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Lord_Adonis posted:That is certainly part of it, but Labour seem to be as evasive about these Brexit issues as the Tories (Without the antagonistic rhetoric of course). Brexit is a huge point of division within Labour - 40 of the to 50 Leave and Remain constituencies have Labour MPs while the memberships skews heavily Remain. Talking about Brexit in anything other than vague terms is basically a losing proposition for Labour either way, hence the focus on good socialist policies to win people over, especially since the Tories are so abysmal in that regard right now.
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May 30, 2017 12:09
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ll4-Ihafp3w
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May 30, 2017 12:09
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sebzilla posted:Also, apparently J-Corb just suffered a case of the forgotten figures on Women's Hour. Started to look them up on his iPad. How hard is it to have key information about the policy you're on to promote written on a bit of paper as an aide memoire? If anyone wants to listen to this, they'll be playing it on the BBC News channel every 15 minutes.
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May 30, 2017 12:10
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I can't get enough of are Dan
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disappointed thats not the actual sky news youtube channel
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May 30, 2017 12:12
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What are the news gonna be about this whole week? Pick carefully! - About how Theresa May was absolutely terrible and hosed up every question even though they softballed her, like seriously that was a mess - About how Corbyn did pretty good, nothing crazy but compared to May it was a world of difference - About how Theresa May didn't know any of the five or six figures they asked her about, because they don't exist - About how Corbyn didn't know a figure but was going to look for it The answer is they're going to pile on Corbyn for the last one while ignoring everything else, because the media all loving sucks. Hope is a lie
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May 30, 2017 12:16
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Captain No-mates posted:I suppose a performance like that is what happens when you have a coronation instead of a leadership election. my man
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May 30, 2017 12:19
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I'm starting to get really interested in Theresa May's future as PM. Assuming she squeaks through the GE with a lower-than-hoped-for majority the entire gambit is going to look like a gigantic fuckup on her part. Her credibility on a personal level has already been shot to poo poo in the last couple of weeks, and in the futue we've got the Brexit negotiations, which aren't going to go well at all. Will her backbenchers be prepared to leave her in place until 2021 or 2022? Will May be prepared to resign if the knives come out, or will she force her backbenchers to torpedo the entire government and possibly force another GE in a year or two? I just can't see her surviving as PM unless she somehow pulls a gigantic majority out of this GE.
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May 30, 2017 12:30
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Oberleutnant posted:I'm starting to get really interested in Theresa May's future as PM. Assuming she squeaks through the GE with a lower-than-hoped-for majority the entire gambit is going to look like a gigantic fuckup on her part. Her credibility on a personal level has already been shot to poo poo in the last couple of weeks, and in the futue we've got the Brexit negotiations, which aren't going to go well at all. All I want for Christmas is a second general election of Corbyn vs. whichever loving mug tries to take over from weak'n'wobbly.
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May 30, 2017 12:32
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Oberleutnant posted:I'm starting to get really interested in Theresa May's future as PM. Assuming she squeaks through the GE with a lower-than-hoped-for majority the entire gambit is going to look like a gigantic fuckup on her part. Her credibility on a personal level has already been shot to poo poo in the last couple of weeks, and in the futue we've got the Brexit negotiations, which aren't going to go well at all. I'm starting to think she wants to lose. She knows she can't deliver on her brexit promises and want to leave labour holding the ball.
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May 30, 2017 12:34
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thorsilver posted:No problem, I'm sorry I went off a bit there -- I'm very touchy about this stuff because I get a lot of poo poo due to my background, even though I've worked my arse off for the trade-union movement (as in: 4 years as branch president, presiding over the biggest strike turnouts we'd had in ten years, and two years of contract negotiations so stressful I now have permanent health problems). It's close to my heart and it's been quite painful so I tend to react aggressively. Just wanted to thank the two of you for this. My experiences coming from an upper middle class background is there is a lot of tory support simply due wealth, with a definite influence as ronya pointed out from families who fled eastern Europe/soviet bloc countries keeping a strong hate for leftist thoughts. Something I also saw a lot was friends who took an interest in leftist views like i did from my teens onwards ending up burning out due to a lot of anti semitism they encountered in leftist circles that tended to be dismissed as Jewish people equivelating criticism of Israel with criticism of Jewish people. Which I know drat well my dad's side of the family DOES do, but tarring any attempts to talk about anti-Semitism from leftists with that brush can be fsirly draining, particularly when hand in hand with the idea that we as a society have universally condemned antisemitism so it's "dealt with" I mean I could go into details about the way anti miliband dog whistles vs the criticism under Corbyn were handled from both sides but I worry it might be getting a bit too niche and deraily.
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May 30, 2017 12:35
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This is so The Thick of It https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/869502097951248384
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May 30, 2017 12:36
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Lord of the Llamas posted:I never said a sample size of 500 was "bad", I just said it meant that there isn't a statistically significant shift in the Labour support according to the 2015 and 2017 results. It was you that brought up statistical significance (and I misread the tweet which did in fact say 13%). I haven't seen anyone suggest that individual polls are seriously meaningful.
