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https://svenska.yle.fi/artikel/2021/01/31/ingen-overlever-kriser-som-stefan-lofven-stodet-for-statsministern-ar-fortfarandequote:Sveriges höga dödstal under coronapandemin har ännu inte drabbat den sittande regeringen hårt i opinionssiffror. Både socialdemokraternas och Stefan Löfvens sits är i dag starkare än den var före pandemin för ett år sedan, när de var riktigt i botten. Can't say I've followed Löfven closely but the vauge impression I've gotten of him is, very incompetent.
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Feb 1, 2021 08:54
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His Divine Shadow posted:https://svenska.yle.fi/artikel/2021/01/31/ingen-overlever-kriser-som-stefan-lofven-stodet-for-statsministern-ar-fortfarande This is more due to the ruling style and PR approach of the current government. The outward face of this governmens incompetence is the various ministers and heads of governmental agencies, they get the air time and the resulting responsibility. He is more of a passive behind the scenes incompetent than an "in your face" incompetent like Trump.
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Feb 1, 2021 09:16
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His Divine Shadow posted:https://svenska.yle.fi/artikel/2021/01/31/ingen-overlever-kriser-som-stefan-lofven-stodet-for-statsministern-ar-fortfarande How so, and by what metric? Incompetent as in not reaching the party political goals, or incompetent at power politics? On his negative account is that S has kept losing percentage of seats in parliament since he became leader, but so has most party leaders as SD has taken seats from most parties. He has also not been able to figure out a way to dampen the populist right wing. But that can be said about the right wing party leaders as well, not to mention political leaders across the world. On his positive account he managed to stay prime minister while losing seats in the last election. He managed to block every other party's attempt to form a competing government, which ended up wrecking the right wing's parties very successful alliance in the progress. This has left two of the right wing parties fighting for their survival, and Löfven in a relatively safe position which is kind of insane given how little power he should be able to wield with his minority government. He's been stopping attacks from both the right and the left to topple said weak minority government, and pretty easily, despite threats of revolt pretty much at least every six months. I mean, compared to a Göran Persson or Fredrik Reinfeldt in their primes he's not a power player, but they operated under completely different parliament arithmetics so it's not a reasonable comparison. The mere fact that he's still in charge of not just his party but the government is proof enough that he's not a bumbling fool. But he knows that his strength is not his public persona, and he has been avoiding the limelight pretty consistently. This has had the effect of him also being able to pass the blame when things blow up in his face.
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Feb 1, 2021 09:50
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i mean you're basically describing Erna Solberg there
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Feb 1, 2021 09:55
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Maybe by the metric of 80% of Scandinavia's covid deaths?
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Feb 1, 2021 10:06
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Zudgemud posted:This is more due to the ruling style and PR approach of the current government. The outward face of this governmens incompetence is the various ministers and heads of governmental agencies, they get the air time and the resulting responsibility. He is more of a passive behind the scenes incompetent than an "in your face" incompetent like Trump. He’s only in your face if you’re in Gallerian before Christmas... ...I felt sympathy initially for Steffie because yes this is an unpredictable, unprecedented situation that no one could fathom. But Christ, I truly think this dude is in way, way over his head and that incompetence, which may not even be rooted in malice, is a vacuum for some even more heinous poo poo to happen. He is someone’s bumbling uncle to me, not a loving PM.
