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I've played Pendragon 3 times now: full scenario playing all sides, barbarian conspiracy 1v1 with a COIN newbie (playing as barbs vs his brits), and most recently the medium length scenario versus the bots -- I started as both barbs and then went to playing Scotti (8.9 of the rules covers this bit). Overall I agree with Tekopo's criticism that it's too heavy on the dice. Dice are most prominently used for: - the barbarians' most used command, Raid - the feats Reinforce, Settle, Ransom, and Surprise - in Battles for the ability to ambush or evade - Most of the Epoch events and the Scotti pivotal event And it's easy to get diced. If the Saxons roll pretty well in plopping down a lot of raiders or evading defenders (in the swamps a group of Saxon raiders has can evade half the time) there's not much the Dux can do to protect prosperity, while if barbs roll poorly on a Settle feat they can fail to place any warbands, which really hurts. And I do appreciate that the barbs are more dependent on chance for their actions than the Britons are, but while this makes for some asymmetric gameplay and makes thematic sense, it does not help with the balance problem and the overabundance of dice-chucking. This is why Labyrinth isn't too strong as a 2-player game but is pretty good as solitaire, I think. Perhaps the same applies here. Anyway, too many luck-based actions and not enough ways to mitigate that luck. It's pretty obvious that when I have to roll 15d6 (for a Settle feat in good circumstances) or 9d4 (large Saxon Raid) we're getting too reliant on dice and moving away from the (relative?) elegance of COIN designs.
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Mar 19, 2018 01:41
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| # ? Jun 7, 2024 12:33 |
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Better make it a blog post, Tek!
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Mar 19, 2018 13:45
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Yeah, it's probably gonna be a dual 1853/Pendragon review. My issues with Pendragon in a nutshell: - The combat is deterministic but this is obfuscated by the fact that ambush/evade rolls are so important (and only have a few modifiers) and the fact that raid rolls are basically combat rolls in disguise (do I have enough raiders to destroy this stronghold y/n). - The events are really powerful and game-changing. - An entire part of the game is locked behind the Scotti being able to roll 5+ or the Saxons being able to roll 4+. - We got into a loop where the Dux was able to spend all my money, then I'd be forced to trade and then potentially get my wealth up, and then he'd spend all my money again. This culminated with him requisitioning my wealth at chunks of 6 with a special action. At this point I should have just started battling him so he couldn't requisition but this would have probably made my lose anyway. It's hard to gain civilian dominance when the game gives levers to the Dux that they can just push to make it impossible for me up wealth/decrease his prestige. Maybe I missed something but once I got into that spiral I couldn't see a way to really get out of it, which was pretty boring for me. - Doing trade + rule is reaaaaaally boring as an action but seemingly necessary if you want to get anywhere as the Civitates.
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Mar 19, 2018 15:31
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Yeah, I can see how that would make for a decent solitaire game, but not a very good multiplayer game.Tekopo posted:- The events are really powerful and game-changing. Isn't this moderately true for every COIN game though? Or do you mean especially broken?
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Mar 19, 2018 15:44
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Tekopo posted:Yeah, it's probably gonna be a dual 1853/Pendragon review. Making a note of this, particularly the last observation.
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Mar 19, 2018 15:55
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COOL CORN posted:Isn't this moderately true for every COIN game though? Or do you mean especially broken? CommonShore posted:Making a note of this, particularly the last observation. EDIT: I mean, you can do something else instead of trade, but that's gonna drive your limited resource (and they are even more limited if the Dux have anything to do about it).
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Mar 19, 2018 16:07
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COOL CORN posted:Isn't this moderately true for every COIN game though? Or do you mean especially broken? Different COIN games have differently powerful events. Andean Abyss is notable for a lot of weak events, for example.
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Mar 19, 2018 16:08
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Oh one thing I forgot is that my Dux opponent would get stuck in the following loop: "Oh the Civitates player is above his victory threshold, I should just do random trains, build loads of towns for prestige and requisition money/wealth away from him even at army preemption even though there's no way that he can get his wealth ten above my prestige" Next turn, when my victory threshold is still above the line (because none of his actions actually hurt my control bar preventing me from getting civilian dominance): "Oh the Civitates player is above his victory threshold, I should just do random trains, build loads of towns for prestige and requisition money/wealth away from him even at army preemption even though there's no way that he can get his wealth ten above my prestige" This culminated in me almost shouting at him when I pointed out that the Saxons had 5 settlements on the board and was only 3 renown away from actually winning the game (which they eventually did anyway).
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Mar 19, 2018 16:13
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Also the design notes of CL explicitly stated that the events were meant to be very powerful due to how important outside intervention was in that conflict.
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Mar 20, 2018 15:28
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I was listening to the most recent episode of Rally in the Valley, and they were talking about The Lamps Are Going Out. I've been on a bit of a early 1900s-WWI kick lately, and it looks like an interesting game. I don't think I've seen it mentioned around these parts before; do any of y'all have experience/thoughts about it?
