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I'm a pretty big believer that SU has *no filler*, which is a somewhat (but not extremely) radical view. It's fundamentally a show about the characters, and every episode, whether full of backstory or big events, or just a bit of slice-of-life around Beach City, contributes something to the understanding of the characters, how they relate to each other, and how they're growing and changing. The creators are on record as not wanting to create a show that's one particular genre, but explore different things and different storytelling, and change over time. You can definitely see some of that in the evolution from monster-of-the-week adventures in early S1, to dealing with larger issues and threats, and Steven's role evolving from this (sometimes annoying) kid tagging along with the Gems to a useful part of the team, and now starting to show some real leadership at times. I like that as Steven grows up and becomes a more useful member of the team, he continues to do it on his terms -- Steven is not Rose, nor is he looking to be Garnet, Amethyst, or Pearl, exactly -- he just wants to be the best Steven he can be. TwoPair posted:I would make the bold statement that I have not seen a bad episode of Steven Universe yet. I think there are a few weaker episodes, but yeah, I dunno if I'd call any of 'em bad. I thought when I re-watched the show prior to the first Steven Bomb that I might skip some episodes, but that didn't happen. Quinton fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Jul 28, 2015 |
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Jul 28, 2015 20:51
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Quinton posted:I'm a pretty big believer that SU has *no filler* Ian JQ's said that, verbatim.
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Jul 28, 2015 20:56
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rockopete posted:Expectation management. If you go into a show having been told you'll be blown away, you're going to be looking for that. Steven Universe is particularly weird with this because the 'slow' bits are actually really well done and important for tone setting and world building. Encouraging people to watch this show without over-hyping certain parts, while still making sense, is not easy. At least in my experience. Yeah.  There are a ton of hype as gently caress fan videos online that I want to link to people to sell them on the show, but I know that I can't, because making someone expect all high-drama/action, all the time, is just setting them up for disappointment.
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Jul 28, 2015 20:58
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TwoPair posted:I would make the bold statement that I have not seen a bad episode of Steven Universe yet. Quinton posted:I'm a pretty big believer that SU has *no filler*, which is a somewhat (but not extremely) radical view. [ X ] 5 - Strongly Agree The worst episodes we've had, IMO, are Onion Trade, Rising Tides/Crashing Skies, and Historical Friction, and the last one is only juuuust short of amazing because of pacing issues. Even these episodes, the worst of the series, are still very watchable. Also I think I didn't enjoy House Guest very much, but I haven't watched it in forever so I can't say for sure.
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Jul 28, 2015 21:01
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^^ House Guest is maybe the only episode where we don't see Greg being basically the Best Dad Evar. Probably important to show that Greg's human and screws up sometimes too, and important for Steven in that "learning your parents aren't perfect" way, but it's a bit of a downer. I think the fact that the show is not constant high-drama, super-insane-action, allows the big epic stuff to hit all that much harder. That and I'm all for slice-of-life stories about Steven who's half-magic-on-his-mom's-side and hangs out with his surrogate moms/aunts/sisters as they protect the world. Also, I guess I'm kinda slow, because I just noticed that the partially eaten donut art on the Big Donut shirts Lars and Sadie wear at work is designed so the bitten-off part is a B and the remaining bit is a D. Quinton fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Jul 28, 2015 |
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Jul 28, 2015 21:03
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For some reason, Love Letters is the one episode that really didn't land for me. I didn't enjoy Jamie in that episode at or the scenario but Garnet's lines and her speech at the end where great so even that's a pretty okay episode. SU has yet to completely whiff in my opinion, which is pretty great for a show almost to the halfway mark of it's second season.
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Jul 28, 2015 21:12
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Quinton posted:^^ House Guest is maybe the only episode where we don't see Greg being basically the Best Dad Evar. Probably important to show that Greg's human and screws up sometimes too, and important for Steven in that "learning your parents aren't perfect" way, but it's a bit of a downer. Am I the only one that things a big part of the show is going to end up being steven having to accept rose as not being the perfect almost literal godess that she is shown to him by everyone? Like she has been built up as SO perfect in every way, I feel like there is going to be a big deal where we (and steven) have to learn she was human* too, and I think that will have to mean in a more personal set of flaws than just the big abstract high fantasy nonsense about sci-fi stuff.
