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i played the skarsnik campaign and the welves add a whole new element to that area namely, they got pissed at the dwarf rival dudes and killed them all for me (i got to have some proper fights against them at least, but i wasn't unhappy to see those ancestor dickbags vanish), and then shadowed me throughout the campaign. we're became allies, bound by our love for the color green, i guess, and then they got to run around, scattering outposts around the path from the grey mountains to the badlands, and some in the badlands proper, because they really, really hated dwarves for the whole campaign, for some reason. i imagine if you wound up on their shitlist in the skarsnik campaign, things would go very, very poorly, very quickly. Corrode posted:6th ed had Beasts/Daemons/Warriors of Chaos which were separate books but you could do some mixing and matching, then in 7th ed you had separate books with no mixing allowed. Daemons were bent as a nine bob note in that edition, incidentally. yeah the guy who wrote it said something like "they're chaos daemons they SHOULD be overpowered!  "gw really, really doesn't care for any sort of notion of game balance, and then get very confused when some armies don't sell well. Tiler Kiwi fucked around with this message at 08:26 on Dec 15, 2016 |
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Dec 15, 2016 08:24
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Tiler Kiwi posted:
I can imagine this going down. "GREEN IZ DA BEST!!!" "Uh, sure buddy, whatever you say" *disappears into foliage*
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Dec 15, 2016 10:50
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Vlex posted:I can imagine this going down. they had a couple good lines on the diplomacy screen. "Ariel grant me patience to deal with the orcs", "your kind is not blessed with intelligence so i will keep it simple; we say yes". they got nice and polite later tho, which somehow was even more comical, given that its some reincarnated noble elven lord kissing up to skarsnik's ugly rear end face
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Dec 15, 2016 11:56
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These welf changes makes them probably the easiest Singleplayer faction. CA overreacted really hard with these buffs, the AI can't deal with it at all. The only challenging part that remains is figuring out the first 10 turns or so since they don't get an obvious starting route like all the other factions get (I think the ~optimal~ way is declaring war on the other welf factions and then ambush wiping their stacks) e: I guess it was justified in multiplayer but that just shows how difficult it is to balance single and multiplayer.
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Dec 15, 2016 12:36
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Kainser posted:These welf changes makes them probably the easiest Singleplayer faction. CA overreacted really hard with these buffs, the AI can't deal with it at all. The only challenging part that remains is figuring out the first 10 turns or so since they don't get an obvious starting route like all the other factions get (I think the ~optimal~ way is declaring war on the other welf factions and then ambush wiping their stacks) If you take any casualties when fighting Brettonians in the first ten turns you're doing something wrong. Beastmen aren't much harder. The range increases are retarded.
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Dec 15, 2016 13:16
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Glade Guard went from fragile support auxiliaries to "I put 8 of these in an army and gunline everything down from halfway across the map in campaign like I'm playing dwarfs".
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Dec 15, 2016 13:31
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Do Wood Elves lack followers for a reason or did they just forget? I forgot they were thing tbh.
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Dec 15, 2016 13:58
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Based on that reddit thing its a bug they're looking into.
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Dec 15, 2016 14:05
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Kainser posted:These welf changes makes them probably the easiest Singleplayer faction. CA overreacted really hard with these buffs, the AI can't deal with it at all. The only challenging part that remains is figuring out the first 10 turns or so since they don't get an obvious starting route like all the other factions get (I think the ~optimal~ way is declaring war on the other welf factions and then ambush wiping their stacks)
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Dec 15, 2016 14:11
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Ravenfood posted:If you don't want to attack the other W. Elves, taking the absolute closest Bretonnian small village then going into ambush between it and Castle Carcassone lets you siege Carcassone really early on too, which at least gets rid of a somewhat dangerous early-game opponent. Upgraded garrisons behind walls are a bitch for welves before they get their bonuses rolling. Probably not as optimal as taking another wood elf province off the bat, but less risky too. I found it's really not a problem setting up an attack on a bret walled fortress, as they tend to go overboard on cav and they set them all up somewhere completely ineffective. Basically you can just take the walls, get all your archers up there, and then rain starfire or waywatcher arrows on top of them until the routs start happening. When you run out of ammo, bring up your EG, soak the charge and drop them with your not-halberd elfs.
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Dec 15, 2016 14:20
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I'm trying to decide between playing the undead or Orks next, after playing Dwarves to death. Any suggestions? Both look fun to play.
