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Remember in Daredevil when Gao had all those slaves who had voluntarily blinded themselves for some mysterious higher purpose? What was that about?
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Apr 21, 2017 02:09
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But like Colleen isn't evil and she was Hand. Which is something Danny had a hard time accepting and Davos never really did. Instead of "brainwashing" I'll say it's children born into a generations old war. There might be a good guy and a bad guy but odds are since it's been going for so long that both sides have done some heinous poo poo and are painting the whole thing in a one sided way. My guess is that, yes K'un Lun are on the good guys and the Hand are the bad guys, but K'un Lun are also assholes who will grab orphaned children and beat and abuse them to turn them into soldiers. Which is pretty hosed up even if they're being trained to fight evil ninja Nazis or something.
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Apr 21, 2017 02:10
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STAC Goat posted:My guess is that, yes K'un Lun are on the good guys and the Hand are the bad guys, but K'un Lun are also assholes who will grab orphaned children and beat and abuse them to turn them into soldiers. Which is pretty hosed up even if they're being trained to fight evil ninja Nazis or something. It's not like the kidnapped Danny, if they hadn't taken him in he would've frozen to death on the mountain. Whether or not he had any other options besides crazy martial arts training once in K'un Lun is a question, but we don't know enough about K'un Lun to answer it.
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Apr 21, 2017 02:14
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Guy Goodbody posted:It's not like the kidnapped Danny, if they hadn't taken him in he would've frozen to death on the mountain. Whether or not he had any other options besides crazy martial arts training once in K'un Lun is a question, but we don't know enough about K'un Lun to answer it. The only movie they have a copy of is Beverly Hills Ninja on VHS, they have to assume Danny is the Great White Ninja. ... Ninja? Did I say ninja? I meant ninny. Danny you are such a ninny.
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Apr 21, 2017 02:28
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Guy Goodbody posted:Remember in Daredevil when Gao had all those slaves who had voluntarily blinded themselves for some mysterious higher purpose? They were Enhanced Asians so they were all Black Skies obviously
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Apr 21, 2017 03:31
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Guy Goodbody posted:Remember in Daredevil when Gao had all those slaves who had voluntarily blinded themselves for some mysterious higher purpose? Is that what happened? I thought she just did it to her couriers because 1) people are less suspicious of a blind person, 2) if said courier did not have a strong grasp of English, it would make them more loyal through dependency, and 3) it would make them less able to witness events and people, thus limiting the scope of possible betrayal.
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Apr 21, 2017 03:39
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Guy Goodbody posted:It's not like the kidnapped Danny, if they hadn't taken him in he would've frozen to death on the mountain. Whether or not he had any other options besides crazy martial arts training once in K'un Lun is a question, but we don't know enough about K'un Lun to answer it. Well I didn't say they kidnapped him. But its one thing to take in orphans and save their lives. Good guys. Its another thing to abuse them to indoctrinate them into soldiers for your war. Not so good guys. You're right, we don't know enough to answer it. That's what leaves it in doubt. But the thing i took away from Iron Fist that while, yes, the Hand are bad guys doing bad things that I assume will play a role in bringing the Defenders together... K'un Lun isn't that great from the stuff we learn from Davos and Danny. Which is why Danny had to break their rules to do what he thought was right.
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Apr 21, 2017 03:39
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As Nero Danced posted:The "reveal" was so crummy I couldn't tell if the gate was closed or Kun Lun was burnt and ruined, or if it was a big brown Rock face. When Danny said, "It's gone," I took that literally. The city only appears for a short time every 15 years, right? All they find through the gate is a valley completely shrouded in fog. I took that to mean that he'd just missed his window to return to K'un-Lun before it magically went wherever it goes. I'm not sure if that's how it works in the comics, but the way Danny described it sounded a lot like Brigadoon (though with time flowing normally for it when it leaves). There's also no evidence of damage or friendly casualties whatsoever, only four dead Hand who never made it through the pass. It seems like K'un-Lun successfully fought off a minor incursion and just left. It's puzzling that Danny claims that it's all his fault, but that can easily be attributed to him being an idiot.
