CanPol Megathread: Big Changus

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Patrick Spens: Jul 21, 2006; "Every quarterback says they've got guts, But how many have actually seen 'em?"; Pillbug

Drewjitsu posted:

Is that a problem? Your previous comment seems to imply that it is, so is the issue with the length of sentence, or is it the mechanism/length of parole eligibility before the completion of the sentence?

I don't like that people are eligible for parole after 1/3rd of their sentence is served no. But mostly I was responding to the post that said he was sentenced to 10 years in prison, when his actual sentence is more likely to be 3 years in prison, and 7 years of parole meetings.

# ? Mar 30, 2016 22:48

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# ? May 29, 2024 20:57

brucio: Nov 22, 2004

So the system is not punitive enough then, got it.

# ? Mar 30, 2016 23:02

DariusLikewise: Oct 4, 2008; You wore that on Halloween?

They can't actually form government because they are only running 17 canidates, but promising a 10% flat tax to turn Manitoba in a Tax Haven is hilarious.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/manitoba-party-election-event-1.3511906

quote:

The Manitoba Party made its official entry into the provincial election on Wednesday afternoon with just 21 days left before the vote.

The party's leader and candidate for Kildonan Gary Marshall says the party is running on a platform to cut the provincial sales tax from eight per cent down to five per cent.

Marshall said the party would also raise the personal exemption on provincial income tax to $20,000 for individuals, $40,000 for couples and $48,000 for a family with children under the age of 18.

And it would institute a flat income tax of 10 per cent for all personal and business income, end photo enforcement and mandate 90 per cent of education funding be spent at the school level instead of on school boards and administration.

"As you can see by the election, we aren't seeing much of anything. These people have had four years to prepare. They've got all the research, the experience, the money and they come out with nothing but fancy brochures and for the people of this province nothing. So we're here to do something about it," he said.

Marshall says the core goal of the Manitoba Party is creating the conditions for economic growth in the private sector.

Manitoba has too many people working for the public sector, Marshall said, and it needs to grow the private sector in order to foster prosperity.

"The people of the province have to support [government workers], so what are we getting for our money?" he said. "What products are they putting out? We have no idea. We're assured they have value but do they have any value? We don't know."

Marshall didn't have a breakdown of what the party's proposed cuts would cost but he maintained they would benefit the provincial economy by attracting more businesses and investment, bringing in more revenue to provincial coffers.

Marshall said the measures his party is advocating could turn Manitoba into a tax haven.

"There's huge numbers of people engaged in all sorts of schemes of evasion and avoidance in taxes, and as soon as they see � with our flat tax at 10 per cent � this province will all of a sudden become a target for that money. Money will flow here," said Marshall.

The party is running 17 candidates in ridings throughout the city and rural Manitoba.

Manitobans head to the polls on April 19.

# ? Mar 31, 2016 00:51

EvilJoven: Mar 18, 2005; NOBODY,IN THE HISTORY OF EVER, HAS ASKED OR CARED WHAT CANADA THINKS. YOU ARE NOT A COUNTRY. YOUR MONEY HAS THE QUEEN OF ENGLAND ON IT. IF YOU DIG AROUND IN YOUR BACKYARD, NATIVE SKELETONS WOULD EXPLODE OUT OF YOUR LAWN LIKE THE END OF POLTERGEIST. CANADA IS SO POLITE, EH?; Fun Shoe

Oh my god thats retarded.

# ? Mar 31, 2016 00:55

cowofwar: Jul 30, 2002; by Athanatos

Hey remember when that politician in Ontario got elected by making GBS threads all over public employees? Great strategy.

# ? Mar 31, 2016 01:02

flakeloaf: Feb 26, 2003; Still better than android clock

CLAM DOWN posted:

"He's the mayor of heaven now"

http://www.cbc.ca/news2/interactives/breaking/ford-funeral/

People say weird stuff when they're be-reeved.