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Feb 1, 2021 10:35
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i don't think that lots of old people dying is an especially disastrous outcome under present governing paradigms, and i suspect that this is actually reflected with voter response
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Feb 1, 2021 10:37
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lilljonas posted:How so, and by what metric? Incompetent as in not reaching the party political goals, or incompetent at power politics? Like I said this is just from someone who doesn't follow swedish politics closely. Most of my impressions of Löfven come from how I see him mentioned by others, in real life, facebook, on forums, usually as the butt of some joke. So mostly they've been negative impressions. Don't think I can recall a single positive thing about löfven by anone until now. Which is probably why I reacted at all to the article. I guess this metric is very bad and unscientific, but I also guess that's how most people reason, except uncritically. His Divine Shadow fucked around with this message at 11:31 on Feb 1, 2021 |
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Feb 1, 2021 11:29
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löfven is really emblematic of how far social democracy has fallen as an ideology imo no ideas, no direction, just weird focus on some nebulous idea of an ordered society according to presently hegemonic criteria of managerial efficiency
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Feb 1, 2021 11:37
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His Divine Shadow posted:Like I said this is just from someone who doesn't follow swedish politics closely. Most of my impressions of Löfven come from how I see him mentioned by others, in real life, facebook, on forums, usually as the butt of some joke. So mostly they've been negative impressions. Don't think I can recall a single positive thing about löfven by anone until now. Which is probably why I reacted at all to the article. I guess this metric is very bad and unscientific, but I also guess that's how most people reason, except uncritically. I think reaching out to the public and charisma in general are huge weaknesses of him, yes. But I think it's simplistic to judge politicians on that alone, or even to look at just one area of politics (like the posts above about covid). I'm not his greatest fan at all, but I'm also not a big fan of the "Löfven is just a dumb incompetent welder rising far above his station" propaganda heavily promoted by the right. At least we're lucky he's sparring against Ulf Kristersson, who is possibly even less charismatic and less effective as a political leader, instead of more shrewd operators like Carl Bildt or Fredrik Reinfeldt.
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Feb 1, 2021 11:38
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Stefan Löfven has been ace at subduing his parties infighting and keeping his coalition together by playing all sides simultaneously. If you wanted other things however you've been poo poo out of luck.
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Feb 1, 2021 11:42
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I did not know he was a welder. I like that.
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Feb 1, 2021 11:42
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His Divine Shadow posted:I did not know he was a welder. I like that. He was a welder and advanced up the ranks through the union, ending up as the chairman of IF Metall before elected leader of S, rather than through the party system. This can probably explain some of the reasons why he doesn't operate like many other party leaders (both good and bad), and also it grinds the gears of a ton of people doing the party hustle on both sides of the political spectrum. Like, the man never had to appeal to the public to be elected to a position a single time until after he ascended to the prime minister post. That's pretty rare. lilljonas fucked around with this message at 11:55 on Feb 1, 2021 |
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Feb 1, 2021 11:52
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I'm sorry but IF Metall (along with LO) was for the longest time part of the Social Democratic party hustle.
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Feb 1, 2021 11:56
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a lot of the contempt that löfven is getting is pretty clear classism, he's a pretty traditional 'pamp' in that his politics are extremely pragmatic and totally in the social-democratic mainstream the problem isn't really him, it's that the ideology has lost all trace of vigour in the latter days of neoliberalism
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Feb 1, 2021 11:57
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MiddleOne posted:I'm sorry but IF Metall (along with LO) was for the longest time part of the Social Democratic party hustle. True but he didn't have to "pay his dues" when switching from Metall to the prime minister, not through a parliament seat or through a few years in a ministerial role. From what little I've seen as a union representantive myself, I'd also say that Swedish unions tend to be far more engaged in more technical issues than ideological ones. One of the largest faultlines between the two unions represented at my work are technicalities regarding the progress for how yearly wage increases are negotiated. I can't imagine how anyone who not just survive, but thrive and advance to leadership in such an organization, would not be forged into the ultimate beaurocrat rather than a charismatic idealog. lilljonas fucked around with this message at 12:04 on Feb 1, 2021 |
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Feb 1, 2021 11:59
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Any swede interested in the social democrats should read Partiledaren som klev in i kylan by Daniel Suhonen. A good and interesting read on the rise and swift, internally orchestrated fall of Håkan Juholt. Edit: plus a lot of juicy S gossip and drama from the past decades Beeswax fucked around with this message at 12:46 on Feb 1, 2021 |
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Feb 1, 2021 12:43
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Beeswax posted:Any swede interested in the social democrats should read Partiledaren som klev in i kylan by Daniel Suhonen. A good and interesting read on the rise and swift, internally orchestrated fall of Håkan Juholt. Has anyone who's not personally out for glory written about the mirror case of AKB's insanely speedy fall from grace?
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Feb 1, 2021 12:53
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The relatively high approval of S despite the Corona deathtoll is also due to voters correctly assuming that all partiets in parliament would likely have acted the same as S if they had the PM position. MiddleOne posted:Stefan Löfven has been ace at subduing his parties infighting and keeping his coalition together by playing all sides simultaneously. Also this ^^^, the government with Löfven is not incompetent at actually perpetuating the status quo, it is quite good att that. The incompetence is more what MiddleOne is saying in that his leadership style is that of a managing bureaucrat, which has problem handling/implementing new things and which lacks both a vision and the strenght of character or charisma to pull it through.
