Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Kitfox88
Aug 21, 2007

Anybody lose their glasses?
it owns that the largest backblast israel has seen yet hasn't been from bombing un workers but bombing workers belonging to an aid company ran by a guy who knows people in dc, real strong indicator of the power the rules based international order likes to flex

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Al-Saqr
Nov 11, 2007

One Day I Will Return To Your Side.
It's pretty clear at this point this is america and the white devils' war as much as it is israel and hamas is winning against them.

Clip-On Fedora
Feb 20, 2011

DiscountDildos posted:

https://x.com/ryangrim/status/1790080282810286235

Those doctors shouldn't have been HAMAS if they wanted to get out with their lives

They are traitors to FREEDOM and should be treated as such!!

Hatebag
Jun 17, 2008


the idf shoots aid workers and israeli citizens destroy aid for starving people during a genocide. a psychopathic country from top to bottom

bedpan
Apr 23, 2008

DiscountDildos posted:

https://x.com/ryangrim/status/1790080282810286235

Those doctors shouldn't have been HAMAS if they wanted to get out with their lives

State department "working around the clock" to help the Israelis blow up the UN driver.

Google Butt
Oct 4, 2005

Xenology is an unnatural mixture of science fiction and formal logic. At its core is a flawed assumption...

that an alien race would be psychologically human.

those doctors would be safer with Hamas just saying

bedpan
Apr 23, 2008

Google Butt posted:

those doctors would be safer with Hamas just saying

the driver might still be alive had they not coordinated with the US/Israeli, since what they coordinated was their own death

sleep with the vicious
Apr 2, 2010
Drumpf would have been worse so its actually ok

DesertIslandHermit
Oct 7, 2019

It's beautiful. And it's for the god of...of...arts and crafts. I think that's what he said.
The ‘Hamas was in the way’ argument really just faded out into ‘everyone is working for Hamas’ when it became apparent that the IDF were blasting holes into Lebanese houses and marked vans with the most absolute precision.

Sherbert Hoover
Dec 12, 2019

Working hard, thank you!
whatever happened to hezbollah doing something

HallelujahLee
May 3, 2009

they havent stopped like a few days ago they whacked a couple of israeli turds in some barracks

antipattern
Nov 8, 2019


how about you do something about it then, bitch

"urgent appeals" won't do poo poo

bedpan
Apr 23, 2008

sleep with the vicious posted:

Drumpf would have been worse so its actually ok

and this is the extent of the liberal/progressive critique: but Drumpf!

bedpan
Apr 23, 2008

antipattern posted:

how about you do something about it then, bitch

"urgent appeals" won't do poo poo

quote:

Secretary-General of the @UN

We will never, ever give up making this world better for everyone, everywhere.

old bitch isn't going to do a god damned thing

HallelujahLee
May 3, 2009

hes powerless the un by design is a worthless organization

ikanreed
Sep 25, 2009

I honestly I have no idea who cannibal[SIC] is and I do not know why I should know.

syq dude, just syq!

HallelujahLee posted:

hes powerless the un by design is a worthless organization

It'd work okay if you kicked the US and UK out.

HallelujahLee
May 3, 2009

ikanreed posted:

It'd work okay if you kicked the US and UK out.

add in germany, france and maybe

hubris.height
Jan 6, 2005

Pork Pro

Hatebag posted:

the idf shoots aid workers and israeli citizens destroy aid for starving people during a genocide. a psychopathic country from top to bottom

bedpan
Apr 23, 2008

Hatebag posted:

the idf shoots aid workers and israeli citizens destroy aid for starving people during a genocide. a psychopathic country from top to bottom

ahh but have you considered the situation is complicated, the problem complex, the solutions difficult, and the source of the grievance is 4000 years old????

Mister Bates
Aug 4, 2010
settler colonialism was always like this, the colonization of the Americas was like this, the Scramble for Africa was like this, and in that context the extreme indignation and anger the Israelis react with when being asked to stop makes a twisted kind of sense

it's monstrously evil but I do see the logic behind it - 'you got to do this, you got to keep all the spoils from doing it, the only reason the people on top of the current world order are there is because of the profits from doing exactly this, how dare you try to tell us late-comers we're not allowed to do it?' From the Israeli perspective it probably seems as nakedly hypocritical as the British Empire trying to keep the Germans from building a colonial empire in the 19th century - we are just doing what you are doing, why can we not claim our place in the sun? are we not white too?

it also gives the Western powers more reason to turn a blind eye to Israeli crimes and not think too hard about the implications there, because if what Israel is doing right now is wrong, if the Israeli settler project is immoral, then...what about everywhere else? what about the money and land we stole?

