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repiv posted:well there's potentially avoiding hardware raytracing, depending on which lumen mode they use But then you're on the even slower software fallback. If you have any kind of hardware acceleration, Lumen wants to use it. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 11:17 on Oct 20, 2022 |
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Oct 20, 2022 11:12
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the software mode can be faster, in my experience playing around in the editor that can be the case even on ampere the trade-off is image quality, software lumen traces a rough blobby approximation of the scene rather than exact triangle tracing it's especially obvious in reflections, hence why the matrix demo uses hardware mode
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Oct 20, 2022 11:14
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Lumen's software mode will be faster than the hardware mode overall, but that's because it's tracing fewer rays. Per ray traced, HW acceleration is faster, so the actual way to get best performance on RDNA2 would be to use a similar ray count to the SW mode but in HW.
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Oct 20, 2022 11:18
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i haven't seen anything to suggest software lumen traces fewer rays at the same quality setting  if software mode were tracing against a triangle BVH then it would be glacially slow at the same ray counts yes, but that's not what it does. it traces a signed distance field instead. repiv fucked around with this message at 11:28 on Oct 20, 2022 |
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Oct 20, 2022 11:23
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https://twitter.com/Fearian/status/...s1_c10&ref_url= Interesting if the S ends up being a major pain point for console devs
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Oct 20, 2022 11:38
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It is a major pain point, I've posted in this thread before that the series s memory isn't just a smaller amount, it is less than half the speed of its bigger x cousin. X has 16GB of memory running at 560GB/s, S has 10GB of memory running at 224GB/s. That is a huge gap and multiplatform games all have to bow down to it. The series s is stifling games in a not-insignificant way as they have to be designed for the lowest common denominator. edit: actually it's even worse, 2 of that 10GB of series s memory runs at a mere 56GB/s. The console is gimped
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Oct 20, 2022 11:41
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How bad could it be to have to design for the Series S if a lot of these games are also still cross-generation to the PS4 and the XBox One?
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Oct 20, 2022 11:45
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it's not much of an issue for cross-gen games but we're seeing the end of those right now metro exodus enhanced is a pretty funny case on the series s, it runs at less than 1080p and sometimes drops down to 540p
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Oct 20, 2022 12:02
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that guy protected his twitter account, did the console warriors find himlih posted:metro exodus enhanced is a pretty funny case on the series s, it runs at less than 1080p and sometimes drops down to 540p to its credit that's at 60fps at least, and it's temporally upscaled
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Oct 20, 2022 12:02
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yeah lol
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Oct 20, 2022 12:03
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What was the tweet?
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Oct 20, 2022 12:05
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Basically saying the Series S is an albatross for gamdevs and they don't want to support it
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Oct 20, 2022 12:07
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paraphrasing: game developer saying the Series S is a major roadblock, and studios are desperate to release only on the Series X if Microsoft would let them
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Oct 20, 2022 12:07
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I wonder if that's going to push devs to release PS5 exclusives just so they don't have to develop for the S. Microsoft doesn't let you do Series X only, do they? edit: Yeah, they don't allow that. I've been wondering why the SH2 remake was announced as PS5/PC-only, and the easy answer would be that Sony paid for console exclusivity, but I wonder if dodging the Series S was a consideration. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 12:14 on Oct 20, 2022 |
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Oct 20, 2022 12:11
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to Microsoft's point I can sort of see why they'd want to keep it: 300 bucks and a Game Pass sub is a LOT of gaming for a relatively small up-front investment, and I imagine (though this is speculation) that there's a market segment that the S has managed to tap
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Oct 20, 2022 12:12
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Lol gotham Knights sounds like a dumpster fire https://youtu.be/aFN7RsHrZr4 quote:This analysis has been performed with the latest patch released on October 20.
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Oct 20, 2022 12:13
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 https://twitter.com/VideoCardz/status/1583025417501696001 Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:I wonder if that's going to push devs to release PS5 exclusives just so they don't have to develop for the S. Microsoft doesn't let you do Series X only, do they? microsoft requires games to run on both systems yeah, at least for now maybe they'll eventually come up with a compromise like making the Series S version of a game stream from a cloud Series X instance, for games that really really aren't viable on the Series S otherwise
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Oct 20, 2022 12:14
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ah that would be that rumoured titan aka "the beast" that kopite recently confirmed would not be seeing a release. i understand why the series s exists but the developer frustrations are very understandable - especially the ram, like that seems like a problem compared to even an average mid-range gaming pc from 6 years ago. microsoft said they made the series s because they didn't expect they'd be able to do a mid-gen price cut like they'd previously been able to & obviously it's an extremely good value option with game pass as-is
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Oct 20, 2022 12:21
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Does anyone do ultrawide benchmark comparisons? It's a little iffy trying to guestimate relative performance between 1440p and 4K charts and I'd like to switch my brain off.