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Feb 1, 2021 13:48
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Zudgemud posted:The incompetence is more what MiddleOne is saying in that his leadership style is that of a managing bureaucrat, which has problem handling/implementing new things and which lacks both a vision and the strenght of character or charisma to pull it through. That’s a better description of my gripes. Like anything outside of the day to day is a confounding disaster it seems and we are very much in a situation that’s beyond the day to day. This is a time for decisive action and they aren’t up to snuff. Keeping the lights on? Sure, they’ve got that. But you shouldn’t be lauded for maintaining the bare minimum.
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Feb 1, 2021 14:35
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V. Illych L. posted:löfven is really emblematic of how far social democracy has fallen as an ideology imo Interesting how we can reach the same conclusion from two wildly separate starting positions.
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Feb 1, 2021 19:56
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teen witch posted:That’s a better description of my gripes. In this day and age, not loving a good thing up completely is actually not guaranteed. Just look at the UK deciding to turn off the light of the EU or the neoliberal reforms in Denmark. Not saying we shouldn't hope for better than maintenance, but the floor is far far lower.
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Feb 1, 2021 21:25
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I feel safer already. Sure would be cool if pandemic response efforts hadn't been cut for cost, but it'll be almost as cool if they can find a company that doesn't consider data protection irrelevant and then lies about it. https://jyllands-posten.dk/indland/ECE12728821/private-virksomheder-skal-saette-turbo-paa-vaccination-af-danskerne/
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Feb 2, 2021 06:17
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SplitSoul posted:I feel safer already. Sure would be cool if pandemic response efforts hadn't been cut for cost, but it'll be almost as cool if they can find a company that doesn't consider data protection irrelevant and then lies about it. My GF is part of the teams that go out to sites like a plejehjem and give vaccines. She says the limit right now is they could inject more people but they would need more doses than DK is getting. Or you go out to a site, they asked for 90 doses but only need 80, or it turns out they need 110. You'll see instances where they have to scramble to find people to get the extra doses.
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Feb 2, 2021 06:30
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And surprise, surprise, Støjberg quits Venstre. This calls for cake.
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Feb 4, 2021 11:38
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She's going to join Nye Borgerlige and instantly make them the second most popular party, calling it now.
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Feb 4, 2021 16:26
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SplitSoul posted:She's going to join Nye Borgerlige and instantly make them the second most popular party, calling it now. Yeah, I was gonna post "DF, NB or new party" as a response, but forgot. NB seems pretty likely, but I'm hoping for further appropriation of leftist culture by creating even more racist parties to split the vote.
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Feb 4, 2021 16:39
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It's interesting to note that the norwegian right-populist party has now seen its libertarian wing solidify its grip on power and expel some of the national-conservative types, leaving those guys with nowhere to really go. might see the reactionary christian party take over part of the christian democrats' niche? i can't see them going past 4% unless something really drastic happens
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Feb 4, 2021 17:34
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BonHair posted:Yeah, I was gonna post "DF, NB or new party" as a response, but forgot. NB seems pretty likely, but I'm hoping for further appropriation of leftist culture by creating even more racist parties to split the vote. I'm sure people were hoping for the same thing when DF originally entered the scene, but what happened was that every single other party eventually adopted their racism to some degree. Even EL voted for immigration restrictions that went into effect this year.
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Feb 4, 2021 17:43
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SplitSoul posted:I'm sure people were hoping for the same thing when DF originally entered the scene, but what happened was that every single other party eventually adopted their racism to some degree. Even EL voted for immigration restrictions that went into effect this year. Yeah, racism has become mainstream thanks to DF, but we did get some wasted votes on the right from Stram Kurs, and since the last election we've had a few extra right wing parties pop up. The more of them there are, the more potential wasted votes. Their politics seem like they are mostly trying to find the right balance between fig leaves, racism and neoliberalism, so they essentially represent nothing new, unlike DF of old who pioneered racism as a policy.
