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Three-Phase posted:I've been budgeting for some kind of MakerBot, but this (reliability/warranty as well as parts availability and support) is one of my concerns. Depends on how you define the generations, which is doubly hard because some of the changes might be considered generational shifts to some people, and to others not. Another big issue, as others have pointed out, is that the movement mechanism is generally far more advanced and accurate then the software, or the extruder, can keep up with. Further complicating things is that all of the 3d printer manufacturers are producing 'works in progress'- in that if they find something that's just outright better then will replace without calling it a new machine. With all of that said the replicator is proven as one of the best on the market and proven as the best 'off the shelf' 3d printer. The downside of being proven, complete, and tested, is that it will be slightly behind the curve. The upside of course is that you won't spend a lot of time (and money) having to revamp something because somebody made a poor decision on parts/capabilities. Myself I went for the makergear M2, largely because of the metal frame vs laser cut plywood; it is however a newer overall design then the replicator, which means that it may have faults waiting to be discovered, or it may be a superior product, or it may be competitive with its own quirks. Right off the bat, the replicator has the following going for it: 1- XY movement is just the print head (superior print speeds, higher accuracy when at high speed) 2- Dual extruder available and supported (I don't think anyone else has dual extruder available off the bat, and support is still in the 'super-beta' stage) 3- Proven design and company
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Sep 3, 2012 16:05
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Three-Phase posted:I've been budgeting for some kind of MakerBot, but this (reliability/warranty as well as parts availability and support) is one of my concerns. As was stated "generation" refers to a lot of different parts of the machine. To elaborate more, you can buy a gen 4 electronics kit from Makerbot, or you can buy a MK7 extruder from Makerbot. If you buy a replicator you will get a run of the mill, third iteration Makerbot, so to speak, in that this is the third printer that they have produced and sold in any form. They originally were selling the "Cupcake CNC" which was a tiny, functional printer that came as a kit. Following the success of the Cupcake, they made the "Thing-O-Matic" which could be purchased as an assembled printer that would "just work." Following that is our current generation Makerbot, the Replicator. This printer kind of has two hardware iterations as options at checkout, you can get a single or a dual extrusion system. The single extruder is referred to as "MK7" and the Dual Extrusion System is referred to as "MK8," however both systems have the same extruder hardware, just the fact that they put two of them next to each other called for a new revision name.
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Sep 3, 2012 18:43
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Is anyone printing with polycarbonate? I bought a roll of 3mm PC from Orbi-Tech.de and so far it has been a pain to work with. First I had issues getting it to stick to the printbed using Kapton tape. I could only get the bed up to 95-100 C, which probably was the problem. Then I made some ABS glue to smear on the printbed and that worked. Now I'm having problems with my prints cracking when they cool. e: I'm now trying cooling the print well while printing it, so any contraction occurs before too many additional layers are added. I'll see if it worked in a couple of hours Anta fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Sep 3, 2012 |
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Sep 3, 2012 21:09
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Linux Assassin posted:Right off the bat, the replicator has the following going for it: Is the dual extruder super beta for the replicator, or other 3d printers? How do you specify a second color for printing? How hard is it to use the PVA water soluble filament makerbot sells?
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Sep 4, 2012 00:18
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Spazzle posted:Is the dual extruder super beta for the replicator, or other 3d printers? How do you specify a second color for printing? How hard is it to use the PVA water soluble filament makerbot sells? The Dual Extrusion on the Replicator is "Beta" but it's supported well enough. To determine the second color you just load filaments of the color choice you have and then say which part of the model you want in each color (if you're lost, look up dual extrusion in Replicator G) Using PVA plastic is as easy as using any other plastic in the printers, just find the temperature (175C ish) and then print. *Protip if you're using PVA air moisture will ruin you, so when you're done printing, put it away with a silica pack or something.
