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HEY GAL posted:Europeans used to bathe a lot more in the Middle Ages. Then, for one thing, Protestants closed down the bathhouses. No more indulgences! Also, no baths. Gotta keep that titty on lock. Hey Hey Gal, tells us more about hygiene in Middle Ages 
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Dec 26, 2014 09:59
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HEY GAL posted:Dude, these are people who will offer to throw down with officers right there if they don't like the orders they're given, and a lot of times if you tell them to do something they expect tips for doing it. Not to mention that they consider digging beneath them. You try to get them to police the camp. So how exactly did we go from "I will FIGHT you if you try to press these orders on me!" in the early modern era to "Twenty lashes for looking at an officer funny!" by the Enlightenment? What changed to make discipline, even very harsh discipline, seem like a reasonable thing to a pack of unruly and freewheeling professionals?
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Dec 26, 2014 10:38
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HEY GAL posted:Europeans used to bathe a lot more in the Middle Ages. Then, for one thing, Protestants closed down the bathhouses. Bathhouses were the place if you're looking for sexy time, but not like a brothel. More like swinger clubs.
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Dec 26, 2014 10:52
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Tomn posted:So how exactly did we go from "I will FIGHT you if you try to press these orders on me!" in the early modern era to "Twenty lashes for looking at an officer funny!" by the Enlightenment? What changed to make discipline, even very harsh discipline, seem like a reasonable thing to a pack of unruly and freewheeling professionals? I might be asspulling this, but after the 30YW, people kind of saw that having marauding mercenaries burn everything left and right wasn't exactly the best, nor the most economical idea. And thus national armies were born, and I guess starter conscripting peasants, who had to be taught discipline. That and rise of muskets as the principle weapon of war kind of needed well ordered stacks of men who could stand shoulder to shoulder, fire, take fire, and so on. Not much use for unruly, freewheeling professionals. That's what the cavalry and rifles were for! Though I wonder: why is it always the dragoons who are the most evil branch of military in the media?
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Dec 26, 2014 10:58
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JcDent posted:Though I wonder: why is it always the dragoons who are the most evil branch of military in the media? Most likely because of their elite status they're the easiest to remember for the layperson? On the other hand, I've read science fiction novels where proud dragoons were killing evil natives left and right, so it may be dependent on the media in question. 
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Dec 26, 2014 11:08
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Libluini posted:Most likely because of their elite status they're the easiest to remember for the layperson? Dragoons weren't elite, they were scrubs that moved with horses. They weren't as fast as cavalry, but faster than peasants, and they weren't as good at fighting as normal infantry, but again, better than peasants. They were originally used only as support units, but they excelled at oppressing peasants, and fighting against rebels and guerrillas. Hussars did lots of nasty stuff too, but they are so dashing ! Dragoon  Hussars Hogge Wild fucked around with this message at 11:33 on Dec 26, 2014 |
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Dec 26, 2014 11:23
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I can think of two reasons: Dragoons were used as suppression troops, and in some countries farm owners were required to maintain room and board, as well as stable for seasonally stationed dragoons as a form of tax. In Austria these were frequently Hungarians, reputed for bad temper, slaughtering animals without asking and the impossibility of breaking the language barrier.
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Dec 26, 2014 11:26
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Disinterested posted:What military history related poo poo did everyone get for Christmas, then? Inspired by someone itt, I got myself Zen at War. Hasn't arrived yet, but I'm really excited about it  E: Fun fact, most of the bloodiest labor suppression ops in Danish history were carried out by police dragoons! There were others, but the most famous is probably the Battle of the Commons in 1872, where cops straight mounted up and rode protesters down with drawn sabers! E E: 
Tias fucked around with this message at 14:42 on Dec 26, 2014 |
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Dec 26, 2014 11:48
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JcDent posted:
Ugh, early modern!
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Dec 26, 2014 11:57
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steinrokkan posted:I can think of two reasons: Dragoons were used as suppression troops, and in some countries farm owners were required to maintain room and board, as well as stable for seasonally stationed dragoons as a form of tax. In Austria these were frequently Hungarians, reputed for bad temper, slaughtering animals without asking and the impossibility of breaking the language barrier. But why where dragoons used for supression, then? Was it because they were the expedanblemost of cavalry, and, as upjumped as they were, less likely to empathize with peasants and more likely to just drop people on command?
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Dec 26, 2014 12:24
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Tias posted:Inspired by someone itt, I got myself Zen at War. Hasn't arrived yet, but I'm really excited about it The comparable event for Britain would be the Peterloo massacre, which unfortunately for this discussion was perpetrated by dragoons. I dragged some images up in the hope that the men would have been drawn like dragoons because of prior PTSD about dragoons being arseholes, but nope. JcDent posted:But why where dragoons used for supression, then? Was it because they were the expedanblemost of cavalry, and, as upjumped as they were, less likely to empathize with peasants and more likely to just drop people on command? It requires a lot of discipline to not poo poo yourself when a horse runs at you, and it hardly makes a good use of heavy cavalrymen. I think it's because dragoons were a common thing in a lot of European nations at that time; people caught on to the hussar model a bit later, otherwise I'm sure they'd have been employed.
