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*smashes fist on desk* CHILDREN'S CARTOONS AREN'T FUCKABLE ENOUGH
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Sep 13, 2023 02:54
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Mr Interweb posted:https://twitter.com/RichardHanania/status/1700699421900734628 Wait, isn't this the guy who got outed as a flat out nazi who posted racist poo poo under several aliases for years? He absolutely is just the same as Sargon of Akkad. He's only become "respectable" because he was smart enough to apologize and the nation has outrage fatigue.
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Sep 13, 2023 02:58
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Olive Oyl and Minnie Mouse, now those were some smokeshows
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Sep 13, 2023 04:13
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predicto posted:Wait, isn't this the guy who got outed as a flat out nazi who posted racist poo poo under several aliases for years? He absolutely is just the same as Sargon of Akkad. He's only become "respectable" because he was smart enough to apologize and the nation has outrage fatigue. i mean yes he's not different in the sense that he's just an awful lowlife like sargon, but before he was revealed to have had those aliases, he had a respectable reputation among the "very serious people" like matt yglesias, jon chait, david brooks, bari weiss etc.
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Sep 13, 2023 04:29
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Xand_Man posted:Olive Oyl and Minnie Mouse, now those were some smokeshows Is a man not entitled to the fap of his brow? Clearly the issue here is that April is black, much like *checks notes* the little mermaid! Fetal alcohol syndrome clearly has impacted the guy. It's surely a coincidence they get angry from minorities.
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Sep 13, 2023 04:52
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Mr Interweb posted:i mean yes he's not different in the sense that he's just an awful lowlife like sargon, but before he was revealed to have had those aliases, he had a respectable reputation among the "very serious people" like matt yglesias, jon chait, david brooks, bari weiss etc. Not just "before", none of that crowd has disavowed him since it came out Piell fucked around with this message at 04:55 on Sep 13, 2023 |
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Sep 13, 2023 04:53
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Mr Interweb posted:https://twitter.com/RichardHanania/status/1700699421900734628 Wiggles-rear end looking motherfucker
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Sep 13, 2023 05:10
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I've only seen ads, but isn't the april o'neil in the new teenage ninja turtles movie a child?! edit: yes, wikipedia says she is a teenager. What is wrong with these people
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Sep 13, 2023 05:20
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A Man Unfamiliar with The Internet posted:Yes, nobody is going to masturbate to this cartoon character
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Sep 13, 2023 05:38
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It's part of this grand paranoia that conservatism is about preserving true beauty in the world, while progressivism is throwing elephant poo on a virgin Mary statue and calling it 'art'. To conservatives beauty is very objective and they think it's something that doesn't really change. This is probably why a lot of chuds on Twitter are so obsessed with those hyper realistic looking statues that were made hundreds of years ago. To a progressive beauty is a lot more subjective and there's an effort to challenge the status quo. Beauty doesn't need to be up for some arbitrary concensus, and it can exist in a lot of forms. This makes it accessible for a much wider assortment of mediums (and body types/ethnicities). Conservatives view this as a kind of threat. You see it in their outrage of a trans woman winning a beauty contest, a banana taped to a canvas being sold for an exorbitant sum, or adaptations that change up the appearance of characters. To them it isn't about broadening the definition of beauty so much as diluting it and obscuring what they consider 'genuine' beauty. April O'Neal was a reporter with an iconic jumpsuit that had a plunging neckline. Changing her to make her fatter and browner gets seen as this deliberate plot to make cartoons ugly because they assume traditional beauty is now taboo in left wing culture. Also, I'm waiting (probably for a long time) for the Sargons of Akkad to express this type of outrage to a character getting blatantly whitewashed. They love to joke about it, like the idea of a Black Panther reboot with Elon Musk as T'Challa or something but I honestly don't actually see them have the same outrage about that kind of thing as they do with April O'Neal being a person of color.
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Sep 13, 2023 06:10
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oh, no, it's worse than that, it's that he's complaining that he can't.
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Sep 13, 2023 07:51
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A lot of characters from the 80's-90's TV cartoons they're admiring were designed by a guy that later went on to do a bunch of weird erotic fetish art (in the same art style).Panfilo posted:Also, I'm waiting (probably for a long time) for the Sargons of Akkad to express this type of outrage to a character getting blatantly whitewashed. They love to joke about it, like the idea of a Black Panther reboot with Elon Musk as T'Challa or something but I honestly don't actually see them have the same outrage about that kind of thing as they do with April O'Neal being a person of color.
