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Tf is going on in london ? https://twitter.com/dorianlehen/status/844568402052177920
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Mar 22, 2017 16:20
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unpacked robinhood posted:Tf is going on in london ?
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Mar 22, 2017 16:28
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yall should have taken jez corbyn a bit more seriously
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Mar 22, 2017 16:35
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Flowers For Algeria posted:yall should have taken jez corbyn a bit more seriously Pearl Jam tried to warn us.
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Mar 22, 2017 16:37
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Ban lovely suburban crossovers. Is it a WV ? They're never done killing people
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Mar 22, 2017 16:55
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http://www.dn.pt/mundo/interior/ministro-das-financas-alemao-aprecia-muito-o-trabalho-de-dijsselbloem-5742088.html Schauble comes out in support of Dijsselbloem. It'd be funny if it wasn't so blatantly racist. We really are a lovely Union.
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Mar 22, 2017 18:46
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orange sky posted:We really are a lovely Union. What's the US then though. Or African Union, say
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Mar 22, 2017 18:48
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Private Speech posted:What's the US then though. Are you saying that the United States' union and democracy is worse than the EU? At least they have loving fiscal transfers
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Mar 22, 2017 18:54
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African Union has less white people in leading positions so it's better by default, and US doesn't have any states exiting yet.LemonDrizzle posted:Someone used a car to run down multiple pedestrians on Westminster bridge, and someone (possibly the same person, possibly not) ran into the houses of parliament and attacked a police officer with a knife before being shot by the other officers in the building. How long before the brexit delays get blamed for this?
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Mar 22, 2017 19:01
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Private Speech posted:What's the US then though. Toplowtech fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Mar 22, 2017 |
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Mar 22, 2017 19:01
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orange sky posted:Are you saying that the United States' union and democracy is worse than the EU? Sortof, they have serious austerity mandates baked in too, though. Not to mention that in general public services provision sucks way more (though there's lower taxes to compensate). The US isn't all that great either. e: Good article about mandated austerity for US states: The Case for Allowing U.S. States to Declare Bankruptcy (bloomberg) In particular: quote:States, unlike cities and counties, currently can’t declare bankruptcy. The case for allowing it is that a well-run proceeding apportions losses fairly and fast. Lenders and bondholders absorb some of the pain, but so do government workers and retirees. Taxes go up and government services are cut back, but ideally not as severely as in an uncontrolled default. The result is a government that’s streamlined, not gutted. quote:The principle that states are responsible for their own debts goes back to the 1840s, when Congress refused to assume the debts of states that had overborrowed to finance a canal- and railroad-building craze. Chastened by the episode, many states passed balanced-budget amendments and took other steps to keep their debt under strict control. It was “a pivotal moment in the history of U.S. federalism,” Jonathan Rodden, a political scientist at Stanford and the Hoover Institution, wrote in a 2012 paper. e2: I admit that from a constitutional standpoint US is much better, but it's also over 200 years old and was created after a very unifying event (and even then there were a lot of conflicts over federalist ideas). And if you read about the early years it was economically very much state vs state too, with barely a smidgen of the greater federal solidarity that came eventually. Private Speech fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Mar 22, 2017 |
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Mar 22, 2017 19:02
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orange sky posted:Are you saying that the United States' union and democracy is worse than the EU? Lol the American democracy is a garbage fire, gerrymandering and voter suppression is rampant and a lot of offices have literally one candidate running for them At least in the EU elections the polling stations aren't deliberately moved away from 'undesirable' voters, aren't staffed inadequately and don't have arbitrary opening/closing hours to further discourage certain people from voting
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Mar 22, 2017 19:40
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orange sky posted:Are you saying that the United States' union and democracy is worse than the EU? Still prefer Djisselbloem over Trump, thanks!
