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Lutha Mahtin posted:It really doesn't make sense the way the shofar has been adopted by American Protestants, no. My understanding is that they just think it's a cool Jewish thing, and hey, Jesus was a Jew right? Let's use one'a them in the Wednesday night service. I'm oversimplifying, but I'm also completely serious that for some churches that is the extent of their thought process. It's analogous to how the refuge occupiers see themselves as direct descendants of great patriots such as Washington and Jefferson, but in reality the only similarities are that they own firearms and got in a conflict with a government. I grew up being taught Young Earth Creationism, Noah's Ark and the Flood are literally real, Tower of Babel actually happened, etc. in Sunday School, and it's hard for me to imagine my old, very German-American pastor doing anything because he thought it was cool. The stuff that, looking back now, I can see as being borrowed from Judaism mostly centered around Passover. I remember going to a full Passover Seder in our church basement, which didn't seem odd at the time, but it's kinda surreal in retrospect. I'm legit surprised that they never brought out the shofar, but maybe it was too close to the horn they blow at Vikings games. Folks were already grumbly enough when the sermon ran long and they missed kickoff.
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Oct 3, 2016 17:02
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well actually Christians are doing it all wrong, because 
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Literally vampires, I hope.
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Oct 3, 2016 17:16
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Prokhor Zakharov posted:Post them. The emails themselves aren't that interesting, it was just the volume of them. As penance, please accept this article: http://www.audubon.org/news/the-birds-are-back-malheur-national-wildlife-refuge I really like this: quote:It was a different sort of occupation than the bizarre, 41-day takeover of the nearby Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in January and February. That’s when a group of disaffected out-of-towners walked onto the refuge, armed to the teeth, in a vague, threatening beef with the federal government. Those people have left, most of them for jail, but not before doing considerable damage. I also am enjoying how there's no Bundy news to post so we are reduced to guns, religion, and now birds.
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Oct 3, 2016 19:03
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WrenP-Complete posted:The emails themselves aren't that interesting, it was just the volume of them. As penance, please accept this article: http://www.audubon.org/news/the-birds-are-back-malheur-national-wildlife-refuge They missed an opportunity by not naming the article "The Birds are Back in Town".
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Oct 3, 2016 20:29
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Wow messing with owls that's hosed up
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Oct 3, 2016 20:56
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WrenP-Complete posted:The emails themselves aren't that interesting, it was just the volume of them. As penance, please accept this article: http://www.audubon.org/news/the-birds-are-back-malheur-national-wildlife-refuge Dang I know exactly what owl nest that was too. I was at the refuge less than a year before the retard brigade kicked all this off. Hope the owl we saw moved on before they took apart his home in the name of freedom (???)
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Oct 3, 2016 21:28
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sugar free jazz posted:Wow messing with owls that's hosed up Prokhor Zakharov posted:Dang I know exactly what owl nest that was too. I was at the refuge less than a year before the retard brigade kicked all this off. Hope the owl we saw moved on before they took apart his home in the name of freedom (???) Where was the nest?! I initially thought they meant the occupiers took apart a model nest that was in a building or something. Now I'm pissed. VV I don't want to post another comment just to say this, but FWIW "hocus pocus" is how you say "abra cadabera" in Hebrew, like the thing you say when the magic is happening. This is especially odd because abra cadabera could be distorted Hebrew for "It will be as I have said." WrenP-Complete has issued a correction as of 21:44 on Oct 3, 2016 |
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Oct 3, 2016 21:34
