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I'm rooting for Chuck to finally to get that obnoxious Jimmy disbarred and sent off to the used car sales lot where he belongs - and steal Kim in the process. Chuck is the good guy. 
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Apr 27, 2016 00:39
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Last Chance posted:OK, bear with me though: so you don't know anything about psychology and don't care, but are 110% sure that chuck is certifiably capital-C Crazy. wow i sure hope you don't vote
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Apr 27, 2016 01:48
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I'm not entirely without sympathy for him. He is still a person and very obviously suffering from mental illness. It's everything else about him that makes him repugnant to me.
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Apr 27, 2016 01:48
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Sinteres posted:Having a specific mental illness doesn't mean that someone is necessarily incapable of logic or reasoning, obviously depending on what the mental illness is. I've already said I'm fine with them handwaving it away because it's fiction and they can define his illness however they want, but he doesn't exhibit the behaviors of someone who's actually had a break with reality. He's not insane. He's suffering from some sort of psychosomatic disorder. He's experiencing physical symptoms even though they're psychological. Most people with psychosomatic disorders struggle for years before accepting that their physical ailments are psychological.
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Apr 27, 2016 01:55
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i think i need to add another law to my List of Goon Laws. law #1 has always been that goons hate garrison keillor because he gets paid huge sums of money to old-media shitpost, of course. but i think law #2 has to be that goons have such ignorance and bigotry toward people with mental illness because they refuse to admit their didactic, black-and-white thinking about the world could possibly be anything but Proper and Correct
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Apr 27, 2016 02:00
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This is because most goons are mentally ill but refuse to admit/are in denial about it
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Apr 27, 2016 02:02
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Lutha Mahtin posted:so you don't know anything about psychology and don't care, but are 110% sure that chuck is certifiably capital-C Crazy. wow i sure hope you don't vote But the poster above puts it way better than I ever could: ghostwritingduck posted:He's not insane. He's suffering from some sort of psychosomatic disorder. He's experiencing physical symptoms even though they're psychological. Most people with psychosomatic disorders struggle for years before accepting that their physical ailments are psychological.
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Apr 27, 2016 02:04
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Lutha Mahtin posted:i think i need to add another law to my List of Goon Laws. law #1 has always been that goons hate garrison keillor because he gets paid huge sums of money to old-media shitpost, of course. but i think law #2 has to be that goons have such ignorance and bigotry toward people with mental illness because they refuse to admit their didactic, black-and-white thinking about the world could possibly be anything but Proper and Correct I like Garrison Keillor, do I have to post a ban me?
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Apr 27, 2016 06:59
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Hey just throwing this out there but Chuck doesn't have to show someone the whole tap. He could just anonymously send Mesa Verde the part "I did it all for Kim, I forge the documents, etc" and not have his voice in it at all. Hell have a montage of Chuck editing the tape and then sending it, shot in the same way Jimmy edited the files and replaced them. Nude fucked around with this message at 07:22 on Apr 27, 2016 |
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Apr 27, 2016 07:15
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Sinteres posted:Having a specific mental illness doesn't mean that someone is necessarily incapable of logic or reasoning, obviously depending on what the mental illness is. I've already said I'm fine with them handwaving it away because it's fiction and they can define his illness however they want, but he doesn't exhibit the behaviors of someone who's actually had a break with reality. ghostwritingduck posted:He's not insane. He's suffering from some sort of psychosomatic disorder. He's experiencing physical symptoms even though they're psychological. Most people with psychosomatic disorders struggle for years before accepting that their physical ailments are psychological.
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Apr 27, 2016 07:46
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Lutha Mahtin posted:i think i need to add another law to my List of Goon Laws. law #1 has always been that goons hate garrison keillor because he gets paid huge sums of money to old-media shitpost, of course. but i think law #2 has to be that goons have such ignorance and bigotry toward people with mental illness because they refuse to admit their didactic, black-and-white thinking about the world could possibly be anything but Proper and Correct 
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Apr 27, 2016 09:43
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I wonder what Chuck makes of the fact that there isn't any legal recognition of "electrosensitivity", at least in the US. It doesn't seem like he believes that there's a conspiracy against those who claim to suffer from it or anything like that, so how does he rationalise it being dismissed wholesale by the legal system (and medical science)? Or does he simply not care because, two unpleasant hospital visits and a handful of excruciating trips outside the house aside, he lives in a bubble where everyone bends over backwards to accommodate his delusion?
