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Is it possible at all that they intentionally put together a terrible PPV for Souled Out to cool down some of the fans who wanted to see NWO get rid of WCW?
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Jun 12, 2015 21:28
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fun fact, Eric Bischoff fired Ole Anderson over the phone. After meeting with him in person.
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Jun 12, 2015 21:37
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dsriggs posted:Is it possible at all that they intentionally put together a terrible PPV for Souled Out to cool down some of the fans who wanted to see NWO get rid of WCW? God I hope that's the case, it's perfect WCW
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Jun 12, 2015 21:50
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dsriggs posted:Is it possible at all that they intentionally put together a terrible PPV for Souled Out to cool down some of the fans who wanted to see NWO get rid of WCW?
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Jun 12, 2015 22:00
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coconono posted:fun fact, Eric Bischoff fired Ole Anderson over the phone. After meeting with him in person. Ole had it coming, he's a turd
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Jun 12, 2015 23:30
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coconono posted:fun fact, Eric Bischoff fired Ole Anderson over the phone. After meeting with him in person. Yeah, I heard that from Jim Cornette this week. The story cracked me up.
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Jun 12, 2015 23:35
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I support the firing of Ole Anderson from all posts other than Grand Imperial Wizard.
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Jun 13, 2015 00:29
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dsriggs posted:Is it possible at all that they intentionally put together a terrible PPV for Souled Out to cool down some of the fans who wanted to see NWO get rid of WCW? According to death of wcw eric was banking on the first souled out to make huge numbers so he could run more pay-per views monthly but it did average numbers. It was really god awful. After that disappointment they cooled on the idea until the last nitro before starrcade '97. When that show dipped 2 points(?) in the ratings they dropped the idea entirely. Overall the point was to have 2 seperate shows; an NWO one and a WCW one. Plus they thought souled out '97 was a show fans wanted to pay for.
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Jun 13, 2015 00:33
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In retrospect Souled Out '97 was probably the first sign of things going horribly wrong.
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Jun 13, 2015 00:56
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I think Souled Out could have worked if they didn't have Nick Patrick join the group. It should have been the nWo going in overconfident but actually taking some losses, maybe Hogan only barely manages to retain, give the audience some hope before crushing them again at Slamboree or GAB or something. But to do that you'd have to have a ref willing to call matches fairly. I do kind of have to admire that it's one of the few PPVs ever that existed for "story" reasons- it was "this rogue group is hosting their own show"- and tried to have its own look and feel, but the execution failed on so many levels.
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Jun 13, 2015 04:48
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Maxwell Lord posted:I think Souled Out could have worked if they didn't have Nick Patrick join the group. It should have been the nWo going in overconfident but actually taking some losses, maybe Hogan only barely manages to retain, give the audience some hope before crushing them again at Slamboree or GAB or something. On paper at least that's exactly what happened. The NWO did win some matches, but other than Bagwell going over his old tag partner they were meaningless squashes. On the WCW side Eddy and the Steiners beat the Outsiders and Syxx for the US and Tag belts, DDP became the first guy approached by the NWO to turn them down and left through the crowd to a massive ovation, Mongo helped Jarret get a win to show he wasn't caving to NWO intimidation, and Giant was booked as if he utterly outclassed Hogan it took the entire NWO plus Bischoff as the heel authority figure to stop him from winning. Commentary also mentioned Randy Savage being blackballed by the NWO several times to explain his absence. Also lots of Sting chants, and Bischoff's big "WELL YOU'RE NOT GONNA GET STING!" to close the show. Obviously the show itself was a train wreck at every step, most of the commentary AND in-ring work was awful, and as you said the heel referee was the main culprit in ruining everything. But if you just look at the match results it seems like they were trying to do exactly what you're saying and set up a slew of anti-NWO WCW heroes for everyone to cheer for.
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Jun 13, 2015 07:32
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Maxwell Lord posted:I think Souled Out could have worked if they didn't have Nick Patrick join the group. The whole concept of the heel stable having a bent ref in their pocket only works if the heels aren't supposed to be cool or threatening, which is everything the nWo was supposed to be. Yoy have Hulk Hogan and the Outsiders leading this group and they have to be handed wins by a crooked official -- what's scary about the nWo after that happens?
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Jun 13, 2015 08:21
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DynamiteKidd posted:The whole concept of the heel stable having a bent ref in their pocket only works if the heels aren't supposed to be cool or threatening, which is everything the nWo was supposed to be. Yoy have Hulk Hogan and the Outsiders leading this group and they have to be handed wins by a crooked official -- what's scary about the nWo after that happens? Wasn't the entire crux of The Rock and Chris Jericho during their heel runs that they were among the best wrestlers in the company and could easily win matches (unless they were taking on the best of the best, such as Stone Cold or Undertaker) clean but preferred to cheat, walk out on opponents, and do other dastardly heel things out of laziness, arrogance or greed?