one of the cornerstones of the modern liberal world order was the idea that all of that stuff was in the past tense, that the era of might-makes-right brutality and naked exploitation of the periphery by the metropole was over. we live in more enlightened times now, and we need to leave the past in the past, move on, and go into the future together. now, that was a fiction, obviously, but it was a fiction that it has been pretty easy to maintain.

the Israelis bought into this fiction and it made them mad, because they missed out on the primitive accumulation buffet, so they have been tearing down all the facades and kicking over all the props and yelling in front of every camera that no, it's still on, the age of colonialism never ended, we are going to put the savages in their place and take their poo poo and we are right to because we are strong and they are weak, and you're all loving hypocrites if you try to stop us because you did it too.

that's really loving awkward if you're a polite enlightened Euro or American politician or intellectual, because your entire career up to this point has been constructing and maintaining the narrative that all that poo poo is over and done with and all necessary restitution for it has already been made and that we don't need to think about it anymore

I said come in!
Jun 22, 2004

Sherbert Hoover posted:

whatever happened to hezbollah doing something

western media isnt wanting to report on them because they have northern israel on lockdown still 7 months later.

Al-Saqr
Nov 11, 2007

One Day I Will Return To Your Side.
america pulls the mask off, no negotiations, no nothing.

they are a rabid dog that cannot be negotiated with, they live in a parralel universe of lies and evil that must be destroyed.

=============

‎Sullivan: US wants to defeat Hamas‎

‎U.S. National Security Advisor Jack Sullivan:‎

‎Sinwar violated the ceasefire and the United States wants to defeat Hamas‎

‎President Biden's position in favor of the two-state solution‎

‎We don't think that what is happening in Gaza is genocide.‎

‎We continue to believe that a major military operation in Rafah is a mistake.‎

‎The world must call on Hamas to return to the table and agree to the agreement‎

‎We are working tirelessly to reach a ceasefire and release the hostages, but we don't know when that will be achieved.‎
‎Active diplomacy by President Biden has accelerated aid entry‎
‎Israel Should Do All It Can Protect Innocent Civilians in Gaza‎

‎Negotiations have bumps and variables, and a ceasefire is possible tomorrow if Hamas releases the elderly hostages and women‎



https://www.aljazeera.net/news/live...?update=6537399

Al-Saqr
Nov 11, 2007

One Day I Will Return To Your Side.
Hamas pulled off another Anti-tank drone operation, absolute heros

================


‎A qualitative operation for the Qassam in the northern Gaza Strip‎

‎The ‎‎Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades‎‎, the military wing of the Islamic Resistance Movement (‎‎Hamas‎‎), said that its fighters managed to shoot a "Yassin 105" shell from a drone on a Merkava tank east of the Jabalia camp in the northern Gaza Strip.‎

https://www.aljazeera.net/news/live...?update=6537399

HallelujahLee
May 3, 2009

yeah yeah yeah hamas has to give up all its leverage so they can be destroyed blah blah

not even regular liberal losers are falling for this anymore

Sancho Banana
Aug 4, 2023

Not to be confused with meat.

Mister Bates posted:

settler colonialism was always like this, the colonization of the Americas was like this, the Scramble for Africa was like this, and in that context the extreme indignation and anger the Israelis react with when being asked to stop makes a twisted kind of sense

it's monstrously evil but I do see the logic behind it - 'you got to do this, you got to keep all the spoils from doing it, the only reason the people on top of the current world order are there is because of the profits from doing exactly this, how dare you try to tell us late-comers we're not allowed to do it?' From the Israeli perspective it probably seems as nakedly hypocritical as the British Empire trying to keep the Germans from building a colonial empire in the 19th century - we are just doing what you are doing, why can we not claim our place in the sun? are we not white too?

it also gives the Western powers more reason to turn a blind eye to Israeli crimes and not think too hard about the implications there, because if what Israel is doing right now is wrong, if the Israeli settler project is immoral, then...what about everywhere else? what about the money and land we stole?

one of the cornerstones of the modern liberal world order was the idea that all of that stuff was in the past tense, that the era of might-makes-right brutality and naked exploitation of the periphery by the metropole was over. we live in more enlightened times now, and we need to leave the past in the past, move on, and go into the future together. now, that was a fiction, obviously, but it was a fiction that it has been pretty easy to maintain.

the Israelis bought into this fiction and it made them mad, because they missed out on the primitive accumulation buffet, so they have been tearing down all the facades and kicking over all the props and yelling in front of every camera that no, it's still on, the age of colonialism never ended, we are going to put the savages in their place and take their poo poo and we are right to because we are strong and they are weak, and you're all loving hypocrites if you try to stop us because you did it too.