# ? Mar 31, 2016 01:05

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

flakeloaf posted:

People say weird stuff when they're be-reeved.

Also it's his daughter, we can forgive her for saying sappy nonsense at her dad's funeral I think.

# ? Mar 31, 2016 01:08

brucio: Nov 22, 2004

Mulcair calling on Trudeau to denounce Trump right now is maybe the most desperate thing he's ever done.

# ? Mar 31, 2016 01:15

cowofwar: Jul 30, 2002; by Athanatos

Didn't Mulcair not do the debate on women's issues?

# ? Mar 31, 2016 01:16

Postess with the Mostest: Apr 4, 2007; Arabian nights
'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard
could fall and fall hard
out there on the dunes

quote:

Jian Ghomeshi's lawyer, Marie Henein, has taken Tom Mulcair to task for tweeting #IBelieveSurvivors on the day that her client was acquitted of sexual assault charges, suggesting the NDP leader was just seeking to get votes.

"On a personal level if somebody wants to express their support that's their choice," said Henein, in an exclusive interview with CBC's Peter Mansbridge. "When a politician weighs in, that's a little more concerning to me because you're a person who is engaged and should be more knowledgeable about what you're commenting on."

# ? Mar 31, 2016 01:18

flakeloaf: Feb 26, 2003; Still better than android clock

brucio posted:

Mulcair calling on Trudeau to denounce Trump right now is maybe the most desperate thing he's ever done.

A sitting Prime Minister has no business whatsoever commenting on another country's electoral race and Mulcair's smart enough to know that.

# ? Mar 31, 2016 01:31

Legit Businessman: Sep 2, 2007

Legit Businessman fucked around with this message at 16:53 on Sep 9, 2022

# ? Mar 31, 2016 01:34

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

lol mulcair

I wanna remind most of you retards that you voted for this Jack rear end

# ? Mar 31, 2016 01:39

Precambrian Video Games: Aug 19, 2002

Cultural Imperial posted:

lol mulcair

I wanna remind most of you retards that you voted for this Jack rear end

Most of us don't live in Outremont, actually.

# ? Mar 31, 2016 01:41

priznat: Jul 7, 2009; Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

Jenny for NDP leader

# ? Mar 31, 2016 01:41

Reince Penis: Nov 15, 2007; by R. Guyovich

Before anyone else complains about the sentence they should google criminal code s 718 and read what our sentencing objectives are in law. I don't even think the word punitive is in there.

E: heres a good primer https://en.m.wikibooks.org/wiki/Canadian_Criminal_Sentencing/Purpose_and_Principles_of_Sentencing

Somebody fucked around with this message at 17:15 on Sep 9, 2022

# ? Mar 31, 2016 02:16

flakeloaf: Feb 26, 2003; Still better than android clock

Nope.

quote:

(a) to denounce unlawful conduct;

(b) to deter the offender and other persons from committing offences;

(c) to separate offenders from society, where necessary;

(d) to assist in rehabilitating offenders;

(e) to provide reparations for harm done to victims or to the community; and

(f) to promote a sense of responsibility in offenders, and acknowledgement of the harm done to victims and to the community.

# ? Mar 31, 2016 02:19

Legit Businessman: Sep 2, 2007

Legit Businessman fucked around with this message at 16:53 on Sep 9, 2022

# ? Mar 31, 2016 02:22

MA-Horus: Dec 3, 2006; I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am.

Not surprised the wannabe American doesn't know how the Westminster system works.

# ? Mar 31, 2016 02:23

blah_blah: Apr 15, 2006

flakeloaf posted:

Nope.

a), b), e), and f) all allude to some form of punishment.

# ? Mar 31, 2016 02:37

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

the most canadian of insults :rolleyes:

y'all parochial motherfuckers keep telling yourselves canada is the best place on earth ok

eXXon posted:

Most of us don't live in Outremont, actually.

so you vote for the party when your candidate is a loving shitheel and you vote for your candidate when your party is led by a loving shitheel

with these levels of saving face, may I inquire if you're mainland chinese?

