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Pureauthor posted:When in the timeline does MGR take place, anyway? 4 years after 4 I think. Speaking of numbers! So some parallels between DMC and MGS1-4, 1 is liked, 2 is hushedly ignored, 3 is everyone's favorite, 4 is good but it has some terrible problem(cutscenes/backtracking) Then you have the non-canon spinoff/reboot where people love Jack and hate Dante. They both have the end boss being some middle-aged man with a hand in politics. They both have style and neat weapons, except Raiden does the megaman schtick properly even though there is precedent in DMC and not in MGS. Anything else?
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Apr 8, 2014 19:54
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Rising also very deliberately makes no references at all to Snake's fate at the end of 4, neither confirming nor denying his death.
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Apr 8, 2014 19:57
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Other than the DLC wooden sword that's possessed by his ghost.
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Apr 8, 2014 19:59
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Kurieg posted:Other than the DLC wooden sword that's possessed by his ghost. That's only in the japanese version iirc.
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Apr 8, 2014 20:58
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Gensuki posted:4 years after 4 I think. I don't think 2 is 'hushedly ignored' by anyone anymore. People have gotten over Kojima messing with them by now and just take the game for what it is. It's a lot of people's favorite game in the series. If there's any game analogous to DMC2, it's Portable Ops, which (much like DMC2) has basically been retconned by everyone including Kojima.
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Apr 8, 2014 21:19
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If there's any MGS game that's really ignored it's probably Ghost Babel or Ac!d.
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Apr 8, 2014 21:36
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As one of the commentators on this LP, I approve of the MGS talk. ...it beats the hell out of talking about this lovely game.
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Apr 8, 2014 21:44
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notZaar posted:If there's any MGS game that's really ignored it's probably Ghost Babel or Ac!d. Nope, it's "Snake's Revenge". The kind of sequel to the original "Metal Gear".
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Apr 8, 2014 21:49
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deadicons posted:Nope, it's "Snake's Revenge". The kind of sequel to the original "Metal Gear". As I recall, even Kojima ignores that one because it was made against his wishes.
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Apr 8, 2014 22:51
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Since we're getting into kind of a derail: One of the things that I find most interesting to compare DmC to two other games that were made by Japanese Publishers to appeal to western audiences: Asura's Warth from Capcom and Binary Domain from Sega. There are two big differences between the two games and DmC. Binary Domain and Asura's Wrath are made by Japanese developers, Binary Domain was made by the team that made the Yakuza games and Asura's Wrath was made by CyberConnect2 of .Hack fame. The other thing is that while they do take inspiration from the two "of War" franchise they are still very much their own thing. Also I feel that they are both Objectively better than DmC. That actually leads me to ask some questions? Did Capcom just assume that a western developer would inherently be able to make a game that could appeal to western audiences? Did Ninja Theory not have as much Creative Control over their game as CyberConnect2 did with theirs? Would DmC have been better received if it was it's own original IP? Would a Japanese Developer have made a better game? Is it entirely fair to heap the blame of all of DmC's problems onto Ninja Theory?
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Apr 9, 2014 02:48
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David D. Davidson posted:Did Capcom just assume that a western developer would inherently be able to make a game that could appeal to western audiences? Did Ninja Theory not have as much Creative Control over their game as CyberConnect2 did with theirs? Would DmC have been better received if it was it's own original IP? Would a Japanese Developer have made a better game? Is it entirely fair to heap the blame of all of DmC's problems onto Ninja Theory? In all likelihood, yes. Capcom has struggled to read their audience for many years now. This I have no idea about. I would like to say they had a great deal of control initially and from what little we know now it was slowly revoked over time. A massive yes. At least that way the game wouldn't have had that horrid marketing. No way to know this but I'm going to assume no. Bad devs exist worldwide. I'd say yes. Not all the blame, but a good deal of it does lay at their feet.
