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iospace posted:A significant number of farmers get gov money. They know it's a handout but DON'T YOU DARE COMPARE IT TO WELFARE. They say it's different because, as farmers, they actually work for their money. Plus if it wasn't for farmers nobody would get to eat so obviously farmers deserve to be super ultra respected, have their votes count triple, get to decide what the Constitution means, and also be ultra mega rich. Oh and get all the land, too. All. Of. It.
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Sep 4, 2016 19:01
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ToxicSlurpee posted:They say it's different because, as farmers, they actually work for their money. Plus if it wasn't for farmers nobody would get to eat so obviously farmers deserve to be super ultra respected, have their votes count triple, get to decide what the Constitution means, and also be ultra mega rich. Oh and get all the land, too. All. Of. It. Never mind that most agriculture is handled by factory farms owned by large international agro-business corporations like Archer Daniels Midland, Kraft, Tyson, or JBS S.A. and most labor employed by them are migrant workers from Central and South America.
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Sep 4, 2016 19:21
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iospace posted:Related: Farmers are probably the only people who I can feel sorry for when they get hit by the estate tax. Their assets can easily add up over 5m (farm equipment isn't cheap) Baww i have enough money that if i liquidated all my assets i could live off the interest but the mean ol' government wants to take my tractor bawwwwwwwww
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Sep 4, 2016 19:30
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Parallel Paraplegic posted:Baww i have enough money that if i liquidated all my assets i could live off the interest but the mean ol' government wants to take my tractor bawwwwwwwww Now, on one side, you're right in saying that each of the heirs is gonna end up with a pretty decent check at the end, but that ignores just how interconnected family farms are with each other. For example, if three sons and their dad all farm land near each other, they're each going to make equipment purchases strategically. If the four farms need two combines between all of them to harvest the land, two of them are gonna buy the combine, then use it on all four of their farms. Now, they're gonna need somewhere to store what they harvest with those two combines, so one of the other brothers puts up a small elevator on their farm, but they all store their harvest there, since it's far cheaper for one of them to build a big enough one to cover them all than for each of them to build a smaller one. The fourth farmer then purchases the necessary trucks to get the harvest from the combines to the elevator, then also to market when the time is right. This kind of equipment and land sharing happens all the time, as it's the only way that family farmers can remain competitive with corporate farming. Now, say one of them dies, let's say the one who built the couple million dollar elevator that they all went in on together. While the rest of the family farmers may be his heirs, when the estate tax kicks in, suddenly the three remaining farmers need to either come up with a million dollars in taxes or sell off that part of the farm, which means that none of them have that elevator to use anymore. Maybe they sell off one of the combines, and some of the land, since if they can't harvest it, what's the point of keeping it? Now they've got an elevator with way more capacity than they need, since they just had to sell off half the land, since they can't harvest it anymore, or they lose the elevator, but retain the land, which is better but creates a whole new set of problems. Nowadays, younger farmers (i.e. those under 50) anticipate this problem well in advance and deal with it in a variety of ways such as forming cooperatives and other legal entities for common purchases, but that's by no means every farmer, particularly not the ones who are dying now who have been farming since the 1960s. If they were stubborn and didn't want to do any planning or were gonna do it but dropped dead in their field from a heart attack, suddenly there's a huge mess that doesn't just affect the estate, but the livelihoods of family members on whom they relied. These aren't the people that the estate tax was targeted at, but they're getting caught up in it anyways. Azathoth has issued a correction as of 00:33 on Sep 5, 2016 |
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Sep 5, 2016 00:31
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How many families are affected in that way in the average year?
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Sep 5, 2016 01:20
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CPBB sez the number of family farms or small businesses that qualify is about 20. Folks also aren't considering all the extant exemptions in the tax, or a bunch of elements that let you do things like spread out payment over time.
