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fletcher posted:Should I be concerned about how this drive was packaged for shipping? No other padding at all? It was left to flop around inside the box? Who did you get this from so I can avoid them. For SMART tests I like Parted Magic but its no longer free. I've used Hirens boot disc and falcon four in the past, and I think the Gparted live cd does too. I'm sure someone who does this more often will have a better suggestion.
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Dec 11, 2015 18:49
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thebigcow posted:No other padding at all? It was left to flop around inside the box? Who did you get this from so I can avoid them. SMART tests are performed by the drive so the software issuing the command doesn't really matter does it?
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Dec 11, 2015 19:18
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Raymn posted:SMART tests are performed by the drive so the software issuing the command doesn't really matter does it? Whatever pretty buttons you like clicking on will do fine.
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Dec 11, 2015 20:21
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thebigcow posted:No other padding at all? It was left to flop around inside the box? Who did you get this from so I can avoid them. No other padding, it was flopping around inside the box. This was on Amazon.com sold by Kellards. Amazon would only let me order 4 from them in one go so I had to order the 5th from this other seller. Now I'm nervous  Should I return this thing??Raymn posted:SMART tests are performed by the drive so the software issuing the command doesn't really matter does it? If there's a bootable CD that makes this nice and easy that'd be awesome though. Does the Xubuntu live CD come with everything needed to run these tests?
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Dec 11, 2015 23:24
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fletcher posted:No other padding, it was flopping around inside the box. This was on Amazon.com sold by Kellards. I gotta assume that the retail packaging is designed to protect the device in transit, having it loose inside another box can't really be any worse than if it was inside a box barely larger than the retail packaging. I wouldn't be worried personally. I'd still test the disk though.
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Dec 12, 2015 00:55
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Thanks Ants posted:I gotta assume that the retail packaging is designed to protect the device in transit, having it loose inside another box can't really be any worse than if it was inside a box barely larger than the retail packaging. I wouldn't be worried personally. I'd still test the disk though. And you should be testing any drive you get before you put it into service anyhow, no matter who you get it from: HDD mortality is bath-tub shaped: highest right at the beginning, then tapering off for a long while, then rising again when they hit EOL.
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Dec 12, 2015 02:09
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Speak, o NAS thread. I've bought a new house, and I'd like to update and reconfigure the whole IT infrastructure. The storage capabilities are going to be critical to that, and I'd like some help from people who are more tuned in to what's available and realistic. I currently have an old Intel SS4200-E running the stock EMC software, configured in RAID5 with 1TB Samsung Spinpoint drives, and backing up to an external HDD. That system has served me well, but it's old and I don't want it to be the centerpiece of my storage anymore. When I'm done building things out, these are the capabilities I'd like: - 8TB NAS, with full local backup and partial cloud backup (possibly full cloud if it's cost-effective) - Logitech Media Server to serve music from the NAS (mostly FLAC) to my Squeezeboxes - Emby server for media from NAS - DVR/live watch capabilities for DVB (probably via a 2-tuner HDHomeRun.) - HTPC to drive an eventual projector (so 1024p at a minimum, maybe 4k someday?) - Occasionally bulk loading photos from a phone - Support up to 3 of these activities at once, plus enough storage bandwidth to load and save documents (e.g., office, text files) in the course of normal computer use. Obviously, I'm only asking about storage here, but that should give you some idea of what the storage must support. (I have Cat-6 and I'll be upgrading my wifi, too, so you can also assume modern network speeds.) I don't have a hard budget for this, although I don't want to waste money either. Given all that, here are my questions: 1. Spec-wise, what's the right size for the NAS in this setup? I figured 4 2TB drives (WD Reds, I guess) in RAID5 or ZFS would make the most sense, but I don't really know what I really need in order to meet my needs CPU/RAM/IO wise. 2. Build or buy? I'd prefer to save money and I'm perfectly comfortable building systems running any given Linux/*BSD. If there's no cost savings, though, I suspect I'll get a smaller form factor, lower power use, and less noise from an appliance. 3. Should I aim for my NAS to be a single-purpose machine and have the media server components live elsewhere, or am I better off spec'ing a single box that can do it all? My main consideration in this is performance, specifically not overburdening the machine with both file server and, say, transcoding duties. OTOH, it may help the media server to have direct disk access. 4. Is it reasonable to use the NAS as the target for the DV capture from the HDHomeRun, or should I use a scratch disk/smaller NAS? This may be a good use case for my SS4200, until it craps out. Feel free to ask more questions, or opine on anything else I may have missed. Any insights the thread has will be welcome. Thanks in advance for any advice you may have!