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Apr 9, 2014 02:58
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It's not even like western devs cant make good on Japanese IPs. Just look at Metroid Prime. Capcom is just boneheaded. They chose one of the least qualified studios they could have possibly chosen for this game. Ninja Theory has from that start been renown for impressive art and shallow gameplay, completely the opposite of everything important to DMC. FedEx Mercury fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Apr 9, 2014 |
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Apr 9, 2014 03:34
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David D. Davidson posted:Since we're getting into kind of a derail: DmC would be better if it had: 1. The ability to punch people during cutscenes 2. French robots
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Apr 9, 2014 04:21
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oh yes oh god yes form the head FORM THE HEAD unghhhh...
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Wild Knight posted:
The other problem is that MGR came out literally a month later. DMC had to blow away the audience if it wanted to stand a chance and just alienating their original audience didn't help at all. Not to mention that there had been better stylish brawlers released years earlier.
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Apr 9, 2014 04:47
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Testekill posted:The other problem is that MGR came out literally a month later. DMC had to blow away the audience if it wanted to stand a chance and just alienating their original audience didn't help at all. Not to mention that there had been better stylish brawlers released years earlier. The cool thing about fans though, is that you can usually release a bad game and they'll still like you if you tried (see sonic from 2003-2006) and -and this is key- don't openly insult them. Most of the complaints I hear about this game are rooted in the developers being lovely to their customers. So the fans don't want it because of the dev. shenanigans, and no one else wants it because parrying Metal Gear Ray is cooler than swinging a vomiting baby thing around.
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Apr 9, 2014 04:56
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I said it before but Capcom made exactly the wrong choice of IP for Ninja Theory. What they should have done was given them Onimusha. That is a franchise that plays entirely to their strengths (movie-inspired gameplay), where they could reinvent it and nobody would get TOO angry, and where they've already proven themselves of being moderately competent if not overwhelming good. It might have still been lovely but Ninja Theory's Onimusha is a much easier game to understand than Ninja Theory's Devil May Cry.
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Apr 9, 2014 05:05
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GrandHound posted:In all likelihood, yes. Capcom has struggled to read their audience for many years now. To put this in perspective. Square Enix recently released a press release to the effect of, "Apparently western gamers love JRPGs, why did no one tell us this?" Companies like Nintendo and Sony have a much more entrenched presence in the US (and thus a better idea of how Western game development work, and what western gamers want) because they're hardware producers, so they need much more infrastructure stateside to keep their businesses functioning. Capcom of America is kind of, just, there. The guys are definitely earnest about it and love the games but they don't really have any power or say in what the big C does back in Japan.
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Apr 9, 2014 08:10
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Kurieg posted:Capcom of America is kind of, just, there. The guys are definitely earnest about it and love the games but they don't really have any power or say in what the big C does back in Japan. I can confirm that Capcom USA were, at some point at least, pretty cool guys. Their former Vice President, Christian Svensson (who unfortunately quit last year) was basically the reason AA: Dual Destinies got released in the west, and had to seriously play up projected sales to get Capcom Japan to even consider localizing it.
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Apr 9, 2014 08:32
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Kurieg posted:To put this in perspective. Square Enix recently released a press release to the effect of, "Apparently western gamers love JRPGs, why did no one tell us this?" Companies like Nintendo and Sony have a much more entrenched presence in the US (and thus a better idea of how Western game development work, and what western gamers want) because they're hardware producers, so they need much more infrastructure stateside to keep their businesses functioning. Capcom of America is kind of, just, there. The guys are definitely earnest about it and love the games but they don't really have any power or say in what the big C does back in Japan. GilliamYaeger posted:I can confirm that Capcom USA were, at some point at least, pretty cool guys. Their former Vice President, Christian Svensson (who unfortunately quit last year) was basically the reason AA: Dual Destinies got released in the west, and had to seriously play up projected sales to get Capcom Japan to even consider localizing it. Yeah, I'm in full agreement with both of you. Honestly, the Square Enix statement comes off as more of an attempt to save face after, for years, fans have been shouting at them to just make a classic JRPG game again. I wish I could say that Western developers were better in touch with the Eastern market than the Eastern market is with the Western one, but it's just as bad (granted the Japanese haven't exactly made it easy for them either with their attitude regarding Western games in general). Though, to be fair to other foreign game developers, we are discussing the biggest two offenders when it comes to being out of touch with their foreign fans. It may not be as severe for other companies. It does, unfortunately, seem to be an industry wide trend however.