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Sep 4, 2012 02:08
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Spazzle posted:Is the dual extruder super beta for the replicator, or other 3d printers? How do you specify a second color for printing? How hard is it to use the PVA water soluble filament makerbot sells? Like UberVexer said, on the replicator the dual extruder is beta, but supported. On basically everyone else its unsupported super-beta may possibly work. That fact alone definitely lets the replicator claim to be the 'most advanced 3d printer on the market' without lying. There is actually an option for 'dual extruder support material' in the print setup, whenever the printer needs support material it uses the second extruder. I've never seen it working, but I have heard from others that it is pretty fantastic.
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Sep 4, 2012 04:02
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Linux Assassin posted:I've never seen it working, but I have heard from others that it is pretty fantastic. I've used the experimental profile before, it's very fantastic. PLA dissolves in alcohol and PVA dissolves in water, which makes for very clean, easy support removal. When using the profile I noticed that the printer had to take a second to think about switching extruders, like it was doing math of "where the gently caress is X going to be now?" It's cool and functional at this point in time, but it's experimental. Edit: I'd like to throw a question out as well, in SolidWorks there is a 3D Printing option, anyway to directly send things to a MakerBot or RepRap from that or am I stuck in the software for the printers using STL exports? UberVexer fucked around with this message at 05:40 on Sep 4, 2012 |
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Sep 4, 2012 05:17
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The repman 3.2 is available with a dual head & has been for ages.
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Sep 4, 2012 07:52
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Cakefool posted:The repman 3.2 is available with a dual head & has been for ages. True, some of the DIY types are anti 3D Systems though, being the Cube printer is the anti-open source.
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Sep 5, 2012 00:44
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21 hours to go on Tangibot kickstarter  http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2117793364/the-tangibot-3d-printer-the-affordable-makerbot-re
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Sep 7, 2012 07:23
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Haha:TangiBot Blurb posted:It’s an amazing thing to hold something in your hand that was only a thought 
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Sep 7, 2012 12:54
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So I've read a lot about CNC and what goes into precision in terms of ballscrews, servos etc. But how do you get really clean, really precise prints when you're extruding melting plastic?
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Sep 9, 2012 19:47
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Tres Burritos posted:So I've read a lot about CNC and what goes into precision in terms of ballscrews, servos etc. But how do you get really clean, really precise prints when you're extruding melting plastic? Most of the firmware will take care of this beyond what you should care about. The short answer is you control the flow of the plastic using a Stepper Motor, they are more powerful than a servo and are controlled kind of differently. Using some trial and error based on your machine you can figure out what works best, but scientifically people have figured out how much materials expand when they are heated in a 3D printer and have calculated flow rates that will produce strong, accurate parts. Essentially to the end user it boils down to typing in your filament diameter, which is decided by your printer's extruder, and the temperature you want to print at, which varies by the material you'd like to use. If you use colored plastics you might note that they have different temperature properties, printing in black ABS at the temperature that you extruded green ABS at perfectly might cause a lovely print. Just keep trying until you're happy with it. Once you get your printer printing correctly you really just gently caress with the temperature with different materials. Another thing one could do to increase accuracy is to change the printer's nozzle. On my Prusa Mendel I have a .5mm nozzle, which is pretty terrible, if I wanted to change it out I could just screw on a smaller one, change my slicing settings to say "Nozzle Diameter = .25mm" and then the software would do the math for me. Supposedly it will keep getting easier in the future, but it's pretty easy now.
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Sep 9, 2012 20:00
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Tangibot's kickstarter raised only about <50k (out of 500,000 goal). If nothing else, it's a lesson that you never get a second chance to make a first impression. The Tangibot page is a MUCH different read than I remember it being originally. If you're at all interested in the meta-issue here, the Wired article is interesting. http://www.wired.com/design/2012/08/tangibot-makerbot-clone/ I feel like something happened and was discovered, here. Lessons to be learned. And this isn't meant the way it's going to sound (i.e. mean) but it's at the very least kind of amazing to see a Kickstarter for a 3D printer manage to totally tank 
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Sep 9, 2012 20:34
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Mister Sinewave posted:Tangibot's kickstarter raised only about <50k (out of 500,000 goal). He was portrayed as a villain by the community very early in the game, even Josef Prusa was talking down towards the campaign and that's how a lot of people looked at it... then they stopped caring.
