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bessantj posted:So a sort of power match depending on the hero? I thought he hadn't had that snazzy armour before, he's just been turned to glass that armour along with him. I actually really like that Bronze Age era of Hulk comics where he fought loads of throwbacks to the Atlas/early Marvel era monster and sci-fi books (in some cases, he fought literal revivals of said monsters). Examples: Q'Nax, Bi-Beast, the Nightcrawler, the Missing Link, Zzzax, Torgo, Xemnu, the Leader's humanoids, the Lava Men and borrowed villains like Sandman, Rhino and Absorbing Man. prefect posted:It doesn't seem like being shattered into a zillion little shards should be fatal for a guy who can spread out his grains of sand all over the place and not die. I'm sure Spidey has blown him away with a fire hose at least once. There was one time in Howard Mackie's not-great Spider-Man run where Venom bites him and consumes part of his mass, the result being that he can't retain his form and eventually crumbles apart and gets washed down a drain. He comes back later, but I don't remember how.
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Sep 4, 2018 20:24
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Wheat Loaf posted:I actually really like that Bronze Age era of Hulk comics where he fought loads of throwbacks to the Atlas/early Marvel era monster and sci-fi books (in some cases, he fought literal revivals of said monsters). Yes he did fight an array of beasts, they were pretty cool. Missing Link was just a few issues ago.
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Sep 4, 2018 21:07
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Rick posted:Every time I read some Legion of Superheroes stuff it's wild. I need to go through it all at some point. Legion was probably the most Marvel like book being published at DC in the 1960's since there were ongoing plotlines, developing relationships, and a more serious tone (this is the prompt for someone to quote that with a picture of the planetary chance machine). Especially when Jim Shooter took over, the book is pretty breezy and enjoyable. And in a weird way, its isolation in continuity has led to a lot of wild (and often not very good) things to be done with it. My own Legion reading is kind of spotty, basically up to the end of Shooter, then a bit of the late-70's early 80's, then Waid's run. I keep meaning to go back and read around the Five Years Later timeskip because that period always sounded kind of neat to me. Wheat Loaf posted:I actually really like that Bronze Age era of Hulk comics where he fought loads of throwbacks to the Atlas/early Marvel era monster and sci-fi books (in some cases, he fought literal revivals of said monsters). There's a mid-70's annual where the Hulk fights a whole pile of pre-FF (or slightly post-FF in a case) monsters and each of them introduces themself with "I AM WHATEVER!!" Except for the Thing From Planet X who gets a really long monologue before telling the Hulk that he is called Groot.
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Sep 4, 2018 22:59
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Random Stranger posted:There's a mid-70's annual where the Hulk fights a whole pile of pre-FF (or slightly post-FF in a case) monsters and each of them introduces themself with "I AM WHATEVER!!" Except for the Thing From Planet X who gets a really long monologue before telling the Hulk that he is called Groot. This one? 
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Sep 4, 2018 23:14
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Aw, look at Groot before he was a beloved children's character!
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Sep 5, 2018 01:18
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Wheat Loaf posted:This one? That's the one!
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Sep 5, 2018 04:24
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Dawgstar posted:Aw, look at Groot before he was a beloved children's character! Just remembered the first time Groot turns up he is defeated by termites. Looking forward to that in GotG 3 (I have a long wait, I know.).
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Sep 5, 2018 08:47
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Wheat Loaf posted:Xemnu
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Sep 5, 2018 10:46
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Xemnu's thing was that he was ruler of a planet where his species was going extinct because of its low birthrate, so his plan was to go to Earth where he became a popular children's variety show host on television so he could use his telepathy to mind-control his audience, abduct them and use them to correct his homeworld's ageing population crisis.
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Sep 5, 2018 10:55
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Wheat Loaf posted:Xemnu's thing was that he was ruler of a planet where his species was going extinct because of its low birthrate, so his plan was to go to Earth where he became a popular children's variety show host on television so he could use his telepathy to mind-control his audience, abduct them and use them to correct his homeworld's ageing population crisis. He also stopped by to say howdy to She-Hulk.  
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Sep 5, 2018 11:15
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No joke, if I could write any Marvel comic it'd be Fantastic Four teaming up with the Hulk to take down all these old sci-fi monster villains.
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Sep 5, 2018 11:20
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Nessus posted:Sadly he has yet to pack the Hulk into a DC-9 and dump him into a volcano that he then hits with an H-bomb.  Also I'm going to be interested to start reading She-Hulk just to see how serious her comic is.