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Apr 9, 2014 09:12
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GrandHound posted:Yeah, I'm in full agreement with both of you. Honestly, the Square Enix statement comes off as more of an attempt to save face after, for years, fans have been shouting at them to just make a classic JRPG game again. I wish I could say that Western developers were better in touch with the Eastern market than the Eastern market is with the Western one, but it's just as bad (granted the Japanese haven't exactly made it easy for them either with their attitude regarding Western games in general). Though, to be fair to other foreign game developers, we are discussing the biggest two offenders when it comes to being out of touch with their foreign fans. It may not be as severe for other companies. It does, unfortunately, seem to be an industry wide trend however. It's my understanding that the God of War series sold decently in Japan. And the Retro Studios Donkey Kong games sold very well in Japan. I think the difference is that most western studios won't go out of their way to tailor a game to "eastern tastes" the way Japanese game devs sometimes do. I also think that Capcom has made some game development decisions out of a desire to punish Inafune, which has hurt their reputation with western gamers. I remember that Capcom Unity got death threats after Rockman Dash 3 got cancelled. When they're basically PR reps and can't actually do much other than say "The american fans would really like this game, guys."
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Apr 9, 2014 19:27
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Kurieg posted:Inafune And that man is a on a vengeful crusade with Soul Sacrifice, Mighty no.9 and Azure Striker Gunvolt beating Capcom at their own game.
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Apr 9, 2014 20:01
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WaltherFeng posted:And that man is a on a vengeful crusade with Soul Sacrifice, Mighty no.9 and Azure Striker Gunvolt beating Capcom at their own game. He's also the guy responsible for this game so... I mean I've got MN9 preordered but Inafune isn't a perfect genius. He's the guy who arranged for a lot of DmC to happen and even after he left Capcom he gave us Yaiba: Ninja Gaiden Z which is like DmC but worse in every way. Also MML3 got cancelled because it was going to sell terribly and the only reason it was getting made is because Inafune was pushing for it as a vanity/personal project. This isn't even hyperbole. Everyone involved admittedly MML3 wouldn't sell well but Inafune was pushing very hard for it to get made anyway. When he left there was nobody encouraging a low-sales game on a system that (at the time) was floundering miserably. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Apr 9, 2014 |
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Apr 9, 2014 20:05
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Kurieg posted:I also think that Capcom has made some game development decisions out of a desire to punish Inafune, which has hurt their reputation with western gamers. I remember that Capcom Unity got death threats after Rockman Dash 3 got cancelled. When they're basically PR reps and can't actually do much other than say "The american fans would really like this game, guys." Speaking as a diehard Mega Man Legends fan, the reason that game got cancelled (or based on what they said, never actually greenlit) was that it was almost certainly going to lose them money.
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Apr 9, 2014 20:06
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IronSaber posted:DmC would be better if it had: 
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Apr 9, 2014 20:27
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This is excellent. [e]: Also, this for anyone who wants to read that oft mentioned terrible comic. Chronicles of Vergil Part 1 Chronicles of Vergil Part 2 Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at 21:34 on Apr 9, 2014 |
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Apr 9, 2014 20:55
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Man wouldn't this game be better if it were: Asura's Wrath ?
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Apr 9, 2014 21:06
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I like you. 