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Mar 22, 2018 00:59
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Athaboros posted:I was listening to the most recent episode of Rally in the Valley, and they were talking about The Lamps Are Going Out. I've been on a bit of a early 1900s-WWI kick lately, and it looks like an interesting game. I don't think I've seen it mentioned around these parts before; do any of y'all have experience/thoughts about it? I haven't played it personally, but it got great reviews and people in the FB Wargaming group seem to have loved it.
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Mar 22, 2018 01:41
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I took the plunge for a PnP of Horse & Musket from Hollandspiele and it's decent but not great. Pro: there is a ton of content even in the first volume, spanning the Nine Years War, Spanish Succession, Great Northern War and the early Jacobite uprisings. I'm a fan of the aestethics of the game including the minimalist counters. Highly solitairable due to randomized Command Points (but see below) and no hidden information. Con: Tons and tons of die rolls. Attacking in melee requires a morale roll, a counterfire roll, an attack roll, and then another morale roll in case of retreat. The system is based on buckets of dice with a to hit number depending on unit type and range. The scenario design seems to favor the historical winners overwhelmingly even with asymmetrical victory conditions. The historical winners get more base Command Points which is crippling for the side with lower points. The manual is somewhat unclear and there are a ton of optional rules which makes the game feel somewhat half-finished. Overall good value for 15$ (PnP), but you can do better for 85$ (Boxed version)  Setup for Fraustadt
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Mar 22, 2018 11:27
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From CSW:quote:Hey BCS folks. Brazen Chariots is going to be added to the MMP site very soon for pre-order. :gasp: Brazen Chariots will cover operations Brevity, Battleaxe, and Crusader in the BCS system.
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Mar 22, 2018 13:38
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I’m moving and might be interested in selling or trading some games before we pack, are BGG or eBay my best option? Moving every two years really isn’t convenient. The last move resulted in me spending hours reassembling / sorting games pieces forever and the moving company is a bastard about damaged boxes. Andean Abyss, Reluctant Enemies, ASL SK1, CSI #28 w/Unconditional Surrender - Case Blue, and the lock-n-load Vietnam and WW2 primers.
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Mar 23, 2018 02:29
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Ropes4u posted:I’m moving and might be interested in selling or trading some games before we pack, are BGG or eBay my best option? Moving every two years really isn’t convenient. The last move resulted in me spending hours reassembling / sorting games pieces forever and the moving company is a bastard about damaged boxes. Depending on what you're looking to get, I miiiiiight be interested in RE and ASL SK1
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Mar 23, 2018 02:32
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Wargamer's Marketplace on Facebook will usually net you a quick sale in a day or less, depending on the offerings. ASLSK1 is out of print currently so it'll go fast.
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Mar 23, 2018 03:33
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Compass Games has just announced a second edition of The Lamps Are Going Out is up for preorder for $57. Comes with mounted maps and new event cards. I have the first edition and placed an order as the quality of the paper map is pretty lousy, especially at the creases/folds.
AARP LARPer fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Mar 23, 2018 |
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Mar 23, 2018 18:06
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I got Cuba Libre finally can't wait to play
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Mar 23, 2018 18:22
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Ropes4u posted:I’m moving and might be interested in selling or trading some games before we pack, are BGG or eBay my best option? Moving every two years really isn’t convenient. The last move resulted in me spending hours reassembling / sorting games pieces forever and the moving company is a bastard about damaged boxes. If Corn decides against it and depending on what you'd want to sell it for, I'd buy ASL SK1 from you.
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Mar 23, 2018 20:22
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Ropes4u posted:I’m moving and might be interested in selling or trading some games before we pack, are BGG or eBay my best option? Moving every two years really isn’t convenient. The last move resulted in me spending hours reassembling / sorting games pieces forever and the moving company is a bastard about damaged boxes. I'm interested in C3I #28 depending on price and shipping cost.
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Mar 23, 2018 22:04
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GMT just posted about updating the COIN series, Volumes I-IV. Looks like FitL and AA are getting the most serious revision work, with FitL getting a new rule book and deck of cards (80 cards total, 10 of which are changed, the other 70 with an icon update, whatever that means), and all are getting new bots and player aids. the CL and ADP ones are packaged together, and come out pretty cheap ($10 on p500), so it might be worth a look even if you only own one. From what I can tell, the only super essential ones would be the FitL and AA ones, as those actually introduce card text changes. I think all VPJ's work on the bots that has been published via C3i spurred this into action, along with the basic question of "why arent there bots and solo rules for all factions?" Anyway, Fire in the Lake version 2 will be out there soon.
