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qsvui posted:i think he is well, i am an asian immigrant and two of the 3 nonfizzbuzzers i talked about were white americans so lol
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May 24, 2020 19:53
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A sample size of three is laughable, my dude. I'm not saying there are no compelling arguments to be made, but certainly yours isn't one.
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May 24, 2020 20:23
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for what it's worth, I don't consider international students coming here for a Master's degree to be in the same boat. There's a very clear reason they got the degree. Like I said before, I've mostly had bad luck with the "Directly B.S. > M.S. in CS" people, and I think it's because a lot of schools have been devaluing that degree. I wonder if a decent part of that, too, is just that the extra 2 years in some programs is long enough for them to be out of practice technically from the constant dev projects of undergrad.
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May 24, 2020 21:10
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there’s a difference between “anecdata + narrative “ and “here’s the A through Z of why every person with a master’s in CS are uniformly GARBAGE”
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May 25, 2020 04:27
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Just to further elaborate, here's a table (from 2011) about who gets masters degrees in cs. notice how 56.7% are non-resident aliens (Indian devs looking for h1bs). Only 25.7% white males.  This corresponds with my master's experience (80% of my class were non-resident aliens). here's a table about who gets BS degrees in cs. notice the 66% white males with only 7% non-resident aliens.  Now, I'm not saying that the MS candidates aren't going to seem weaker in the interviews - the guys with the BS degrees definitely feel like stronger interviews. But granted, I've never actually interviewed a white guy with a master's in CS. Is it my cultural bias showing? Who knows, but the demographic information is compelling enough for me that I wouldn't express an opinion about MS degrees out loud at work.
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May 25, 2020 15:51
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most h1bs i've seen w us masters in cs have bachelors in cs from their home country, weren't looking for a career change mostly a country change and were fine america isn't the only place with bachelors degrees...
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May 25, 2020 16:06
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bob dobbs is dead posted:most h1bs i've seen w us masters in cs have bachelors in cs from their home country, weren't looking for a career change mostly a country change and were fine it's true, but the way the system is set up in the US, people with master's degree (regardless of country) are in a separate, higher-priority lottery to get into the US. you would have to think that a lot of people who want to emigrate would know this and attempt to get these degrees. it isn't necessarily just going to be the ones who failed to get jobs, as the h1b is literally a lottery...
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May 25, 2020 16:21
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yeah, peeps w cs masters are fine, its the peeps who only have a cs masters, thats the signal
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May 25, 2020 16:25
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yall have degrees? drat
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May 25, 2020 16:32
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Buncha bias talk in here. Even if you think you see an anectodal pattern you should approach all your interviewees or coworkers with an open mind regardless of what kind of credentials they have. As well, a direct CS to MS will of course lack deep technical skills because they have been in book land forever, that doesn't mean they can't pick up what they need to on the job. Also your happiness will be better off in the long run by helping them develop rather than huffing about how they don't have skillset XYZ.
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May 25, 2020 19:37
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Hippie Hedgehog posted:Wow, talk about a cultural difference. Where I'm at (Scandinavia), nobody gets a bachelor's unless they are either 1. eager to get out of school and earn money, or 2. not up to the academic challenges of a master's. Employers will offer a higher starting salary for new graduates with a master's. It's the same in the Netherlands, not doing a MS after your BS is seen as quitting halfway. Getting into a PhD program without getting a MS first also also really uncommon here.
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May 25, 2020 20:08
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Votlook posted:It's the same in the Netherlands, not doing a MS after your BS is seen as quitting halfway. My understanding of US education is that if you're going for your PhD you'll generally get your MS as a side-effect, like, you maybe make a minor detour to pick it up because you might as well. Alternately, getting an MS is what you do as an "escape hatch" if you decide you don't actually want a PhD after all. But plenty of people stop after the bachelor's degree. Educations are expensive and the sooner you can start paying off your debt, the better. 
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May 25, 2020 20:57
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Twitter now has open postings for remote dev jobs. How much do you think they'll pay for people living outside SF?