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Apr 9, 2014 21:09
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ImpAtom posted:He's also the guy responsible for this game so... Kind of. If i recall correctly, he basically just urged Capcom to get a western developer to look at a few of their big series to try and get a new perspective on it. It wasn't necessarily a horrible idea, it's just that the dev team chosen by Capcom was a... questionable decision. Unless he was directly responsible for the selection of Ninja Theory. If that's the case then he is definitely directly responsible.
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Apr 9, 2014 23:10
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GrandHound posted:Kind of. If i recall correctly, he basically just urged Capcom to get a western developer to look at a few of their big series to try and get a new perspective on it. It wasn't necessarily a horrible idea, it's just that the dev team chosen by Capcom was a... questionable decision. Unless he was directly responsible for the selection of Ninja Theory. If that's the case then he is definitely directly responsible. No, he was there from the start. Ninja Theory talked about him making recommendations and such. Supposedly (according to NT) he was the guy who recommended they change Dante more from their original pitch which was closer to the original Dante. Inafune was hinting at DmC's reboot before it was even announced. Inafune was talking about the game having a 'western touch' was early as 2010. To his credit he also walked back the "shirtless with suspenders" design that Ninja Theory came up with. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Apr 9, 2014 |
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Apr 9, 2014 23:17
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GrandHound posted:Kind of. If i recall correctly, he basically just urged Capcom to get a western developer to look at a few of their big series to try and get a new perspective on it. It wasn't necessarily a horrible idea, it's just that the dev team chosen by Capcom was a... questionable decision. Unless he was directly responsible for the selection of Ninja Theory. If that's the case then he is definitely directly responsible. I'm not sure if he made those decisions or not, but he was also only in charge of overseas development for a grand total of 6 months before he quit the company. I'm not sure what decisions were made during those 6 months but he obviously wasn't happy with them considering the interviews he gave in the months before his tenure let out. ImpAtom posted:No, he was there from the start. Ninja Theory talked about him making recommendations and such. Supposedly (according to NT) he was the guy who recommended they change Dante more from their original pitch which was closer to the original Dante. Inafune was hinting at DmC's reboot before it was even announced. Inafune was talking about the game having a 'western touch' was early as 2010. The guy loves western game devs and probably was all for the 'Donte' design as it reflects a more western aesthetic, but he probably wouldn't have been nearly as antagonistic as NT was towards fans of the classic Dante (I hope). I'm pretty sure all the blame for the plot and the SSStyle system can get piled squarely on NT, though.
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Apr 9, 2014 23:30
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Kurieg posted:The guy loves western game devs and probably was all for the 'Donte' design as it reflects a more western aesthetic, but he probably wouldn't have been nearly as antagonistic as NT was towards fans of the classic Dante (I hope). They were literally told to "make us angry and we'll walk it back from there." They absolutely were going full antagonistic or as far as they could. I mean I'm not defending NT because they hosed up their PR all the time, but if you believe what they said, they intended to do a fairly conservative redesign and were told specifically to go further and further away. Inafune himself recommended they try to make it look like a contemporary movie and NT was unambiguously told to go extreme on their redesign. And one of Comcept's first-ever collaborations and Inafune's production credits after he left Capcom was Yaiba: Ninja Gaiden Z. Beck from MN9 even appears in Yaiba. It is, as I said, basically the DmC of Ninja Gaiden but worse than DmC in every way. You can't even say he wasn't involve with it because he was vocal about his development history with it. Inafune does support Western developers but everything he's said about it seems to be more of a case of "Inafune was very pro-West as a concept." He is (again, if you believe Capcom) the driving force between both DmC and Lost Planet 3's developer selection. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on bad blood with Capcom there but that is the story they're putting out and in the case of Lost Planet 3 it is pretty much unarguably true. Spark Unlimited, the guys responsible for Lost Planet 3, were specifically brought onto Yaiba: Ninja Gaiden Z by Inafune due to their past relationship. (He specifically said it was because he knew the management and despite their previous poor work he was convinced the management had the right ideas and that the lower staff were constantly coming and leaving so that poor work wasn't an indication of future quality.) ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 23:43 on Apr 9, 2014 |
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Apr 9, 2014 23:32
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The very first videogame thing Inafune did after making a big stink about how Capcom/Japanese Games Are Bad and making his own company was assisting with/personally appearing in this loving game. After that he made a kickstarter so he could make a seems a little two faced, s'all I'm saying
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Apr 9, 2014 23:43
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I don't think he really has a whole lot to do with Gunvolt from a creative standpoint. That seems like more of an IntiCreates thing, and anything they do that even looks remotely like Mega Man Zero is fine with me.