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Jul 28, 2015 21:15
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Am I the only one that things a big part of the show is going to end up being steven having to accept rose as not being the perfect almost literal godess that she is shown to him by everyone? It seems like, to a certain extent, Pearl is the only one who really deifies Rose Quartz. Garnet definitely respects her and held her in extremely high regard, and Amethyst probably at least respected her as the leader, but Pearl is the only really gung-ho "Rose was perfect in every way" character. I wouldn't be surprised if we eventually do learn something hosed up about Roses's past, and Garnet is just like "We were saving it for your birthday."
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Jul 28, 2015 21:19
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I'm not sure Steven idolizes Rose the way, say, Pearl does. Much of his mom-related pain seems to come from never having known her, only hearing about her second-hand, and from the Gems having incredibly high expectations of him (while also being over-protective at times).
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Jul 28, 2015 21:22
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Moltrey posted:For some reason, Love Letters is the one episode that really didn't land for me. I didn't enjoy Jamie in that episode at or the scenario but Garnet's lines and her speech at the end where great so even that's a pretty okay episode. SU has yet to completely whiff in my opinion, which is pretty great for a show almost to the halfway mark of it's second season. Any episode where Estelle gets more lines is a good episode. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wghlvf_JWPM (prime favourite: "Your middle name is cutie-pie"  )
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Jul 28, 2015 21:35
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Am I the only one that things a big part of the show is going to end up being steven having to accept rose as not being the perfect almost literal godess that she is shown to him by everyone? I'm not sure. If this were another show then yeah, the buildup would absolutely scream "secretly actually bad", but given that Steven's primary reaction to her is less "idolization" and more "I don't know what to think of you", I don't think it's going to be as much of a BIG REVEAL as it could be. There's certainly going to be some uncomfortable truths at some point, but honestly I think it's going to be the kind of thing where it'll be hitting the Gems (and if it goes in the direction I think it'll go, Garnet/Ruby especially) harder than it hits Steven. Apart from Pearl's unheard stories about the war, pretty much the main info Steven's gotten about his mom has come from Greg, and while he surely loved her, he certainly didn't idolize(/deify?) her in the same way the Gems do. And Steven's nothing if not able to accept people for who they are, flaws and all, whereas the gems are a bit more black-and-white when it comes to their outlook on other people.
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Jul 28, 2015 21:37
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Quinton posted:I'm not sure Steven idolizes Rose the way, say, Pearl does. I think that Steven might come to resent Pearl if she keeps accidentally calling him Rose. Maybe he'll just come to resent Rose because he can't separate himself from her in Pearl's mind. That could be a fun couple of episodes.
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Jul 28, 2015 21:40
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TwoPair posted:Yeah, I liked the early eps too. I guess you can chalk it up to what rockopete said earlier about expectation. Since I've been watching since episode 1 ( I started really liking the show once it became clear that "How does Steven screw up this week?" wasn't going to be a regular occurrence. The only episode I find near-unwatchable is Garnet's Universe - not that it's bad, but because I feel it's really like a story that an actual anime-watching 10-12 year old would tell - and therefore it's really, really boring. So it's stylistically bad.
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Jul 28, 2015 21:53
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) I've never been let down by an episode, but I suppose I can see where someone could start watching later on then not enjoy going back to when the characters weren't as developed.
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Quinton posted:I'm not sure Steven idolizes Rose the way, say, Pearl does. Yeah, they made that pretty explicit in Indirect Kiss.
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Jul 28, 2015 21:53
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Caidin posted:I actually really liked early Steven, I didn't realize that was a rare sentiment. Some people are just real sensitive to child characters in fiction and get annoyed easily by them, is my experience. I've never understood it myself, but people are how they are.
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Jul 28, 2015 21:57
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XboxPants posted:Yeah. Right? For me it ends up like "you need to watch this cartoon, just watch it, it's good, I can't really explain it, character development, feminist without being preachy, LGBT-positive but I can't really tell you how, uh, just watch it. please." Quinton posted:I'm not sure Steven idolizes Rose the way, say, Pearl does. "I wish I had known you so I could be sad that you're gone like everyone else is and then I could cry." 