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Sep 9, 2012 21:08
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Someone else just put up a Kickstarter for another Makerbot-based printer. Except this one actually includes a number of meaningful improvements, not least of which is the acrylic frame (Okay, so the Tangibot also offered that one): http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2105227104/ultra-bot-3d-printer?ref=category $900 for the kit with the heated bed? Not bad. I've also just found someone else offering a turnkey system along the lines of the Cube, except it's built from industrial grade materials (plus it takes standard filament reels): http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/25111729/hyrel-3d-printer?ref=live If you were considering the Cube, they're offering the single extruder version (upgradeable) for roughly the same price.
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Sep 12, 2012 19:31
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Taking UberVexer's advice on the last page to look at a RepRap kit, I'm seeing this one, which looks pretty nice. The kits are $1,300. http://airwolf3d.com/ I mean, the name is ridiculous, but I like the look and features of it. Hmm. Anyone have any information or gut reactions about it?
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Sep 12, 2012 21:51
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Locus posted:Taking UberVexer's advice on the last page to look at a RepRap kit, I'm seeing this one, which looks pretty nice. The kits are $1,300. If you're going to assemble a kit. Get a Hadron ORD Bot kit. For an extruder, all you need is to buy a Wade's extruder from ebay and a J-Head from the maker. For electronics, you can get a RAMPS assembled kit for $185 from Ultimachine. Add a $35 30A power supply and a MK1(don't buy a MK2 they are bad) heated bed. You can even save some more money and get a Chinese Arduino MEGA1280 off ebay and the drivers from pololu and just stick them on an assembled RAMPS board. The nice thing about Hadrons is there are way fewer parts than assembling a RepRap and a lot less finicky about getting everything square. All aluminum so the thing is rigid as heck.
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Sep 12, 2012 23:46
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Ok so I've had my Solidoodle2 for a little while now. One thing I'd like to point out/gripe about is that the picture in the OP and the main site is misleading. The picture shows the clear plexi-door as having a black handle. What you actually get is the clear plexi-door with no handle at all, rather a hole has been cut out that you hook your finger through and the door is held shut by a cheap magnet strip (when mine arrived the magnet was falling off and I had to re-attach it). Its a little disappointing and I'm going to have to end up printing one for it... add that to my to-do list.   Another gripe was that the pvc pipe that juts out of the back for the filament spool to sit on makes the spool sit 90 degrees to the printer itself and tends to cause feeding errors. I dont use mine, instead making my own cheap pvc pipe rack but someone on thingiverse (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:28904) created a spool holder replacement to fix the issue. One last user fix was a bushing for the back hole where the filament is fed. I don't know if the filament scraping against the metal edge of the hole creates that much filament dust, but I had a clog already so I put one in anyways. (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:30047) I like my printer a lot, I really do. Its the company itself that has gotten on my nerves. I made an order for replacement 2mm Kapton tape (the original is thinner and many people report gouges and tears in it straight out of the shipping box from testing). About 3 weeks later I send them an email asking for the status of my order and they sent me back a generic reply about production of the solidoodle2 machine itself. I had to email them again before I got real response asking for my order number again. I sent them that number and got another reply asking for the number again which means they didn't even read the email I sent them.
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Sep 13, 2012 01:05
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Blackchamber posted:Ok so I've had my Solidoodle2 for a little while now. That's seriously disappointing; I thought the solidoodle was a consumer's 3D printer, what they were showing at Maker Faire last year was something that I would have given to my parents. How do you feel about print quality of the machine?
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Sep 13, 2012 06:36
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Obsurveyor posted:If you're going to assemble a kit. Get a Hadron ORD Bot kit. For an extruder, all you need is to buy a Wade's extruder from ebay and a J-Head from the maker. For electronics, you can get a RAMPS assembled kit for $185 from Ultimachine. Add a $35 30A power supply and a MK1(don't buy a MK2 they are bad) heated bed. You can even save some more money and get a Chinese Arduino MEGA1280 off ebay and the drivers from pololu and just stick them on an assembled RAMPS board. drat, that does look pretty great. I'll have to think about it (and sit down to do a couple hours of research), but the Hadron ORD seems like the best bet right now.
