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Electric Wrigglies posted:ahh, that's how we are motivating displacing people without free and informed prior consent, just label 'em a rich failson then job done? No, the actual reason is that there are 4 issues that are split pretty hard among political lines. And people don't want to be seen with people on the other side. If you got a fossil plant built in a nature/native reserve, you want people who attract fossil plants and people who like nature reserves. And they get along and show up in large numbers and have fun. If you got a wind plant built on a golf course/parking lot/industrial farm you attract the peole who hate wind plants and people who like golf courses. And they get along and show up in large numbers and have fun. If they are mixed differently you get small protests: If you got a fossil plant built on a golf course, you want people who hate fossil plants or like golf courses. And those hate each other and only show up if they really care about that one issue massively. If you got a wind plant built on a nature reserve, you want people who hate wind plants or like nature reserves. And those hate each other and only show up if they really care about that one issue massively. And the people who stayed at home shitpost complaining about the people who showed up.
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Jun 1, 2023 13:10
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cant cook creole bream posted:Germany is still a net exporter though. You're really, really close but apparently still so far.
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Jun 1, 2023 15:24
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What are nuke chuds again? Anyways, one thing that Victoria 3has taught me is that you can buy stuff from people at a low price to drive up the cost and then sell it back to them for profit, maybe that's what is happening here?
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Jun 1, 2023 20:40
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I don't know but my takeaway is as need more nuclear power generation
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Jun 1, 2023 22:01
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Raenir Salazar posted:What are nuke chuds again? A goon here kept using it to refer to anyone pro-nuclear to try and paint anyone who argued in favor of nuclear power as right wing, because that's about all he had left in way of arguments. It was pretty pathetic.
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Jun 2, 2023 04:25
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VictualSquid posted:No, the actual reason is that there are 4 issues that are split pretty hard among political lines. And people don't want to be seen with people on the other side. yeah, agreed. You did forget about the people that stayed at home (for very good reasons that I can't go into) shitposting about the people that didn't show up though. On the other hand, the one that should bring them together is the increasing re-purposing of old disused mines as a renewable energy hub. Create a dam in the waste dump to allow for pumped hydro storage (the pit is the bottom reservoir, the waste dump dam the top reservoir) wind farms towers on other waste dumps and cover the old tails dam with solar panels. Double points if the original grid connection (even if it needs to be upgraded, you still have the corridor), concrete workshop bases and roadworks all still exist. The magic is old mines are all previously disturbed ground and generally away from NIMBY concerns. Kidston https://genexpower.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/kidston_renewable_energy_hub_-_information_sheet_-_october_20172.pdf is the best example I know but I understand the UK is developing some now as well.
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Jun 2, 2023 09:32
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Down for expanding options for pumped hydro storage, but I know old open pit mines have a bad habit of filling with water that leeches toxic materials from the exposed deeper rock. Pumped hydro with hazardous wastewater sounds tricky.
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Jun 4, 2023 18:18
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Electric Wrigglies posted:
Pouring a lot of water into old mines sounds like a terrible idea.
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Jun 4, 2023 22:32
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Yeah old mines are toxic death traps, it’s like the worst thing you could ever do. Look up the Berkeley Pit. Flocks of birds have flown in there and died from chemical burns. Not great! Pumped hydro is dumb, especially given water scarcity.
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Jun 4, 2023 22:57
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Pumped hydro rules it's just difficult to find a site where it makes any sense
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Jun 4, 2023 23:12
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cat botherer posted:Pumped hydro is dumb, especially given water scarcity.
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Jun 4, 2023 23:16
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cant cook creole bream posted:You don't need to waste water as long as it's a boilable liquid. Just fill the mine with mercury!
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Jun 4, 2023 23:18
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cant cook creole bream posted:You don't need to waste water as long as it's a boilable liquid. Just fill the mine with mercury! It doesn't need to be boilable or even a liquid. Any fluid can theoretically work for pumped energy storage.
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Jun 4, 2023 23:20
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Pumped magma.
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Jun 4, 2023 23:20
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cant cook creole bream posted:You don't need to waste water as long as it's a boilable liquid. Just fill the mine with mercury! How do you think pumped hydro works 
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Jun 4, 2023 23:27
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Blind Duke posted:Down for expanding options for pumped hydro storage, but I know old open pit mines have a bad habit of filling with water that leeches toxic materials from the exposed deeper rock. Pumped hydro with hazardous wastewater sounds tricky. Well, Gravitricity is trying to use old mines for gravity storage by hauling weights up and down. In other gravity storage related news Energy Vault actually has an above ground project under construction in Rudong, China. It's massive.. I honestly thought Energy Vault was a grift and now we get to find out.