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Apr 27, 2016 09:53
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Being a lawyer and thinking the law actually matters should be enough to have Chuck committed.
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Apr 27, 2016 10:08
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Chuck has an anxiety disorder
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Apr 27, 2016 11:59
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sinking belle posted:I wonder what Chuck makes of the fact that there isn't any legal recognition of "electrosensitivity", at least in the US. It doesn't seem like he believes that there's a conspiracy against those who claim to suffer from it or anything like that, so how does he rationalise it being dismissed wholesale by the legal system (and medical science)? Or does he simply not care because, two unpleasant hospital visits and a handful of excruciating trips outside the house aside, he lives in a bubble where everyone bends over backwards to accommodate his delusion? For mental illnesses you normally seek out things to justify it not the other way around. Someone would have to tell Chuck that and he'll probably come up with an answer of well there is no legal recognition for x and that still exists! Or, like you said, rant about how there should be and its an obvious overlook that he doesn't know how anyone could miss it. I took a couple of psych classes so while I'm not a expert in this I have seen videos of a lot of people with mental illness, and Chuck is a reasonable depiction to be honest. Also it's fully possible for someone to know what they believe could be fake, but they will still depend on it to cope with/repress an emotion or thought. Not saying that's what Chuck is doing, just a fun fact. Nude fucked around with this message at 15:22 on Apr 27, 2016 |
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Apr 27, 2016 14:00
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It's almost as if the concept of perspective all but precludes applying it to yourself. Chuck is not alone in this, since the flip side of the coin is... Dismissing someone suffering from mental illness as "crazy" because "I can, I'm not crazy, not like that person". I don't know how things are in other countries, but there's a lot of deep-seated misunderstanding of "the crazy" in America, and fear for the same reason. Personally, I speculate everyone has their mental problems, if not illnesses, but most refuse to see them. A lot of people also look for any excuse to dismiss other people's experiences/opinions/input. Chuck is a piece of poo poo on a very different level from his mental problems, though they intersect. He completely disrespects the way Jimmy has been there for him, and chooses his allegiance to the law over his family. All because feels betrayed that he sent Jimmy to law school, yet Jimmy didn't become the person Chuck wanted him to. JainDoh fucked around with this message at 15:22 on Apr 27, 2016 |
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Apr 27, 2016 15:18
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It's worth mentioning that even people who know what their mental issues are usually can't just totally brush it aside the second they do so. Because it still feels real to them even if they're told and can understand that what they're experiencing is not accurate to reality. Now, of course he is in denial about it, but even if he wasn't it wouldn't mean he'd immediately be all better.
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Apr 27, 2016 15:35
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Beeez posted:It's worth mentioning that even people who know what their mental issues are usually can't just totally brush it aside the second they do so. Because it still feels real to them even if they're told and can understand that what they're experiencing is not accurate to reality. Now, of course he is in denial about it, but even if he wasn't it wouldn't mean he'd immediately be all better. That's more what I was trying to get at. Someone who's mentally ill is perfectly capable of having an intellectual understanding of their illness without actually being cured. Agoraphobes generally know on an intellectual level that leaving the house and being in public isn't objectively an extreme danger, but if they have panic attacks when they go in public it still feels very dangerous despite that knowledge. Chuck's been in numerous situations where someone's had an opportunity to go "see, I had this electronic device the whole time and you didn't feel anything," like what the doctor showed Jimmy in the first season, so I feel like he'd have to have some understanding of that by now, even if it functionally doesn't make daily life any easier for him. Presumably he actually would have constructed a Faraday cage a long time ago if he 100% believed what he says though, so maybe there's already some nuance there.