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Apr 21, 2017 04:37
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notthegoatseguy posted:I mean we know he'll become the villain because Iron Fist has like......2 or 3 villains that aren't complete jokes. It still doesn't really make sense that he'll be teaming up with Gao and Joy, all of which had never met each other before that scene in the cafe. It's like they put random Iron Fist stuff from the comics in a blender and then poo poo all over the results. Joy and Davos had an alliance to "get revenge" on Danny in the comics since she was convinced he killed her dad. Davos was Steel Serpent then and the current Immortal Weapon for K'un-Zi, ruled over by Crane Mother Crane Mother is who I think they're implying Madame Gao is, which is all kinds of hosed up because of a) she's never left the Cities of Heaven and b) she's not in The Hand (really?) Later he was called Steel Pheonix (Crane Mother resurrected him or some poo poo) and hated the gently caress out of Danny because he was the Iron Fist and Davos's father (Lei Kung the Thunderer) always seemed to favor Danny during training. Anyhow between all that, there was a couple story lines involving The Hand trying to steal the power of the Immortal Weapons. The mythology of Iron Fist is loving amazing and they had to spit out this dreck. I really think they would have been better off adapting Immortal Weapons and Eighth City of Heaven story lines, but then you don't get that Hells Kitchen adventures that brings it around to the Defenders. But it would have been a better show. Proteus Jones fucked around with this message at 13:54 on Apr 21, 2017 |
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Apr 21, 2017 04:50
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Astribulus posted:When Danny said, "It's gone," I took that literally. The city only appears for a short time every 15 years, right? All they find through the gate is a valley completely shrouded in fog. I took that to mean that he'd just missed his window to return to K'un-Lun before it magically went wherever it goes. I'm not sure if that's how it works in the comics, but the way Danny described it sounded a lot like Brigadoon (though with time flowing normally for it when it leaves). There's also no evidence of damage or friendly casualties whatsoever, only four dead Hand who never made it through the pass. It seems like K'un-Lun successfully fought off a minor incursion and just left. It's puzzling that Danny claims that it's all his fault, but that can easily be attributed to him being an idiot. The fact that it is ambiguous but then even hard to tell that it's ambiguous because Danny says "this is my fault" is why that scene was dumb. Who the hell knows what is supposed to be happening! Joy deciding she wants to kill Danny after losing trust in her dad and being one of the few rational decision makers in the series was also a dumb scene. The entire epilogue made me feel less invested in the series. They could have easily dropped it all and just started next time around with this stuff given more thought.
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Apr 21, 2017 07:18
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WillyTheNewGuy posted:Is that what happened? I thought she just did it to her couriers because 1) people are less suspicious of a blind person, 2) if said courier did not have a strong grasp of English, it would make them more loyal through dependency, and 3) it would make them less able to witness events and people, thus limiting the scope of possible betrayal. this, basically
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Apr 21, 2017 08:02
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bloodychill posted:The fact that it is ambiguous but then even hard to tell that it's ambiguous because Danny says "this is my fault" is why that scene was dumb. Who the hell knows what is supposed to be happening! As someone who mostly enjoyed the series and will probably get into more pointless defenses of it I 100% agree that the entire epilogue was poo poo.
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Apr 21, 2017 23:22
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STAC Goat posted:As someone who mostly enjoyed the series and will probably get into more pointless defenses of it I 100% agree that the entire epilogue was poo poo. It's too bad, because I thought episode 12 was a good finale. Or at least a good mid-season finale. I've said this before, but I think Iron Fist as written would have worked really well as a 22 episode network show.
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Apr 22, 2017 03:48
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Yakmouth posted:It's too bad, because I thought episode 12 was a good finale. Or at least a good mid-season finale. God drat, I couldn't imagine expecting to slog through 12 eps of mostly poo poo in order to watch another 8 or 10 eps of potentially okay quality. I mean, Agents of Shield expects you to, but man, that's an awful thing to hope for in other shows.
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Apr 22, 2017 06:15
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Drifter posted:I mean, Agents of Shield expects you to, but man, that's an awful thing to hope for in other shows. you are lovely and your opinions are lovely
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Apr 22, 2017 06:22
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10-13 full hour-long episodes laid out is preferable to a drip feed over a normal tv season. AoS drives me crazy with that.