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Sep 5, 2016 02:00
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No clue, and I don't know if there's a way to even know, but living in a rural area, I hear crap like "look how much money farmers have, that combine costs a half a million dollars" far too frequently. While most of the farmers I know aren't poor, they're definitely not the kind of wealthy that should be the targets of estate taxes. It's becoming less of an issue nowadays, since people hear horror stories from friends or more distant family and then take steps to deal with it long before it becomes an issue, but there's still a lot of old farmers around who have been working the land for decades and just don't think about this kind of thing. The disconnect comes from how many farmers look at what they do and don't think of themselves as essentially being small business owners, at least not to the same degree that someone operating just about any other small business would. Most everyone I know who's a farmer grew up on a farm and got their start in one way or another from their parents/grandparents either giving them land to farm, or helping them purchase land to farm nearby, then helping them farm said land, so the idea that the farm is really a business in the sense of needing to file articles of incorporation and that associated bullshit. The younger generation of farmers, really those 50 and under, generally understand this, and it's why just about every farmer or allied agribusiness owner I know has either an associates or a bachelors degree. Just think about all the people who die without filing a will or making any kind of plans. Even smart folks, folks with lots of money, folks who should know better do exactly this. Now imagine that when these people die that it's not just a legal headache for their heirs to sort out the whole drat thing, but that it directly affects their livelihoods as well. Anyways, this is really tangential to the thread, and I don't want to drag the thread further off topic, it's just I've known a couple farmers who passed away unexpectedly in the last year, and it really showed up close how interconnected everything is out here, and Parallel Paraplegic's comment struck a nerve. EDIT: Discendo Vox posted:CPBB sez the number of family farms or small businesses that qualify is about 20. Folks also aren't considering all the extant exemptions in the tax, or a bunch of elements that let you do things like spread out payment over time. Well, looks like I'm totally in left field on this one. Apologies for my confusion.
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Sep 5, 2016 02:18
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Nah, I grew up in the country too so I know what you're talking about. But it can be surprising to compare what people say over a beer versus cold statistics, especially when matters of money and DA GUBMINT are involved.
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Sep 5, 2016 02:51
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Discendo Vox posted:CPBB sez the number of family farms or small businesses that qualify is about 20. Folks also aren't considering all the extant exemptions in the tax, or a bunch of elements that let you do things like spread out payment over time. I'll take my lumps on this one too. Thanks for the source.
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Sep 5, 2016 04:42
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You incorporate your farm as a business like a sane person so you don't sell it off for estate tax. There are thousands of farm lawyers around the country that ensure that doesn't happen
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Sep 5, 2016 05:20
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Discendo Vox posted:CPBB sez the number of family farms or small businesses that qualify is about 20. Folks also aren't considering all the extant exemptions in the tax, or a bunch of elements that let you do things like spread out payment over time. At first I thought you missed like, a percent sign or something but nope, 20 total. I didn't even expect it to be that low and I assumed it was lower than claimed already 
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Sep 5, 2016 05:30
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NBD- I found that source because I was looking to see if the estate tax was marginally applied! Do note that CPBB is a Democrat-leaning source.
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Sep 5, 2016 05:41
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Sep 5, 2016 06:43
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Goodpancakes posted:You incorporate your farm as a business like a sane person so you don't sell it off for estate tax. There are thousands of farm lawyers around the country that ensure that doesn't happen I could totally believe that this was a problem at one point though.
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Sep 5, 2016 07:30
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Lmao his entire lifes journey was to get that face to this point
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Sep 5, 2016 08:25
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What a beautiful JPEG.
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Sep 5, 2016 13:40
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Volcott posted:What a beautiful JPEG. It's quite an artifact 
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Sep 5, 2016 13:48
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So what does he expect people to do, break him and his hick family out of jail for patriotism?
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Sep 5, 2016 13:52
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The estate tax hurting farmers is one of the biggest boogeymen rich people have came up with.
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Sep 5, 2016 14:02
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hobbesmaster posted:I could totally believe that this was a problem at one point though. I find it dubious, farms were much smaller through time. Increasing automation and incorporation has really changed farming over the years.