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Mar 22, 2017 19:49
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Trogdos! posted:At least in the EU elections the polling stations aren't deliberately moved away from 'undesirable' voters, aren't staffed inadequately and don't have arbitrary opening/closing hours to further discourage certain people from voting Toplowtech fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Mar 22, 2017 |
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Mar 22, 2017 20:01
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Just because there's more evidence of the dumpster fire that the US democracy is doesn't mean that the same isn't happening in Europe. I'm not defending the US, just saying that the EU for all the good things it definitely brings lets a lot (a lot) of its people down - and the EU's values exist precisely not to let those people down. The US was supposed to be much more FYGM but apparently having huge differences in pretty much every aspect of life in Europe isn't a big deal. I'm currently in a place with 2 belgians and 1 german. It's completely ridiculous the talks they have about spending vacations in 200 different places in the world, spending a shitton of money in dinners, "ocasionally" going skiing, their top of the line cars, while me & everyone I know barely have money for rent while working the same industry and having the same positions. E: and then there's the occasional complaint about refugees because they make car alarms go off or burned down some tents where they were kept for over 4 months. sorry for ruining your idyllic life man, maybe people from war-torn countries should just go back!
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Mar 22, 2017 20:32
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Maybe you should stop drinking and whoring Orange Sky maybe then you would get poo poo done.
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Mar 22, 2017 21:01
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Trogdos! posted:Lol the American democracy is a garbage fire, gerrymandering and voter suppression is rampant and a lot of offices have literally one candidate running for them To be fair, most of the offices with one candidate running would be better if they had zero candidates running and got filled by appointed bureaucrats.
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Mar 22, 2017 22:40
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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https://twitter.com/insoniascarvao/status/844564975322566661
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Mar 22, 2017 22:50
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From your posting I never imagined that you were so old.
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Mar 22, 2017 22:57
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orange sky posted:Just because there's more evidence of the dumpster fire that the US democracy is doesn't mean that the same isn't happening in Europe. I'm confused are you saying that you are in a 4 person houseshare with 2 Belgians and a German working in the same industry and job but somehow they're rich and you're not?
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Mar 22, 2017 22:58
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Lord of the Llamas posted:I'm confused are you saying that you are in a 4 person houseshare with 2 Belgians and a German working in the same industry and job but somehow they're rich and you're not? The english expression can mean that as well, you're right, but no. I'm at an event with those guys.
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Mar 22, 2017 22:58
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Lord of the Llamas posted:I'm confused are you saying that you are in a 4 person houseshare with 2 Belgians and a German working in the same industry and job but somehow they're rich and you're not? It's very common in Portugal for EU foreigners to get shitload more than dirty Portuguese for basically the same job. Speaking any non latin language turns you into a near fetish object in this dumpster country.
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Mar 22, 2017 23:02
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orange sky posted:I'm currently in a place with 2 belgians and 1 german. It's completely ridiculous the talks they have about spending vacations in 200 different places in the world, spending a shitton of money in dinners, "ocasionally" going skiing, their top of the line cars, while me & everyone I know barely have money for rent while working the same industry and having the same positions. Why aren't you pulling down those big bucks? Nobody is stopping you from putting in a application to a company in Belgium or Germany. Obviously if you are going to live in Portugal you will make less. I also make less than someone in Switzerland or Norway (or coastal US) would make in my position. NihilismNow fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Mar 22, 2017 |
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Mar 22, 2017 23:17
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NihilismNow posted:Why aren't you pulling down those big bucks? Nobody is stopping you from putting in a application to a company in Belgium or Germany. Obviously if you are going to live in Portugal you will make less. I also make less than someone in Switzerland or Norway (or coastal US) would make in my position. It's not just making less, it's making 6 to 10 times less. It's especially frustrating that a lot of the projects they do is for the European Comission, whose large, large majority of projects go directly to Benelux companies. You're not wrong, I could go there, I don't because of personal reasons. I'm not saying the EU should somehow magically make all our wages bigger. I just don't think it is at all fair to call the EU a great union when such differences are allowed to exist and on top of that we get all the bad rep, we're the "lazy ones". gently caress that labeling, our lives are extremely poo poo compared to people the other countries'.