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Sep 5, 2018 12:17
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bessantj posted:
The John Byrne She-Hulk was a lot of goofy fun. Actually, the Dan Slott She-Hulk was also a lot of goofy fun. She-Hulk is cool. 
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Sep 5, 2018 12:22
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prefect posted:The John Byrne She-Hulk was a lot of goofy fun. Actually, the Dan Slott She-Hulk was also a lot of goofy fun. She-Hulk is cool. I've read a lot of Incredible Hulk recently and did wonder if She-Hulk would have the same feel to it, but it's goofy? I'm hoping I can get into it then.
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Sep 5, 2018 12:29
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prefect posted:The John Byrne She-Hulk was a lot of goofy fun. Actually, the Dan Slott She-Hulk was also a lot of goofy fun. She-Hulk is cool. The Dan Slott She-Hulk broke my heart when it became suddenly lovely.
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Sep 5, 2018 13:04
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prefect posted:The John Byrne She-Hulk was a lot of goofy fun. Actually, the Dan Slott She-Hulk was also a lot of goofy fun. She-Hulk is cool. Byrne's She-Hulk was Deadpool before Deadpool existed. I think the last six to eight issues of his second run were kind of rough, though the punchline that was issue #50 is worth it. I'd recommend going in blind just so you can say, "What the gently caress?!" but for those who need convincing, the gimmick of the issue is Byrne is dead so they're auditioning replacements and a lot of major creators come in to do a couple pages of self-parody including Frank Miller doing a Sin City pastiche, Simonson doing Thor, the Pinis doing Elfquest, and Adam Hughes doing Adam Hughes. bessantj posted:I've read a lot of Incredible Hulk recently and did wonder if She-Hulk would have the same feel to it, but it's goofy? I'm hoping I can get into it then. The good She-Hulk stuff is totally unlike the Hulk, but there's a lot of bad She-Hulk material. Okay, so you've got the original She-Hulk series that ran for 25 issues. This is crappy 70's Marvel during their, "Oh, yeah, lets make some books starring chicks!" period so it's really not worth reading at all. Then there were a couple of graphic novels that were okay. John Byrne did one of them but it didn't have the same tone as the later She-Hulk book; it was closer to his Fantastic Four stuff. At the time She-Hulk was a member of Roger Stern's Avengers and John Byrne's Fantastic Four simultaneously and they're pretty enjoyable books but the focus isn't on her. Also in one of the FF issues, Stan Lee has naked pictures of She-Hulk that he's going to publish. Really. So then you have the start of the Sensational She-Hulk series by Byrne and this is extremely good and loads of fun. The fourth wall does not exist in this series. I mean look at this:   Unfortunately Byrne is only on the book for about 8 issues. Then Gerber takes over and he's fine but isn't pushing things nearly as hard and the book just slumps down until issue 31 when Byrne gets back on the book and the tone went back:  The bad news is this book was right at the moment that Byrne started going full hack so the later issues of this second run get really lazy. After Byrne leaves again, some team that isn't worth remembering comes on and the book is canceled quickly. Then She-Hulk just kind of floats around not really doing anything for about fifteen years. There's a few one-shots that aren't worth mentioning but she's back to a bit player. Slott launches a She-Hulk comic as his first major work at Marvel and makes the comic all about the absurdities of the legal system in the Marvel universe. This is extremely good and funny. Then after twelve issues, Slott has to take a short break for other commitments and when the book relaunches with a new #1 it's not as good and it goes downhill superfast as Slott decides to use it as a platform to fix things he doesn't like and it gets taken oven by crossovers. Peter David picks up the book after Slott and though you'd think he would be a good fit, I think the crossover hell hits his run kind of badly as well and it never really develops. Then there's the Charles Soule She-Hulk series which definitely has its boosters but I couldn't get into it so I won't say a whole lot about it. Finally, we've got a new series that's a dark, serious take on She-Hulk. It's fine and I understand what Mariko Tamaki is trying to do, it's just that she's doing a serious story about trauma with a character that people liked for the light-hearted tone. It's basically the Penance take on She-Hulk, though not nearly that incompetent. Random Stranger fucked around with this message at 13:26 on Sep 5, 2018 |
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Sep 5, 2018 13:05
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I've never read Byrne's She-Hulk, but I'll second the greatness of Slott's She-Hulk. His first 12 issues, collected in the "Single Green Female" and "Superhuman Law" TPBs, are excellent. The next story with Hawkeye and Rawhide Kid was fine, but then it started getting bad, especially when he brought in date rapist superhero Starfox. Then Peter David took over, and it was never as good again. I loved Charles Soule's 12-issue run of She-Hulk as well. There was some dodgy art, but the writing was great, and it was funny and fun, with Patsy Walker as her assistant and a return to focusing on her legal career.