# ? Mar 31, 2016 02:38

upgunned shitpost: Jan 21, 2015

I was given the choice of voting for Mulcair via Jenny

Staying home that day may have been the most patriotic thing I've ever done

# ? Mar 31, 2016 02:50

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

jfood posted:

I was given the choice of voting for Mulcair via Jenny

Staying home that day may have been the most patriotic thing I've ever done

I salute you, courageous Canadian

# ? Mar 31, 2016 02:57

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Stop voting for human garbage you loving idiots.

# ? Mar 31, 2016 02:58

Precambrian Video Games: Aug 19, 2002

Cultural Imperial posted:

so you vote for the party when your candidate is a loving shitheel

No I don't, actually.

# ? Mar 31, 2016 03:13

Patrick Spens: Jul 21, 2006; "Every quarterback says they've got guts, But how many have actually seen 'em?"; Pillbug

I don't like doing the whole microquotes thing, but it seems like the best way to answer your questions.

I don't actually support longer sentences, so much as I support sentences that more accurately reflect the amount of time being served. So I am not necessarily opposed to him getting out in 3. Honestly it sounds about right, but I would support a longer driving ban. However, given that he is getting out in three, he shouldn't be sentenced to 10.

I would move parole to 2/3rds of the sentence, and then get rid of stat release. If doing so shortens most sentences than so be it.

Some community service and/or a fine.

One punch and it's your first offence? Somewhere under a year, unless it's really egregious, like you walked up and slugged a 5 year old for no reason.

If nobody's home? A year or so for the first offence, depending on what you stole.

Honestly my answer depends a lot on whether we are talking about somebody selling dime bags on the street corner, or being the head of a major operation. Can you specify?

While it's instinctively plausible that harsher sentences = more deterrence, I haven't seen evidence that it actually matters that much, as long as the sentences aren't ludicrously easy.

What I want longer sentences for is to separate criminals from the people they are hurting. When I volunteered at a prison, I saw a case file for a guy who was serving his third bid for assaulting the same woman. He was serving 5 years, and I was looking through his file because he was going to be stat released. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he went right back to abusing that woman after he was released. And that it would be possible for him to do so is a grotesque failure of the Canadian Government. We have the dangerous offender designation for a reason, and we need to use it more often. ]

No. Judges don't set parole lengths. I like it when judges take precedent into account, and this guy doesn't seem likely to re-offend, especially if he can't drive for the next decade and a half.

I don't want to borrow American sentences, but I think that the crime rate in the U.S. is major driver of the mass incarceration there, and I don't think that either Canada or Europe would be immune to an American style justice system if we were looking at similar murder/assault rates.

Somebody fucked around with this message at 17:16 on Sep 9, 2022

# ? Mar 31, 2016 03:50

Jordan7hm: Feb 17, 2011; Lipstick Apathy

Patrick Spens posted:

I don't actually support longer sentences, so much as I support sentences that more accurately reflect the amount of time being served. So I am not necessarily opposed to him getting out in 3. Honestly it sounds about right, but I would support a longer driving ban. However, given that he is getting out in three, he shouldn't be sentenced to 10.

I would move parole to 2/3rds of the sentence, and then get rid of stat release. If doing so shortens most sentences than so be it.

Parole isn't exactly a straight return to society, and not everybody gets parole after 1/3.

The problem with removal of stat release, and the reason it exists, is that if you don't have it you lose oversight as people are reintegrated into society after years in prison. Do you really want to guy who just served 10 years, and who was judged as being too dangerous for a 2/3s release, to just get shoved out the doors when his 10 years is up and we can't hold him any longer?

# ? Mar 31, 2016 04:06

BattleMaster: Aug 14, 2000

I think that prison sentences should be as long as they need to be until the offender is no longer a danger. I think it's nuts that people can get many years for dumb harmless things like drug offenses while sometimes violent offenders are released and clearly weren't in there long enough because the cops issue warnings about them being dangerous and likely to re-offend.