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Oct 20, 2022 12:21
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ijyt posted:Does anyone do ultrawide benchmark comparisons? It's a little iffy trying to guestimate relative performance between 1440p and 4K charts and I'd like to switch my brain off. A few years ago when I was still on my old-rear end 32-inch ultrawide, I was interpolating ultrawide benchmark results by counting pixels. 1440p 16:9 is 3686400, 4k 16:9 is 8294400. multiply your desired monitor resolution and you can sort of linearly approximate where along the scale you'll fall. It's not perfect, but it's better than nothing.
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Oct 20, 2022 12:39
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the main thing is that rdna2 scales to higher resolutions worse than ampere (& arc scales to higher resolutions better than ampere but that's not relevant here)
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Oct 20, 2022 12:42
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lih posted:the main thing is that rdna2 scales to higher resolutions worse than ampere (& arc scales to higher resolutions better than ampere but that's not relevant here) Technically true but its not a significant at anything less than 4k resolution. Even at 4k resolution you're going to be using FSR/DLSS whenever you can to get the fps up anyways. Otherwise the drop in fps for new games for pure rasterization at 4k is pretty huge no matter what short of using a 4090 right now anyways.
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Oct 20, 2022 13:14
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yeah, i'm playing on a 6900xt at 1440p and most games where i'd care about framerats (and even many where i dont) float around 160fps on my 165hz screen lol
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Oct 20, 2022 13:26
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SwissArmyDruid posted:A few years ago when I was still on my old-rear end 32-inch ultrawide, I was interpolating ultrawide benchmark results by counting pixels. 1440p 16:9 is 3686400, 4k 16:9 is 8294400. multiply your desired monitor resolution and you can sort of linearly approximate where along the scale you'll fall. This isn't very brain-off behaviour!! But it's definitely better than my dartboard guessing so I'll give that a shot, cheers for the tip.
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Oct 20, 2022 13:29
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lih posted:i understand why the series s exists but the developer frustrations are very understandable - especially the ram, like that seems like a problem compared to even an average mid-range gaming pc from 6 years ago. I'd like to hear more detail from gamedevs, who probably can't talk about it, but on paper by looking at TeraFLOPs and bandwidth, it doesn't look like the Series S is particularly bandwidth starved. It has similar FLOPs to a GTX 1060 or RX 470, actually a bit less than either, while having more memory bandwidth than both of those GPUs, and more total VRAM available too, 8GB of the fast stuff. The series S is basically a midrange gaming PC from 2016, using modern processes to use only 80W under gaming loads and sold for dirt cheap. I've seen it at $250 bundled with 2 controllers, which basically makes it a $150 game box. Because the Series S has a full 8C/16T Zen 2 CPU and full speed nvme SSD, it seems to me like you'd be able to make stuff run on it just by slamming that resolution down. Switch games get under 720p all the time under load, and a ton of Xbox One games were 720p by the end of the generation. I don't know why there's all the teeth gnashed by devs about the Series S limiting games when it has plenty of GPU, storage, and storage speed: just slam that res down to 640p and it'll run anything! The Matrix demo was super impressive and got onto the series S by running at 533 vertical lines of resolution. If you want more pixels, buy the bigger box, but I don't see how low res prevents a game from trying ambitious graphics techniques. If you're looking for a PC to compare the Series S to, it's a GTX 1060 with 8GB VRAM and a Ryzen 3800X that's been moderately underclocked.
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Oct 20, 2022 13:30
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ijyt posted:This isn't very brain-off behaviour!! if you just remember that 1440p is about twice the pixels of 1080p and, 4k is twice 1440p, it's not so bad. but also, the perf hit isn't really linear with pixels these days or, you might even hit a vram issue in a modern game on an 6GB gpu and 4k, for example, and then the scaling is way more than linear 
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Oct 20, 2022 13:31
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Twerk from Home posted:I'd like to hear more detail from gamedevs, who probably can't talk about it, but on paper by looking at TeraFLOPs and bandwidth, it doesn't look like the Series S is particularly bandwidth starved. Because running games at that low of a resolution looks utterly horrible and nobody wants to do that.