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Dec 12, 2015 18:45
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fletcher posted:Is there a bootable CD I that comes with the utilities to run those tests? You can run it from FreeNAS, or any Linux live CD. Do some research first, the commands can take a long rear end time if you don't select the right flags to throw. I did a SMART short, SMART long, and then a three-run badblocks on four 5TB Toshibas, iirc, it took about 72 hours.
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Dec 13, 2015 16:33
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pgroce posted:Bunch-O-Stuff OK, here goes... 1. If you want 8tb of usable space then you'll have to go with either 3x 4tb in raid5 or 2x 8tb in raid1. You lose 1 drive to parity in Raid 5 so 4x 2tb will only give you 6tb of usable space. 2. Qnap and Synology are the two big NAS vendors. They both offer plug-and-play appliances with easy to use UIs for setting stuff up and app stores that should provide you plenty of software options for everything you want to do. The units you'd probably want to look at are the TS-451+ and DS415+, they are both 4 bay units with processors powerful enough to transcode. On the Qnap side the TS-251+ uses the same processor as the 451+ so it could also be an option if you went for 2x8tb drives. The comparable 2bay Synology unit (DS215+) uses a worse processor than the 415+ so I'm not sure if it would still be up for transcoding duties. The Qnap units have HDMI out and can run KODI if you want to use them to play media as well. Both of their sites also have a software demo site that you can use to get an idea of what their software looks like. On the do-it-yourself side if you don't care about looks/size then the most cost efficient option would be a Lenovo TS140. This gets you an i3 and 4gb of ram for cheaper than you can really build it for yourself. If you want something smaller/cuter than start looking at some mitx cases and decide what you like, just make sure it can fit 4 3.5" drives. Then add a B85/H97 board, the cheapest i3 you can find and 4-8gb of ram. Keep an eye on the price or you could end up spending just as much as one of the Synology/Qnap units. On the software side FreeNAS and Unraid are the two big software options that give you an appliance-like solution similar to Qnap/Synology. The other option is to just install Windows/Linux and set everything up in there. If you go that route you could use either FlexRAID or DrivePool to simplify disk pooling, however they're more geared toward people using a bunch of random sized drives. If you're buying new matched drives then Storage Spaces in windows or wahtever Linux has is perfectly fine. 3. Your NAS should be able to handle any server type duties you're looking for. The only thing that's processor intensive in a home NAS situation is transcoding; anything outlined above should be able to handle 2 streams no problem. On the I/O side general file serving for <10 people in a home situation can be handled by anything. 4. This is one thing that might cause some I/O issues if you're trying to record two shows and stream something else to your TV but I'm not sure if that would be an issue or not. This is something that you might just have to try out and see how it works. One option if it does end up being too much would be to use an SSD as a cache drive. I know Synology/Qnap/Unraid all support this ability, not sure about the others. This would let you setup a SSD as a cache drive so data gets put there first and then later moved to the array for long term storage. Krailor fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Dec 13, 2015 |
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Dec 13, 2015 17:35
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I appreciate the exhaustive answer! Thanks especially for the Lenovo rec. I may still buy one of the Qnap/Synology boxes, but the specs on that one give me a good idea of what can meet my needs without going overboard. And thanks for the reality check on what size drives I need for 8TB at RAID5. Not sure what I was thinking on the 2TB disks.  I may not build this out for a while, but I'll report back when I do. Thanks again!
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Dec 13, 2015 18:07
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pgroce posted:I appreciate the exhaustive answer! Thanks especially for the Lenovo rec. I may still buy one of the Qnap/Synology boxes, but the specs on that one give me a good idea of what can meet my needs without going overboard. For what it's worth, you CAN do 5x2TB to get 8TB usable on RAID5. Though, if you're going to use 2TB drives, just go for 6x2TB and do RAID6, because extra redundancy is worthwhile.
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Dec 13, 2015 18:14
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G-Prime posted:For what it's worth, you CAN do 5x2TB to get 8TB usable on RAID5. Though, if you're going to use 2TB drives, just go for 6x2TB and do RAID6, because extra redundancy is worthwhile. Not much point using 2tb drives if you are buying new, 4tb is where the best $/gb is right now, unless you get some crazy deal. Also, for the recording bit you could set up a temp drive to do your recording, that gets moved to your array every night. This would remove any HD contention issues, and if you use a SSD for your temp drive, you'll easily be able to write to it fast enough that your network is going to be the main issue.
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Dec 13, 2015 19:44
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This is probably stupidly vague but last night I was transferring some movies from my old internal to my new freenas box over Ethernet. It seemed like one of the Reds was getting seriously flogged and then suddenly silence. The freenas web gui would not load and I couldn't SSH in either. It was pretty late so I didn't have time to gently caress around and just left it. I guess I'm going to have to do a hard reset since it isn't near a monitor to see what is going on but I assume Freenas locked up for some reason. Any ideas what could have happened? When it reboots where should I be looking and for what?