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Apr 22, 2017 06:34
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bloodychill posted:10-13 full hour-long episodes laid out is preferable to a drip feed over a normal tv season. AoS drives me crazy with that. ive said this in another thread: half-season breaks should be punishable by death in fact, gently caress "seasons" we should have 52 weeks of non-stop episodes of every single show
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Apr 22, 2017 06:38
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enraged_camel posted:ive said this in another thread: half-season breaks should be punishable by death Ever watched a soap opera?
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Apr 22, 2017 07:43
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bloodychill posted:10-13 full hour-long episodes laid out is preferable to a drip feed over a normal tv season. AoS drives me crazy with that. Ideally each episode of any tv show should stand on its own merits -- regardless of season length. Now as much as I liked the other Defenders' shows, to me their seasons felt choppy and unbalanced on an episode by episode basis. Iron Fist felt very consistent and even by comparison. I enjoyed each episode with maybe only two exceptions, right up until the very end when nothing really got resolved. Retroactively, the whole season became kind of pointless for me. Danny never really learned anything, Gao was still this cypher of a character, we never learned what happened to Bakuto or the Hand at large, and Harold's story arc fizzled out without much payoff. I felt like the writers were pacing their episodes as if they were working on a network show instead of a Netflix mini-series. This is obviously a flaw -- everyone knew it was a 13 hour story they were telling. And I'm not obsessive enough to check anyone's resume to confirm if the writers had more experience with longer arcs or not. This is all just my thinking about why Iron Fist didn't 'work' as well as it could have. Anyone who feels the show didn't work at all is obviously going to have a different opinion. I can perfectly understand if Danny's characterization, the rushed fight-choreography, deviation from the source material, or any of the dozen or so other complaints brought up in this thread were deal-breakers for a potential audience. I can perfectly understand that if someone hated the whole thing then they wouldn't think more lovely episodes would fix the series. But I liked the show, I just didn't like how it ended. And I think the reason I didn't like the ending is that the writers 'ran out of road' so to speak.
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Apr 22, 2017 07:58
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enraged_camel posted:ive said this in another thread: half-season breaks should be punishable by death Counterpoint: I was looking up the finale dates of the Arrowverse shows today and physically shuddered when I saw that there was somehow still another month left of the The Flash in a season that feels like it's been going on forever.
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Apr 22, 2017 08:16
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Agents of SHIELD is fine, but even right now it's not as great as everyone seems to think it is. I get serious cognitive dissonance whenever I read that thread.enraged_camel posted:in fact, gently caress "seasons" enraged_camel posted:...your opinions are lovely
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Apr 22, 2017 08:21
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Shield is consistently enjoyable minus the breaks but the "this is the best tv ever made" posts I see from time to time seem pretty hyperbolic. I also wasn't a fan of the Ward character in that show (whereas Ward in Ironfist was one of my favorites) and I've noticed all the really big Shield fans love AoS Ward. I feel like there's something I'm not getting or some critical difference in taste.
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Apr 22, 2017 08:43
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bloodychill posted:Shield is consistently enjoyable minus the breaks but the "this is the best tv ever made" posts I see from time to time seem pretty hyperbolic. I also wasn't a fan of the Ward character in that show (whereas Ward in Ironfist was one of my favorites) and I've noticed all the really big Shield fans love AoS Ward. I feel like there's something I'm not getting or some critical difference in taste. Is that show even worth slogging through the lovely seasons? Because there's a whole bunch of episodes between me and when it's supposed to get good. They do like, loving 24 a year
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Apr 22, 2017 09:30
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PostNouveau posted:Is that show even worth slogging through the lovely seasons? Because there's a whole bunch of episodes between me and when it's supposed to get good. They do like, loving 24 a year I think it's worth it even with the rough first season. If you're an MCU fan and have a high tolerance for network tv dramas, it's really easy to recommend. If you're not, well...