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Apr 9, 2014 23:52
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darealkooky posted:The very first videogame thing Inafune did after making a big stink about how Capcom/Japanese Games Are Bad and making his own company was assisting with/personally appearing in this loving game. After that he made a kickstarter so he could make a 1) You missed out Sweet Fuse: At Your Side for the PSP. 2) I love Gunstar Heroes as much as the next person but that game is pretty much par for the course for anime cliches.
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Apr 10, 2014 00:14
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Update! Episode 19 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6wEzKUCNbQ I still maintain that this game is pretty fun to play even if it may lack depth in its systems. The story is terrible though.
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Apr 16, 2014 17:55
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I love how chill Vergil is about the whole thing. "What, you didn't know I'm an rear end in a top hat?" edit: Never before noticed that Vergil's coat is missing half of the bottom part. Western design at its finest. edit2: With regards to the writing talk, the difference is that Bulletstorm is aware of it being a parody. It never tries to be "cool" and pretty openly states that the main character isn't exactly intelligent or competent. anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Apr 16, 2014 |
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Apr 16, 2014 18:16
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So now that we've gotten to this point of the game, we can finally watch the definitive version of the Virgil fight. 
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Apr 16, 2014 18:31
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The big climax fight against Mundus and it might as well be a Succubus reskin. Man. Also, Vergil, don't you think it might have been a good idea to run your grand plan with your brother (since apparently you had NO IDEA he would end up against it) before killing Mundus? And lastly, the Vergil fight here has the potential to be a decent fight if it weren't for those mini cutscenes that constantly interrupt everything. DMC3 had Vergil going through phases too but they didn't need to cut the flow of the fight to change it. On the bright side, at least it's not as awful as DMC4's final boss.
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Apr 16, 2014 18:35
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Pureauthor posted:On the bright side, at least it's not as awful as DMC4's final boss. At least DMC4's final boss didn't bring in any utterly asinine pseudopolitical/pseudophilosophical ramblings or miserable 5-second loops of indistinct guitar riffs. Honestly, holy gently caress that was bad. The writing was putrid, the politics were relentlessly ugly and see-sawed between indistinct pretentious hipster-esque "fight the man" bullshit and juvenile ramblings about freedom and vague, mumblecore ideals, the art style was ugly, the engine was bad, the protaganists were less likable than the villains, the climaxes (both of them) of the entire loving game were about as grand as a fart (seriously, it took me a second to realize Mundus was even dead.), the music had a few decent tracks amidst a sea of bad screamo, dubstep, and vague guitar riffs that felt like they looped every few seconds, the animation was terrible (seriously what the gently caress was wrong with Virgil's face in those curscenes), and the art style feels like little more than a vague pastiche of Devil May Cry sloppily traced over the Darksiders team's artbooks. I mean...gently caress this game just made me mad by the end. Spiritus Nox fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Apr 16, 2014 |
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Apr 16, 2014 18:46
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Actually seeing this boss fight in motion made me realize how awkwardly Vergil is animated, especially when he's doing his dashing attacks or his anime sword wave things. DMC3's Vergil fights, despite the game being a good 8 years older, felt a lot more smooth.
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