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Mar 22, 2017 23:25
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orange sky posted:I'm not saying the EU should somehow magically make all our wages bigger. I just don't think it is at all fair to call the EU a great union when such differences are allowed to exist and on top of that we get all the bad rep, we're the "lazy ones". gently caress that labeling, our lives are extremely poo poo compared to people the other countries'. A cynical person might say the difference in wages is part of why the EU exists in the first place, so business owners can use cheap southern and eastern European labour to break the bargaining position of labour in countries where workers had a better life. I don't dispute thatstandards of living in western/northern europe are better but for the working class they have been declining.
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Mar 22, 2017 23:50
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orange sky posted:It's not just making less, it's making 6 to 10 times less. It's especially frustrating that a lot of the projects they do is for the European Comission, whose large, large majority of projects go directly to Benelux companies. This is why everytime someone (even my parents) asks me if I ever considered going back to Portugal, I just want to laugh at them. Instead I just answer "No unless the purges start."
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Mar 23, 2017 00:27
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NihilismNow posted:A cynical person might say the difference in wages is part of why the EU exists in the first place, so business owners can use cheap southern and eastern European labour to break the bargaining position of labour in countries where workers had a better life. A less cynical and more reality-based person might say though that the principle of free movement of workers grew out of the 1957 Treaty of Rome creating the European Economic Community, to which among Southern European states only Italy was a signatory, while the European Union was created in the 1992 Maastricht Treaty, 12 years before any Eastern European country became a member state. That person might also add that free movement allows workers to move to a place where they can earn more money than in their home states, and thus improve their lot as well as send money home to their relatives. Additionally, that person might say that money for regional development is doled out so that living standards can rise everywhere, including in the poorer regions. That person might point out that pretty much every member state of the EU is now better off than when they joined, and that the reasons for the poor performance of working class wages in the west may be more likely to be found in member states' internal politics, globalization and particularly robotization.
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Mar 23, 2017 00:30
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Pluskut Tukker posted:That person might also add that free movement allows workers to move to a place where they can earn more money than in their home states, and thus improve their lot as well as send money home to their relatives. Additionally, that person might say that money for regional development is doled out so that living standards can rise everywhere, including in the poorer regions. That person might point out that pretty much every member state of the EU is now better off than when they joined, and that the reasons for the poor performance of working class wages in the west may be more likely to be found in member states' internal politics, globalization and particularly robotization. Do you disagree that people from low income countries moving to higher income countries puts downward pressure on wages? And the Greek/Portugese camp in this thread sure seems to disagree that they are better off than before they joined.
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Mar 23, 2017 07:43
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orange sky posted:It's not just making less, it's making 6 to 10 times less. It's especially frustrating that a lot of the projects they do is for the European Comission, whose large, large majority of projects go directly to Benelux companies. Maybe don't elect socialists/communists if you want to thrive economically as a country or individual. Not to mention that it's you are letting those differences exist by paying, in opportunity cost, 6 to 10 times your salary, to stay in Portugal. The EU, via the freedom of movement for workers, is allowing you to compete for those higher paying jobs, but you decided that it's not worth it for you. Maybe if the Southern Europeans stopped blaming everyone else for their current situation, they could do something to improve it. NihilismNow posted:Do you disagree that people from low income countries moving to higher income countries puts downward pressure on wages? Obviously it will create a downward pressure on wages, but that is expected to happen. Interestingly, if you look at the famed Elephant-Graph, you can see that this is exactly the development that put pressure on the lower class in the developed world, as the developing countries competed for that labor, making it less valuable, but increasing their own income. GaussianCopula fucked around with this message at 09:31 on Mar 23, 2017 |
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Mar 23, 2017 09:27
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NihilismNow posted:Do you disagree that people from low income countries moving to higher income countries puts downward pressure on wages? Yes, I disagree. There is a lot of literature on the relation between immigration and wage growth but it generally finds no effect, a small effect, or a dispersed effect where some benefit and others lose (example from the UK, another example from the UK, Dutch example, a counterexample (in Dutch), US example). Nothing about the EU is stopping member states from cracking down on labour market abuses (dodgy temping companies, putting foreign workers in a lower pay scale, etc. ). When member states do fail to protect workers at the lower end of the labour market, that is a result of their domestic politics far more than it is about EU policy. NihilismNow posted:And the Greek/Portugese camp in this thread sure seems to disagree that they are better off than before they joined. You can by now make the case that Greece in particular is now no better off than when it joined the euro, for reasons exhaustively debated in this thread. If it is now no better off than when it joined the EU, it should probably ask itself why everyone else did so much better in the EU, what happened with the 100+ billion Euros in structural funds since it joined, and wonder if the problem is not really with its own governance system. Pluskut Tukker fucked around with this message at 10:28 on Mar 23, 2017 |
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Mar 23, 2017 10:09
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NihilismNow posted:Do you disagree that people from low income countries moving to higher income countries puts downward pressure on wages? So you don't want the lazy Greek to come to your country and find work there? Nice FYGM.