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Apr 22, 2017 09:57
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enraged_camel posted:ive said this in another thread: half-season breaks should be punishable by death The ravings of a naive madman who has never watched a year long weekly show dive into unwatchable trash. Set lengths for any season are a poor way of doing things and all shows should have the freedom to have a season be 4 episodes long or 24 episodes long depending solely on the story and it's needs.
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Apr 22, 2017 10:19
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bloodychill posted:I've noticed all the really big Shield fans love AoS Ward. I feel like there's something I'm not getting or some critical difference in taste. I don't think it's the character they love, but rather the actor (Brett Dalton), who I think has done his best work so far in the AoS show (and maybe the Until Dawn PS4 game, if that counts), rather than anything else. The good thing I can think of his character in AoS without getting into spoilers territory, is that the writers were finding new things for him to do so his character kept evolving maybe moreso than some of the other protagonists.
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Apr 22, 2017 10:21
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bloodychill posted:Shield is consistently enjoyable minus the breaks but the "this is the best tv ever made" posts I see from time to time seem pretty hyperbolic. I also wasn't a fan of the Ward character in that show (whereas Ward in Ironfist was one of my favorites) and I've noticed all the really big Shield fans love AoS Ward. I feel like there's something I'm not getting or some critical difference in taste. Well, I like Ward and Brett Dalton I guess. I don't even really get the hate there was before umm things happened near the end of the first season after Winter Soldier. I guess everyone thought he was boring before that, but whatever. So, while I of course agree that the perceived level of quality of AoS can be quite exaggerated at times, I'm not sure about the connection between that and Ward/Dalton. If I had to theorize on what's going on, I'd say it's a combination of MCU fandom (I mean a lot of people seem to think Iron Fist was better than mediocre, but if it wasn't an MCU show I bet they wouldn't), people who are loyal to it because they've stuck with it (like me I guess, though I just think it's ok), and (this may be the key) that the show to me feels very...fanservice-y at times and that can garner a lot of goodwill in an audience.
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Apr 22, 2017 10:47
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its amazing scott buck got work after what happened with dexter
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Apr 22, 2017 10:51
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PostNouveau posted:Is that show even worth slogging through the lovely seasons? Because there's a whole bunch of episodes between me and when it's supposed to get good. They do like, loving 24 a year AoS has:
People are excited because the show is kinda the red headed stepchild of Marvel, yet continues to amaze even after 4 seasons. The "lovely" parts consist of just half a season and aren't lovely at all, especially if you binge through it like I did. They just follow a "monster of the week" formula and feel a bit disconnected from the rest of the overall plot since the show was just finding its footing at the time.
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Apr 22, 2017 11:54
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enraged_camel posted:AoS has: You are an extraordinarily generous person.
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Apr 22, 2017 12:20
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I assume they add some actual goddamn superheroes to the cast at some point? The season 1 stuff I watched was just a bunch of regular-rear end motherfuckers with a couple of nerds to  all the problems away. The hot girl or the hot guy or the hot pilot lady get belted with gamma rays and actually become useful?
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Apr 22, 2017 12:22
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PostNouveau posted:I assume they add some actual goddamn superheroes to the cast at some point? The season 1 stuff I watched was just a bunch of regular-rear end motherfuckers with a couple of nerds to yes
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Apr 22, 2017 12:25
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AOS improved a lot from where it started. Now, you can either watch some episodes of it beyond the first season and see what the gently caress people are talking about when they say the show is good. Or not, and be confused when people say that 'AoS is... good?' Wha- how I don't understand. Cuz it's gonna keep coming up as long as Marvel shows are still a topic since, what else are they making that isn't a movie or animated?
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Apr 22, 2017 13:20
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PostNouveau posted:I assume they add some actual goddamn superheroes to the cast at some point? The season 1 stuff I watched was just a bunch of regular-rear end motherfuckers with a couple of nerds to Fitzsimmonds started out as the most painfully clichéd pair of TV nerds I think I've ever seen. CSI levels of awfulness. Since the middle of season two they've been half the reason I watch the show. It does get more exciting once powers start popping up, and the effects are surprisingly excellent. Not quite movie quality, but better than all the CW stuff by far.