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Jul 28, 2015 22:06
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I don't think we'll find out Rose was pure evil or something, but I think we'll see evidence of Rose being part of some really bad poo poo. It's very possible Rose was a part of destroying other planets and Earth was when she first realized "Oh poo poo, this is actually really really terrible" after meeting humans. I also think Rose might have been the one to put Lapis in the mirror.
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Jul 28, 2015 22:08
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Ursine Asylum posted:I don't understand people who don't, but given how much cringe-comedy is out there I'm fully aware I'm in the minority. If it were a switch I could flip in my brain, I would, but as it is... I've experienced second hand embarrassment before so I know what it feels like. What I don't understand is how you can possibly get that from SU. There's nothing like a character doing something that will have embarrassing or humiliating consequences for them, or doing something painfully stupid or cheesy. It's just lighthearted comedy? I don't know what could possibly be cringe-worthy about it. Is it just because it's a "children's show" and you're an adult? I don't get it. But whatever flips your skirt up I guess. For an actual post about the show, I'm really excited to be getting back to supposedly weekly episodes. The bombs were just too much for me trying to avoid spoilers every day.
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Jul 28, 2015 22:22
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Ursine Asylum posted:I'm not sure. If this were another show then yeah, the buildup would absolutely scream "secretly actually bad", but given that Steven's primary reaction to her is less "idolization" and more "I don't know what to think of you", I don't think it's going to be as much of a BIG REVEAL as it could be. There's certainly going to be some uncomfortable truths at some point, but honestly I think it's going to be the kind of thing where it'll be hitting the Gems (and if it goes in the direction I think it'll go, Garnet/Ruby especially) harder than it hits Steven. I kinda just don't think it will be any sort of "gem magic laser pew pew pew" space type thing, since that isn't anything anyone watching reacts to. Like maybe she will end up being pink diamond or whatever and that will be part of the plot at one level but no one finds out their mom was actually a traitor in some magical war, I more thing at some point steven is going to hear a story where like, she yells at greg a lot, or they break up for a while or even she doesn't understand that kissing another guy isn't okay or something very human like that, where he has to come to terms with his idealized mother being a person. because that IS a thing people have to deal with.
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Jul 28, 2015 22:33
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We've talked a lot about what will happen when we meet other Pearls and Amethysts, but what if Steven meets another Rose Quartz?
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Jul 28, 2015 22:47
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pksage posted:We've talked a lot about what will happen when we meet other Pearls and Amethysts, but what if Steven meets another Rose Quartz? Hopefully it goes better then the last time he met another Steven. I'm just waiting for the reaction from homeworld gems when they figure out what Steven actually is, Jasper seemed to just think Rose was playing some kinda trick. Lapis maybe knows...? Caidin fucked around with this message at 22:59 on Jul 28, 2015 |
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Jul 28, 2015 22:56
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:I kinda just don't think it will be any sort of "gem magic laser pew pew pew" space type thing, since that isn't anything anyone watching reacts to. Like maybe she will end up being pink diamond or whatever and that will be part of the plot at one level but no one finds out their mom was actually a traitor in some magical war, I more thing at some point steven is going to hear a story where like, she yells at greg a lot, or they break up for a while or even she doesn't understand that kissing another guy isn't okay or something very human like that, where he has to come to terms with his idealized mother being a person. because that IS a thing people have to deal with. Steven Universe deals with many real problems humans (especially kids) deal with in an indirect sense when it would be either too sensitive or on-the-nose to do it literally. "Alone Together" uses Steven and Connie accidentally fusing as a pretty clear metaphor for dealing with puberty, sexuality, and probably gender identity (Stevonnie is canonically genderless, something incredibly rare with humans in cartoons). Likewise, finding out that Rose did awful things in the past that she was trying to atone for with her rebellion is a way to deal with kids learning that their parents and/or authority figures that they trust may have been really lovely people (or done lovely things that they believed were correct or normal). Kids don't need to literally see Rose and Greg having actual domestic disputes to understand a message about your parents' imperfections and how what they did in their youth doesn't necessarily mean they're permanently terrible people today, any more than kids don't need to literally see Steven and Connie getting caught making out by Garnet to understand what "Alone Together" is trying to portray.