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May 25, 2020 20:58
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Doghouse posted:Twitter now has open postings for remote dev jobs. How much do you think they'll pay for people living outside SF? no clue but you got me to go take a look and drat, Indeed finally seems to work for finding remote jobs now. When I looked up a specific technology + Remote in the past, 90% of the jobs would only have the word "remote" in descriptions as part of "this is NOT a remote opportunity"
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May 25, 2020 21:22
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The flood of jobs going remote is feeding my imposter syndrome like crazy. Gonna be way more competition out there for a while it feels like. Disconcerting as my company is not likely to survive the pandemic!
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May 25, 2020 21:52
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Doghouse posted:Twitter now has open postings for remote dev jobs. How much do you think they'll pay for people living outside SF? Its the norm to adjust pay for CoL, so almost certainly less. With how lovely places are with pay I think its a lot more likely to pull down the pay in high CoL than to bring low CoL pay up to the bay.
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May 25, 2020 22:16
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can you learn enough algo poo poo to pass the interview gauntlet just by doing ctci and hackerrank (or w/e) questions? i don't have any formal cs education, and the only algorithm and date structure stuff i know has come from casual exposure
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May 25, 2020 23:11
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redleader posted:can you learn enough algo poo poo to pass the interview gauntlet just by doing ctci and hackerrank (or w/e) questions? i don't have any formal cs education, and the only algorithm and date structure stuff i know has come from casual exposure yes, assuming you at least somewhat internalize how those solutions are working and it isn't just rote memorization the on-the-spot 45 minutes to a solution problems are the lovely irrelevant grind part
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May 25, 2020 23:15
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Anyone else use TripleByte? https://pastebin.com/RJdHJ408
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May 25, 2020 23:37
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Good Will Hrunting posted:Anyone else use TripleByte? Yep, I saw both emails today. RIP to my ~2 years-out-of-date TripleByte profile: you never scored.
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May 26, 2020 18:55
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I didn't use TripleByte, but a good friend of mine tried it out last year. I think he was a bit underwhelmed with the contacts he got from it. He had a couple of interviews with some kind of interesting sounding companies but they lowballed him super hard (like ~80k for a mid-level dev in a tech hub???) and I think it left a bad taste in his mouth. Anyway, he works as a Google SRE now as a result of that job search, no thanks to TripleByte.
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May 26, 2020 19:05
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I went through the initial screening with triplebyte then gave up when I realized they didn't do any remote placements at the time I just gave up on it.
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May 26, 2020 19:21
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Just the most recent example of my Swedish employer looking for an M.Sc. This is from and ad for a Product Owner-like role in a dev organization.quote:Minimum Qualification and Experience Requirement I mean, it's clear the job market has no shortage of people with that kind of training, if they ask that for such a non-analytical role. Of course, it's bullshit for multiple reasons, in this particular case. 1. The responsibilities of the role do not include anything requiring that kind of academia. 2. If you have 5 years of relevant experience, I don't give a poo poo what your degree is in. What will matter is a good reference from your previous position. Just saying, this is what our ads typically look like.
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May 27, 2020 07:48
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How long do undergrad and masters programs take in Sweden? My understanding is that in the UK (and I was thinking this is fairly similar throughout Europe, but I could be wrong), undergrad is closer to 3-4 years and masters is 1-2. In the US, it's going to be 4-5 for undergrad and typically 2 for masters. I feel like that makes a pretty big difference here. I know by the time I finished my CS undergrad in the US (five full years although I did co-op), I was pretty much sick of school and ready to do something different. If it had only taken three years and I could have added another degree in the same amount of time, it may have been more appealing.
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May 27, 2020 10:38
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zerofunk posted:How long do undergrad and masters programs take in Sweden? My understanding is that in the UK (and I was thinking this is fairly similar throughout Europe, but I could be wrong), undergrad is closer to 3-4 years and masters is 1-2. In the US, it's going to be 4-5 for undergrad and typically 2 for masters. I feel like that makes a pretty big difference here. I know by the time I finished my CS undergrad in the US (five full years although I did co-op), I was pretty much sick of school and ready to do something different. If it had only taken three years and I could have added another degree in the same amount of time, it may have been more appealing. We're fully aligned to the Bologna Process, more specifically it's 3 years for a B.Sc and 2 more for a M.Sc. Other countries might do 4+1, I guess? If a B.Sc takes 4 or 5 years, then I can certainly see why you'd be more qualified to start a career. Especially if you (or your parents) had been paying tuition for it.