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Apr 22, 2017 14:30
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bloodychill posted:Shield is consistently enjoyable minus the breaks but the "this is the best tv ever made" posts I see from time to time seem pretty hyperbolic. I also wasn't a fan of the Ward character in that show (whereas Ward in Ironfist was one of my favorites) and I've noticed all the really big Shield fans love AoS Ward. I feel like there's something I'm not getting or some critical difference in taste. It's the best comic book tv show that actually feels like a comic book tv show, essentially. The other marvel TV hits (Daredevil, Legion) don't embrace full-on comic book as sincerely and wholeheartedly (or as competently) as post-first half of first season AOS. The DC stuff just can't even hope to compete. And AoS does a weird thing where the first half of the first season becomes better in retrospect, because it lays so many little seeds of character development that most shows would never capitalize on, and manages to make them grow into something genuinely interesting. I'm saying this as someone who, ages ago, found the first episode of AoS so bad that I had sworn off the show entirely until I saw the reviews of season 2. I was absolutely convinced than AoS was just complete dogshit and was skeptical all the way up to the Winter Soldier crossover. Now it's prolly my favorite show on TV right now, just in terms of pure fun. Wolpertinger fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Apr 22, 2017 |
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Apr 22, 2017 16:04
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PostNouveau posted:Is that show even worth slogging through the lovely seasons? Because there's a whole bunch of episodes between me and when it's supposed to get good. They do like, loving 24 a year You're going to get a lot of people saying yes, so here's a dissenting opinion. If you want the good part of Shield, then watch the half-season tie in to Captain America: The Winter Soldier (the latter half of season 1). After that, the show took another nose dive into soap opera territory. It becomes so mired in relationship drama and people refusing to tell anyone anything that it's aggravating to watch. Almost none of those relationships are compelling, and the one that could be is constantly derailed by tragic circumstance. The worst offender is Ward who just becomes a lovestruck idiot who refuses to stay gone. I made it through season 3 before finally giving up on the show. It never recovered.
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Apr 22, 2017 16:52
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I'm not saying AOS is some masterful level of TV. But it has a solid cast and crew that does what they can with what they're given (fraction of an MCU film budget stretched over 22-23 episodes per season). The fight scenes have drastically improved but even their worst fight scenes aren't as bad as Iron Fist (which really only had ONE good fight scene). That it isn't "connected" to the MCU isn't a concern to me. Just like Netflix, they've got their own corner of the MCU. And many of the actors have taken on drastically different roles throughout four seasons, and performed well with them. Yeah the season breaks are annoying but that's beyond the show's control. There are a couple weak points (in my opinion, some late s3 episodes are hit hard due to a somewhat bloated cast). But it maintains quality throughout and really doesn't have plots that just fall apart by the end of the season. Season 4 has also benefited from having three distinct but somewhat connected story arcs.
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Apr 22, 2017 17:02
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AoS is just a very mid-2000s style show of the type that doesn't really get made anymore, e.g. 22-season light sci-fi romp with a cast of quirky characters featuring a mix of self-contained episodes and larger arcs that unfold concurrently. It's a good one of those, and if you liked Buffy and poo poo you'll probably like AoS. It's not really more complicated than that.
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Apr 22, 2017 17:06
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notthegoatseguy posted:The fight scenes have drastically improved but even their worst fight scenes aren't as bad as Iron Fist (which really only had ONE good fight scene). Hakkesshu posted:AoS is just a very mid-2000s style show of the type that doesn't really get made anymore, e.g. 22-season light sci-fi romp with a cast of quirky characters featuring a mix of self-contained episodes and larger arcs that unfold concurrently. It's a good one of those, and if you liked Buffy and poo poo you'll probably like AoS. It's not really more complicated than that. I think we can all agree that Angel is better than Buffy  , and as a fan of Angel, most of season 1 of AoS was dreadful. Maybe it gets significantly better, but woof, what a start.When you talk AoS you are speaking to one of two people: the ones who started and rightfully didn't continue watching, or the ones who apparently don't mind the slog for whatever reason and wait for stockholm syndrome to finally kick in.
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Apr 22, 2017 17:29
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Daisy is the worst and I hate her and her dumb dad
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Apr 22, 2017 17:52
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