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Sep 13, 2023 08:54
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Discendo Vox posted:I've only seen ads, but isn't the april o'neil in the new teenage ninja turtles movie a child?!
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Sep 13, 2023 11:20
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Feels like the right is just going back to the trusted old Entartete Kunst. So you can probably just read the Wikipedia article on it and learn everything there is to learn about their goals and intentions…
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Sep 13, 2023 14:45
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Antigravitas posted:Feels like the right is just going back to the trusted old Entartete Kunst. So you can probably just read the Wikipedia article on it and learn everything there is to learn about their goals and intentions… Dovetails well with how they're doing their best to reenact the destruction of the Institute fur Sexualwissenschaft.
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Sep 13, 2023 18:07
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If Fascism is devoid of nuance, a "cult of action" if you will, then apparently you can't tear it down by mocking it. The argument here is that it will just inadvertently make it look cooler in the process. Chuds don't care that Homelander is a fragile little sociopath, he's a god among men and can do whatever the gently caress he wants. https://twitter.com/v1sig0th/status/1701395715572830287?t=BYVcxg_M-qefUSXTCeLVJQ&s=19
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Sep 13, 2023 19:53
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Panfilo posted:If Fascism is devoid of nuance, a "cult of action" if you will, then apparently you can't tear it down by mocking it. The argument here is that it will just inadvertently make it look cooler in the process. Chuds don't care that Homelander is a fragile little sociopath, he's a god among men and can do whatever the gently caress he wants. I mean look at the leader of this fascist push. He is a fat, narcissist lazy man child. They 100% don't care about any of those values. What fascists care about is if they have power and Homelander has that nothing else matters.
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Sep 13, 2023 19:59
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I don't think fascism is fully immune to satirical critique but it'd be interesting (and difficult) to identify the boundary conditions for such successful critique. At first blush, I think you'd have to a) make the failure and incompetence of the fascist total, absolute and continuous b) never directly depict the fascist successfully committing violence You'd also probably not want to depict the fascist with humanizing, causal or sympathetic elements. Even if there is a role for such narratives, it doesn't mix well with the mockery because it facilitates identification.
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Sep 13, 2023 20:07
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I think you also have to walk a fine line with having a fascist character brought low by women and minorities because that's fundamentally the narrative they are trying to reinforce - we'd succeed if 'those people' stayed in their place.
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Sep 13, 2023 20:17
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The examples people gave: The Boys (obviously) : At the end of the day people like Homelander are gods among men. I think that alone might make them into a power fantasy for idiots. Starship Troopers: Humanity gets cool toys and the 'bad guys' aren't portrayed sympathetically at all. They're nothing more than animals to be mowed down like so many feral hogs getting into your property. Star Wars: Stormtroopers get chumped by teddy bears yet plenty of people think the Empire is cool. Their theme song slaps, they have this very clean, sterile aesthetic (white with black accents) and huge, angular spaceships. Werner Hertzog makes this funny endorsement for how they're actually good in the grand scheme of things. Goblin Slayer: The GS has a tragic backstory and his obsession benefits lowbies because in this world competent adventurers aren't wasting time farming lvl 1 goblins. He's like Batman if Batman genocided goblins instead of punching mentally ill people every night. The only reason the space marines in Avatar didn't get more love is people were just too horny for the sexy blue cat people to notice.