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Jun 13, 2015 08:46
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No, not at all, especially Jericho. You could argue it for 2003 Hollywood Rock, but 97-99 Rock needed constant interference to keep his belt I think he had one clean pinfall defense in a 5 month IC reign
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Jun 13, 2015 09:17
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There was a heavily repeated rumor on rspw that when people called to buy tickets and order ppv for Souled Out, they were turned away because the person on the other end of the call didn't realize that they meant Souled Out and not sold out.
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Jun 13, 2015 15:06
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Rusty Shackelford posted:There was a heavily repeated rumor on rspw that when people called to buy tickets and order ppv for Souled Out, they were turned away because the person on the other end of the call didn't realize that they meant Souled Out and not sold out. That seems a little dubious to me because WCW did Souled Out for three more years afterwards and I've not heard of it having disappointing gates or buyrates every year. I guess it's possible that this may have only applied to the first Souled Out event, but... And now that you mention it I have no idea why they called it Souled Out in the first place or what that has to do with the nWo at all. I thought the gimmick was that they were middle aged biker/gangbangers
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Jun 13, 2015 19:15
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DynamiteKidd posted:That seems a little dubious to me because WCW did Souled Out for three more years afterwards and I've not heard of it having disappointing gates or buyrates every year. I guess it's possible that this may have only applied to the first Souled Out event, but... Alongside "egomaniac" and "middle-aged man desperately clinging to the spectre of his youth," "blindly persistent" is a pretty apt descriptor for Eric Bischoff. Massive, repeated failure never discouraged late-90s WCW from making the same mistake over, and over, and over again. See also: Vince Russo.
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Jun 14, 2015 01:36
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On the "crooked refs" thing. I always thought it was cool that Scott Steiner brought his own ref, because all the real ones were scared to be in the ring with him. Which in true WCW form, was based on real life. There was one cool match with Goldberg, (I think?), where Goldberg clearly had Scotty down for the three, but the ref wouldn't count it, not because he was crooked, but because he too was scared shitless of the Big Bad Booty Daddy's wrath. Goldberg then beats up the ref, and gets disqualified or something.
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Jun 14, 2015 05:16
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Scott Steiner just going out and shooting whenever he wanted because everyone was too afraid to tell him he's going over time or off script is like, the greatest and most WCW thing. He tried to kill DDP!
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Jun 14, 2015 05:23
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"What's that feeling? Oh, Scott's trying to *pull out my eye*."
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Jun 14, 2015 06:23
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There's one promo where Scott is just going and going and cursing more and more and you can see Buff Bagwell in the ring with him looking visibly uncomfortable and trying to get the mic away from him to end the drat segment the longer it goes. It's fantastic.
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Jun 14, 2015 06:32
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Luigi Thirty posted:Scott Steiner just going out and shooting whenever he wanted because everyone was too afraid to tell him he's going over time or off script is like, the greatest and most WCW thing. He tried to kill DDP! I love the long-winded rant against Ric Flair because Steiner was incredibly coherent throughout, much more than he ever was before or since.
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Jun 14, 2015 06:45
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Jun 17, 2015 00:22
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Like?
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Jun 17, 2015 00:26
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Was Bischoff at WCW when they put the belt on David Arquette during the triple cage match?
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Jun 17, 2015 00:32
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1st AD posted:Was Bischoff at WCW when they put the belt on David Arquette during the triple cage match? Bischoff was the guy Arquette pinned in the tag match where he won the belt. Arquette then turned heel in the triple cage match to let Jeff Jarrett win it back.
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Jun 17, 2015 00:36
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It's funnier because in early 96 Bischoff decided building feuds was dead and the only way to draw on PPV was crazy gimmick matches. This is one of the reasons the Doomsday Cage happened. WCW Nitro returns to Tuesdays tonight! Tune in for NWO NIGHTCAP Eric Bischoff's late night talk show will be on the air, are you ready for it? We've been waiting MONTHS for this! You'll also see: MONGO VS SICK BOY Yuji Nagata vs Saturn Sting and Nash vs Hall and Giant for the Tag Titles The Dancing Fools vs Muta and Tenzan TOKYO MAGNUM VS ULTIMO DRAGON Hennig vs Luger Hart vs DDP AND SO MUCH MORE (including Flapjack Norton) Tune in at 7:30 for the preshow, 8 PM for Nitro and stay tuned after Nitro for a special documentary on SATAN! http://www.psp-tv.com/r/BadMoviesWorseWrestling
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Jun 17, 2015 00:48
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Jun 17, 2015 00:51
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I had to restrain myself from throwing things at my monitor. Jesus Christ, Eric. We all still remember when you were in charge. Shut the gently caress up.