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Feb 4, 2021 17:57
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V. Illych L. posted:It's interesting to note that the norwegian right-populist party has now seen its libertarian wing solidify its grip on power and expel some of the national-conservative types, leaving those guys with nowhere to really go. might see the reactionary christian party take over part of the christian democrats' niche? i can't see them going past 4% unless something really drastic happens I haven't been following FrP that closely, but really? What about Listhaug? She's firmly national-conservative and not libertarian as far as I understand it, and though she's been controversial I always had the impression she was popular and a bit of a rising star. And I can't really place Siv Jensen in any of the camps firmly, though she always struck me as having lost most of her personality and presence from her time in government. They probably put something in the water in the finance department. Honestly though, Sp is probably getting much of the nationalist populist vote. By all accounts as far as I can discern they are nationalists, they just aren't strictly aligned with the right wing (and they definitely aren't really leftists either). Randarkman fucked around with this message at 18:27 on Feb 4, 2021 |
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Feb 4, 2021 18:25
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listhaug, amundsen and tybring-gjedde are all still in place, but the purges in oslo and bergen pretty clearly represent the jensen business-oriented wing tightening their grip of the party. i would not be surprised to see tybring-gjedde in particular jump ship the moment he felt he could stay in office, but amundsen is ride-or-die and listhaug is the doggiest of sheepdogs
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Feb 4, 2021 19:36
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Someone do an effortpost on the split in the Danish Fremskridtspartiet that lead to DF. I'm sure there are interesting parallels to current day Norway, given that Fremskridtspartiet was originally the party of not paying taxes.
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Feb 4, 2021 19:56
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https://forsvaretsforum.no/koronavirus-sverige-utenriks/svenske-panserregimenter-vokter-grensen/180846 loving lol, the swedes are sending mechanized infantry regiments to the Norwegian border. Without the mechanized part of it, so only infantry. But still, wow, calm down søta bror. Can't you use regular national guardsmen like normal people?
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Feb 4, 2021 21:23
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Is this just posturing? Like are they going for a narrative of "actually it's Norway that's the country where 10,000 people have died and which has extremely limp-wristed coronavirus policy?". Though I guess stopping the "Mutanten", as dagbladet insists on calling, from getting from Oslo and Østfold and into Sweden is decent grounds. Has the new British strain not showed up in Sweden yet?
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Feb 4, 2021 21:32
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Randarkman posted:Is this just posturing? Like are they going for a narrative of "actually it's Norway that's the country where 10,000 people have died and which has extremely limp-wristed coronavirus policy?". Though I guess stopping the "Mutanten", as dagbladet insists on calling, from getting from Oslo and Østfold and into Sweden is decent grounds. Has the new British strain not showed up in Sweden yet? I think it’s here but aftonbladet is telling me two wildly different things 
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Feb 4, 2021 21:54
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Randarkman posted:Is this just posturing? Like are they going for a narrative of "actually it's Norway that's the country where 10,000 people have died and which has extremely limp-wristed coronavirus policy?". Though I guess stopping the "Mutanten", as dagbladet insists on calling, from getting from Oslo and Østfold and into Sweden is decent grounds. Has the new British strain not showed up in Sweden yet? We have a good 150-200 confirmed cases of British plague in Sweden and it is estimated to become the dominant strain in cirkulation in the future, unless more fun strains like the brazilian and South African ones make larger inroads.
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Feb 4, 2021 21:56
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Randarkman posted:Is this just posturing? Like are they going for a narrative of "actually it's Norway that's the country where 10,000 people have died and which has extremely limp-wristed coronavirus policy?". Though I guess stopping the "Mutanten", as dagbladet insists on calling, from getting from Oslo and Østfold and into Sweden is decent grounds. Has the new British strain not showed up in Sweden yet? Zudgemud posted:We have a good 150-200 confirmed cases of British plague in Sweden and it is estimated to become the dominant strain in cirkulation in the future, unless more fun strains like the brazilian and South African ones make larger inroads.
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Feb 4, 2021 22:06
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Might not be the first time the US dodged being the official origin of a virus. The Spanish flu is a misnomer - it’s the Kansas Flu. Otherwise it’s just sparkling pandemic
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Feb 4, 2021 22:12
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It's kinda gross calling it the British variant, as if it was somehow caused by the (admittedly terrible) British government. And it's even worse with the South African one, which lends itself to racism easily. Remember how we don't call it the Chinese virus?
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Feb 4, 2021 22:16
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