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May 30, 2017 12:37
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I think there's a difference between "we don't know the figure" and "i don't remember the figure, it's here in my notes" but jesus loving christ he just crumbled there.
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May 30, 2017 12:39
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C'mon Jezza get ya head in the game son.
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May 30, 2017 12:39
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Oberleutnant posted:I'm starting to get really interested in Theresa May's future as PM. Assuming she squeaks through the GE with a lower-than-hoped-for majority the entire gambit is going to look like a gigantic fuckup on her part. Her credibility on a personal level has already been shot to poo poo in the last couple of weeks, and in the futue we've got the Brexit negotiations, which aren't going to go well at all. I agree, but I think she'll 'survive' in the short to medium term, so as to let her be the one that takes the bulk of the flak for the inevitable clusterfuck that Brexit will be. With a lower than expected majority, she will look rather weak and foolish, with her 'brand' ruined. So why not have her name be the main one associated with whatever unequal treaty-like agreement we are forced to eventually sign? That way someone can stab her in the back afterward, coming out clean by blaming her for it and pretending they would have been strong enough to get that mystical BEST DEAL FOR BRITAIN, while accepting it as a fait accompli. This isn't to say that backbenchers won't be constantly sniping, raging and publically posturing over the next 2 years, massively undermining her: they will certainly want to establish their public Brexit credentials so that they look good for whatever post-Brexit leadership challenge takes place.
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May 30, 2017 12:41
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Oberleutnant posted:I'm starting to get really interested in Theresa May's future as PM. Assuming she squeaks through the GE with a lower-than-hoped-for majority the entire gambit is going to look like a gigantic fuckup on her part. Her credibility on a personal level has already been shot to poo poo in the last couple of weeks, and in the futue we've got the Brexit negotiations, which aren't going to go well at all. A friend who works at the Home Office was saying yesterday that the general feeling there is she weathered the poison chalice of that job pretty well. I personally disagree with pretty much everything she did there but I suspect there is better support behind the scenes than you would expect given her awful ability to interact with the public.
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May 30, 2017 12:43
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May just made a joke along the lines of how Jeremy's aides put him in a smart blue suit for an interview with Paxman, but he would be left "naked and alone" when discussing with Europe. She then said something like it's not an "image anyone wants to imagine" and got a chukle, then held and nodded at the audience, clearly hoping for a bigger laugh. Also, I'm entirely certain that the majority of the discussions will be taking place with various different aides and consultants, not exclusively by the PM.
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May 30, 2017 12:45
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https://twitter.com/jmsclee/status/869501791494447104
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May 30, 2017 12:45
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His Divine Shadow posted:I'm starting to think she wants to lose. She knows she can't deliver on her brexit promises and want to leave labour holding the ball. Joke's on her, the media won't allow her to lose.
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May 30, 2017 12:46
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God, I accept that that's a fumble, but christ, "Teresa May openly laughed at by the audience" didn't even ding in last night's news.
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May 30, 2017 12:58
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knox_harrington posted:A friend who works at the Home Office was saying yesterday that the general feeling there is she weathered the poison chalice of that job pretty well. I personally disagree with pretty much everything she did there but I suspect there is better support behind the scenes than you would expect given her awful ability to interact with the public. A large part of this is that she was opposed by Yvette Cooper through most of her tenure, who let May get away with literal rape because Cooper wanted to be seen as tougher on crime than the Tories.
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May 30, 2017 12:59
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spectralent posted:God, I accept that that's a fumble, but christ, "Teresa May openly laughed at by the audience" didn't even ding in last night's news. I think perhaps you've made too much of the laughing incidents. She wasn't laughed at by a crowd of undecided voters - a third of the people in that small audience had identified themselves as labour voters and presumably the heckling/laughing came from them, and only a handful of people actually did it.
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May 30, 2017 13:01
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Pissflaps posted:I think perhaps you've made too much of the laughing incidents. She wasn't laughed at by a crowd of undecided voters - a third of the people in that small audience had identified themselves as labour voters and presumably the heckling/laughing came from them, and only a handful of people actually did it. You have all the time in the world for everyone but Corbyn.
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May 30, 2017 13:05
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Regarde Aduck posted:You have all the time in the world for everyone but Corbyn. I don't have 'time' for Theresa May but pretending that a few hecklers in an audience is big news is just silly. Edit: Oh dear https://twitter.com/Labour_Insider/status/869511359058325504
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May 30, 2017 13:07
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ronya posted:in terms of raw numbers irish migrants to england easily roll all over the others, even the great big muslim south asian demograpic clump Well not any more anyway Twas not long ago "the Irish vote" was still a relatively organised block that could swing results in select constituencies (Islington for example). There is a reason the Irish society is a distinct recognised affiliated society of the Labour party after all
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May 30, 2017 13:07
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Regarde Aduck posted:You have all the time in the world for everyone but Corbyn. It represents who he feels should be leading the Labour Party. @pissflaps: wouldnt you expect that the third of the audience that was Tory would have laughed and heckled Corbyn, if the only cause of it was partisanship?