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Jun 4, 2023 23:29
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Owling Howl posted:Well, Gravitricity is trying to use old mines for gravity storage by hauling weights up and down. I still think they are grifts as well as unfeasible on the face of it. Just using peoples desperation for a workable energy storage solution as a means to get money fast.
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Jun 5, 2023 06:07
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Lifting concrete blocks for energy storage isn’t economically feasible, but if someone needs to subsidize construction during an economic slowdown it can be a symbiotic grift.
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Jun 5, 2023 06:22
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KillHour posted:It doesn't need to be boilable or even a liquid. Any fluid can theoretically work for pumped energy storage. Xakura posted:How do you think pumped hydro works Yeah, I had a genuine brainfart when I wrote that. Anyway there's certainly nothing wrong with filling a mine with mercury.
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Jun 5, 2023 06:39
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Phanatic posted:Pouring a lot of water into old mines sounds like a terrible idea. Two things; ~You can and do develop hydrogeochemical models of what is going to happen. It's pretty routine work. The vast majority of mines don't have chemical leaching problems. The generally common nasty one is acid forming waste (primarily because it has been sized reduced by blasting and digging and raised to above ground) but that is not so applicable to most pits themselves and the waste should be encapsulated (MUCH more likely to happen if you do something like build an upper water storage reservoir on top of it). ~Pits fill with water in any event, hence why some old mines have ongoing water treatment plants operating long after the mine has gone (eg, the old Mt Morgan copper mine south of Rockhamptom). A little bit beside the point but pumped hydro is VASTLY less environmentally damaging than rare earth mining and processing that are used in spiffy magnets and cat botherer posted:Yeah old mines are toxic death traps, it’s like the worst thing you could ever do. Look up the Berkeley Pit. Flocks of birds have flown in there and died from chemical burns. Not great! Pumped hydro is dumb, especially given water scarcity. you are telling me that if some birds get burnt (say by flying in concentrated sunlight) we should assume nothing can be done and the tech itself is hopeless?
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Jun 5, 2023 09:50
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Electric Wrigglies posted:Two things;
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Jun 5, 2023 15:12
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cat botherer posted:The Berkeley Pit is one of the worst superfund sites in the country. ok, and that is relevant to nearly all the rest of the disused pits how?
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Jun 5, 2023 15:36
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cant cook creole bream posted:Yeah, I had a genuine brainfart when I wrote that. Except that we don't have literal lakes of mercury lying around to do it with.
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Jun 5, 2023 16:01
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Jun 5, 2023 16:07
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Electric Wrigglies posted:ok, and that is relevant to nearly all the rest of the disused pits how? It became one of the worst superfund sites in the country because the pumps were turned off and it filled with water.
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Jun 5, 2023 16:08
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Blorange posted:Lifting concrete blocks for energy storage isn’t economically feasible, but if someone needs to subsidize construction during an economic slowdown it can be a symbiotic grift. Every year the demolition of buildings all around the world releases unimaginable amounts of energy into earth crust when kinetically highly energetic rubble fragments and particulates impact at the terrestrial-atmospheric intersection line. With the help of AI driven research methods we developed a novel technology that can recuperate this energy and make it available to the power grid, reducing carbon emission and combating climate change.
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Jun 5, 2023 16:49
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GABA ghoul posted:Every year the demolition of buildings all around the world releases unimaginable amounts of energy into earth crust when kinetically highly energetic rubble fragments and particulates impact at the terrestrial-atmospheric intersection line. With the help of AI driven research methods we developed a novel technology that can recuperate this energy and make it available to the power grid, reducing carbon emission and combating climate change. What's your SPAC? Moon for sure!
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Jun 5, 2023 16:54
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Phanatic posted:It became one of the worst superfund sites in the country because the pumps were turned off and it filled with water. Yes, on a historical copper mine with acid forming waste rock and soluble heavy metals. Which is not relevant to the vast majority of disused mines (and is checked for as part of mine ESIAs even in Africa let alone a 2020's civil project such as a renewable energy hub in the style of Kidston would be in Aus/UK/EU). It's like saying that because concentrated solar has burnt birds when they fly in between the reflection mirrors and the central tower, that all solar is a bad idea because bird deaths.
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Jun 5, 2023 17:06
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KillHour posted:Except that we don't have literal lakes of mercury lying around to do it with. Not with that sort of attitude we don’t!