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Oct 20, 2022 13:33
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Because running games at that low of a resolution looks utterly horrible and nobody wants to do that. I think that dropping resolution to under 720p is preferable to a lot of what actually has been shipping over the last few years: https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfoundry-2019-control-console-face-off posted:Both PlayStation 4 and Xbox One can see prolonged frame-rate drops in sustained combat, dropping all the way down to 10 frames per second at its absolute worst. Perhaps surprisingly, it's the PS4 that drops hardest and longest, making it noticeably the least performant version of the game. Control shipped in a state where it was under 30FPS most of the time, dropping into the teens in combat, and I bet that people absolutely would have preferred lower resolution instead. I guess that what I'm getting at is that you can't get around a CPU bottleneck, which is what kept most last-gen games 30FPS on the consoles. The new consoles, including the Series S, have plenty of CPU power, so you can ship anything on the Series S by just cutting resolution. We're talking about game developers wanting to not launch a game on Series S at all. Is it better that a game doesn't get released, or gets released and runs at 540P? Edit: given that the same game is running well and looking good on the PS5 / Series X / PCs. Twerk from Home fucked around with this message at 13:47 on Oct 20, 2022 |
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Oct 20, 2022 13:44
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The memory bandwidth of the S console seems like it's biggest issue based on posts upthread
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Oct 20, 2022 13:52
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Twerk from Home posted:I'd like to hear more detail from gamedevs, who probably can't talk about it, but on paper by looking at TeraFLOPs and bandwidth, it doesn't look like the Series S is particularly bandwidth starved. you're forgetting it has to share the RAM with the CPU, like 2GB for the CPU is nothing and the bandwidth is tiny for that portion lih fucked around with this message at 14:00 on Oct 20, 2022 |
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Oct 20, 2022 13:56
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lih posted:you're forgetting it has to share the RAM with the CPU which makes the effective VRAM gap even bigger, since CPU-side RAM usage is mostly constant regardless of settings if the CPU needs to allocate say, 5GB, then the 16GB on the XSX and 10GB on the XSS turns into 11GB and 5GB effective VRAM, a huge difference
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Oct 20, 2022 14:02
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hobbesmaster posted:You mean as a second, extra GPU? Can you not just pass through the entire IOMMU group and the gpu wouldn’t care? I could definitely pass through the whole GPU as one group and it would work fine (already doing so with Nvidia hardware), but I'm looking for a solution where a single physical GPU can be shared between multiple VMs at the same time. Nvidia's solution is vGPU, AMD is MxGPU (but they also support SR-IOV afaik on the Radeon Pro line), and Intel previously used GVT-g but now supports SRIOV on Xe iGPUs. What I haven't been able to confirm is whether Arc (also Xe-based) dGPUs also support SR-IOV. Time will tell I guess
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Oct 20, 2022 14:31
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shrike82 posted:are there any games that perform better on >16GB RAM these days? I think MSFS likes RAM
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Oct 20, 2022 14:33
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shrike82 posted:Lol gotham Knights sounds like a dumpster fire lol  this game was originally supposed to ship on the PS4 and XB1, they cut the older generation and still missed their meagre 30fps target on the newer gen
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Oct 20, 2022 15:08
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repiv posted:lol That whole video is savage toward the game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6Vno8r4cN8 I want to see the PC version.
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Oct 20, 2022 15:20
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repiv posted:lol Good Luck!
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Oct 20, 2022 15:32
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I like Corsair for doing their best to keep cables compatible. Just dropped a H1000 in place of a RMx850 and I did not have to rerun any of my existing wires, just added another set of outs for the additional ins on the 4090, which should be here monday. I ended up selling my 3090 and the RMx850 to one of my friends for $800 which I think is totally reasonable as a friendly price, but I'm just one computer toucher selling to another.
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Oct 20, 2022 15:34
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Cabbages and Kings posted:I like Corsair for doing their best to keep cables compatible. Just dropped a H1000 in place of a RMx850 and I did not have to rerun any of my existing wires, just added another set of outs for the additional ins on the 4090, which should be here monday. Braver than I. I’d never mix and match modular cables. I won’t gently caress around with power.
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Oct 20, 2022 15:42
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:That whole video is savage toward the game haha the climbing animation at 0:49 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6Vno8r4cN8&t=49s
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Oct 20, 2022 15:59
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8-bit Miniboss posted:Braver than I. I’d never mix and match modular cables. I won’t gently caress around with power. Corsair documents the set of compatible PSUs, I believe.
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Oct 20, 2022 16:03
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