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Mar 23, 2017 10:29
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Pluskut Tukker posted:You can by now make the case that Greece in particular is now no better off than when it joined the euro Uhm, that statement would be pretty idiotic. The Greek GDP has grown from $130b in the last year before their entry to the Euro (2000) to $194b in 2015* which is still a growth by about 50%. The issue is more that they have to adjust down from their 2008 high, which was ~350b, an increase of 160% over 8 years, which was fueled by cheap Euro debt. You could say they had a hell of a binge and are not experiencing a hell of a hangover - Let's just hope that the Southern EU learned that you should not spend all of your money on alcohol and women, otherwise the morning after is going to be very lovely. *Disclaimer: these are statistics about Greece - take with a grain of salt
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Mar 23, 2017 10:41
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GaussianCopula posted:Uhm, that statement would be pretty idiotic. The Greek GDP has grown from $130b in the last year before their entry to the Euro (2000) to $194b in 2015* which is still a growth by about 50%. Going by FRED/ the Penn World tables, Greek GDP at constant national prices was $251bn in 2000, and $245bn in 2014. Though it would be a grave mistake to look at GDP figures alone and not look at unemployment and social misery, but I suppose that's to be expected on your part. GaussianCopula posted:The issue is more that they have to adjust down from their 2008 high, which was ~350b, an increase of 160% over 8 years, which was fueled by cheap Euro debt. You could say they had a hell of a binge and are not experiencing a hell of a hangover - Let's just hope that the Southern EU learned that you should not spend all of your money on alcohol and women, otherwise the morning after is going to be very lovely. yeah sure whatever
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Mar 23, 2017 11:27
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Pluskut Tukker posted:yeah sure whatever Being fair I take everything GC claims with a grain of salt, specifically the salt from his tears of frustration that the Greek populace remains extant.
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Mar 23, 2017 11:41
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GaussianCopula posted:Maybe don't elect socialists/communists if you want to thrive economically as a country or individual.
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Mar 23, 2017 11:57
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https://twitter.com/YanniKouts/status/844856936134692865 PS ministers starting to defect to Macron.
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Mar 23, 2017 12:09
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LemonDrizzle posted:https://twitter.com/YanniKouts/status/844856936134692865 So if Macron wins will all these socialists and LR refugees team up under his banner for the parliament elections?
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Mar 23, 2017 12:15
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GaussianCopula posted:Not to mention that it's you are letting those differences exist by paying, in opportunity cost, 6 to 10 times your salary, to stay in Portugal. The EU, via the freedom of movement for workers, is allowing you to compete for those higher paying jobs, but you decided that it's not worth it for you. Do you see life as a spreadsheet? Not everyone wants to leave all of their friends and family behind in search of a high salary in another country.
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Mar 23, 2017 12:20
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pinkacidbootson posted:Do you see life as a spreadsheet? Not everyone wants to leave all of their friends and family behind in search of a high salary in another country. Friendship clearly has a negative financial expectation you fool!
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Mar 23, 2017 14:01
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pinkacidbootson posted:Do you see life as a spreadsheet? Not everyone wants to leave all of their friends and family behind in search of a high salary in another country. then clearly that is your own tradeoff to make 
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Mar 23, 2017 14:46
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