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Sep 13, 2023 20:26
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Panfilo posted:It's part of this grand paranoia that conservatism is about preserving true beauty in the world, while progressivism is throwing elephant poo on a virgin Mary statue and calling it 'art'. To conservatives beauty is very objective and they think it's something that doesn't really change. This is probably why a lot of chuds on Twitter are so obsessed with those hyper realistic looking statues that were made hundreds of years ago. In the original TMNT comics April was black and she was an engineer White April news reporter was whitewashing for 80s audiences and it has always sucked
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Sep 13, 2023 20:28
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An example of successful mockery of bigots, if not clearly fascists, might be blazing saddles. Even the relatively intelligent and competent antagonist never goes for a scene without humiliation. Another failure example that I think might further identify boundary conditions is American History X. I really strongly recommend Sartre's Antisemite and Jew for describing the role of irony and the underlying need for absolute defense/freedom from critique that is at the core of bad faith and hate. The pages before and after the "right to play" passage (page 36 of the pdf) are also informative. A lot of the rest of the book has not aged as well (I mean, it's Sartre) but it's worth reading. A central part of the concept is that the person who has taken this position is in no small part also embracing the ability to lie to themselves- that their instrumental approach to satire and bad faith is because they have also given up on the distinction between what they believe and what they are lying about; the boundary between what is true and what is ideologically convenient has collapsed in their mind. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Sep 13, 2023 |
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Sep 13, 2023 20:29
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Discendo Vox posted:I don't think fascism is fully immune to satirical critique but it'd be interesting (and difficult) to identify the boundary conditions for such successful critique. At first blush, I think you'd have to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JObnr5e0TIg
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Sep 13, 2023 20:34
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Elephant Ambush posted:In the original TMNT comics April was black and she was an engineer Most of these idiots' first experience with TMNT was likely the animated show where she was a white lady with big honkers crammed into a yellow jumpsuit. Or the live action movie which also cast a white woman. Or the vast majority of toys. Stuff just gets cemented into people's brains like that. I didn't know April didn't used to be black but I also didn't care that they made her a black character again recently. The whole "controversy" just reminded me also of this other :biotruth: conspiracy theory that while Male artists have the imagination to come up with characters of any appearance, female artists just create a facsimile of themselves. This came about because I guess the person who made the more recent April O Neal is also a black woman so they just assumed a black woman only knows how to make a character into a black woman as well and just injects their own attitudes and hangups into the character. Which offends chuds who want the exact same character they remember when they were six.
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Sep 13, 2023 20:37
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Here's the passage I was thinking of. I think it should be quoted as much as the more famous one.quote:How can one choose to reason falsely? It is because of a longing for impenetrability. The rational man groans as he gropes for the truth; he knows that his reasoning is no more than tentative, that other considerations may supervene to cast doubt on it. He never sees very clearly where he is going; he is "open"; he may even appear to be hesitant. But there are people who are attracted by the durability of a stone. They wish to be massive and impenetrable; they wish not to change. Where, indeed, would change take them? We have here a basic fear of oneself and of truth. What frightens them is not the content of truth, of which they have no conception, but the form itself of truth, that thing of indefinite approximation. It is as if their own existence were in continual suspension. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Sep 13, 2023 |
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Sep 13, 2023 20:48
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I heard a radio caller relaying a news article about how a high school was disallowed to wear red white and blue colors on 9/11 because the flag was racist so they're going to do a Barbie theme instead. I immediately suspected bullshit and for a few moments, I entertained the idea that it was stupid and unfunny enough to be a Babylon Bee article. Well..only source I could find is the NY Post https://nypost.com/2021/09/13/washington-school-bans-9-11-tribute-over-race-sensitivities/ Washington school bans students’ 9/11 tribute for being ‘racially insensitive’ quote:Students at a Washington state high school football game were banned from wearing red, white and blue in honor of 9/11 victims because some may find it “racially insensitive.” I have a weird feeling there's more to this story. For one thing, why isn't the school's entire email cited/quoted? I also don't know what KTTH radio station is so let's see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KTTH  Now...why do I think that maybe, perhaps, some people's interpretation of red white and blue may have been, I dunno, a confederate flag? Or that, perhaps, the aggressive displays of "patriotism" may have crossed over into giant TRUMP flags and poo poo? Because I'm not buying this story on its face, unlike the listeners of this radio station probably did. Again, Google turns up ONE source for this story. One that emanated from a RWM radio station that was picked up by the NY loving Post.
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Sep 13, 2023 21:11
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I think it's safe to say that (particularly white) progressives in general have been known to crawl entirely up their own rear end on poo poo like this. Good intentions and dogshit reasoning. There's always a thin line between patriotism and nationalism (with or without racist elements), and if the policy did in fact exist, it was aimed at the latter rather than the former -- but in a stupid and unsubtle way that was always going to eventually cause this sort of reaction.
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Sep 13, 2023 21:26
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Discendo Vox posted:Here's the passage I was thinking of. I think it should be quoted as much as the more famous one. Also explains the popularity if whatever it is these people think the Bible says. Because how can you argue with the word of god? I'm not saying it. GOD said it. Check mate. I hate arguing with conservative christians because any and all debate is squelched by the Super Turbo Powered JESUS Card that let's god himself speak for them. And god said to hoard guns, be greedy and build walls (probably somewhere in that book).