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Dec 15, 2015 19:07
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If it boots without any hardware halts, run a short smart test, and if that passes, run a SMART long test.
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Dec 15, 2015 21:59
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sharkytm posted:If it boots without any hardware halts, run a short smart test, and if that passes, run a SMART long test. Short test was fine and I'm doing a long test now. One of the drives is being noisy as hell so I'm pretty sure one of them must be off but I can't tell which. The web GUI is completely unresponsive and the shell while using a monitor is unbelievably slow. I don't think a bad drive would be doing this would it? I'm not really having any luck figuring out what to search for in google to figure out what might be wrong through the shell. A reboot didn't seem to help either. Off to a great start!
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Dec 16, 2015 06:40
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So it appears that the Firefly plugin was not kidding when the default scanner was labeled 'Punishingly Aggressive' Deleting that fixed the bogged down system problem and probably was what hosed everything up last night. Durp.
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Dec 16, 2015 08:11
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All right, I'm starting to cost things out and I noticed something in Krailor's response that I had overlooked before.Krailor posted:1. If you want 8tb of usable space then you'll have to go with either 3x 4tb in raid5 or 2x 8tb in raid1. You lose 1 drive to parity in Raid 5 so 4x 2tb will only give you 6tb of usable space. That TS140 has three drive bays, not four. OTOH, it's also laughably cheap, and FreeNAS seems to support booting from a thumb drive. Any words of caution or encouragement? Thumb drives have ever impressed me with their reliability; it would be pretty stupid if I built a bulletproof ZFS NAS and it went pear-shaped because thumb drives are poo poo. Other than that, it looks like a good, cheap box. I've wanted to run ZFS and FreeNAS for a while, so this seems like the way to go for me. If I can keep this around the $7-800 price point for the whole nine yards, I might be able to get this sooner rather than later.
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Dec 17, 2015 05:50
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With FreeNAS it sort of doesn't really matter if your thumb drive dies after a couple of months. As long as you make backups of your config you can install to a new thumb drive, boot from it, import your config and be back up and running really quickly. I've tested this. I use just some cheap kingston thumb drive that came in a 4 pack and are actually really terrible performance-wise. I use my box as a samba file server essentially. My computers mount shares etc. I have an Amazon FireTV with Kodi on it that mounts the shares as well for media playing. So I don't do any transcoding on it. I do have Sonarr and Couchpotato running in jails though. Not sure how you would handle the DVR stuff.
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Dec 17, 2015 06:28
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pgroce posted:All right, I'm starting to cost things out and I noticed something in Krailor's response that I had overlooked before. I have a TS140, I just put in a cheap 60GB SSD for the OS and it boots from the optical drive SATA cable. Works really well and the system is really fast.
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Dec 17, 2015 06:40
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pgroce posted:All right, I'm starting to cost things out and I noticed something in Krailor's response that I had overlooked before. I just got one of the xeon TS140s a month ago and got it set up with FreeNAS. It does have slots for 4 hard drives, I think it might have a spot for a 5th right under the CD drive. I've only had it running for ~2 weeks now but its been great so far. I'm using a USB flash drive to boot from on it, bought a few just for back up, but FreeNAS has a option in it to mirror the boot drive to another one. So I've got 2 flash drives plugged into the back of it and one is set up as a mirror. The FreeNAS documentation has a guide showing how easy it is here.
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Dec 17, 2015 08:42
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phosdex posted:With FreeNAS it sort of doesn't really matter if your thumb drive dies after a couple of months. As long as you make backups of your config you can install to a new thumb drive, boot from it, import your config and be back up and running really quickly. I've tested this. I use just some cheap kingston thumb drive that came in a 4 pack and are actually really terrible performance-wise. What set of files or dirs count as config here?
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Dec 17, 2015 15:12
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pgroce posted:That TS140 has three drive bays, not four. It has 2 spots, above and below the front intake fan, specifically meant for 3.5" HDDs; there's also space under the slim optical drive in the top 5.25 bay where a drive can be mounted, as well as an empty 3.5" external slot and 5.25" external slot where you can mount drives.
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Dec 17, 2015 15:45
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Thanks for the feedback, everyone! I'm pretty well sold on the TS140 at this point, looking forward to putting this thing together.
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Dec 17, 2015 15:52
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Hughlander posted:What set of files or dirs count as config here? You can actually export a single config file from the web UI.