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Apr 27, 2016 15:45
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Yeah, though I think the way he talks to the doctors in the most recent episode suggests he still is unwilling to acknowledge it's purely a psychological thing. The sad thing is, if he were able to admit it to himself he could probably find a therapist who would help him without being put in a mental hospital as he fears Jimmy will do.
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Apr 27, 2016 15:50
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Chuck is still in very strong denial. There may be some level on which he actually sees these facts but he seems to be actively repressing them. It helps that he sees himself as a very special snowflake in a variety of contexts so even confronted with medical facts I could see him believing that he's the only person on the planet with an allergy to electricity if need be and everybody else is crazy but not him. He just can't accept that he has psychological issues. He can accept that he has a physical illness but his perceived intellectual superiority can't be 'tarnished' by a mental problem. His brain is a temple and he will do everything in his power to bend the perception of reality in order to keep that status quo. He's not the first very intelligent and very logical person with mental issues to do that either. It happens all the time in real life. This is also why he can't allow Jimmy to best him btw. He'll go to the same extremes in trying to prove that Jimmy is inferior to him intelectually as he goes in trying to deny that he has mental issues.
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Apr 27, 2016 16:04
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Palpek posted:Chuck is still in very strong denial. There may be some level on which he actually sees these facts but he seems to be actively repressing them. It helps that he sees himself as a very special snowflake in a variety of contexts so even confronted with medical facts I could see him believing that he's the only person on the planet with an allergy to electricity if need be and everybody else is crazy but not him. He just can't accept that he has psychological issues. He can accept that he has a physical illness but his perceived intellectual superiority can't be 'tarnished' by a mental problem. His brain is a temple and he will do everything in his power to bend the perception of reality in order to keep that status quo. He's not the first very intelligent and very logical person with mental issues to do that either. It happens all the time in real life.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kD-AXgYO0lo
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Apr 27, 2016 17:08
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You're wrong, just be wrong.
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Apr 27, 2016 17:11
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Jon Do posted:All because feels betrayed that he sent Jimmy to law school, yet Jimmy didn't become the person Chuck wanted him to. Chuck never sent Jimmy to Law School. Jimmy only informed Chuck once he passed the bar. Chuck dismissed Jimmy's schooling as cutting corners cause he did not go to a prestigious school. Chuck ignores the fact that Jimmy passed the bar, and as far as we know now, he did not cheat on the test. This would be the same Bar exam Chuck took to become a lawyer in New Mexico.
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Apr 27, 2016 17:44
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wins.
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PassTheRemote posted:Chuck never sent Jimmy to Law School. Jimmy only informed Chuck once he passed the bar. Chuck dismissed Jimmy's schooling as cutting corners cause he did not go to a prestigious school. Chuck ignores the fact that Jimmy passed the bar, and as far as we know now, he did not cheat on the test. This would be the same Bar exam Chuck took to become a lawyer in New Mexico.
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Apr 27, 2016 17:53
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Jimmy went to one of those schools where you just learn to take an exam, without really understanding the subject matter. Not like Chuck, who had the very essence of the law infused in him. Complete lol at the idea that someone could pass the BAR in any state "without really understanding the subject matter". Edit: vvvvv that did cross my mind, but for all intents and purposes Frank Abagnale Jr. is more like a trickster god than a human being. The stuff in his memoirs is even crazier than what made it into the movie. Nicodemus Dumps fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Apr 27, 2016 |
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Apr 27, 2016 17:56
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popewiles posted:Complete lol at the idea that someone could pass the BAR in any state "without really understanding the subject matter". It worked in Catch me if you Can  (but yeah, I agree)
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Apr 27, 2016 18:00
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Jimmy went to one of those schools where you just learn to take an exam, without really understanding the subject matter. Not like Chuck, who had the very essence of the law infused in him. Well, in college, he killed the Roman Goddess of Law and Justice, whose statues mark the entrances of many courtrooms. He then ate her heart and gained her powers. However, his sensitivity to EM radiation is due to him not blinding himself, as the essence of Law and Justice will overwhelm people trying to sense it and trying to see at the same time.