# ? Mar 31, 2016 04:08

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Someone pls link me to a case where someone was sent to jail for drug posession IN CANADA tia

# ? Mar 31, 2016 04:11

BattleMaster: Aug 14, 2000

drug offense doesn't necessarily mean caught with a dime bag of marijuana on you, idiot

though there are mandatory minimums if you have a bunch and they think you're going to sell it lmbo

edit: no but realtalk, selling drugs shouldn't even be illegal and in fact the government should be doing it like how they sell or heavily tax alcohol, tobacco, and gambling

# ? Mar 31, 2016 04:13

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

lmao yet again a stoner proves that any argument related to drug legalization is really about easy access to drugs

# ? Mar 31, 2016 04:15

BattleMaster: Aug 14, 2000

i don't do drugs and i think marijuana smells like rancid skunk farts so i don't even like walking by people who are using it

# ? Mar 31, 2016 04:16

terrorist ambulance: Nov 5, 2009

Cultural Imperial posted:

Someone pls link me to a case where someone was sent to jail for drug posession IN CANADA tia

http://www.canlii.org/en/index.html#search/text=possession%20%2Fp%20custody%20cdsa%20NOT%20traffick

dunno you figure it out

# ? Mar 31, 2016 04:17

terrorist ambulance: Nov 5, 2009

Patrick Spens posted:

I don't like doing the whole microquotes thing, but it seems like the best way to answer your questions.

I don't actually support longer sentences, so much as I support sentences that more accurately reflect the amount of time being served. So I am not necessarily opposed to him getting out in 3. Honestly it sounds about right, but I would support a longer driving ban. However, given that he is getting out in three, he shouldn't be sentenced to 10.

I would move parole to 2/3rds of the sentence, and then get rid of stat release. If doing so shortens most sentences than so be it.

Some community service and/or a fine.

One punch and it's your first offence? Somewhere under a year, unless it's really egregious, like you walked up and slugged a 5 year old for no reason.

If nobody's home? A year or so for the first offence, depending on what you stole.

Honestly my answer depends a lot on whether we are talking about somebody selling dime bags on the street corner, or being the head of a major operation. Can you specify?

While it's instinctively plausible that harsher sentences = more deterrence, I haven't seen evidence that it actually matters that much, as long as the sentences aren't ludicrously easy.

What I want longer sentences for is to separate criminals from the people they are hurting. When I volunteered at a prison, I saw a case file for a guy who was serving his third bid for assaulting the same woman. He was serving 5 years, and I was looking through his file because he was going to be stat released. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he went right back to abusing that woman after he was released. And that it would be possible for him to do so is a grotesque failure of the Canadian Government. We have the dangerous offender designation for a reason, and we need to use it more often.

No. Judges don't set parole lengths. I like it when judges take precedent into account, and this guy doesn't seem likely to re-offend, especially if he can't drive for the next decade and a half.

I don't want to borrow American sentences, but I think that the crime rate in the U.S. is major driver of the mass incarceration there, and I don't think that either Canada or Europe would be immune to an American style justice system if we were looking at similar murder/assault rates.

what dreamland are those tarrifs accurate. do you live in newfoundland or something

# ? Mar 31, 2016 04:19

Postess with the Mostest: Apr 4, 2007; Arabian nights
'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard
could fall and fall hard
out there on the dunes

I guess Mulcair and Horwath wouldn't have believed these women.

quote:

In one of the worst cases of multiple-partner violence in Canadian history, 58-year-old Basil Borutski is charged with slaying Anastasia Kuzyk, 36, Nathalie Warmerdam, 48, and Carol Culleton, 66, in separate incidents on the morning of Sept. 22 in Renfrew County.

He was known to all of the women and to police for a long history of violence. He had been released from prison just shortly before the murders.

...

Family, friends and neighbours see the situation differently. They question why the police, probation officers and courts failed to protect these women.

