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  reposted for new page Gothsheep posted:Is that an actual worry? Clanners don't really do melee combat unless they have no choice. Still, I don't want to run because I don't want to incur any more to-hit penalties than I have to. You don't have to run to get to 1419 (turn SW, back up 3), if that's what you meant. I think these clanners have been pushed beyond temperance, and they're treating you as tanks, so all Honor bets are probably off. Moving to 1119 (two north of you) is problematic because unless you face in an odd direction (SW) for the move, you'll be exposing your back to either F2 or the Mechs on the hill. Swinging right also discourages F5 from jumping off to the E and being more of a nuisance. Generally, you want to keep as much of the battle in front of you as possible, in my opinion. Of course, you're driving, so it's all up to your slightly-concussed self. The Merry Marauder fucked around with this message at 08:15 on Aug 2, 2011 |
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Aug 2, 2011 08:10
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Gothsheep posted:Clanners don't really do melee combat unless they have no choice. Well, these ones don't.
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Aug 2, 2011 08:15
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With the clanners going after you, this next turn is going to probably be a wash, offensive-wise. Good moves put you in safe spots, behind cover, or with large penalties to be hit due to lots of hexes covered/jumping. Definitely try to avoid obvious danger-spots but in general I think it's too difficult to try to guess where the clanners will go... just head for cover and worry about doing lots of damage next round, assuming none of you gets busted. The really high danger is that you guys lose another mech this round, and lose the init again, and then lose another mech, and so on. This could spiral down very rapidly indeed if you can't regain the initiative.
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Aug 2, 2011 08:17
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They're kind of in the thick of it, so with maybe one exception cover is probably out of the question. Mobility is probably their best bet. I think regaining the initiative through survival for later might not be quite as important as minimizing the number of viable guns shooting at them now. The Big Pony's still a credible threat but a softened one.
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Aug 2, 2011 08:31
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The Merry Marauder posted:
It's not a matter of honor, it's a matter of skill. Clanners get like a +2 to any hit checks for melee combat. And backing up would require I make a piloting roll. I...haven't done well with those.
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Aug 2, 2011 09:23
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About drat time the clanners shoot at me. I've been trying to get them to do that the whole game. What good are all those tons of armor if noone is shooting it, right? With that in mind, I'm gonna take the high ground, and then slap anything that presents itself. That is, if initiative for clanners works how I think it works. (players send their movement, PTN moves clanners and players, reposts new map, players send their targeting) Is that how it works?
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Aug 2, 2011 12:01
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I'm out of it, which seems fair; I was the last to go in the last battle, so being the first to go this time seems reasonable. Thanks for the second chance, Poptarts. Show those Clanners what for, Crabs!
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Aug 2, 2011 12:31
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 things are looking grim for the Crabguard.This... This may be it. I'd tell you to go down shooting, but you guys already know what you're doing in the  department.
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Aug 2, 2011 12:45
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DatonKallandor posted:About drat time the clanners shoot at me. I've been trying to get them to do that the whole game. What good are all those tons of armor if noone is shooting it, right? I believe (but I don't know) that you move and select your targets as normal, and PTN re-selects for you if your original target made itself scarce.
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Aug 2, 2011 15:07
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Gothsheep posted:It's not a matter of honor, it's a matter of skill. Clanners get like a +2 to any hit checks for melee combat. And backing up would require I make a piloting roll. I...haven't done well with those. Yeah, the theoretical kick would need a 7 or so to hit, but getting kicked by someone a level above you is a terrifying experience, as the history of the LP shows. You don't need to make a PSR to back up normally, only if you're changing levels, and that's an optional rule. ShadowDragon8685 posted:things are looking grim for the Crabguard. You think so? I mean, F2 is down a leg and has no CT armor left, and F5 is no longer well armored.
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Aug 2, 2011 16:17
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notice that ignoring the vtol got the flashman shot in the gyro. thats bad King Crab runs forward 4 and is at 7 to the kraken and prime guass range (kraken may move but oh well) black knight does something but keeps in sight of the fallen pony mech. (which has lost movement from a missing leg and overheating engines and should be an easy strike. Flashman gets its back out of danger. and engages someone, maybe the kraken or the vtol exterminator gets into the building. Star slayer jumps to directly infront of where the kraken is now, and performs a point blank blitz. its armor is nearly intact and no you do not have pilot hits. ptn needs to fix his info, those pilot hits were from the redacted turn. the kraken is slow and has little room to move. and at that range its guns have a 2 point penalty to hit. so you force him to shoot at you on 7s even if he stands still. of course I will be ignored. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 2, 2011 16:28
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I think the players are still in great shape, but they could lose it all these next few turns. Most of the clans heavy firepower is gone (or nearly there), but the ComGuard is still in a position where the little quad or VTOL could get some devastating rear shots on you. Just concentrate fire on the enemies you know you will be able to hit and pray that the Crab doesn't take another head hit and go sleeping.
