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Baculus posted:What's your problem with DBRB? Boat is just an unironic terrible human being over all.
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Jul 7, 2016 16:10
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Zephyrine posted:Boat is just an unironic terrible human being over all. He's an aggressive fat guy in a hat who shoots space bombs at you. Where did he touch you?
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Jul 7, 2016 16:12
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no for once she's right, boat is awful
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Jul 7, 2016 16:14
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I only really had a problem with DBRB when I was in one of his fleets and it would turn from a 90-minute outing into a 5 hour POS/structure bash extravaganza how is he not seen as one of the game's best FCs though? He's certainly had one of the longest and most prominent careers also, it's kinda great that FCON is running similar numbers to GSF when they do fleets
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Jul 7, 2016 16:15
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I don't fault former Imperium allies for staying true to their cultures. It's the type of thing that keeps groups organized as a coalition instead of merged into an alliance. It's simply a lower level of commitment. I think it's completely understandable that members of a coalition would reserve the right to deal with invasions in their own way. Had a corp decided to do the bushido battle thing within GSF, that would be a different story and you could criticize them for not paying fealty to GSF's skyteam.
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Jul 7, 2016 16:16
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NtotheTC posted:It really seems like all CCP need to do is get rid of the initial 2-3 months of training dull as poo poo "fitting" skills, polish this SCOPE mission system up a bit, and then another B-R would boost the numbers and allow them to retain them a bit better. My first attempt to play EVE was in 2007 or something, and I gave up because I was your standard highsec pubbie trying to mine his way to riches. Then I came back in 2014 for 3 months and joined Goonswarm, and that was much better but having to train for 30 days and see almost no improvement in what you can fly/how well you can fly it was too offputting. This is my third attempt and now I'm past 12mill SP on my main it is so much more enjoyable. they have fixed the fitting skills a little bit at least i think the bigger problem with eve is that is is unlike any other game out there and looking at it like a regular game will make you want to kill yourself. in most games the game engages the player for a little bit and then sends them on a breadcrumb trail explaining how the game works and the world is structured in a way so the player knows their limitations. incremental skinner box rewards serve to give the player a sense of progress as well as guide them to the 'end goal' none of that stuff would really be applicable to eve. i think a ton of new players in eve mistake turds for those type of breadcrumbs and find themselves doing missions or mining when those are not only uninteresting but don't even involve the things that make eve cool. many of them fall under the fallacy that they are a new player so new players cant make money or be useful because that is the expectation set in every other game ever its why i think many people dislike eve, because either they don't know how to play a game that isn't runescape, or they only saw the pve combat and mining and assumed it was lovely space runescape
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Jul 7, 2016 16:17
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AT14 rules are out. TLDR: AT13 except: 10v10, BC hulls are more points, and no energy transfers across the board. Interesting. e: Larger take on rules: Things they changed: * 10v10: Not sure if I like this. The meta changes significantly by having two less support characters; you're going to see a lot more unbonused ewar, or a lot more recons. OTOH, makes practices easier. I think the danger of a 10-man comp is that fewer pilots + more points for BCs is going to encourage high-tank turtle comps, since you can't put as much DPS on the field. * Banning Tinker/Meepo comps: GOOD * Limit to one infinipoint per HIC: Probably good. HICs would be a little OP otherwise as an anti-kite counter. * No MJFGs on CDs: Probably good. It's disappointing, because I wanted to see their tactics, but I think 99% of CD tactics would be "we're gonna suicide two CDs to make sure the other 8 ships can murder the rest of the team while they're away from their logi." * No T2 repair drones: Lame. They didn't rep that much more than T1 drones, and were a good SP threshold. * Cheap Bhaalgorn: gently caress's sake, CCP. It was already one of the strongest choices for flagships. * Cheap Ashimmu/Cruor: gently caress's sake, CCP. They're still garbage hulls. * Cheap T1 cruiser hulls: Huh, probably not the best idea. T1 logi are still 11 points, but the rest of the T1 cruisers are 5. With the BC hulls more expensive now, why would I take a T1 cruiser when I could spend one more point to take a Bifrost or Stork and get a ganglink and a little bit of LML dps? Things they didn't change, and should have changed: * No Nestor. Come on, CCP. The combat refitting nerf should make this a usable hull again. * Marauders still can't use Bastion. Is there _any_ reason to field a Marauder without Bastion? ullerrm fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Jul 7, 2016 |
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Jul 7, 2016 16:29
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Landsknecht posted:I only really had a problem with DBRB when I was in one of his fleets and it would turn from a 90-minute outing into a 5 hour POS/structure bash extravaganza Probably because he's not a good FC- He's just always willing to go out an murder things- be that an enemy fleet or more realistically a tower/structure.
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Jul 7, 2016 16:29
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ullerrm posted:AT14 rules are out. TLDR: AT13 except: 10v10, BC hulls are more points, and no energy transfers across the board. Interesting. No tinkers? what Do you think that's related to everyone having perfect skills for everything now? Why would they kill the tinker 
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Jul 7, 2016 16:30
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Elsa posted:Do you think that's related to everyone having perfect skills for everything now? Why would they kill the tinker Because it's boring as gently caress to watch. Flat out.
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Jul 7, 2016 16:31
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Xolve posted:Because it's boring as gently caress to watch. Flat out. EVE IS BORING AS gently caress TO WATCH lol
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Jul 7, 2016 16:31
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Elsa posted:EVE IS BORING AS gently caress TO WATCH lol Yeah, but watching two tinker teams fight is watching grey bars turn red. slowly. for 10 minutes.
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Jul 7, 2016 16:33
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the AT is the weirdest thing because it's this yearly thing where elite pvpers are given items worth trillions of isk
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Jul 7, 2016 16:40
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Landsknecht posted:the AT is the weirdest thing because it's this yearly thing where elite pvpers are given items worth trillions of isk An odd attempt at e-sports but where's in an RTS or FPS people will have a general idea of what's going on. Even most Eve players aren't sure what's going on during an AT match.
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Jul 7, 2016 16:43
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They should rename AT to Gang Tournament and host an Alliance Tournament where it's two fleets of 250 and you lose when 75% of your points are gone. Showcase what EVE is good at, stop limiting it to two teams of 10 like every other game out there. Also broadcast FC commands to the viewer.
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Jul 7, 2016 16:49
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Now that is a good idea, goddamn.
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Jul 7, 2016 16:51
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Elsa posted:They should rename AT to Gang Tournament and host an Alliance Tournament where it's two fleets of 250 and you lose when 75% of your points are gone. Not sure EVE can field 64 teams of 250 pilots at this point.
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Jul 7, 2016 16:52
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Zephyrine posted:An odd attempt at e-sports but where's in an RTS or FPS people will have a general idea of what's going on. Even most Eve players aren't sure what's going on during an AT match. nobody outside of the teams that are playing is really sure about what's going on, because eve pvp is simultaneously both simplistic and complicated enough that it makes no sense whatsoever I mean a lot of what actually goes on in EVE pvp on tq is n+1 to an extent, although you can skill past this (literally skillpoints; PL's ability to drop proteii, rattlesnakes, command ships or anything else is a pretty powerful thing), but when you're number limited it's a lot more arcane
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Jul 7, 2016 16:52
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Super neat idea, except 1) good luck getting 250 nerds online to practice 2) good luck finding a significant number off alliances that can reliably field 250 nerds 3) holy poo poo that would be boring as gently caress 4) holy poo poo that would be boring as gently caress
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Jul 7, 2016 16:54
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ChickenWing posted:Super neat idea, except if people could just use 250 of whatever it would be hard-counter-y faction BS as gently caress nightmares, rattlesnakes, NAPOCs+Bhaalgorns, machariels; take your pick
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Jul 7, 2016 16:55
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Xolve posted:Not sure EVE can field 64 teams of 250 pilots at this point. You can start with fewer. 32, or 16. Doesn't have to be drawn out over a month or whatever. Field whatcha got, EVE is known for large fights.
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Jul 7, 2016 16:56
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Xolve posted:Not really a huge proponent of the reddit hive mind, and 'what they want' is akin to what a 6 year old in a toy store wants. I wasn't suggesting you were, but your previous comment made me think of that amusing gem. Boat fleets are generally not to my tastes but a lot of people find them fun so more power to him. Dumb question about AT ships - whenever someone dies in one zkillboard assigns a suspiciously round number to the hull value. Is there an active enough market for those ships that it's a credible number or is that just some CCP-assigned default? Same question with titans and supers really, although I guess there can be a market for those now with Keepstars.
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Jul 7, 2016 16:56
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ive only watched worlds collide but it was super interesting and hella cool and ive never been into esports legit dont get esports though, i mean i get watching people at incredibly high levels of play because you can learn a lot but most of the people into esports aren't into it for that reason its more about cheering for a team than anything havent played league in years but the people i knew into league esports were god damned terrible
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Jul 7, 2016 16:57
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ChickenWing posted:Super neat idea, except I have been told mirror matches are okay too. You can limit the bling bloat with a points system.
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Jul 7, 2016 16:58
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I think it'd be pretty cool to see scenarios though. Instead of a simple 5v5 on an open grid you could do a station defense and limit the range with no warp outs. Defending a 100km bubble around a station that takes up at least a quarter to half that space in the middle would make some interesting plays in trying to keep range. Or a gate camp scenario. Or how about two fields joined by an acceleration gate?
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Jul 7, 2016 16:58
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Morris posted:I wasn't suggesting you were, but your previous comment made me think of that amusing gem. Boat fleets are generally not to my tastes but a lot of people find them fun so more power to him. I don't know the answer to your particular question about AT ship value. I just want to mention zkillboard has a glaring flaw of assigning a kill's total value to each player on the kill parade, when it would be more accurate to divvy it up by damage percentage. It would be hilarious to see players' kill:death ratios adjusted this way, and a lot of them would see their kill totals cut down to 5% or less. While losses would be unaffected because those are always "solo." The Imperium is trying to commission a custom killboard, I would like to see this feature. So far Goblin was the only person who made the effort to determine a character's ISK killed by damage percentage.
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Jul 7, 2016 17:01
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the alliance tournament should be turned into a thunderdome. All the teams warp into the arena at the same time, last man standing wins.
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Jul 7, 2016 17:02
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Landsknecht posted:nobody outside of the teams that are playing is really sure about what's going on, because eve pvp is simultaneously both simplistic and complicated enough that it makes no sense whatsoever But even as an observer it's not very interesting. Ships orbit around and the colours of the beams changes. The narrators frantic to explain what happens because observers can't experience it. It's nothing like "Ship A made a sharp turn and fired a volley of missiles that vaporized three enemy ships" But instead "They changed damp focus to the enemy logi. Reducing the range they can lock targets before applying neuts to the ewar in an attemp to shut off their tank" 
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Jul 7, 2016 17:04
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Morris posted:I wasn't suggesting you were, but your previous comment made me think of that amusing gem. Boat fleets are generally not to my tastes but a lot of people find them fun so more power to him. i think it's the isk value based on materials, which is less than the actual time/effort cost required to make the hull yeah. people don't sell supers and titans for that price but it's not far off what they actually go for, not including bling. it's also not really an open market since people dont really sell supers to strangers so an accurate cost is hard to pinpoint since half the poo poo used to build it was probably laying around in their buddy's hangar. there most likely won't be market like that for that reason. with AT ships it's all exclusivity and i think the price is over-inflated, if anything. they still go for many billions when they sell but there aren't a ton of people willing to drop a hundred billion on a subcap and the massive target on their head pushes away potential buyers
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Jul 7, 2016 17:06
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Xolve posted:Because it's boring as gently caress to watch. Flat out. Not only is it boring as gently caress to watch, it's boring to fly for everyone except the logi ship too. Flying a tinker logi is a hair-raising experience; even with all those energy transfers coming in, you're still on the knife edge of cap stability and have to be VERY careful with managing your cycle times so you don't drop below 25% when your XLASB cycles. (Meepos aren't quite as nasty for the logi, but still boring for everyone else, and the meepo comp isn't as competitive when T2 drones are banned.) It's boring to fight a tinker/meepo as well, because there's a very short list of counters for them, most of which are quite predictable and simple. (ECM, neut rushes, etc.)
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Jul 7, 2016 17:07
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what is a meepo
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Jul 7, 2016 17:08
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IMO the AT should just assign points values and no other rules; it'd be funny to see 10 thoraxes, or like a VNI spider-tank team
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Jul 7, 2016 17:12
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nessin posted:I think it'd be pretty cool to see scenarios though. Instead of a simple 5v5 on an open grid you could do a station defense and limit the range with no warp outs. Defending a 100km bubble around a station that takes up at least a quarter to half that space in the middle would make some interesting plays in trying to keep range. Or a gate camp scenario. Or how about two fields joined by an acceleration gate? a while ago i was trying to plan out making a cinematic fight scene out of a scenario that people actually see in eve but realized the effort involved would basically be the same as setting up a tournament which would probably be way easier in terms of micromanaging random nerds but it made me really want to do like mediated tournaments out of imbalanced scenarios like that, with bubbles n poo poo or multiple grids
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Jul 7, 2016 17:13
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Elsa posted:what is a meepo a lovely name, for a lovely concept, for a lovely tournament.
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Jul 7, 2016 17:17
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The alliance tournament should be restructured to be 50 man fleets, allow warping, and be fought over an objective.
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Jul 7, 2016 17:18
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Elsa posted:what is a meepo meepo is a dota hero whos ultimate gives you meepo clones to control with the catch being if any die they all die
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Jul 7, 2016 17:19
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Landsknecht posted:IMO the AT should just assign points values and no other rules; it'd be funny to see 10 thoraxes, or like a VNI spider-tank team Problem is, they were dumb 99% of the time. I can only remember one time poo poo like that has worked, and that was Star Fraction doing a ten Thorax rush comp vs a BoB turtle comp.
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Jul 7, 2016 17:23
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ullerrm posted:Problem is, they were dumb 99% of the time. I can only remember one time poo poo like that has worked, and that was Star Fraction doing a ten Thorax rush comp vs a BoB turtle comp. that makes it even better though, because people are able to field dumb comps that will lose just wait until PL or some other alliance fields a team made up exclusively of AT ships and dumpsters everything
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Jul 7, 2016 17:26
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EVE is just too slow and complicated for casual viewers to understand. Its like with counter strike, you don't have to know anything about the game to enjoy watching a pro match. With eve, the casters would have to explain every detail about everything since they would have to assume there are new viewers tuning in for each match.
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Jul 7, 2016 17:40
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Stealthgerbil posted:EVE is just too slow and complicated for casual viewers to understand. Its like with counter strike, you don't have to know anything about the game to enjoy watching a pro match. With eve, the casters would have to explain every detail about everything since they would have to assume there are new viewers tuning in for each match. it's actually much easier to understand at a macro level; because so-and-so won a fleet battle and captured a key system they secured the rest of the constellation, etc.
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Jul 7, 2016 17:53
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