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Dec 26, 2014 12:25
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Disinterested posted:The comparable event for Britain would be the Peterloo massacre, which unfortunately for this discussion was perpetrated by dragoons. I dragged some images up in the hope that the men would have been drawn like dragoons because of prior PTSD about dragoons being arseholes, but nope. The definition of dragoon changed between the 17th century and the 19th in the British Army though; by then, they were heavy cavalry (big men on big horses), not horse-mounted infantry.
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Dec 26, 2014 14:17
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feedmegin posted:The definition of dragoon changed between the 17th century and the 19th in the British Army though; by then, they were heavy cavalry (big men on big horses), not horse-mounted infantry. I'm aware of that. I was just hoping that the men would be depicted as dragoons because that would be interesting in the light of our discussions. However, a light dragoon and a hussar were more or less the same in the British army then, since Britain got hussar fever later than the other European nations.
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Dec 26, 2014 14:25
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HEY GAL posted:3 oz, huh? Unless that thing is chambered specially, when firing solid shot the powder would have been equal to the shot by weight irl. When you fire live shot out of a little gun like that it jumps up in the air and then skitters backwards until it either hits whatever's behind it or stops. Guns of that era that recoil badly were usually staked down. my old unit had a 12 lb Napoleon that we routinely staked down when live firing
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Dec 26, 2014 14:25
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SocketWrench posted:Guns of that era that recoil badly were usually staked down.
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Dec 26, 2014 22:12
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HEY GAL posted:Huh, we had a six pound mountain howitzer and it just kept going until it hit a fence Sounds like an awesome thing for a mountain howitzer to do. It would suck to be the poor artilleryman who has to go tell the CO the gun rolled off a cliff.
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Dec 26, 2014 22:19
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FAUXTON posted:Sounds like an awesome thing for a mountain howitzer to do. It would suck to be the poor artilleryman who has to go tell the CO the gun rolled off a cliff.
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Dec 26, 2014 22:23
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I came across another cool cannon this week.   It's like every few years, they're finding another cannon from the Age Of Sail off of Florida. I want one. Like, for a lawn ornament. http://www.cannonsuperstore.com/non_firing_cannons.html has the idea, but holy crap the prices. I'm gonna coop my own out of an oak tree and iron banding. Real old-school.
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Dec 27, 2014 04:31
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FAUXTON posted:Sounds like an awesome thing for a mountain howitzer to do. It would suck to be the poor artilleryman who has to go tell the CO the gun rolled off a cliff. It's like knocking the ball out of the park. War's over. Let's all go home.
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Dec 27, 2014 10:12
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HEY GAL posted:They're really little. Well yeah, they ought to be. I wouldn't want to be lugging 7-inch field pieces up pikes peak.
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Dec 27, 2014 11:29
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It always amuses me how this painting of Suvorov and his army in the alps makes mountain warfare look so much fun. Just look at the faces of the the Grenadiers in the middle. LOOK AT THEM.
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Dec 27, 2014 15:34
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Those grins are going to turn upside down when they reach the bottom, with the previous ranks' bayonets pointing up like that.
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Dec 27, 2014 15:40
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War is all fun and games until you see the cliff you're about to fall into and get yourself impaled on someone's bayonet. A Good
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Dec 27, 2014 15:44
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Nenonen posted:Those grins are going to turn upside down when they reach the bottom, with the previous ranks' bayonets pointing up like that. Somehow Suvorov still would approve as the bullet is still the fool in that scenario.
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Dec 27, 2014 15:46
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That horse is clearly not a fan of winter sports. Honestly, though, it seems a bit suicidal to insist on riding a horse in that kind of terrain. That giant grin on the old man's face is clearly due to his knowledge that he has the biggest brass balls this side of the Mediterranean.
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Dec 27, 2014 15:48
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Tomn posted:That horse is clearly not a fan of winter sports. An extremely surefooted horse can manage not-that-badly in fairly rocky and steep terrain, but god knows what you do with a heavy draught horse or a horse for the heavy cavalry.
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Dec 27, 2014 15:52
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Tomn posted:That horse is clearly not a fan of winter sports.   Frederick The Who?