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Sep 13, 2012 14:42
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I still don't have a 3D printer yet, but I've been looking through Thingiverse today, and I noticed some items like ice cube trays, chocolate molds, cookie cutters, etc... and I was just wondering, are both ABS and PLA food-safe? Are either of them dishwasher safe?
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Sep 13, 2012 14:42
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I was considering the Solidoodle, but the lack of SD card support was a deal-breaker for me. The ORD Bot sounds like a great concept, but there appear to be a couple of little drawbacks: 1. It looks like it'd be pretty bulky relative to its build size. 2. There's no convenient place to stick the power supply and electronics. I've been tempted to design my own 3D printer based on Makerslides and aluminum extrusions, except more in the style of the Makerbot. thexerox123 posted:I still don't have a 3D printer yet, but I've been looking through Thingiverse today, and I noticed some items like ice cube trays, chocolate molds, cookie cutters, etc... and I was just wondering, are both ABS and PLA food-safe? Are either of them dishwasher safe? The federal government seems to think that PLA is safe: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7737601
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Sep 13, 2012 16:15
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Cockmaster posted:1. It looks like it'd be pretty bulky relative to its build size. quote:2. There's no convenient place to stick the power supply and electronics. PLA is probably not going to be dishwasher safe. The hot water will probably deform the plastic. ABS could probably make it through the dishwasher since it has a higher melting point. Untreated printed objects(ABS or PLA) should not be used for food(unless it's a one time use) because of the small voids where molds and stuff can grow. You need to treat it with something to fill in those voids. I have seen people talk about using some kind of wax but I don't know if anyone has ever done it.
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Sep 13, 2012 17:04
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thexerox123 posted:I still don't have a 3D printer yet, but I've been looking through Thingiverse today, and I noticed some items like ice cube trays, chocolate molds, cookie cutters, etc... and I was just wondering, are both ABS and PLA food-safe? Are either of them dishwasher safe?
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Sep 13, 2012 17:52
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UberVexer posted:That's seriously disappointing; I thought the solidoodle was a consumer's 3D printer, what they were showing at Maker Faire last year was something that I would have given to my parents. How do you feel about print quality of the machine? I'm a novice at 3D printing so I havent tried printing anything at finer settings than what the defaults are. Yet. I've downloaded things from thingiverse and printed most items without a hitch, so if that was something you envisioned your parents doing without having to fuss with it then I'd endorse the Solidoodle2. Thats if you don't have to fiddle with it. I got lucky it seems because mine came with the door and hood I ordered, while others got theirs or are waiting on theirs to ship separately. My Kapton tape arrived unscathed and it was common to find holes and gouges in them from rough testing. My bed was level. I was missing the power cord but they sent a replacement and I got it the next week. 2 guys on another forum got theirs in the mail smashed to pieces, sent emails to Solidoodle support and are getting the run around on getting theirs replaced. And don't expect that they'll keep in touch because if you aren't constantly contacting them they won't contact you. The appeal for me was they were selling a cheap printer that you could take out of the box and go right to printing and thats pretty much what I got. If thats what you get in the mail then everything is great, if not brace yourself.
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Sep 13, 2012 18:34
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Cockmaster posted:The federal government seems to think that PLA is safe: Pure PLA is food safe but that doesn't mean it's always made in a food safe manner. It could easily come from a factory where the air is filled with a fine mercury vapor or lead dust.