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Azathoth posted:The stuff that, looking back now, I can see as being borrowed from Judaism mostly centered around Passover. I remember going to a full Passover Seder in our church basement, which didn't seem odd at the time, but it's kinda surreal in retrospect. I'm legit surprised that they never brought out the shofar, but maybe it was too close to the horn they blow at Vikings games. Folks were already grumbly enough when the sermon ran long and they missed kickoff. If you went to any kind of super-duper conservative evangelical protestant church, I can venture a guess that they did this partially because they've gone through the looking-glass in their efforts to flip the bird ever-harder toward Rome. The more traditional Christian churches all celebrate Lent, which takes some cues from Passover, but this is a no-no for a lot of more radical/reactionary Protestants, because the Pope celebrates Lent and it is therefore wrong/corrupted/hocus-pocus. I'm not a big expert on any of this, but I think it's relevant to consider how the "patriot" movement has a lot of fringe religious beliefs tied up in it. Some of these fringe churches and movements adopt Jewish things because of their cosmological and eschatological beliefs that they are the one true group with the only true holy teachings, and because Christianity and Mormonism derive some things from Judaism it's important for them to lay claim to what they see as their divinely-sanctioned lineage. Some of you are probably familiar with how some super-conservative evangelicals are very pro-Zionism because they believe Jews must control the holy land in order to bring about their particular interpretation of the apocalypse, but there are other even fringe-ier beliefs similar to this. For example, there is the belief that "white people" are actually the only true descendants of the ancient Israelites. I'm not super well-versed on this one, but to me it sounds like a convenient way for American white supremacists to square two ideas that are kind of at odds: (1) their belief that the fantastic, Dungeons and Dragons-style interpretation of the book of Revelation is literally true, and (2) their paranoid conspiracies about Jews. And while it's less racist in certain ways, the Mormon belief that Native Americans are descendants of the Israelites might be relevant here, as well. I can't say I know a lot about conspiracy theories held by Mormons, but it wouldn't surprise me if people like the Bundys might consider the federal government to be persecuting natives as well as the one true bringers of the restored Gospel (i.e. Mormons).
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Oct 3, 2016 21:38
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Discendo Vox posted:The biggest one wasn't illegal; they let one of the occupier supporters come on and say they'd "never fired a bullet in anger", a statement that went unchallenged. Macnab was apoplectic. Yeah that interview pissed me off. Just letting that Oathkeeper idiot spit lies with barely any pushback. 'we've never fired a shot in anger' *people from bunkerville murder cops in Vegas* 'Uhhh they're not part of the movement. Also don't call it a movement' *completely ignores McVeigh's existence* Also he compared the patriot movement to civil rights movement and Rosa Parks. And then bristled when the interviewed pointed that out. HAHAHA I'm relistening to it now. They asked him why they brought guns if it's a non-violent protest. WHY DON'T WE DISARM LAW ENFORCEMENT INSTEAD? red19fire has issued a correction as of 21:57 on Oct 3, 2016 |
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Oct 3, 2016 21:50
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WrenP-Complete posted:I like your av. There were two, one was out over the edge of the lake, and the other was on top of the firewatch tower that the evildoers were using as a sniper perch/lookout post. The tower wasn't used by the refuge so they turned it into a big owl hangout/nesting spot. It was super cool and I hope the owls'll come back to their cool owl clubhouse.  Here it is in use by it's rightful occupants.
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Oct 3, 2016 22:14
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Why did they drop firearms charges against Shawna Cox?
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Oct 4, 2016 00:36
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Casimir Radon posted:Why did they drop firearms charges against Shawna Cox? They found a firearm in her car along with her ID, but couldn't prove the firearm belonged to her.
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Oct 4, 2016 00:39
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https://twitter.com/maxoregonian/status/783073504673476608
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Oct 4, 2016 00:59
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http://www.timesofisrael.com/oregon-militia-members-blow-battle-trumpet-shofars/ There's criticism of technique: quote:The guys in the video don’t nail the staccato “tekiah gedolah” style heard in synagogues on Rosh Hashanah. But they get an A for anarchistic effort.
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Oct 4, 2016 01:15
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the defense is hinging the entire opening of their case on the testimony of one of Eastern Oregon's patented loner hermit weirdos: (also they accidentally proved part of the prosecutions allegations) http://www.opb.org/news/series/burns-oregon-standoff-bundy-militia-news-updates/oregon-standoff-trial-ammon-bundy-david-fry/ quote:The Defense’s Theory About Weapons they also called Fry's dad up which is less funny and more super sad 
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Oct 5, 2016 00:32
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Prokhor Zakharov posted:There were two, one was out over the edge of the lake, and the other was on top of the firewatch tower that the evildoers were using as a sniper perch/lookout post. The tower wasn't used by the refuge so they turned it into a big owl hangout/nesting spot. It was super cool and I hope the owls'll come back to their cool owl clubhouse. isnt glass kinda dangerous around birds, due to risk of birdstrike?