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Jul 28, 2015 23:00
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chitoryu12 posted:Steven Universe deals with many real problems humans (especially kids) deal with in an indirect sense when it would be either too sensitive or on-the-nose to do it literally. "Alone Together" uses Steven and Connie accidentally fusing as a pretty clear metaphor for dealing with puberty, sexuality, and probably gender identity (Stevonnie is canonically genderless, something incredibly rare with humans in cartoons). Likewise, finding out that Rose did awful things in the past that she was trying to atone for with her rebellion is a way to deal with kids learning that their parents and/or authority figures that they trust may have been really lovely people (or done lovely things that they believed were correct or normal). I guess I mean everyone sort of agrees we are going to find out rose did something bad in the past steven isn't hearing about. But I think we are going to have to learn some personal flaws along with the really abstract high concept space battle stuff, even if the personal flaws come packaged in sci-fi metaphor. Like I don't think this is a show steven is just going to have to learn to deal with his dead mom being a war criminal in a fantasy war, because who cares about that? he is going to have to learn to deal with her being a person and that being okay.
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Jul 28, 2015 23:05
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Caidin posted:Hopefully it goes better then the last time he met another Steven. Steven is going to have to kill his mom.
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Jul 28, 2015 23:11
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MariusLecter posted:Steven is going to have to kill his mom. He already did!
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Jul 28, 2015 23:14
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chitoryu12 posted:Kids don't need to literally see Rose and Greg having actual domestic disputes to understand a message about your parents' imperfections and how what they did in their youth doesn't necessarily mean they're permanently terrible people today, any more than kids don't need to literally see Steven and Connie getting caught making out by Garnet to understand what "Alone Together" is trying to portray. Rose and Greg could have a fight about whether or not forming Rainbow Quartz with Pearl is a betrayal of her intimacy & commitment with Greg and whether she needs to stop doing it. Like, I kinda wouldn't expect the show to go there, but god who knows.
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Jul 28, 2015 23:15
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pksage posted:We've talked a lot about what will happen when we meet other Pearls and Amethysts, but what if Steven meets another Rose Quartz? Speaking of this, what if gems don't actually look similar to each other? What if we meet a character that we've never seen before from homeworld, and find out it's another Amethyst, but it looks nothing like Amethyst? We're only assuming that they'll look similar to each other, because of the implication that some gems are mass produced, but maybe that is wrong. We've never actually seen other gems of the same type before.
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Jul 28, 2015 23:21
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Macaluso posted:He already did! Oh, a lesson in not starting interstellar wars from mister "I'm my own mother!"
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Jul 28, 2015 23:34
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Urban Wizard posted:I've experienced second hand embarrassment before so I know what it feels like. What I don't understand is how you can possibly get that from SU. There's nothing like a character doing something that will have embarrassing or humiliating consequences for them, or doing something painfully stupid or cheesy. It's just lighthearted comedy? I don't know what could possibly be cringe-worthy about it. Is it just because it's a "children's show" and you're an adult? I don't get it. But whatever flips your skirt up I guess. Yeah, I'd rather it be weekly episodes than bombs... unless there was a going to be a multi-episode arc, like with season one finale.
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Jul 28, 2015 23:48
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Urban Wizard posted:I've experienced second hand embarrassment before so I know what it feels like. What I don't understand is how you can possibly get that from SU. There's nothing like a character doing something that will have embarrassing or humiliating consequences for them, or doing something painfully stupid or cheesy. Not to re-derail, but "Fusion Cuisine" jumps out at me as one that really flipped my skirt, as it were. It's more bits and pieces here and there than full episodes, generally, but yeah. v  vMr.Pibbleton posted:Yeah, I'd rather it be weekly episodes than bombs... unless there was a going to be a multi-episode arc, like with season one finale. Honestly I think I'd prefer bombs, especially if it means they can break out of their 10 minute episode limitations a bit easier by making serialized baby arcs without worrying too much about cliffhangers.
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Jul 29, 2015 00:00
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I prefer the weekly format because the bombs tend to have this high tension atmosphere, Pearl and Garnet are fighting! Homeworld is coming! I like this show a lot better when the primary cast isn't completely on edge.