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Dec 15, 2016 15:00
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DeathSandwich posted:I found it's really not a problem setting up an attack on a bret walled fortress, as they tend to go overboard on cav and they set them all up somewhere completely ineffective. Basically you can just take the walls, get all your archers up there, and then rain starfire or waywatcher arrows on top of them until the routs start happening. When you run out of ammo, bring up your EG, soak the charge and drop them with your not-halberd elfs. sort of related: I wish you could dismount cavalry in this game like you could in the older titles. It wasn't something I ever used often but it was nice to have the option in sieges, both as the attacker and defender. I should be able to send Blood Knights up a siege tower and totally roll whoever is at the top of the wall.
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Dec 15, 2016 15:07
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DeathSandwich posted:I found it's really not a problem setting up an attack on a bret walled fortress, as they tend to go overboard on cav and they set them all up somewhere completely ineffective. Basically you can just take the walls, get all your archers up there, and then rain starfire or waywatcher arrows on top of them until the routs start happening. When you run out of ammo, bring up your EG, soak the charge and drop them with your not-halberd elfs.
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Dec 15, 2016 15:09
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O man the red duke is a monster in multiplayer his hero/lord debuff makes him a pretty amazing assassin to just hunt down and murder every moral booster.
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Dec 15, 2016 15:10
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WMain00 posted:I'm trying to decide between playing the undead or Orks next, after playing Dwarves to death. Any suggestions? I personally have way more fun with VC. Of all the Greenskin campaigns only Skarsnick is really fun. Mostly because the other three spend so much time in the badlands fighting other orcs that it gets a bit dull. VC on the other hand never have to mrror match after about turn 15 and you've confederated Sylvania and start in a good position where you can gobble into the Empire and still get a lot of good Orc/Dwarf/Beastmen fights with Chaos a possibility if you head north. Also the VC roster is great and chewing people up with their big monsters is super fun.
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Dec 15, 2016 15:12
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Tekopo posted:The problem with Dark Overlord is that it isn't sure if it wants to be a pure storytelling game or a card game, and thus it decides to mish-mash elements of both. It's got two different ways to play it, one of which is pure story-telling and is far superior. yea
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Dec 15, 2016 15:16
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WMain00 posted:I'm trying to decide between playing the undead or Orks next, after playing Dwarves to death. Any suggestions? Also, it is worth noting that the VC campaign can really drag on if the Dwarves win the war in the badlands while you're off playing Emperor. Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 15:22 on Dec 15, 2016 |
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Dec 15, 2016 15:19
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I started a new Elves campaign and instead of bunkering up for the first period like last time, I went on the offensive and beat up some peasants. A couple of amber and some extra fighting xp is a poor trade for the financial cost of keeping Orion moving with his starter army. Income is less because King's Glade is less developed, upkeep has been way more, I've made some enemies for life, couldn't help Clan Angrund/take the Broken Tooth settlement for myself etc. It's land that's never going to be secure because of the beastmen popping up all the time, and is swimming in corruption even when defended. I don't see the appeal.
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Dec 15, 2016 15:26
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fnordcircle posted:I think I'll just go ahead and auto resolve most fights against wood elf AI, once I've proven that I can beat them with a given army cause fighting against them is so goddamn grueling. Which is good but goddamn I don't think I want to do 20 fights against them in a campaign. Bret FLC is gonna mean rushing the Wood Elves or being besties with them, holy hell. God, if auto-resolve was influenced by previous campaign performance against similar armies that'd be an amazing feature.
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Dec 15, 2016 15:41
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In single player as Wood Elves, how are people determining whether to bring Glade Guard, Deepwood Scouts, or Waywatchers in their armies? Should I consider them a straight line upgrade, and ditch Glade Guard as soon as I have the income to support higher tier units? Right now I'm just sort of doing it at random or whatever I can recruit at the time.
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Dec 15, 2016 15:54
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MisterEff posted:In single player as Wood Elves, how are people determining whether to bring Glade Guard, Deepwood Scouts, or Waywatchers in their armies? Should I consider them a straight line upgrade, and ditch Glade Guard as soon as I have the income to support higher tier units? Right now I'm just sort of doing it at random or whatever I can recruit at the time. For sheer weight of fire at long range, Glade Guard are still better, and you can recruit special-ammo variants - starfire shafts have armour piercing so they can pour out more damage than waywatchers do. I ended up using 4 units of glade guard (with various ammo types) and 2 waywatchers or deepwood scouts with swiftshiver shafts, for different purposes. The glade guard as a main ranged line and the others as skirmishers at the start of a battle and active flankers once battle is joined.