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Sep 5, 2018 14:03
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My biggest problem with Slott's She-Hulk was his need to "fix" things he saw as continuity errors.
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Sep 5, 2018 14:07
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Rhyno posted:My biggest problem with Slott's She-Hulk was his need to "fix" things he saw as continuity errors. *comic book nerd rocking back and forth, hugging his knees* "Everything in its place... everything must fit together..."
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Sep 5, 2018 14:24
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Lobok posted:*comic book nerd rocking back and forth, hugging his knees* Well it was more like dangling plots like a character in Ms Marvel that Brian Reed was like "uh, we had plans for that" or Slott's need to make it absolutely certain that She Hulk didn't bang the Juggernaut.
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Sep 5, 2018 14:32
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Rhyno posted:Well it was more like dangling plots like a character in Ms Marvel that Brian Reed was like "uh, we had plans for that" or Slott's need to make it absolutely certain that She Hulk didn't bang the Juggernaut. Which writer was it that didn't understand the concept of a joke and went out of their way to note that Squirrel Girl totally didn't beat up Thanos?
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Sep 5, 2018 14:41
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Rhyno posted:Well it was more like dangling plots like a character in Ms Marvel that Brian Reed was like "uh, we had plans for that" or Slott's need to make it absolutely certain that She Hulk didn't bang the Juggernaut. How is Reed's Ms. Marvel run? You don't hear a thing about it these days, I guess coming from right before Carol got promoted (in theory, anyway).
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Sep 5, 2018 14:49
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Big Bad Voodoo Lou posted:I've never read Byrne's She-Hulk, but I'll second the greatness of Slott's She-Hulk. His first 12 issues, collected in the "Single Green Female" and "Superhuman Law" TPBs, are excellent. The next story with Hawkeye and Rawhide Kid was fine, but then it started getting bad, especially when he brought in date rapist superhero Starfox. Then Peter David took over, and it was never as good again. 
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Sep 5, 2018 14:54
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Dawgstar posted:How is Reed's Ms. Marvel run? You don't hear a thing about it these days, I guess coming from right before Carol got promoted (in theory, anyway). Pretty blah. I remember enjoying it but nothing stands out as being great. There's some Nextwave love in there though.
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Sep 5, 2018 15:02
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It has some fans. Personally I loathe it, mostly for the arc where the Puppet Master gets a grimdark makeover, gains the ability to control his puppets precisely, and uses it to head up an international sex trafficking ring where he abducts superpowered women and prostitutes them as custom sex dolls to an audience of rich men. Like, literally, Reed wrote in the Puppet Master gaining a new "precise control" power explicitly so that he could have some patter in the story about, "you just tweak the doll like so, and she performs whichever sex act you prefer!". It's loving hideously awful. Among the victims are Tigra and Cassie Lang, along with a bunch of continuity pulls like Dusk and Battleaxe. Cassie at the time was like fifteen, so yeah, Reed wrote "was sexually enslaved by the Puppet Master and prostituted to various men" into a teen hero's story for no purpose other than cheap exploitation. And to be clear, this isn't something Puppet Master is planning to do, but Ms. Marvel stops him - it's something he completely succeeds in doing for months until Carol stumbles on him after he abducts Arana. She saves Arana from being turned into a sex slave, but too bad for Tigra and Cassie I guess! Also the Puppet Master sexually menaces Ms. Marvel and makes a rape doll of her and is like, "you know you want it, glllrlrrhrhr". She manages to break his control before he does anything but it's still pretty upsetting. I looked up the issue number and here's an awful snip from the solicit for the first issue in that arc (Ms. Marvel Vol.2 #18): quote:The ongoing team of writer Brian Reed and artist Aaron Lopresti kicks off the three-part "Puppets" with a last-page reveal that'll have fans of female heroes buzzing! Creepy!
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Sep 5, 2018 15:04
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That's a shame. I read the first issue just now and it was fun. It's like the only Carol thing in years to assume we don't know who she is and show us why we should care about her, as opposed to the 'she's awesome because we say so' approach that like everybody else has used since.
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Sep 5, 2018 15:07
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Carol is written as a directionless, unlikeable character under Brian Reed. I know she's not written very likeable in anything, but it was pretty dire under Reed. She was just always angry and self-conscious and second guessing herself and never had any arcs.