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Apr 27, 2016 18:01
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Also remember what Chuck's reaction in court was when it came out that there is a mistake in the address? His first reaction was to tell his client that he's wrong - he needed some time to acknowledge that the bank's owner would know better than him where his bank is located, Chuck just couldn't be wrong. Now how could he have anxiety when he knows for a fact that he has an allergy to electricity?
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Apr 27, 2016 18:14
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popewiles posted:Complete lol at the idea that someone could pass the BAR in any state "without really understanding the subject matter".
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Apr 27, 2016 18:18
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Jimmy is Frank Abagnale Jr.'s son. That's why he and Chuck are so different. I concur. Do you concur?
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Apr 27, 2016 18:38
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Jimmy went to one of those schools where you just learn to take an exam, without really understanding the subject matter. Not like Chuck, who had the very essence of the law infused in him. In New Mexico, if you want to sit for bar exam you have to have attended a school that is ABA approved. So the fact that he went to a lovely school doesn't matter legally. http://nmexam.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/NMRA2016_Ruleset15_unannotated.pdf
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Apr 27, 2016 19:21
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Cimber posted:In New Mexico, if you want to sit for bar exam you have to have attended a school that is ABA approved. So the fact that he went to a lovely school doesn't matter legally. It does matter to some people. 
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Apr 27, 2016 19:27
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My post might not have been a 100% serious examination of the requirements to become a lawyer in New Mexico, and rather what I'm thinking Chuck's view on the subject of proper schools is.
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Apr 27, 2016 19:36
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Better Call Saul: "I'm the worst brother ever!"
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Apr 27, 2016 20:43
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A Buttery Pastry posted:My post might not have been a 100% serious examination of the requirements to become a lawyer in New Mexico, and rather what I'm thinking Chuck's view on the subject of proper schools is. No doubt he'd be dubious at best about an online school. It's easy for me to see him placing a great deal of value on the more traditional Professor Kingsfield approach of turning a bunch of callow students with skulls full of mush into proper lawyers, even if the process is stressful enough to drive one to attempt suicide every now and then.
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Apr 27, 2016 20:51
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mods please stealthily change the thread name to Butter Call Saul at some point before season 3 starts
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Apr 27, 2016 22:20
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Rupert Buttermilk posted:Better Call Saul: "I'm the worst brother ever!"
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Apr 28, 2016 00:48
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:I said this last week! Everything about Better Call Saul has already been said. But since no one was listening, everything must be said again.
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Apr 28, 2016 04:06
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Sinteres posted:That's more what I was trying to get at. Someone who's mentally ill is perfectly capable of having an intellectual understanding of their illness without actually being cured. Agoraphobes generally know on an intellectual level that leaving the house and being in public isn't objectively an extreme danger, but if they have panic attacks when they go in public it still feels very dangerous despite that knowledge. Chuck's been in numerous situations where someone's had an opportunity to go "see, I had this electronic device the whole time and you didn't feel anything," like what the doctor showed Jimmy in the first season, so I feel like he'd have to have some understanding of that by now, even if it functionally doesn't make daily life any easier for him. Presumably he actually would have constructed a Faraday cage a long time ago if he 100% believed what he says though, so maybe there's already some nuance there.
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Apr 28, 2016 05:18
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sinking belle posted:I'm keen to see if he keeps his tinfoil office next season. Something tells me its effectiveness as a prop in ratfucking Jimmy was incidental and it's actually a genuine response to all the stress he's gone through lately. Either that or it was only ever a prop and he realises he actually likes it this way I'd be surprised. Chuck still needs somebody to visit and take care of him, and graduating from a tinfoil suit liner to a tinfoil house is a pretty good way of showing his law firm he's not in any position to be doing any work there. On top of that, it provides Jimmy with a lot more ammunition if he ever does decide to have Chuck committed. He's crazy, not stupid.
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Apr 28, 2016 15:14
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