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Jun 5, 2023 17:14
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Jows posted:What's your SPAC? Moon for sure! Trampoline Technologies Inc., we are still it the angel investor phase so not public yet
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Jun 5, 2023 17:16
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Electric Wrigglies posted:Yes, on a historical copper mine with acid forming waste rock and soluble heavy metals. Which is not relevant to the vast majority of disused mines (and is checked for as part of mine ESIAs even in Africa let alone a 2020's civil project such as a renewable energy hub in the style of Kidston would be in Aus/UK/EU). Are there really mines that don't have pyrites?
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Jun 5, 2023 17:21
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Phanatic posted:Are there really mines that don't have pyrites? yeah, any mining of oxides (nickel/copper laterites, iron ore and bauxite for example) will be in the weathered zone free of sulphides pretty much by definition and the majority of fresh rock mines are mostly granites, basalts and other non-acid forming rocks. And even where there are some pyrites (or other sulphides like pyrrhotite), they will often be in low enough amount to be insignificant and neutralized by volume (dilution is the solution to pollution). Do you think every highway cutting, wind tower foundation dig out and canal dredging brings great big volumes of acid (or heavy metals) like Berkeley Pit (some do, which is why there is a whole body of science to hydrogeological chemistry)?
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Jun 5, 2023 17:54
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_mine_drainage is a vocab word i remember from hs because my class and the teacher really liked the his joke of it being a good band name.
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Jun 5, 2023 18:52
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PhazonLink posted:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_mine_drainage when i worked in a water quality research lab i often studied acid mine drainage samples since i could just go get tons of them myself
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Jun 5, 2023 19:06
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KillHour posted:Except that we don't have literal lakes of mercury lying around to do it with. Once again the Chinese have pulled ahead in the renewables race: https://www.chemistryworld.com/features/flowing-rivers-of-mercury/8122.article
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Jun 6, 2023 02:35
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I need some talking points to counter some anti-nuclear arguments. I've thought of some rejoinders in italics, but would appreciate other citable facts. Most of these come from here: https://archive.beyondnuclear.org/storage/fact-sheets/Flyer_ClimateChange_UK.pdf https://archive.beyondnuclear.org/fact-sheets/ - I don't know this "Beyond Nuclear" group, has anyone heard of them? Do they get funding from the fossil fuel industry? Namely these:
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Jun 14, 2023 18:19
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DrSunshine posted:ut this seems on the face not correct.[/i] This is nonsense. Nuclear plants don't "consume" water. The largest nuclear plant in the country uses reclaimed sewer water for its coolant. You could use the waste heat from nuclear plants for desalination if you wanted to.
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Jun 14, 2023 18:24
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DrSunshine posted:
Uranium mining isn't special, any mining has the same or similar problems. Uranium replacing coal is a huge environmental positive. As you said wind and solar also require mined resources, as does basically all modern life. Ultimately we need whatever we can get to eliminate CO2 emissions and that will depend on the site.
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Jun 14, 2023 18:31
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Phanatic posted:This is nonsense. Nuclear plants don't "consume" water. The largest nuclear plant in the country uses reclaimed sewer water for its coolant. You could use the waste heat from nuclear plants for desalination if you wanted to. From the PDF, the argument goes: quote:In a world under global warming conditions, water is fast becoming a precious commodity. It makes no sense to continue with large thermoloectric plants that consume large quantities of water. Once-through cooling plants draw in as much as a million gallons of water a minute, which is later discharged as heat, usually into the same body of water, heating it up. (DS: ???... ??!) Plants that use cooling towers (closed-loop heating), draw in water and then evaporate it as steam, thereby consuming and depleting water supplies. This sounds like a specious argument to me, honestly, but I wouldn't know where to begin. EDIT: This seems to rely on an article from a Prof. Derek Abbott, titled Nuclear Power: Game Over, but looking him up he's an electrical engineer and doesn't seem to have anything to do with nuclear power or sustainability. DrSunshine fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Jun 14, 2023 |
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Jun 14, 2023 18:33
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DrSunshine posted:I need some talking points to counter some anti-nuclear arguments. I've thought of some rejoinders in italics, but would appreciate other citable facts. Most of these come from here: https://archive.beyondnuclear.org/storage/fact-sheets/Flyer_ClimateChange_UK.pdf Most of those are not wrong, but technically correct. In that they lead to nuclear power being about equivalent to renewable energy sources on environmental measures instead of strictly better.
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Jun 14, 2023 18:34
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