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Aug 2, 2011 16:44
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The Merry Marauder posted:You think so? I mean, F2 is down a leg and has no CT armor left, and F5 is no longer well armored. The CrabGuard's eponymous 'mech is one pilot hit away from being combat-killed. The flashbulb is effectively combat killed, because it's going to get in approximately one turn of probably half-assed shooting before it dies. One 'mech is down already, and the Clans have taken initiative. Unless the dice deliver the Kraken's head to the Crustacean Monarch this turn, this battle is all over but the shooting. Granted, that's a possibility, but things are looking quite grim, from my estimation.
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Aug 2, 2011 17:09
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ShadowDragon8685 posted:The CrabGuard's eponymous 'mech is one pilot hit away from being combat-killed. The flashbulb is effectively combat killed, because it's going to get in approximately one turn of probably half-assed shooting before it dies. One 'mech is down already, and the Clans have taken initiative. C'mon, the Flashman has big holes in its back armor, but that's easily managed, against the Mechs anyway. He needs to roll 7s to keep standing if hit for 20, but firing from prone isn't the end of the world if he has to. The Clans winning initiative is about as terrifying as a wet kitten. Their assets consist of a gently caress-slow assault armed with plinkers with minimum ranges and a battery of ERSLAS, a prone three-legged quad, and a jumping bean that you can mostly neuter by intelligent movement. The VTOL is a problem if it rolls in godly fashion again. This is not tactically daunting. Edit: Hey, wait - Flashmen have 16 CT rear armor - did that ERLLAS from the VTOL actually penetrate? The Merry Marauder fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Aug 2, 2011 |
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Aug 2, 2011 17:28
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Angry_Ed posted:Also didn't that quad also take two engine hits as well? PoptartsNinja posted:End Phase: The Merry Marauder posted:Edit: Hey, wait - Flashmen have 16 CT rear armor - did that ERLLAS from the VTOL actually penetrate? Whoops, I applied the damage to the left torso. That's what I get for updating at 11:00 PM.
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Aug 2, 2011 19:07
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The Merry Marauder posted:C'mon, the Flashman has big holes in its back armor, but that's easily managed, against the Mechs anyway. He needs to roll 7s to keep standing if hit for 20, but firing from prone isn't the end of the world if he has to.
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Aug 2, 2011 19:27
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PTN: I noticed the quad rolled against an ammo explosion, that also means it would need a roll against a shutdown as well. Also the crabguard king crab was not inside the banes short range of 9 hexes for a uac/2. and so the bane should have been rolling vs 5s.  before any arguing the first ammo explosion roll is at 19 heat, the second shutdown roll level is at 18, also it lost a minimum of 3 movement to heat, and also has shooting problems, if not -4 movement from heat and even worse. also losing the leg has halved its movement? its lost movement from there, as it is an 80 tonner assault 5/8 if its lost 2 movement from damage or 1 movement and 4 from heat, it has 0 movement and cannot even stand or turn. EXECUTE IT. Also it means it currently has 0 movement at the moment, it is helpless. Also with the discovery of the flashman actually being completely fine and upright, and the pony mech having no chance of escaping justice, this is looking a lot better. kill dat second loving pony and the vtol. AtomikKrab fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Aug 2, 2011 |
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Aug 2, 2011 19:38
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So the Flashman actually standing and never took that gyro hit, right? I guess that makes things a bit better. Want to see it vape something with all those lasers. And how difficult is it for the first Ponymech to stand back up with a blown off leg? Is the CrabGuard likely to take it down next turn? If it is all but immobilized, then you guys know what you have to do. With its Center Torso armor gone, you guys can probably make short work of it. Also, that Kraken needs to die. Pumping out the head hits like that isn't cool. It's still got a shitton of armor though, so it'll definitely need a sustained barrage to bring down. Might be harder to do so now that the Horses have seized the initiative, but make the best of it, CrabGuard!
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Aug 2, 2011 20:24
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GhostStalker posted:So the Flashman actually standing and never took that gyro hit, right? I guess that makes things a bit better. Want to see it vape something with all those lasers. it can do one of two things at the moment, either stand and thats it (if it has at least 1 mp left) or nothing at all. its got a minimum of a -3 malus to movement and should have rolled vs a shutdown.
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Aug 2, 2011 20:40
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Well now, if the Flashbulb is in fact, perfectly fine... That changes quite a lot. Goonlance? You know what to do.
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Aug 2, 2011 21:08
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Welp, now we know what happens when negative fucks are given.
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Aug 2, 2011 21:32
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Zaodai posted:I know, small lasers aren't worthless in the tabletop like they are in Mechwarrior, but it's force of habit. 14 ER Small Lasers on an Adder, push the engine so it can hit about 130KPH and rip out all the heat sinks. Run up to a mech so it's leg fills your cockpit and pull the trigger. Guaranteed kill.
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Aug 2, 2011 21:37
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Arquinsiel posted:You played Mechwarrior wrong. Also, they're Clan ERSLs, not regular smalls, so they do as much damage as a regular medium laser.