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Jul 29, 2015 00:09
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You know if the show lasts long enough, and enough time passes in universe, Garnet catching Steven and Connie making out isn't all that hard to see happening eventually(I'll be rather surprised if by the end of Season 3 Steven and Connie haven't had at least one actual romantic kiss, especially considering they almost have at least once or twice already)
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Jul 29, 2015 00:10
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pksage posted:[ X ] 5 - Strongly Agree Plus it started the whole "Onion is secretly a Lich/Gem leader/other evil creature" thing:  Although to be honest "Onion Friend" (which I did like) proved that he was human, which only raises further questions about his weirdness.  Rising Tides/Crashing Skies is worth it to me solely for Ronaldo's reaction in this scene: quote:Peedee: Well this relates to your movie. You said it yourself, the Gems cause all the weird stuff in Beach City, so now that they're gone, there'll be no more weird stuff. 
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Jul 29, 2015 00:33
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Zebia posted:Speaking of this, what if gems don't actually look similar to each other? What if we meet a character that we've never seen before from homeworld, and find out it's another Amethyst, but it looks nothing like Amethyst? We're only assuming that they'll look similar to each other, because of the implication that some gems are mass produced, but maybe that is wrong. We've never actually seen other gems of the same type before. I'd definitely expect other Amethysts to look different due to her "overcooked" status, things like Pearls on the other hand I'd guess to have the same overall shape/colouring but a few minor differences such as eyes, outfits and hairstyles.
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Jul 29, 2015 00:44
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Zebia posted:Speaking of this, what if gems don't actually look similar to each other? What if we meet a character that we've never seen before from homeworld, and find out it's another Amethyst, but it looks nothing like Amethyst? We're only assuming that they'll look similar to each other, because of the implication that some gems are mass produced, but maybe that is wrong. We've never actually seen other gems of the same type before. Yeah, I don't see any reason why they would look similar apart from their actual gems and possibly their color schemes, given that their bodies are projections that they're constantly revising. There's also a lot of potential for confusion if the show starts introducing new characters who are identical to the main cast.
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Jul 29, 2015 00:53
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fade5 posted:Although to be honest "Onion Friend" (which I did like) proved that he was human, which only raises further questions about his weirdness. Well, assuming that Vidalia is human. We don't ever actually see her eat (except for the cup of tea - which I don't think we see her drink), and Sour Cream doesn't even have a plate in front of him.
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Jul 29, 2015 01:05
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Besesoth posted:Well, assuming that Vidalia is human. We don't ever actually see her eat (except for the cup of tea - which I don't think we see her drink), and Sour Cream doesn't even have a plate in front of him. What if the gempire is making warrior gems to fight a terrifying race of space onions 
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Jul 29, 2015 01:07
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fade5 posted:Plus it started the whole "Onion is secretly a Lich/Gem leader/other evil creature" thing: I felt like 'Onion Friend' made it clear that Onion is just a product of his unconventional family life and eccentric family.
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Jul 29, 2015 01:19
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The creators of the show made some deep lore, but then they very fastidiously refuse to show us more than a tiny amount of anything that the title character isn't paying attention to. Every scene is strictly from Steven's point of view. The result is that any time they want to dredge something out of the super dramatic backstory, they first have to make Steven grow up enough to understand it, and any time they want to delve into a supporting character's mindset, they have to make Steven grow up enough to empathize with them. This is a good trick, I think, because it means the focus remains on the characters and that the fictional history is extremely emotionally relevant when they finally get to cut loose with it.
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Jul 29, 2015 01:21
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CherryCat posted:I'd definitely expect other Amethysts to look different due to her "overcooked" status, things like Pearls on the other hand I'd guess to have the same overall shape/colouring but a few minor differences such as eyes, outfits and hairstyles. When gems regenerate they all seem to go through their past forms and they all start as a blank doll. I would assume that that blank is their base shape and they can customize from there.   Like I think even that base form must have some flexibility but amethyst is a master shape shifter and she could just barely hold regenerated forms that really changed her base shape. And they mostly seemed like her breaking herself instead of making real functional changes.
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Jul 29, 2015 01:40
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