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Sep 13, 2023 21:35
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For The Boys to have failed in this case means to assume that the purpose was to convince or in any way reach fascists in the first place. I don't think there's any reason to think that's the case.Discendo Vox posted:An example of successful mockery of bigots, if not clearly fascists, might be blazing saddles. Even the relatively intelligent and competent antagonist never goes for a scene without humiliation. How is this more successful than The Boys or any other of the examples? Fascists constantly whine about how you can't make Blazing Saddles anymore.
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Sep 13, 2023 22:13
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Absurd Alhazred posted:For The Boys to have failed in this case means to assume that the purpose was to convince or in any way reach fascists in the first place. I don't think there's any reason to think that's the case. That they are whining is the clearest evidence. They cannot co-opt Blazing Saddles as they can the other examples; they cannot identify with or use its contents, so they must attempt to reverse its meaning, something that they cannot successfully do. The goal of the Boys was satire, not necessarily persuasion. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Sep 13, 2023 |
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Sep 13, 2023 22:22
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Anti woke beer guy is still at it apparently https://twitter.com/sethweathers/status/1701683052118712657?t=nA6JOEwRqqr1890rnxd6vA&s=19
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Sep 13, 2023 22:50
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Never Stop Grifting
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Sep 13, 2023 22:53
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Elephant Ambush posted:In the original TMNT comics April was black and she was an engineer Yeah, I think the first show/movie to actually make her black again was Rise of the TMNT (though as far as careers go she was a scientist in the 2003 series and a teenager with superpowers in 2012)
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Sep 13, 2023 23:44
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Discendo Vox posted:That they are whining is the clearest evidence. They cannot co-opt Blazing Saddles as they can the other examples; they cannot identify with or use its contents, so they must attempt to reverse its meaning, something that they cannot successfully do. The goal of the Boys was satire, not necessarily persuasion. ?? they try to co-opt blazing saddles all the time. sure it almost entirely has to do with characters saying the n-word, but that's all you need apparently
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Sep 13, 2023 23:45
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Mr Interweb posted:?? Time for you to scroll back up to Panfilo's post and reread the original argument.
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Sep 14, 2023 00:04
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Elephant Ambush posted:In the original TMNT comics April was black and she was an engineer Nah, she was super ambiguous in the Mirage comics. Laird's notes had her as Asian, Eastman named her for his black first wife, and the early art was rough and all over the place in a black and white comic, often pretty white and often not. How she comes off varies issue by issue and sometimes panel by panel; colorists for bound versions and reprints also colored her differently in different releases ranging from plainly black to plainly white.  Though the cartoon definitely was what made her unambiguously white and turned her from a programmer/engineer who didn't know her boss was a mad scientist into a reporter. Also turned the jumpsuit she wore in just her first comic appearance into her only outfit, but that's cheap cartoons for you.
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Sep 14, 2023 00:15
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BiggerBoat posted:I heard a radio caller relaying a news article about how a high school was disallowed to wear red white and blue colors on 9/11 because the flag was racist so they're going to do a Barbie theme instead. I immediately suspected bullshit and for a few moments, I entertained the idea that it was stupid and unfunny enough to be a Babylon Bee article. I for one can’t believe a bunch of (white? suburban?) teenagers would consider a 9/11 tribute the appropriate place for a possibly reactionary edgy joke. Totally out of keeping with how high school kids treat 9/11.
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Sep 14, 2023 00:34
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Panfilo posted:The examples people gave: One of the reasons that The Boys can be a difficult watch is because it has no protagonists. Every major character is always working an angle and there's something to dislike about all of them. Some of the minor humans are OK blokes I guess. Name Change fucked around with this message at 00:54 on Sep 14, 2023 |
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Sep 14, 2023 00:46
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Sarah Connor, 1984.
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Sep 14, 2023 00:47
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Absurd Alhazred posted:For The Boys to have failed in this case means to assume that the purpose was to convince or in any way reach fascists in the first place. I don't think there's any reason to think that's the case. Also if there's anywhere that The Boys fails as satire, it's that they're doing the playing-both-sides thing by having their AOC stand-in be a cynical fraud.
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Sep 14, 2023 02:10
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