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Sep 13, 2012 22:16
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Obsurveyor posted:PLA is probably not going to be dishwasher safe. The hot water will probably deform the plastic. ABS could probably make it through the dishwasher since it has a higher melting point. Untreated printed objects(ABS or PLA) should not be used for food(unless it's a one time use) because of the small voids where molds and stuff can grow. You need to treat it with something to fill in those voids. I have seen people talk about using some kind of wax but I don't know if anyone has ever done it. PLA has a melting point at ~195 Celsius and ABS at ~220- I'm not sure that would make all the difference in your 70-100 Celsius dishwasher water- though like anything plastic in a dishwasher don't put it on the bottom rack (because the element may be significantly hotter then the steam), and don't use the 'heat disinfect' or 'heat+' cycle (which would apply to both ABS and PLA). FDM has inherit problems with having grooves where things could hide, which could be problematic, however any plastic surface which sees some abuse has similar small voids (IE- have an old plastic cup that you've been using metal spoons in to stir iced tea mix?), that's what agitation, 70+degree water, scrubbing, and anti-septic soaps generally hep protect against. So while yes an FDM print will have grooves where stuff can hide, right off the printer, I'm not sure how much of an issue it really is unless you have a weakened immune system from other factors. An Ice Cube tray would likely be about as safe and sanitary as any ice cube tray (hint; not very). Side note: My daughter's child-safe spoons are a mixture of PLA and silicone, it may be possible to produce similar 'silicone for the food facing bits; PLA for the structure' devices, and you can get food safe RTV silicones.
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Sep 14, 2012 03:54
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Linux Assassin posted:PLA has a melting point at ~195 Celsius and ABS at ~220- I'm not sure that would make all the difference in your 70-100 Celsius dishwasher water PLA softens at ~60 Celsius, so it would certainly not survive a dishwasher.
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Sep 14, 2012 04:47
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devians posted:PLA softens at ~60 Celsius, so it would certainly not survive a dishwasher. That probably explains why those spoons of my daughter's say 'not dishwasher safe' all over them.
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Sep 14, 2012 07:29
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Blackchamber posted:The appeal for me was they were selling a cheap printer that you could take out of the box and go right to printing and thats pretty much what I got. If thats what you get in the mail then everything is great, if not brace yourself. Sounds like I'd rather just get a Replicator or something at that rate. I felt that the Solidoodle was more appealing to the non maker generation because it looks like something for a human being. It doesn't look like an industrial machine. In other news: Ever have an idea for software that you start working on and then exists a week later, made by someone else. It happens to me often enough. But this is still a really cool program. http://www.hoektronics.com/2012/09/13/introducing-botqueue-open-distributed-manufacturing/
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Sep 14, 2012 18:47
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I really don't understand the appeal of things like the replicator and soliddoodle etc. 3D Printing isn't at a consumer friendly level yet. You're going to have to tinker and mess with it. And I'd much rather do that on a design I understand rather than an expensive black box solution. I personally run a MendelMax and get some great results out of it for not all that much work. Assembly was a doddle, getting the electronics set up was easy. The only hard part was doing all the wiring, and that was just tedious. The whole reprap community is iterating so fast now that things like the makerbot are 6 months to a year out of date by the time they launch, and it's good to keep on that forefront of learning and knowledge.
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Sep 15, 2012 10:16
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What features is the replicator behind on?
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Sep 15, 2012 14:07
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Further to that- what is 'black box' about the replicator? It's an open source project, that happens to ship your open source 3d printer fully assembled, calibrated, and in working order rather then the other companies that just send you a set of parts. Even further to that, the replicator seems to be one of the more active projects out there, and when you buy one you get whatever small iterations of upgrade have worked there way through there lab. Finally I'm not even sure what you say is true mechanically, for the most part, the 3d printers are about as advanced as they need to be (there is still room for improvements in extruder heads); it is the software where all of the advancements are being made, and all of the printers support upgrades to the software/using different software to drive the printer. Someone could absolutely come up with (and I believe some companies have), an absolutely solid design that has accuracy far in excess of what extruders will ever do, and well in excess of what the software can currently command accurately, call it 'future proof', and sell it. It would probably be based on a CNC mill, and bear a similar price tag, and it would likely support a CNC mill head- quite frankly nothing the open source community is doing right now exceeds the capabilities of a commercial CNC mill, and the open source CNC milling community was well in excess of the 3d printing community in hardware for a while (though they now seem to be using basically the same stuff); but it was not required, the software and the extruders could not meet the accuracy of the hardware. It would be radically out of scope in cost compared to the other 3d printers on the market, and a software/extruder that would support that level of accuracy may never exist- so all of the positional accuracy may be wasted. So even if you were to buy a 'black box' solution (assuming it was a good one), and 2 years from now someone comes out with some amazing leap forward in 3d printing that lets everyone get into the 10 micron range for accuracy; it'd likely either be a simple issue of replacing your extruder head, or running new software (or both).