that's really loving awkward if you're a polite enlightened Euro or American politician or intellectual, because your entire career up to this point has been constructing and maintaining the narrative that all that poo poo is over and done with and all necessary restitution for it has already been made and that we don't need to think about it anymore

Israelis make these frustrations very explicit when they call out Americans protesting Israeli settler colonialism by saying "but your land is stolen too! Hypocrite much?" It doesn't take a genius to figure out that most of those American protestors would completely agree with that statement, but it's not really about hypocrisy. Israelis are mad that people won't just "move on" from the Nakba the same way we've "moved on" from other American and European crimes against humanity.

bedpan
Apr 23, 2008

Sancho Banana posted:

Israelis make these frustrations very explicit when they call out Americans protesting Israeli settler colonialism by saying "but your land is stolen too! Hypocrite much?" It doesn't take a genius to figure out that most of those American protestors would completely agree with that statement, but it's not really about hypocrisy. Israelis are mad that people won't just "move on" from the Nakba the same way we've "moved on" from other American and European crimes against humanity.

they are also mad that palestinians won't just "move on" to being Egyptians or Jordanians

Pookah
Aug 21, 2008

🪶Caw🪶





If mental gymnastics were an Olympic sport, Israel would take gold every drat time.

Zodium
Jun 19, 2004

Mister Bates posted:

settler colonialism was always like this, the colonization of the Americas was like this, the Scramble for Africa was like this, and in that context the extreme indignation and anger the Israelis react with when being asked to stop makes a twisted kind of sense

it's monstrously evil but I do see the logic behind it - 'you got to do this, you got to keep all the spoils from doing it, the only reason the people on top of the current world order are there is because of the profits from doing exactly this, how dare you try to tell us late-comers we're not allowed to do it?' From the Israeli perspective it probably seems as nakedly hypocritical as the British Empire trying to keep the Germans from building a colonial empire in the 19th century - we are just doing what you are doing, why can we not claim our place in the sun? are we not white too?

it also gives the Western powers more reason to turn a blind eye to Israeli crimes and not think too hard about the implications there, because if what Israel is doing right now is wrong, if the Israeli settler project is immoral, then...what about everywhere else? what about the money and land we stole?

one of the cornerstones of the modern liberal world order was the idea that all of that stuff was in the past tense, that the era of might-makes-right brutality and naked exploitation of the periphery by the metropole was over. we live in more enlightened times now, and we need to leave the past in the past, move on, and go into the future together. now, that was a fiction, obviously, but it was a fiction that it has been pretty easy to maintain.

the Israelis bought into this fiction and it made them mad, because they missed out on the primitive accumulation buffet, so they have been tearing down all the facades and kicking over all the props and yelling in front of every camera that no, it's still on, the age of colonialism never ended, we are going to put the savages in their place and take their poo poo and we are right to because we are strong and they are weak, and you're all loving hypocrites if you try to stop us because you did it too.

that's really loving awkward if you're a polite enlightened Euro or American politician or intellectual, because your entire career up to this point has been constructing and maintaining the narrative that all that poo poo is over and done with and all necessary restitution for it has already been made and that we don't need to think about it anymore

i've heard this argued from the other end, i.e., "if what israel is doing is so wrong, are you going to give up your material comforts from our colonialism?" can't say to what extent it applies to israelis.

I said come in!
Jun 22, 2004

Would we actually even have to give up anything at all in the process of giving up colonialism? It seems like we actually wouldn't if we were to do it today in the year 2024. not only would our lives be comfortable, arguably even more so, but so would the rest of the world. Colonialism is only ever destructive and even hurts most people that live under it as its citizens. Only the ruling elite class benefits from colonialism.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Noise Complaint
Sep 27, 2004

Who could be scared of a Jeffrey?
https://twitter.com/Sapir_SLAM/status/1790049348065055039






A country filled with rabid dogs.

DAD LOST MY IPOD
Feb 3, 2012

Fats Dominar is on the case


I think that’s a difficult and thorny question to untangle (how do you calculate reparations? who pays them? to whom?) but it’s chiefly difficult because the people who did the mass murdering and enslaving are by and large dead, whereas Israelis are doing it right now. the moral question is a lot less complicated!

Grilled Beef
Oct 27, 2023

I said come in! posted:

Would we actually even have to give up anything at all in the process of giving up colonialism? It seems like we actually wouldn't if we were to do it today in the year 2024. not only would our lives be comfortable, arguably even more so, but so would the rest of the world. Colonialism is only ever destructive and even hurts most people that live under it as its citizens. Only the ruling elite class benefits from colonialism.

you’d lose quite a bit, assuming you live in America.