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Dec 27, 2014 15:57
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It's probably because those two grenadiers know the proper way to descend that face is by riding a cannon like a sled, rather than coaxing it down on a rope like those losers in the front are trying to do. They're just like "watch this poo poo, sir" 
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Dec 27, 2014 16:14
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So, somehow I acquired a video slideshow (Windows Media player) of a album of photographs taken by various members of my grandpa's marine Air Warning Squadron during "The War" on Okinawa. Really fascinating, shows the men horsing around at camp, setting up equipment, posing with what I believe are WAVES,posing with Okinawans, Okinawa streets with civilians who look to be going about their business, General Mitsuru Ushijima's grave, beautiful shrines... Then we get photos of "Suicide Cliff", then a picture of 3 Marines standing next to a nude, dead woman (with hands strategically covering herself (I'm going to assume the best that it was a suicide) captioned "A GRISLY SCENE IN FRONT OF A TOMB", and a unclear photo of someone in a visibly American uniform holding a bayonet to the back of a blurry figure in a indistinguishable uniform with the caption "SOMEONE'S GETTING A LITTLE BAYONET PRACTICE" I'm hoping the last part there was two Americans horsing around but I really have no idea. Would someone more knowledgeable then me chime in on how common documenting and photographing the darker sides of war were during the Pacific War? Nckdictator fucked around with this message at 05:43 on Dec 28, 2014 |
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Dec 27, 2014 23:41
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Nckdictator posted:Would someone more knowledgeable then me chime in on how common documenting and photographing the darker sides of war were during the Pacific War? This photo appeared in a mainstream news magazine, read by normal human beings: http://life.time.com/history/young-woman-with-jap-skull-portrait-of-a-grisly-wwii-memento/#1 HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 02:23 on Dec 28, 2014 |
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Dec 28, 2014 02:20
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Having read most of Tin Can Sailors (great book!), I was wondering if any other navies had wacky first equator crossing ceremonies? And are those still a thing?
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Dec 28, 2014 06:25
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AceRimmer posted:Having read most of Tin Can Sailors (great book!), I was wondering if any other navies had wacky first equator crossing ceremonies? And are those still a thing? Wiki has a reeeeealy detailed article on it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line-crossing_ceremony quote:In 1995, a notorious line-crossing ceremony took place on an Australian submarine, HMAS Onslow. Sailors undergoing the ceremony were physically and verbally abused before being subjected to an act called "sump on the rump", where a dark liquid was daubed over each sailor's anus and genitalia. One sailor was then sexually assaulted with a long stick before all sailors undergoing the ceremony were forced to jump overboard until permitted to climb back aboard the submarine. A videotape of the ceremony was obtained by the Nine Network and aired on Australian television. The television coverage provoked widespread criticism, especially when the videotape showed some of the submarine's officers watching the entire proceedings from the conning tower Sounds classy. Nckdictator fucked around with this message at 07:08 on Dec 28, 2014 |
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Dec 28, 2014 07:06
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Disinterested posted:What military history related poo poo did everyone get for Christmas, then? HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 07:30 on Dec 28, 2014 |
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Dec 28, 2014 07:25
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AceRimmer posted:Having read most of Tin Can Sailors (great book!), I was wondering if any other navies had wacky first equator crossing ceremonies? And are those still a thing? I can't comment on modern military ships, but oceanic research vessels sure do. So I'm guessing it's still a thing in a lot of navies, too. Edit: like, I have a certificate and all. It's super secret so I can't tell you what all's involved in the ceremony  Mild hazing and pranks type stuff, goofy ceremonies. I'm guessing it varies form ship to ship. Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 08:43 on Dec 28, 2014 |
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Dec 28, 2014 08:25
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Disinterested posted:What military history related poo poo did everyone get for Christmas, then? A cannonball, which I will attempt to throw farther than other people can throw it, thus earning glory for myself and my university. Shotput got started with bored soldiers trying feats of strength, right?
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Dec 28, 2014 21:15
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Chamale posted:A cannonball, which I will attempt to throw farther than other people can throw it, thus earning glory for myself and my university. Shotput got started with bored soldiers trying feats of strength, right? I've never looked up because I don't want to ruin it, but I always imagined shotput originated from a lack of powder, desperation and a really big dude on a cannon crew...
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Dec 28, 2014 22:54
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Disinterested posted:What military history related poo poo did everyone get for Christmas, then?   Almsot done with the first, somewhat disjointed but alright.
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Dec 28, 2014 23:58
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JcDent posted:But why where dragoons used for supression, then? Was it because they were the expedanblemost of cavalry, and, as upjumped as they were, less likely to empathize with peasants and more likely to just drop people on command? PRetty much because they were cheaper than proper heavy horse, but had the same kind of mobility and better flexibility.
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Dec 29, 2014 02:56
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any of you guys got any good ww2 books to recommend? I read some of beevor's stuff, even drier stuff is a plus.
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Dec 29, 2014 05:50
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Because of this thread and my recent successes in Warthunder, I'm in love with Panzer III. If anyone wants to sperg about it, please do.
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Dec 29, 2014 10:47
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