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May 27, 2020 12:40
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US bachelor's degrees take longer than European ones because our secondary education system is much weaker. Colleges have to teach all the things that should've been done before, and that takes time.
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May 27, 2020 15:39
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I read a 4 year Masters, skipping the Bachelors. A minor gamble, if you fail the Masters you don’t walk away with a Bachelors. Benefits on immigration definitely worth it, even if not planned.
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May 27, 2020 17:55
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Hippie Hedgehog posted:If a B.Sc takes 4 or 5 years, then I can certainly see why you'd be more qualified to start a career. Especially if you (or your parents) had been paying tuition for it. Yes in the US a Bachelors degree typically takes 4 years, and it's not uncommon to take up to 5 years especially if you're doing a double degree or some extra certification. Most Masters programs are then another 2 years, assuming you have all the entry prerequisites prior to starting the program. If not, add even more time. There are some 4+1 programs out there but they are not super common, and you'd have to know you want to do it from early on in undergrad. A Masters grad that went straight from high school to undergrad to grad is going to be like 24-25 years old if everything went according to schedule. Guinness fucked around with this message at 18:20 on May 27, 2020 |
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May 27, 2020 18:17
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They way I've always seen it is a masters degree in CS is about equal to years experience in the field. So it takes you 2 years to get an MS, you start out at about the same spot as an industry newb after their first two years in the field. This was probably true back when I graduated in 2002. It's probably not as true now. Maybe now I'd only give a recipient of an MS degree 1 year exp, equivalent, depending?
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May 27, 2020 18:45
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It's not equivalent at all, though, you will learn wildly different things on the job and getting a masters.
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May 27, 2020 18:51
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Depends on the university a lot. When I was at uni, it was all academic CS theory, no software engineering, and no internships. (Which certainly was a shock in my first in-the-field year where I had to learn SDLC from basically scratch). But other unis had internship programs and/or better professors who prepared their students for the real world. To this day I'm still pleasantly surprised by the number of interns who don't need to be introduced to essential concepts like Git.
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May 27, 2020 19:53
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Yeah I'm grateful to my fellow student who brought CVS into our project work. It was a breeze learning Subversion on the job (and then Git) since I was already highly motivated by knowing just how essential version control is. Back in the 00's, there was no coursework about it at all.
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May 27, 2020 21:44
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Back in the '10s version control wasn't even mentioned until 3rd year (and even then it was SVN) even though we had a "here's how to do a software project" course. It's probably a lot to dump on a first year, but definitely would have come in handy soon after.
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May 28, 2020 15:56
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Hippie Hedgehog posted:We're fully aligned to the Bologna Process, more specifically it's 3 years for a B.Sc and 2 more for a M.Sc. Other countries might do 4+1, I guess? I don't know about Sweden but in the UK if you do a degree in X you only study X and nothing else, for three years straight. Thats not how it works in America.
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May 28, 2020 16:31
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Inacio posted:yall have degrees? drat In History 
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May 28, 2020 16:37
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I'm looking to change directions and get into the data analytics side of my field (pharmacy). I see there are a lot of 12~ week "bootcamp" courses, some free online, some incredibly expensive through accredited universities. Are any of these worth the time or money?
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May 30, 2020 00:16
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kazr posted:I'm looking to change directions and get into the data analytics side of my field (pharmacy). I see there are a lot of 12~ week "bootcamp" courses, some free online, some incredibly expensive through accredited universities. Are any of these worth the time or money? the ones that will only let you in if you dont need them i wish i was kidding
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May 30, 2020 00:20
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Similar question, if I'm currently a mobile software engineer and I want my title to say "machine learning engineer" - what's a good way to go about learning the right stuff to make that happen?
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May 30, 2020 00:24
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ketchup vs catsup posted:Similar question, if I'm currently a mobile software engineer and I want my title to say "machine learning engineer" - what's a good way to go about learning the right stuff to make that happen? https://www.deeplearningbook.org/ 
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May 30, 2020 01:48
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bob dobbs is dead posted:the ones that will only let you in if you dont need them Lol ok. Any recommendations on learning SQL, python and R?
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May 30, 2020 02:40
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