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May 30, 2017 13:09
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BBC news website leading with two links to the same story about Corbyn not knowing the figures. No mention of the Paxman interviews. Corbyn hosed up but this is a transparent hit job.
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May 30, 2017 13:10
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mehall posted:@pissflaps: wouldnt you expect that the third of the audience that was Tory would have laughed and heckled Corbyn, if the only cause of it was partisanship? No I wouldn't expect it, but I wouldn't have been surprised if it had happened.
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May 30, 2017 13:12
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Regarde Aduck posted:BBC news website leading with two links to the same story about Corbyn not knowing the figures. No mention of the Paxman interviews. Corbyn hosed up but this is a transparent hit job. No, you see MSM bias doesn't exist, and the reason that people still think May is any good is because she is good. *Checks newspapers and BBC* Yep, definitely no bias there. Funny, even farage can muster a compliment on how well it went last night, yet most papers and sites don't cover it at all, or say that May "won" somehow. Looking forward to the handwaving from the usual suspects on how this isn't bias and is somehow CORBYN BAD.
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May 30, 2017 13:16
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Pissflaps posted:I don't have 'time' for Theresa May but pretending that a few hecklers in an audience is big news is just silly. this is some tintower level posting
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May 30, 2017 13:17
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Don't Lol me posted:No, you see MSM bias doesn't exist, and the reason that people still think May is any good is because she is good. This doesn't chime with the glee at the bad press the Tory's election campaign has received over the last few weeks. Is bias only a problem when we don't like the coverage? Jose posted:this is some tintower level posting Emma Barnett is the person who interviewed Corbyn earlier.
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May 30, 2017 13:18
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Don't Lol me posted:No, you see MSM bias doesn't exist, and the reason that people still think May is any good is because she is good. Um actually it was a draw and Corbyn did better than expected lol *Theresa May doesn't answer a single question coherently, is laughed out of the studio*
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May 30, 2017 13:18
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Pissflaps posted:
its the posting tweets from randoms nobody cares or knows of
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May 30, 2017 13:19
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Don't Lol me posted:Looking forward to the handwaving from the usual suspects on how this isn't bias and is somehow CORBYN BAD. No you see, he just needs a better media strategy
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May 30, 2017 13:19
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Pissflaps posted:This doesn't chime with the glee at the bad press the Tory's election campaign has received over the last few weeks. The papers will criticise the tories when they cant praise them. They'll near to never praise labour.
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May 30, 2017 13:20
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mehall posted:The only cheers the Prime Minister managed on last nights debate was by repeating "No deal is better than a bad deal" over and over. What's great about this is how no deal is basically the worst possible outcome and nobody is calling her out on it. "Give me what I want or I'll shoot myself in the face." I suppose negotiating like a suicide threatening incel is a form of negotiation...
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May 30, 2017 13:26
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Pissflaps posted:This doesn't chime with the glee at the bad press the Tory's election campaign has received over the last few weeks. Bias is a problem full stop. Kind of like when you allude that Labour has had even handed coverage the last month, when really its been the Independent and Mirror being neutral (and occasionally BBC), and everything else is pro tory. Just because May is so poo poo that even the tory papers occasionally criticize her, that doesn't mean that there is no bias for her. You yourself admitted May was appalling last night, so where are all the articles about that? Why does the BBC have 2 pieces on Corbyn fluffing a figure?
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May 30, 2017 13:28
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His Divine Shadow posted:I'm starting to think she wants to lose. She knows she can't deliver on her brexit promises and want to leave labour holding the ball. The deadline for brexit as set by the tories is 2019, which would have been right before a 2020 general election, this snap election is just because by all evidence the talks will not have gone anywhere/outright failed by then and the tories would be dead in the water. Having the next election in 2022 or since they're getting rid of term lengths, any time May feels like it gives the tories some extra time to get it done or at least 2 years to blame labour and immigrants for sabotaging the talks.
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May 30, 2017 13:29
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Don't Lol me posted:You yourself admitted May was appalling last night, so where are all the articles about that? Why does the BBC have 2 pieces on Corbyn fluffing a figure? What do you mean by 'admitted'? That implies I've described her in positive terms in the past, which is something that hasn't happened.
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May 30, 2017 13:31
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His Divine Shadow posted:I'm starting to think she wants to lose. She knows she can't deliver on her brexit promises and want to leave labour holding the ball. I think she knows Brexit is going to be an almighty shitstorm but believed her own hype and grabbed the opportunity to lock in a huge majority until 2022. The only problem with the plan is she's poo poo. Its saving grace is that Labour are pretty poo poo too, despite the Corbster improving a bit recently.
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May 30, 2017 13:32
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