"Something is wrong with our justice system," said Eva Kuzyk, sister of Anastasia Kuzyk. "Something is wrong with people who didn't realize he was a serious offender when for years he's been beating women. Why didn't we know?"

After an assault against Kuzyk, he was sentenced to 17 months in jail, and yet, after credit for time served, he was out in just five months.

The bodies of Anastasia Kuzyk, Nathalie Warmerdam and Carol Culleton were found at three separate locations near Wilno, Ont., in September. The man accused of killing them has a criminal history involving Kuzyk and Warmerdam. (CBC News)

When he was released, his probation order included a specific clause that he have no communication with, nor go anywhere near, Anastasia Kuzyk. Borutski refused to sign it, according to court documents.

In the course of our investigation, the fifth estate learned that Borutski was openly breaking court orders that were part of his probation.

...

Ontario's Premier Kathleen Wynne tweeted condolences.

McBain said that's not good enough: "We saw this man coming, and the system did nothing."

"So thank you for the thoughts and prayers, but how about you roll up your sleeves, and see what can be done so that this doesn't happen again? Make some inquiries. Do something.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/borutski-wilno-murders-fifth-estate-1.3404238

# ? Mar 31, 2016 04:20

Patrick Spens: Jul 21, 2006; "Every quarterback says they've got guts, But how many have actually seen 'em?"; Pillbug

Jordan7hm posted:

Parole isn't exactly a straight return to society, and not everybody gets parole after 1/3.

The problem with removal of stat release, and the reason it exists, is that if you don't have it you lose oversight as people are reintegrated into society after years in prison. Do you really want to guy who just served 10 years, and who was judged as being too dangerous for a 2/3s release, to just get shoved out the doors when his 10 years is up and we can't hold him any longer?

If someone mentions the concept of stat release, that ought to be a pretty good sign that they know not everybody gets parole. I'm familiar with Corrections Services' justification for Stat release, but it's bullshit. There is no reason that we can't sentence people to additional monitoring after they serve their prison sentence. And if someone was judged too dangerous for a stat release, then I don't want them getting out at all.

# ? Mar 31, 2016 04:21

Jordan7hm: Feb 17, 2011; Lipstick Apathy

Patrick Spens posted:

If someone mentions the concept of stat release, that ought to be a pretty good sign that they know not everybody gets parole. I'm familiar with Corrections Services' justification for Stat release, but it's bullshit. There is no reason that we can't sentence people to additional monitoring after they serve their prison sentence. And if someone was judged too dangerous for a stat release, then I don't want them getting out at all.

Why wait for people to be sentenced even? We all know who the dangerous people in our society are. We should start monitoring them before they have a chance to commit the crimes in the first place.

# ? Mar 31, 2016 04:28

apatheticman: May 13, 2003; Wedge Regret

Cultural Imperial posted:

Stop voting for human garbage you loving idiots.

I don't have a choice

# ? Mar 31, 2016 04:32

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Then stop voting.

# ? Mar 31, 2016 04:33

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# ? May 29, 2024 20:57

Patrick Spens: Jul 21, 2006; "Every quarterback says they've got guts, But how many have actually seen 'em?"; Pillbug

Do you honestly not see the difference between, "We need to use the dangerous offender designation more" and, "Minority Report Now!!" Because they are really distinct concepts.

Our Justice System posted:

One of the victims, Nathalie Warmerdam, had been given a panic button to wear in case she was in danger from Borutski.

"I find it kind of ironic that the women were wearing bracelets, yet he wasn't," said Tracy McBain, Warmerdam's closest friend and confidante. "So the police would know where the victims were, but they wouldn't know where he was.

...

Borutski had been identified by at least four women as being violent towards them, according to court records.

After an assault against Kuzyk, he was sentenced to 17 months in jail, and yet, after credit for time served, he was out in just five months.

Clearly anyone who has a problem with this doesn't understand sentencing objectives and has been infected with American love of punishment.

# ? Mar 31, 2016 04:33

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