatine arriving at the Temple after Anakin's done killing everyone. He tells Anakin he's a good boy, hands him his lunch, and sends him off to school on Mustafar.
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Jan 27, 2016 03:03
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Neurolimal posted:The point is that the Jedi know Sidious orchestrated the planet invasion, the cameras would reveal that Palpatine is a sith lord, and the dumb Rule of Two thing means that he must be Sidious because Dooku died like a day ago. Thus meaning that he sicced the trade federation on a senator to persuade her into voting him in. I know it's mentioned in one of the novelizations, which are canon I suppose, but is the rule of two ever mentioned by the Sith in the movies? I think it is only mentioned by the Jedi Council in Phantom Menace who turns out to not know poo poo about the Sith at that point.
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Jan 27, 2016 03:36
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This is correct, in the movies it's only mentionedoutright in Phantom Menace when they're talking about running into/defeating Darth Maul, though in Revenge of the Sith we see it implied when Palpatine drops information about Plagueis and he himself being a Sith to Anankin.
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Jan 27, 2016 03:41
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Yoda talks to the Sith who created the Rule of Two in the TV show. He's voiced by Mark Hamill. 
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Jan 27, 2016 04:09
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Extremely important fact: Jesus.
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Jan 27, 2016 04:14
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Vintersorg posted:Jesus. I really enjoyed the lame excuse when that got shut down.
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Jan 27, 2016 04:18
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Extremely important fact:
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Jan 27, 2016 04:20
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It's a funny inverse of the "what is the black goo???" reaction to Prometheus. Dooku tells Obiwan that a man named Sidious is influencing senators, but there is basically no evidence that Sidious exists - let alone that Palpatine is Sidious. It's just something that everyone takes for granted based on two points: 1) Palpatine is Evil. 2) The Jedi Bible (Jible) says "always two there are." That's it.
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Jan 27, 2016 04:26
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The dramatic reveal of the next film will be that Snoke is actually Biggest Luke.
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Jan 27, 2016 04:27
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No, Snoke is obvious Sidious, who we haven't seen yet in the flesh.
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Jan 27, 2016 04:29
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