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Aug 2, 2011 21:52
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I've never played tabletop before reading this thread, but from what I can tell the Mechwarrior games had much sturdier mechs (or weaker weapons). You could take several hits from a gauss rifle to the same section before you were in trouble, and that made long range weapons less useful unless you were engaging a large number of weaker opponents like tanks that you could one-shot before they got close. Every evenly matched battle I played always ended up being decided close in, although that might just be my preference for LBX's. It seems tabletop is much less actiony and more tactical, especially since you have to worry about criticals once you lose armor.
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Aug 2, 2011 22:01
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Nevets posted:I've never played tabletop before reading this thread, but from what I can tell the Mechwarrior games had much sturdier mechs (or weaker weapons). You could take several hits from a gauss rifle to the same section before you were in trouble, and that made long range weapons less useful unless you were engaging a large number of weaker opponents like tanks that you could one-shot before they got close. Only MW4, really. The other games used the construction, armor and damage rules from the tabletop game and added a targeting reticle that allowed a player to aim where their shots fell. Most MW2 and MW3 fights only took a couple of salvos from an assault to be done. The thing that makes BT combat take longer is that you can't control where your shots fall (since you're firing from a whole bunch of different places on your mech at once, after all) so poo poo goes all over the place.
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Aug 2, 2011 22:45
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Ardeem posted:Welp, now we know what happens when negative fucks are given. We take all of their fucks?
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Aug 2, 2011 23:27
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Not sure if the legged ponymech can even stand since I think it lost another leg with the torso destruction.
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Aug 2, 2011 23:42
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Defiance Industries posted:Also, they're Clan ERSLs, not regular smalls, so they do as much damage as a regular medium laser. Most importantly, Zaodai was complaining about losing the Lynx to a CERSL anyway.
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Aug 3, 2011 00:22
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Der Waffle Mous posted:Not sure if the legged ponymech can even stand since I think it lost another leg with the torso destruction. It didn't. Torso destruction will never remove legs.
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Aug 3, 2011 00:35
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Arquinsiel posted:You played Mechwarrior wrong. That probably doesn't work so well against things that outrange you and that actually fight back. Due to the way most of the PC games were balanced, range and alpha damage trumped everything else. The games tended to handle the minimum range limitations poorly, so having ER Large or PPCs or something were high damage all range weapons and you could blow a leg off at half a kilometer rather than trying to get close. Also, in this case it was a single small laser, which is what made it stand out. 
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Aug 3, 2011 00:39
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PoptartsNinja posted:It didn't. Torso destruction will never remove legs. I think it will on a quad. And by that I mean the leg that replaces the arm, that gets blown off.
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Aug 3, 2011 01:13
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Okay, now I'm confused. We didn't lose a mech, right? Which means we still auto-win initiative?
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Aug 3, 2011 01:45
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Gothsheep posted:Okay, now I'm confused. We didn't lose a mech, right? Which means we still auto-win initiative? No, we lost a mech. The mistake was on a different mech that didn't actually take a gyro hit (which is apparently really nasty, but I dunno Battletech rules at all.)
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Aug 3, 2011 01:53
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AtomikKrab posted:I think it will on a quad. And by that I mean the leg that replaces the arm, that gets blown off.
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Aug 3, 2011 01:54
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No, its arranged just like a normal mech, except they have legs where the arms go.
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Aug 3, 2011 02:31
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Zaodai posted:That probably doesn't work so well against things that outrange you and that actually fight back. I didn't get a chance to test it as extensively against a human pilot, but the principle would *probably* hold up relatively well given how bad people are at that game (worse than the AI....).
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Aug 3, 2011 02:49
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Ah, I was going off PvP encounters. Realistically, the AI is pretty awful except when they have numbers on their side. You could pick apart a lance of AI mechs with just about any set of weapons you were comfortable with, unless you were giving up a massive weight advantage to them.
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Aug 3, 2011 04:09
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Sair posted:No, its arranged just like a normal mech, except they have legs where the arms go. Yeah, you're right. I just checked, its only the front leg that gets lost with the torso.
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Aug 3, 2011 05:36
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Zaodai posted:Ah, I was going off PvP encounters. Realistically, the AI is pretty awful except when they have numbers on their side. You could pick apart a lance of AI mechs with just about any set of weapons you were comfortable with, unless you were giving up a massive weight advantage to them. They ended up having to use the spin-ram glitch against me to stop me dodging shots, and even then I'd still kill the guy pinning me and *probably* one or two of the others by just timing my shots with a CERlarge. Also known as a "mission kill". VVVV Arquinsiel fucked around with this message at 14:05 on Aug 3, 2011 |
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Aug 3, 2011 13:49
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malkav11 posted:No, we lost a mech. The mistake was on a different mech that didn't actually take a gyro hit (which is apparently really nasty, but I dunno Battletech rules at all.) Gyro hits are nasty alright. First hit forces and automatic piloting roll to not faceplant an, enacts a permanent +3 modifier to all piloting rolls (including the one not to faceplant) and means that the Mech has then to do a piloting check at the end of movement every time it wants to run or jump. Second hit means that the gyro is destroyed, which equals an automatic faceplant and leaves the Mech unable to stand up again.
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Aug 3, 2011 14:03
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