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Sep 5, 2016 14:45
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-Noted slave owner Thomas Jefferson
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Sep 5, 2016 15:00
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TheBalor posted:-Noted slave owner Thomas Jefferson "Let me tell you something about the negro..." - Cliven Bundy
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Sep 5, 2016 15:01
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Geostomp posted:So what does he expect people to do, break him and his hick family out of jail for patriotism? Its this kind of poo poo thats gonna land him and his brother in supermax.
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Sep 5, 2016 22:23
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Geostomp posted:So what does he expect people to do, break him and his hick family out of jail for patriotism? That or pick up where they left off. Didn't they explicitly intend on inspiring the Glorious White Man's Rebellion?
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Sep 5, 2016 23:51
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Okay, how can I turn off goddamn animated backgrounds?  At the end of every loop it causes a brief hitch.
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Sep 6, 2016 04:10
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ryanbundyface.css
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Sep 6, 2016 04:30
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GreyjoyBastard posted:Okay, how can I turn off goddamn animated backgrounds? page style->no style or block the asset. couldn't find out how to do either of those things in chrome so I'm using firefox atm.
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Sep 6, 2016 04:30
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I was able to block it with this rule:code:
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Sep 6, 2016 04:43
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It's doing the same for me, which is a drat shame-and I'm too illiterate to do what others have mentioned so far without further explanation.
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Sep 6, 2016 07:23
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GreyjoyBastard posted:Okay, how can I turn off goddamn animated backgrounds? Go to chrome://flags Change the two GPU Rasterizations or whatever to Enabled and give it 4 threads
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Sep 6, 2016 10:47
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GreyjoyBastard posted:Okay, how can I turn off goddamn animated backgrounds? What EHF said. Or don't use chrome. Your pick.
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Sep 6, 2016 11:45
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Farewell sweet prince https://twitter.com/leszaitz/status/773158642304491520
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Sep 6, 2016 16:59
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Trial starts Wednesday, right? Is it going to be streaming?
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Sep 6, 2016 18:09
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WrenP-Complete posted:Trial starts Wednesday, right? Is it going to be streaming? Nah, the prosecution dropped that request. Twitter feeds to watch are: https://twitter.com/maxoregonian https://twitter.com/ryanjhaas https://twitter.com/amandapeacher https://twitter.com/jjmacnab edit: Ammon Bundy's filings are filled with nonsense. I may create a PACER account to access more of them- if so, I'll be sure to share. Discendo Vox has issued a correction as of 18:20 on Sep 6, 2016 |
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Sep 6, 2016 18:12
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Discendo Vox posted:Nah, the prosecution dropped that request. Twitter feeds to watch are: Yesss I am so grateful to work remotely.
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Sep 6, 2016 18:15
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Bundy's entrapment filing Motion to dismiss counsel sincerely yours, ryan c of the bundy society edit: fixed, appreciate the congrats Discendo Vox has issued a correction as of 19:12 on Sep 6, 2016 |
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Sep 6, 2016 18:57
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Discendo Vox posted:Bundy's entrapment filing Both of those link to the entrapment document. I respectfully pray that the poster edits the links.
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Sep 6, 2016 19:05
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So is the whole 'Comes now the X' formatting a sovcit funnovation or an actual legal thing?
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Sep 6, 2016 19:06
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also wait, is he claiming that the government has to disprove entrapment rather than him having to prove it? because i'm pretty sure that's not how entrapment works.
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Sep 6, 2016 19:07
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Mors Rattus posted:So is the whole 'Comes now the X' formatting a sovcit funnovation or an actual legal thing? It's a thing- varies by court system whether or not it's used. I don't think anyone likes it. No idea if it's required in Oregon court. edit: the pro se forms on the court website don't have it, but they're completely different from Bundy's filings, since genuine forms, meant to be uber user friendly. I have no idea about the structure/detail of the entrapment stuff- it's not my bailiwick. Discendo Vox has issued a correction as of 19:27 on Sep 6, 2016 |
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Sep 6, 2016 19:24
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