At its simplest, we would be talking mass land reform across four and a half continents, breaking up the present ownership and enforcement laws. That sort of wealth redistribution would upend wages, the poor who presently live there would now need to be paid much more to do the same work now. So textiles, food, etc would all see a huge jump in price.


that’s the easiest level of decolonization, breaking up the remnants of the old plantation systems. if you want to start getting into mineral rights or reparations, and the second order effects of all that capital coming in for development rather than extraction, you get even more changes.

it should be done, but don’t imagine for a second it would not smash the present American standard of living into something unrecognizable. I think something better, once you get 20-30 years out, but in the short term, we aren’t even talking like shortages of treats like coffee and chocolate, we are talking like staples like beef and rice

Fat-Lip-Sum-41.mp3
Nov 15, 2003
Call me crazy but I think it can be done without causing a famine.

Zodium
Jun 19, 2004

I said come in! posted:

Would we actually even have to give up anything at all in the process of giving up colonialism? It seems like we actually wouldn't if we were to do it today in the year 2024. not only would our lives be comfortable, arguably even more so, but so would the rest of the world. Colonialism is only ever destructive and even hurts most people that live under it as its citizens. Only the ruling elite class benefits from colonialism.

is this a bit

if you're american you would have to move back to england.

Animal-Mother
Feb 14, 2012

RABBIT RABBIT
RABBIT RABBIT

Mister Bates posted:

settler colonialism was always like this, the colonization of the Americas was like this, the Scramble for Africa was like this, and in that context the extreme indignation and anger the Israelis react with when being asked to stop makes a twisted kind of sense

it's monstrously evil but I do see the logic behind it - 'you got to do this, you got to keep all the spoils from doing it, the only reason the people on top of the current world order are there is because of the profits from doing exactly this, how dare you try to tell us late-comers we're not allowed to do it?' From the Israeli perspective it probably seems as nakedly hypocritical as the British Empire trying to keep the Germans from building a colonial empire in the 19th century - we are just doing what you are doing, why can we not claim our place in the sun? are we not white too?

it also gives the Western powers more reason to turn a blind eye to Israeli crimes and not think too hard about the implications there, because if what Israel is doing right now is wrong, if the Israeli settler project is immoral, then...what about everywhere else? what about the money and land we stole?

one of the cornerstones of the modern liberal world order was the idea that all of that stuff was in the past tense, that the era of might-makes-right brutality and naked exploitation of the periphery by the metropole was over. we live in more enlightened times now, and we need to leave the past in the past, move on, and go into the future together. now, that was a fiction, obviously, but it was a fiction that it has been pretty easy to maintain.

the Israelis bought into this fiction and it made them mad, because they missed out on the primitive accumulation buffet, so they have been tearing down all the facades and kicking over all the props and yelling in front of every camera that no, it's still on, the age of colonialism never ended, we are going to put the savages in their place and take their poo poo and we are right to because we are strong and they are weak, and you're all loving hypocrites if you try to stop us because you did it too.

that's really loving awkward if you're a polite enlightened Euro or American politician or intellectual, because your entire career up to this point has been constructing and maintaining the narrative that all that poo poo is over and done with and all necessary restitution for it has already been made and that we don't need to think about it anymore

Thank you for articulating this.

Shageletic
Jul 25, 2007

How is it difficult tho? Oppressed people are owed monetary restitution? Sure. They want their land back that they lived on for centuries? Hell yeah I sure don't have it.

StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

Yeah there's a massive scale between "pay some reparations to native tribes" and "literally pack 300 million Americans back to Europe." But honestly like we want Israel to stop murdering Palestinians and stealing their poo poo, tear down discriminatory laws, and recognize them as fellow citizens of a multi ethnic nation. America et al have sort of done some of this and the rest of what we're asking we should also do!

Zodium
Jun 19, 2004

then it's settled. the palestinians will get equal rights and the americans will go back to england.

boo boo bear
Oct 1, 2009

I'm COMPLETELY OBSESSED with SEXY EGGS
I've always interpreted #landback as free hold leases and by extension more affordable housing, no need to displace people

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Spergin Morlock
Aug 8, 2009

Al-Saqr posted:

apparently the walking pig squealer lindsey graham just called for Gaza to be nuked and Hamas is condeming that insane statement

====

Hamas: We condemn Graham's statements about the occupation hitting Gaza with a nuclear bomb

Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas):

The shocking statements, in which Senator Lindsey Graham suggested that the fascist occupation strike Gaza with a nuclear bomb, demonstrate the depth of the moral fall it reached.

We condemn these calls and positions that come in the context of offering the loyalties to the fascist occupation, and that make their owners partners in the war of extermination.

https://www.aljazeera.net/news/live...31583;&%231610;

in a sane world lindsey graham would have been put down like a rabid dog decades ago.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply