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Seams posted:It was a good rant as was the confusion over Tom’s idea for the F4W championship I really liked Tom's original idea, of pitting the reigning "match of the week" against another top match each week 
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Dec 4, 2019 08:27
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Jerusalem posted:I really liked Tom's original idea, of pitting the reigning "match of the week" against another top match each week As long as there's an annual reset, sure, sounded good to me. I wonder if Bryan's latest round of equipment upgrades did some noise shaping and made the lisp pop more? I don't remember it being quite this bad a while ago.
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Dec 4, 2019 10:17
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I have literally never heard Vinnie so happy
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Dec 4, 2019 10:20
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jesus WEP posted:I have literally never heard Vinnie so happy I just started listening so I assume this is in reference to his fantasy football revenge. He's calling his shot about doing it again in the playoffs next week and it's going to be so great when he gets beat next week because that's how fantasy football works 
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Dec 4, 2019 12:51
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Rocky Romero is on Kinda Fun, it's a podcast about wrestling from the Last Podcast on the Left folks. It's a nice episode, Rocky talks about the dojo process a bit which is interesting. https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/the-last-podcast-network/kinda-fun
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Dec 4, 2019 17:13
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JT Smiley posted:The three of them have such great chemistry that its definitely going into my rotation, just a shame there's tons of points where they are extremely careful about their words. I love those guys so I've subscribed as well, but there's something gross about an official WWE podcast needing ads when they have a billion dollar company behind it.
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Dec 5, 2019 00:37
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Pacific Rim Podcast is always a good listen but absolutely please listen to the latest episode if only for the derail about blood-types, which is amazing. "EVIL's bloodtype is.... unknown."
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Dec 5, 2019 00:39
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Never agreed with Dave and Bryan more that their criticisms of AEW this week
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Dec 5, 2019 23:01
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mkay0 posted:Never agreed with Dave and Bryan more that their criticisms of AEW this week What were they
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Dec 5, 2019 23:25
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Spikegal posted:What were they They are running the risk of the referees becoming jokes like they largely are in New Japan because nobody ever gets DQed for getting involved in matches/interfering/using foreign objects etc. They specifically mentioned the Nyla/Leva match, where they made the point you could have kept all the stuff with Avalon and attacking Nyla with a book but just done it post-match when Nyla continued beating on Leva.
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Dec 5, 2019 23:42
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Nobody gives a gently caress about that kind of stuff so long as they’re sufficiently entertained.
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Dec 5, 2019 23:48
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Jerusalem posted:They are running the risk of the referees becoming jokes like they largely are in New Japan because nobody ever gets DQed for getting involved in matches/interfering/using foreign objects etc. They specifically mentioned the Nyla/Leva match, where they made the point you could have kept all the stuff with Avalon and attacking Nyla with a book but just done it post-match when Nyla continued beating on Leva. Yes, referees, the rodeo clowns of pro-wrestling, should never be considered jokes.
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Dec 5, 2019 23:55
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the thing that i hate about AEW refs is that Jimmy Havoc fuckin bites people in front of the ref and i guess biting is considered an illegal hold in AEW and they're given a 5 count instead of an immediate disqualification. but maybe i'm just not familiar with biting in wrestling, and this is how every fed treats it. Jimmy Havoc sucks
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Dec 5, 2019 23:55
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The whole point of the spot is a joke that Leva is a weakling who can only think of using a thin book as a weapon, which obviously doesn't work on Nyla and the ref doesn't care because it didn't do anything. You ruin the joke if the ref is like "nuh uh, ring the bell"  What a weird thing to get hung up on.
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Dec 5, 2019 23:56
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Yeah, their complaint is that the baby face jobbers didn't get DQ'd? Like, I kind of understand where they're getting at but they're hung up on the rules instead of paying attention to the story which is backwards thinking. The rules of wrestling only exist to help tell the story.
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Dec 6, 2019 00:00
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You think Dave Meltzer knows what a joke is?
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Dec 6, 2019 00:00
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The rules not mattering actually removes a lot of incredibly useful and important storytelling tools.
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Dec 6, 2019 00:01
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Drew McIntyre posted:the thing that i hate about AEW refs is that Jimmy Havoc fuckin bites people in front of the ref and i guess biting is considered an illegal hold in AEW and they're given a 5 count instead of an immediate disqualification. but maybe i'm just not familiar with biting in wrestling, and this is how every fed treats it. This is actually worth complaining about. Biting is too gross and weird to be something you do every single match and then don't get called out for it. Him and Moxley both need to save the biting for big matches.
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Dec 6, 2019 00:02
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WSAENOTSOCK posted:The rules not mattering actually removes a lot of incredibly useful and important storytelling tools. Legit, what are they? I can understand like basic rules enforcement so that heels can get heat by breaking them, but DQs just suck. New Japan fucken rules in long term storytelling and I don't care if AEW is like them.
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Dec 6, 2019 00:05
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New Japan also consistently gets great pops and stories when the refs do finally go "gently caress this poo poo" and enforce the rules as strict as they can. People lose it anytime a heel pushes red shoes to his breaking point and he calls for them to be ejected or for a DQ.
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Dec 6, 2019 00:08
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refs are basically cops. gently caress 'em
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Dec 6, 2019 00:08
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WSAENOTSOCK posted:The rules not mattering actually removes a lot of incredibly useful and important storytelling tools.
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Dec 6, 2019 00:09
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Yeah, not DQing people for regular wrestling stuff is going to make it amazing when Aubrey finally goes off and DQs Jericho for some bullshit.
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Dec 6, 2019 00:10
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Wezlar posted:Yeah, not DQing people for regular wrestling stuff is going to make it amazing when Aubrey finally goes off and DQs Jericho for some bullshit. I’d strongly argue the opposite
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Dec 6, 2019 00:13
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i remember excalibur weeks ago mentioning refs are more lenient to let things go since DQs would impact a wrestler's record and are saved for brazen rule violations, and it's been used in the past, like when PAC stopped moxley from using a barbed wire bat in their tag team match since he didn't want his record blemished.
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Dec 6, 2019 00:13
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Gumball Gumption posted:Yeah, their complaint is that the baby face jobbers didn't get DQ'd? No, that they could have literally done exactly the same stuff they did but had all the stuff that is against the rules happen after Nyla squashed Leva and it would have accomplished the same intended goal of Nyla no-selling it and beating the poo poo out of both of them, without the ref just standing there watching somebody get into the ring and attack one of the active competitors and doing nothing about it. It wasn't even specifically about Nyla/Leva, but how it's indicative of a larger issue in AEW where the refs are often just standing there doing nothing while things that are against the rules happen directly in front of them. They still raved about how much they liked the show, but they have a good point, as much as I love New Japan their referees (and I remember this being a thing in ROH's tag division back in the mid-2000s too) are often made to look completely irrelevant and I'd rather not see AEW's refs end up in the same position. AEW is even currently doing a storyline about how Jimmy Havoc gets fined 10k every time he uses his staple-gun, but apparently that's still not enough to get DQed in a match (unless I missed something on Dark?) and meanwhile other wrestlers are using foreign objects or using outside interference directly in front of the ref with impunity. The refs should have SOME authority, and it leads to some fun situations where wrestlers who want to cheat have to figure out how to get away with it without being caught out by the ref.
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Dec 6, 2019 00:14
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you can't let the rules get in the way of storytelling
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Dec 6, 2019 00:15
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Jerusalem posted:AEW is even currently doing a storyline about how Jimmy Havoc gets fined 10k every time he uses his staple-gun, but apparently that's still not enough to get DQed in a match (unless I missed something on Dark?) and meanwhile other wrestlers are using foreign objects or using outside interference directly in front of the ref with impunity. The refs should have SOME authority, and it leads to some fun situations where wrestlers who want to cheat have to figure out how to get away with it without being caught out by the ref. This is actually a thing they do sometimes in Formula 1. They'll fine teams and drivers in lieu of applying a penalty because no one wants to see the race ruined or the result retroactively changed.
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Dec 6, 2019 00:17
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It is a silly thing to get hung up on, because I'd have been mad if there *was* a DQ for that lame rear end book shot. I mostly did agree with their other issues though. Also, Drew McIntyre posted:Jimmy Havoc sucks
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Dec 6, 2019 00:18
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I think its a dumb complaint. Refs are basically established as having discretion about when the rule breaking is bad enough to warrant a DQ. Guys break the rules all the time and the ref warns them to stop. Most of the times when a ref does DQ a wrestler he does so after a period of the wrestler doing the thing he gets DQed for and the ref telling him to stop clearly not ending the match. Leva didn't get DQed because he rule breaking didn't actually do anything. And I personally like that. Its the same reason I thought all the complaints that the ref didn't end the main event on the first Dynamite when Moxley got involved were really weird and dumb. Why do we want the match ended early? Shouldn't we want matches to happen? Shouldn't we want them to come to natural conclusions with clear winners and losers? If the cheating/interference becomes enough to affect that then the ref should call a DQ but he/she has the power and discretion. The rules matter. But they matter with context. Because this is a narrative story, not an actual competition. And referees have a shitload of discretion in real sports too.
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Dec 6, 2019 00:18
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Jerusalem posted:No, that they could have literally done exactly the same stuff they did but had all the stuff that is against the rules happen after Nyla squashed Leva and it would have accomplished the same intended goal of Nyla no-selling it and beating the poo poo out of both of them, without the ref just standing there watching somebody get into the ring and attack one of the active competitors and doing nothing about it. It still doesn't work because Leva is dead after the match and shouldn't be able to jump up and grab a book. This whole thing is such dumb nerd-picking bullshit.
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Dec 6, 2019 00:21
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Yeah, I will need to listen to really get an opinion on what Dave's thinking. But my general feeling is that I only want to see a DQ if a DQ is the most interesting option. Otherwise I'd rather see a complete match that gets messy over a match that ends because the ref is perfectly enforcing the rules. It's like play off hockey where they will let small stuff go or do a delayed penalty instead of stopping the flow of the game.
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Dec 6, 2019 00:23
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Jerusalem posted:They are running the risk of the referees becoming jokes like they largely are in New Japan because nobody ever gets DQed for getting involved in matches/interfering/using foreign objects etc. Yeah, but sometimes you get https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMbQ3GBzc34&t=78s
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Dec 6, 2019 00:36
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FullMetalJackoff posted:Yeah, but sometimes you get dang i learned a lot from this clip. #1) kevin kelly sucks
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Dec 6, 2019 00:39
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Every time a wrestler breaks a rule everything should stop while we go to the video ref.
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Dec 6, 2019 00:41
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Where can I download the AEW rule book so that I know if I need to complain about a missed call or not.
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Dec 6, 2019 00:47
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Aye Doc posted:dang i learned a lot from this clip. #1) kevin kelly sucks You appear to have watched the wrong clip sir, as this is an incorrect thing to have learned.
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Dec 6, 2019 00:51
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Jerusalem posted:They are running the risk of the referees becoming jokes like they largely are in New Japan because nobody ever gets DQed for getting involved in matches/interfering/using foreign objects etc. They specifically mentioned the Nyla/Leva match, where they made the point you could have kept all the stuff with Avalon and attacking Nyla with a book but just done it post-match when Nyla continued beating on Leva. Thing is but, who gives a gently caress? Anyone who loves or hates njpw does so regardless of the refs.
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Dec 6, 2019 00:54
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Draxion posted:You think Dave Meltzer knows what a joke is? Just paste Dave's head over Spock's
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Dec 6, 2019 01:05
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Drew McIntyre posted:you can't let the rules get in the way of storytelling You can't tell a good story without establishing the rules first. Have the rules, then it becomes important when they are broken.
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Dec 6, 2019 01:44
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