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Dec 17, 2015 16:53
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pgroce posted:All right, I'm starting to cost things out and I noticed something in Krailor's response that I had overlooked before. The i3 version has 3 bays with an open 5.25 bay you can convert and a 5th you could use if you took out the DVD drive. I think the Xeons have different bay options without needing to convert for a 4th HDD. Speaking of config backups, I'm having trouble figuring out how I should setup my snapshots. This is purely a media server with nothing I would really be broken up about accidentally deleting and not getting back. However, I'd like to snapshot my jails, and I guess my FreeNAS configs? Is it a better idea to make individual snapshots of each jail, or just the jails dataset? Would individual jails only been beneficial if I wanted them done at different schedules? For the FreeNAS config, just select the boot drive? How often is ideal? Should I just snapshot everything anyway? Did I miss where more specific space usage was talked about? The manual was kind of vague. I looked at the documentation and tried to poke around the FreeNAS forums but nobody really talked about schedules and why that I could find. Teabag Dome Scandal fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Dec 17, 2015 |
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Dec 17, 2015 20:39
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I'm in the process of replacing my 2TB drives for 6TB drives. First two went fine:  However, after replacing the third one and booting it back up, pool status is 'faulted' instead of 'degraded' like before:  I tried a couple different new drives in this slot and the same thing happened. If I swap the old one back in goes back to normal. Any ideas?
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Dec 18, 2015 00:14
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Does it happen if you swap ada3 and ada4? That's bizarre as gently caress, I'd lean towards some problem with that port or SATA cable. When it boots up faulted, do you still have ada1 / ada2 / ada3 as devices that you can run smartctl or anything else against?
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Dec 18, 2015 00:22
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IOwnCalculus posted:Does it happen if you swap ada3 and ada4? That's bizarre as gently caress, I'd lean towards some problem with that port or SATA cable. Yup also seems to happen with ada3 and ada4. It does seem I'm able to run smartctl when it boots up faulted. I'm running a short test now on one of the old drives now. Or should I be running it on the new drive?
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Dec 18, 2015 01:22
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Short test on both an old drive and new drive completed with no errors.
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Dec 18, 2015 01:25
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What if you boot the box with no drive in there? I have no idea what's going on there.
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Dec 18, 2015 03:10
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IOwnCalculus posted:What if you boot the box with no drive in there? Also comes up faulted Old drive is in there now and it's back to normal. I'm stumped.
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Dec 18, 2015 06:32
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I made a post about it on the NAS4Free forums: http://forums.nas4free.org/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=10133 Are there any good ZFS mailing lists I should try asking about it on?
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Dec 18, 2015 20:25
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What happens if you run another resilver? It's almost like the first two drives aren't actually in the array, despite showing no errors whatsoever.
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Dec 18, 2015 20:53
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IOwnCalculus posted:What happens if you run another resilver? It's almost like the first two drives aren't actually in the array, despite showing no errors whatsoever. Is it possible to run a resilver without replacing a drive? I can't find anything in the docs about how to run it. Should I do a scrub? I also came across this: quote:It is recommended that you use the persistent /dev/disk/by-id/* device names when creating your pool to avoid any device reordering issues latter Is that what I'm running into here? fletcher fucked around with this message at 02:08 on Dec 19, 2015 |
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Dec 19, 2015 02:05
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A scrub is what I meant, yeah. I have never had drive reordering problems with ZFS in NAS4Free myself, but I suppose it's possible? I think that might be a ZFS on Linux problem in particular, and N4F uses FreeBSD.
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Dec 19, 2015 02:37
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Debating between a Synology DS1813+ and DS1815+ for a homelab and general centralized storage (media, etc). I'm running one ESXi host with 1.2TB worth of RAIDed 600GB SAS 10k drives so I can leave any VMs with huge disk access needs on there, but I was thinking about moving some of my less I/O dependant VMs to networked storage. I gather NFS is as good or better than iSCSI in some circumstances but that's not really an issue right now. My biggest question is whether the upgraded CPU and RAM capacity on the 1815+ would manifest themselves in visible performance in a low I/O need environment. I guess in the end the price difference isn't so great that I'd likely go with the 1815 just to future proof it, but I'm curious whether any of you have any firsthand experience. Looking to pick one up mid-january so I've got time to research.
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Dec 19, 2015 22:08
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Xpenology
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Dec 19, 2015 23:12
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IOwnCalculus posted:A scrub is what I meant, yeah. code:
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Dec 19, 2015 23:53
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When I offline ada2, it goes into degraded state. Shutdown, remove ada2 drive, turn on, and now it's in faulted state. What the heck?
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Dec 20, 2015 02:05
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IOwnCalculus posted:A scrub is what I meant, yeah. fletcher posted:When I offline ada2, it goes into degraded state. Shutdown, remove ada2 drive, turn on, and now it's in faulted state. What the heck? Faulted pool means you're SOL - so I hope it's not that. 
BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 11:08 on Dec 20, 2015 |
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Dec 20, 2015 10:53
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