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Jun 17, 2015 03:35
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Abrasive Obelisk posted:Like? He tweeted that after Dixie announced TNA's bringing back King of the Mountain for Slammiversary to make up for the fact they won't have a world title match main eventing
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Jun 17, 2015 03:42
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Chris James 2 posted:He tweeted that after Dixie announced TNA's bringing back King of the Mountain for Slammiversary to make up for the fact they won't have a world title match main eventing You know, isn't the gimmick of KotM that you have to grab a BELT and hang it up? What's the match for, the X title?
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Jun 17, 2015 04:24
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DynamiteKidd posted:You know, isn't the gimmick of KotM that you have to grab a BELT and hang it up? What's the match for, the X title? Ultimate X
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Jun 17, 2015 04:29
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MassRafTer posted:It's funnier because in early 96 Bischoff decided building feuds was dead and the only way to draw on PPV was crazy gimmick matches. This is one of the reasons the Doomsday Cage happened. Short of Uncensored, I don't really remember any crazy gimmick matches in WCW in '96. And gently caress, even the Uncensored match had a semblance of a build, and not "lets throw it on a PPV because we can't do our world title match" I mean I guess War Games and World War III were crazy gimmick matches, but War Games owned.
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Jun 17, 2015 04:56
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ayn rand hand job posted:Short of Uncensored, I don't really remember any crazy gimmick matches in WCW in '96. And gently caress, even the Uncensored match had a semblance of a build, and not "lets throw it on a PPV because we can't do our world title match" They did a double cage deal on Superbrawl where the entire draw was blood, then Uncensored which was all gimmick matches and followed it up by Slamboree which was centered on Battlebowl. They were really into centering PPVs on gimmicks, it was an intentional direction.
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Jun 17, 2015 05:01
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WCW also couldn't sell PPVs on title matches because they gave away title matches constantly on Nitro.
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Jun 17, 2015 05:38
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Who booked the Junkyard Invitational?quote:WCW had a bad habit for going overboard with gimmicks. None was more costly to their wrestlers health than the 1999 Junkyard Invitational at Bash at the Beach. And so a lot of WCW Hardcore wrestlers had a massive brawl in a junkyard, with the winner being whoever could escape first. A few wrestlers left the match with legitimate injuries. The match started off with everyone in a big circle of cars, then just degenerated from there. It was dark and hard to see what was going on and the action had seemingly no structure. A helicopter camera didn’t really make things any clearer. It also didn’t help that they kept cutting away as moves were actually happening. Cars were tipped over, people were electrocuted, things blew up. It was absolute mayhem, and not the entertaining type. Keep in mind that this was on their big summer Pay Per View. The live audience for Bash at the Beach would have had to watch this all on a big screen. Fit Finley eventually left the Junkyard unchallenged to win the match. But the definite highlight was Bobby Heenan’s commentary.
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Jun 17, 2015 05:48
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nWo Nightcap is worse than anything I could have possibly imagined. Oh my god did that eMale Karate Man ego stroking die a loving death.
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Jun 17, 2015 06:07
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Luigi Thirty posted:nWo Nightcap is worse than anything I could have possibly imagined. Oh my god did that eMale Karate Man ego stroking die a loving death. And we have this to look forward to for three or four more Nitros. And they probably replayed it all the time on Thunder (as if seeing it four times on Nitro wasn't enough) EDIT: Incidentally the HArdcore Invitational is perhaps the worst match ever by sheer volume. It was shot in the loving dark so you couldn't see anything and guys were getting injured doing unprotected spots that entertained nobody because of this. DynamiteKidd fucked around with this message at 06:16 on Jun 17, 2015 |
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Jun 17, 2015 06:13
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Say Nothing posted:Who booked the Junkyard Invitational? It was Summer '99, Russo, so Bischoff was still technically the head, but it was probably Sullivan with the book. Might be a good question for Dave. MassRafTer posted:They did a double cage deal on Superbrawl where the entire draw was blood, then Uncensored which was all gimmick matches and followed it up by Slamboree which was centered on Battlebowl. They were really into centering PPVs on gimmicks, it was an intentional direction. Flair beat Savage by outside interference at Starrcade for the title, and Hogan and The Giant had been feuding since Fall Brawl and it was the payoff to that build. Having a double main event for cage matches for contentious feuds doesn't really strike me as building with gimmicks only, and no feud. Uncensored had actual feuds going into the matches IIRC. Battlebowl was pretty bad and I'll give you that.
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Jun 17, 2015 13:07
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Was Bischoff around for that Monster Truck on a building match?
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Jun 17, 2015 13:30
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