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Dec 15, 2016 16:00
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MisterEff posted:In single player as Wood Elves, how are people determining whether to bring Glade Guard, Deepwood Scouts, or Waywatchers in their armies? Should I consider them a straight line upgrade, and ditch Glade Guard as soon as I have the income to support higher tier units? Right now I'm just sort of doing it at random or whatever I can recruit at the time. Glade Guard with starfire ammunition are probably the best archers in the roster, especially because they're relatively cheap. Glade guard with hagbane tips are useful to have one or two of. I'll throw in some waywatchers once I can recruit them but not too many. I mostly skip Deepwood scouts since I don't find them to be particularly useful and they have less range than both glade guard and waywatchers. They can be good with swiftshiver arrows since they can shoot running away, which makes them good for kiting around beastmen or stuff with little armor.
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Dec 15, 2016 16:05
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How do you get the whole "go into ambush stance, declare on the welfs, and let them come to you" strategy to work when all their settlements are within sightline of each other and they're more than happy to just take out the Oak of Ages? Do you just sacrifice the Oak? Having no discernible goal is definitely the most frustrating thing about the campaign.
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Dec 15, 2016 16:13
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I'd rather have two armies of glade guard than one army of waywatchers. Same with normal Eternal Guard and the advanced line troops. The army buffs on Lords can make the basic troops amazing enough.
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Dec 15, 2016 16:14
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sassassin posted:I started a new Elves campaign and instead of bunkering up for the first period like last time, I went on the offensive and beat up some peasants. This. I went Durthu and I felt like I wasted the first 100 turns in Athel Loren just loving around until peasants would go into Alliances with me. Once I got some Amber and bumped the tree up to forced Confederation for the other hippy elves I burst out of the forest and murdered every fake french man who didn't like me. By the time I beat four fake french factions into the ground Chaos was in full swing, I had 3 full stacks including a gimmick TreeMan/Kin/Dragon stack and the entire world gave me their amber in order to march north and roll Chaos. Now I'm starting the process of destroying all the north man settlements while waiting for a new EverChosen spawn. This has probably been the most boring campaign I've played so far.
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Dec 15, 2016 16:23
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What's the earliest you can get the Lady in the Lake tech? Turn 17? Wood Elves keep Brettonia around as a buffer in the lore and it's for damned good reason imo.
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Dec 15, 2016 16:34
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sassassin posted:What's the earliest you can get the Lady in the Lake tech? Turn 17? Yeah, but they're a pretty lovely buffer. They can't even stop the odd Beastman tribe or two from making it into The Forest.
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Dec 15, 2016 16:48
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Zasze posted:O man the red duke is a monster in multiplayer his hero/lord debuff makes him a pretty amazing assassin to just hunt down and murder every moral booster. Yeah, I've been having a lot of success with him in quick battles, you just have to be careful about heroes like durthu and louen. Even with El Syf on them they can still win a duel. Having blood knights, vargheists or something else that can dish out a lot of damage while el Syf is up can bring down even kholek pretty quick.
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Dec 15, 2016 16:54
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I used deepwood scouts with swiftshiver arrows pretty much exclusively before the patch because they are vanguard, stalk and do a massive amount of damage. I'd just park my line of Dryads+Branchwraith+Durthu as close to the enemy army as possible, 4 units of the deepwood scouts and then two units of wild riders with shields and all but the toughest armies would break before my tree kin line even got to the fight because the approaching infantry would get shredded and then terrified by Durthu and any ranged would just get mowed down by the wild riders.sassassin posted:What's the earliest you can get the Lady in the Lake tech? Turn 17? It would be in the GC too if the different Beastmen stacks actually gave a poo poo about them instead of just going full tilt towards the forest or your nearest outpost. I found that whether I allied with them or conquered them I still had to keep at least one solid stack around to fend off the goats because the frenchies, while they do go to war with the Beastmen alongside you, aren't too keen on leaving their frilly little castles and actually fighting them and the Beastmen aren't going to siege a full stack with a 17 unit garrison 
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Dec 15, 2016 16:55
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Glade guard are just incredible bang for your buck. I'm not a huge fan of the deepwood scouts, though having said that the group I still have (started with) seem to rack up a whole bunch of kills even without the shards so I may be underestimating them. I still like to have a group of waywatchers around to focus on heavily armored things, and they are fantastic skirmishers against certain armies since they can shoot backwards while running away. Eternal guardians turn into good tarpit troops with shields and red line upgrades but I still like to have a few units of speardancers around to actually kill things. I haven't bothered much with the rangers but they may be more worthwhile since the hotfix buff. A unit of eagle riders is absolutely fantastic at messing with the AI. I've had half an AI army break away and chase them around for a while which can lead to some really great ambushing tactics hiding your main force in forests and/or using waywatchers and scouts. I'm still playing the mini campaign but wood elves already seem to have quite a bit more momentum than a lot of other factions. I actually thought other than a few minor tweaks they were good before the hotfix, now I'm starting to think they are a little too good. Glade guard spam is just extremely good and I think they probably shouldn't have gotten the +20 range that waywatchers got.
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Dec 15, 2016 16:59
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Ravenfood posted:Also, it is worth noting that the VC campaign can really drag on if the Dwarves win the war in the badlands while you're off playing Emperor. What also really makes it drag on is if Archaon or one of the other Chaos Lords makes a beeline for the Dwarves and they can never muster enough strength to put them down. Being all the way down in the lower-right corner by the badlands is a very difficult spot for VC to get to, and you'd really rather prefer to WoC to be dead so that people stop being allies.
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Dec 15, 2016 17:04
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When I play the VC I try to really help the greenskins and make sure they win so I don't have to deal with the badlands.
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Dec 15, 2016 17:07
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Chaos sure are lovely craftsmen, it takes them a dozen tries to bore out the eye holes in the correct spots on their helmets!
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Dec 15, 2016 17:13
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Xae posted:Yeah, but they're a pretty lovely buffer. They can't even stop the odd Beastman tribe or two from making it into The Forest. I want the beastman tribes flailing at me in the forest. It's free loot & xp. That said when I left my game last night two stacks were beseiging Carcassone and a third was sailing towards my western port, after burning down that Estalian town nearby (twice). So they don't feel too attracted to the forest to me.
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Dec 15, 2016 17:13
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Do we have a definitive "first dozen turns" for welfs yet for people who suck? Their playstyle is antithetical to mine in almost every way. Preferably one without "declare on the other welfs and try to ambush them" because I've never gotten that to work. Deified Data fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Dec 15, 2016 |
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Dec 15, 2016 18:18
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Boy, they are really struggling with balancing the wood elves. Honestly I think they didn't need these buffs as much as a tweak to the amber mechanic. Just keep the cost for Treemen and Forest Dragons but drop it for the other units. That and a way to recover amber like destroying your fortress level by level or undoing research. I dunno, analogy time I feel like they gave us heart medication for a broken arm.
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Dec 15, 2016 18:23
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Deified Data posted:How do you get the whole "go into ambush stance, declare on the welfs, and let them come to you" strategy to work when all their settlements are within sightline of each other and they're more than happy to just take out the Oak of Ages? Do you just sacrifice the Oak? Don't autoresolve any OoA fight. even if your garrison is hopelessly outnumbered the Oak of Ages map is one of the most easily defensible maps in the game and you can easily fight off twice the value of your garrison by using the chokepoints they give you. Edit: Worse comes to worse and your defense fails: They stepped away from their own garrison and weakened themselves fighting the oak. Finish crushing the army, set up siege on the enemy garrison, and rebuild the oak, level 1 costs no amber anyway, just a little bit of time and some money that you'll get from crushing the army and capturing their city. DeathSandwich fucked around with this message at 18:36 on Dec 15, 2016 |
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Dec 15, 2016 18:32
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Primo WE strat: Wait for Durthu/Orion to leave his house and then steal it.
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Dec 15, 2016 18:44
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fnordcircle posted:Boy, they are really struggling with balancing the wood elves. Honestly I think they didn't need these buffs as much as a tweak to the amber mechanic. Just keep the cost for Treemen and Forest Dragons but drop it for the other units. That and a way to recover amber like destroying your fortress level by level or undoing research. I dunno, analogy time I feel like they gave us heart medication for a broken arm. The penalty for having up to -10 amber is now "reduced replenishment", isn't that easy going enough? I don't know, I was fine with it before. RentACop posted:Primo WE strat: Wait for Durthu/Orion to leave his house and then steal it. Filthy kinslayer strat
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Dec 15, 2016 18:46
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sassassin posted:Filthy kinslayer strat Every WE faction seems horrible to each other and to the world at large. Durthu killing Orion and vice-versa makes a lot of sense, they kind of feel like each others' Empire Secessionists, the first easy conquest.
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Dec 15, 2016 18:49
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