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Sep 5, 2018 15:07
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For what it's worth I'm pretty lukewarm on the issues that aren't the horrifically bad Puppet Master arc, too, but they're not as awful. Most of them are just sort of boring.
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Sep 5, 2018 15:09
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Rhyno posted:Well it was more like dangling plots like a character in Ms Marvel that Brian Reed was like "uh, we had plans for that" or Slott's need to make it absolutely certain that She Hulk didn't bang the Juggernaut. IIRC he also tried to undo Peter Parker's identity being public for some reason. There was that comic about teens being trained as superheroes and they had a couple of people in the Iron Spider costume and there was a scene where they were talking to reporters and said that Peter was just covering for them or something like that. It was really stupid and unnecessary, especially considering that BND was just around the corner.
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Sep 5, 2018 15:09
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They were pushing her and Wonder Man together and I've always liked Simon so my memories might be clouded by that.
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Sep 5, 2018 15:09
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There's probably an interesting conversation in why Carol seems so hard to write.
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Sep 5, 2018 15:17
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Dawgstar posted:There's probably an interesting conversation in why Carol seems so hard to write. She's a republican in the military and every good writer is an anti-war liberal or outright socialist. And she's also a woman and there's not nearly enough women writers who've worked for the Big 2. I just don't know why they keep trying to make her a thing. When The Shroud didn't take, they didn't try 50 other times.
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Sep 5, 2018 15:19
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Lurdiak posted:I just don't know why they keep trying to make her a thing. When The Shroud didn't take, they didn't try 50 other times. The Shroud isn't named after the company publishing her.
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Sep 5, 2018 15:22
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Her name is Captain Marvel (branding!), she has a long history of continuity and moderate success, and I guess they think one day that moderate success will translate alchemically into a big deal character. Plus, the more they feature her, the more supporting evidence they have for any future copyright scuffle with DC about the Captain Marvel name. You're right though, it's kind of hard to write a sympathetic Republican ex-military hawk who's on top of the world and whose main adversities are bureaucracy and dealing with the big, important jobs she gets given. She's very very far from your standard underdog hero template.
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Sep 5, 2018 15:25
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Rhyno posted:They were pushing her and Wonder Man together and I've always liked Simon so my memories might be clouded by that. I started reading Avengers when Busiek was writing it and the big relationship story arc he was pursuing was Wonder Man and Scarlet Witch, so that's what ingrained itself in my mind about the characters and Wanda/Vision being the big Avengers romantic arc has long been strange and remote to me.
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Sep 5, 2018 15:26
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Android Blues posted:You're right though, it's kind of hard to write a sympathetic Republican ex-military hawk who's on top of the world and whose main adversities are bureaucracy and dealing with the big, important jobs she gets given. She's very very far from your standard underdog hero template. And it's interesting because once upon a time they did make a sympathetic billionaire arms dealer, so such things can be done. (Amusingly they're both recovering alcoholics.)
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Sep 5, 2018 15:36
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Have they actually referenced Carol's drinking in the last 10 years or so? I gave up on her books so I missed it if they have.
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Sep 5, 2018 15:37
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If they were pushing her and Wonder Man when did she and Rhodey get together?
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Sep 5, 2018 15:42
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bessantj posted:If they were pushing her and Wonder Man when did she and Rhodey get together? The Carol/Simon stuff was like 2006. Her and Rhodey is like 2015.
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Sep 5, 2018 15:45
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Big Bad Voodoo Lou posted:I've never read Byrne's She-Hulk, but I'll second the greatness of Slott's She-Hulk. His first 12 issues, collected in the "Single Green Female" and "Superhuman Law" TPBs, are excellent. The next story with Hawkeye and Rawhide Kid was fine, but then it started getting bad, especially when he brought in date rapist superhero Starfox. Then Peter David took over, and it was never as good again. It's been awhile since I re-read Stern's Avengers (which was my first favorite comic) but Starfox in that (which is probably his only major featured run in... ever?) he had to very deliberately turn on his power and used it mainly to suggest that maybe supervillains/bank robbers/etc. should just like, chill out and enjoy that beautiful sunset. She-Hulk and Starfox *did* hook up as implied in about three panels in the run with them getting dressed the morning after, but Slott was the one who made it CREEPY MIND CONTROL in what seemed to be his quest to prove that She-Hulk didn't REALLY have that many sexual partners, which is very important because __________________________.
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Sep 5, 2018 15:56
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