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Sep 15, 2012 16:06
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Obsurveyor posted:If you're going to assemble a kit. Get a Hadron ORD Bot kit. For an extruder, all you need is to buy a Wade's extruder from ebay and a J-Head from the maker. For electronics, you can get a RAMPS assembled kit for $185 from Ultimachine. Add a $35 30A power supply and a MK1(don't buy a MK2 they are bad) heated bed. You can even save some more money and get a Chinese Arduino MEGA1280 off ebay and the drivers from pololu and just stick them on an assembled RAMPS board. Serious post, if I get everything in this list, will I have a complete, decent printer? The ORD kit looks really nice, I can believe it's good but I don't know about anything else here.
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Sep 15, 2012 19:15
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devians posted:
I picked these two items out from your post because they are related to how I use the things. I know what you mean by consumer friendly, but consumer friendly isn't really a binary state. I, for example, am comfortable tweaking or building but I am more interested in the printed objects themselves for practical purposes than I am interested in tweaking or optimizing that last 5-10% or whatever. So anything that helps me print better, faster, and easier is a plus to me - but there is a point of diminishing returns. I will deal with the gritty stuff to the extent that I must. Likewise, I am more interested in 'stable' rather than 'bleeding edge'. I am honestly not that interested in what's happening on the cutting edges of development, though I am highly interested in being able to print an object I designed, and get what I wanted and expected as a result. X micron layer height vs Y microns zzzzzzzzz
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Sep 15, 2012 19:41
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Cakefool posted:Serious post, if I get everything in this list, will I have a complete, decent printer? The ORD kit looks really nice, I can believe it's good but I don't know about anything else here. All the things and links I posted are the same things I bought and I like my printer a lot. Some people swear by the Chinese Arduinos but I just got the Ultimachine complete RAMPS. I got my power supply off ebay, a Sun Power 30A from a shipper in the US so I didn't have to wait weeks. I got my Wade's Hinged Accessible Extruder from someone on ebay. I bought a Mk1 off ebay but I don't use it because you don't need a heated bed for PLA if you are using painter's tape. You can get a 20A power supply if you aren't going to use a heated bed.
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Sep 15, 2012 20:26
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Spazzle posted:What features is the replicator behind on? I'm lost here too, what is missing? It has acceleration, LCD support, SD support... it basically has SDRAMPS. It's got a heated build platform and it uses 1.75mm filament. It does not have a Bowden Extruder, but those cause more issues than they are worth on occasion, when retracting the filament.
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Sep 16, 2012 04:22
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I'm selling 3D printed plugs over in SA-mart right now if anyone is interested: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3507170 Also, there's a new 3D printer coming soon called the PandaBot. Sturdy, metal frame, and I'm told that it will only be $800 fully-assembled: 
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Sep 16, 2012 04:57
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Obsurveyor posted:You would have a nice printer and everything but filament. You do need some stuff to complete the J-Head nozzle. Read the page on it but you need: a small 40mm fan for cooling(Digikey, ebay, scavenge video card/computer stuff), some PTFE insulation for the thermistor wires(McMaster), some kapton tape to secure the thermistor(McMaster) and some high-temp wire for the resistor(McMaster). You'll also need a stepper for the extruder. You can get one from Ultimachine. I can get you part numbers from McMaster if you need them. You'll also need some wire for wiring the steppers, limit switches and thermistor to RAMPS. Is the stepper the nema 17? What voltage psu is required? Could you link or post an image of the extruder? I'm in the UK & there is quite a range of bits coming up on eBay, some with bolts & bearings, some without. I'll take part numbers of you don't mind.
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Sep 16, 2012 09:50
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