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Mar 24, 2018 01:19
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Lord Frisk posted:GMT just posted about updating the COIN series, Volumes I-IV. Looks like FitL and AA are getting the most serious revision work, with FitL getting a new rule book and deck of cards (80 cards total, 10 of which are changed, the other 70 with an icon update, whatever that means), and all are getting new bots and player aids. the CL and ADP ones are packaged together, and come out pretty cheap ($10 on p500), so it might be worth a look even if you only own one. I like the idea of new bots for CL. I also P500ed the new Volko game, though I might get buyer's remorse and cancel as I have a few solitaire purchases I haven't played yet.
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Mar 24, 2018 01:34
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I just looked it up and it's been four years since they introduced that Mr. President game, christ. It's been pushed back to late '18/early '19.
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Mar 24, 2018 02:14
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With the current presidency, it would be more topical to have a choose-your-own Watergate game, instead.
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Mar 24, 2018 02:37
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Pretty solid GMT update posted today. Kinda disappointed there still isn't a second 18xx P500ed yet but that's probably outside the scope of this thread.
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Mar 24, 2018 02:39
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I was planning to finally pick up ADP with this printing, but I'll probably still pay $10 just for the CL bots. And also get the FITL kit. And Ariovistus. Bots for every faction even have me considering AA now. Meanwhile, I still haven't played Pendragon beyond the tutorial.
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Mar 24, 2018 14:11
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Ropes4u posted:I’m moving and might be interested in selling or trading some games before we pack, are BGG or eBay my best option? Moving every two years really isn’t convenient. The last move resulted in me spending hours reassembling / sorting games pieces forever and the moving company is a bastard about damaged boxes. How much for, erm, Case Blue?
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Mar 24, 2018 18:01
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tomdidiot posted:How much for, erm, Case Blue?
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Mar 24, 2018 21:26
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Well, I'm a man of my word. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=564TeeOKujo
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Mar 24, 2018 22:43
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Tekopo posted:I think that's Unconditional Surrender Case Blue, not OCS Case Blue. Correct, sorry for triggering the OCS fans..
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Mar 24, 2018 22:46
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COOL CORN posted:Well, I'm a man of my word.  Edit: no one has recorded more than Treviers? 
Sleekly fucked around with this message at 09:34 on Mar 25, 2018 |
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Mar 25, 2018 08:26
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Sleekly posted:
Not that I’ve seen! Certainly not Korea, though I feel like I saw someone play Vietnam once.
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Mar 25, 2018 12:15
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Figured the wargaming folks might think this is cool, since I don't know where else to post it. Visited two battlegrounds today that are near where I live, and recreated a couple of famous photos. Devil's Den, Gettysburg   Bloody Lane, Antietam  
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Mar 25, 2018 18:29
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It is incredibly sobering to stand in the Sunken Lane at Anteitam, look at the lay of the land approaching it, and truly realize how bad the dudes who attacked it over and over again were completely hosed.
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Mar 25, 2018 19:46
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Yeah...
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Mar 25, 2018 19:57
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It’s definitely one thing to see pictures or read books, but totally humbling to stand in the Exact spots
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Mar 25, 2018 20:04
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That's heavy. Wow.
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Mar 25, 2018 20:35
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I don't know about Sunken Lane but Sunken Road in Fredericksburg where some 1,000 Union soldiers died is where college kids go to not be sober.
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Mar 25, 2018 20:40
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I played through one epoch of Pendragon yesterday. That's not much, so I'm still forming my thoughts and I probably got a few things wrong. One thing that baffles me, though, is that the Dux bot seems suicidal. He kept inviting Foederati even when that drove Briton resources to zero a few cards before the Epoch. In previous games, there was a clause in the flowcharts that said something like "as long as resources > 5, then...", but I don't see that on the Dux chart. This meant that they all reverted to Scotti and Saxon during the Annona phase, giving me (Scotti) a massive free boost toward my victory condition. I hadn't been able to establish a settlement on my own (due to terrible luck on my Settle rolls). The battle system is more complicated than any other COIN, but it's not difficult to internalize since there's a battle nearly every turn and the "odds of taking out a stronghold" cheat sheet is a big help. All the charts are more thorough than ever. It also seemed like very few events were worth taking, and that the best bet for the insurgent factions is to just keep raiding and returning (with settle attempts). Hopefully that changes as the epochs wear on and there's less prosperity on the board, as well as fewer strongholds to ransom.
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Mar 26, 2018 14:25
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| # ? Jun 7, 2024 12:33 |
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Carl Fung has just posted that MMP have put up three new games on pre-order! https://boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/75172/new-phone-books-here-new-phone-books-here-new-game BCS Brazen Chariots SCS Rostov 41 TCS Ariete I'm actually sort of excited about Brazen Chariots; It's a part of the desert war that receives relatively little attention compared to Gazala, El Alamein or Tunisia.
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Mar 26, 2018 22:14
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