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Oct 5, 2016 02:33
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quote:When Briels would visit, he said, a white pickup truck was parked at the refuge entrance with armed guards standing by. The guards would radio back to people on the refuge for approval. The truck would back up, clearing a path, and Briels would proceed onto the refuge, according to his testimony. Because we all know the Feds wouldn't just bulldoze that over with an armored truck
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Oct 5, 2016 02:33
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SocketWrench posted:Because we all know the Feds wouldn't just bulldoze that over with an armored truck Well, in fairness, the Feds presumably didn't want to trigger another Waco or Ruby Ridge, which is why they did things the way they did.
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Oct 5, 2016 02:34
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Phobophilia posted:isnt glass kinda dangerous around birds, due to risk of birdstrike? With the muntins I doubt it’s a problem.
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Oct 5, 2016 02:38
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The crazy is loose today https://twitter.com/maxoregonian/status/783458328303144960 https://twitter.com/maxoregonian/status/783433772955897856 https://twitter.com/CTRNewsFeed/status/783404550682087424 https://twitter.com/Oregonian/status/783480468624642049
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Oct 5, 2016 02:43
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Pretty sure that a crime.
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Oct 5, 2016 03:05
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I guess the judge ruled against cowboy cosplay? Not only no boots, but he's in jail scrubs.  lol
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Oct 5, 2016 04:24
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Young Freud posted:Pretty sure that a crime. If screenshots of screenshots of screenshots aren't a crime yet they really should be
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Oct 5, 2016 06:44
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Young Freud posted:Pretty sure that a crime. What's being alleged here?
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Oct 5, 2016 07:35
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theflyingexecutive posted:What's being alleged here? being a real fuckin dick
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Oct 5, 2016 08:01
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theflyingexecutive posted:What's being alleged here? The Facebook post that's screenshotted is describing jurors who objected to a Bundy supporters' shirt suggesting jury nullification. While it doesn't drop names, it gives their numbers, their ages, and speculation about occupation that could be use to identify them and intimidate them.
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Oct 5, 2016 08:02
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Prokhor Zakharov posted:the defense is hinging the entire opening of their case on the testimony of one of Eastern Oregon's patented loner hermit weirdos: So part of the argument is that they were totally justified in stockpiling weapons in their illegal takeover of federal land because they were afraid of the Feds responding? That's like saying bank robbers are totally right to keep hostages because they are worried about the cops. The idea that anything they did could possibly be wrong in any way continues to elude them.
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Oct 5, 2016 09:24
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Mors Rattus posted:Well, in fairness, the Feds presumably didn't want to trigger another Waco or Ruby Ridge, which is why they did things the way they did. Well yeah. But taking from the Bundy bunch and their belief the government would drop the hammer, you'd think a pickup truck and a couple guys would be like nothing when it comes to some sort of defense
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Oct 5, 2016 10:21
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Young Freud posted:The Facebook post that's screenshotted is describing jurors who objected to a Bundy supporters' shirt suggesting jury nullification. While it doesn't drop names, it gives their numbers, their ages, and speculation about occupation that could be use to identify them and intimidate them. I thought jury nullification would be the jury returning a verdict of "not guilty" even if they believed that the defendants were guilty of the violation charged. A shirt with defendants' names and not guilty could just be an attempt to sway the decision, perhaps. But it's very likely I don't know the correct terms.
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Oct 5, 2016 10:28
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Maybe Jury Nullifications shirts are in this season.
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Oct 5, 2016 10:58
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I would blow Dane Cook posted:Maybe Jury Nullifications shirts are in this season. For a few years at least. I was dating an attorney 6ish years ago who was mad about this sort of thing: http://www.zazzle.com/youve_just_begun_reading_about_jury_nullification_t_shirt-235966232853064181
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Oct 5, 2016 11:09
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Geostomp posted:So part of the argument is that they were totally justified in stockpiling weapons in their illegal takeover of federal land because they were afraid of the Feds responding? That's like saying bank robbers are totally right to keep hostages because they are worried about the cops. The idea that anything they did could possibly be wrong in any way continues to elude them. Well I think their argument is that they were afraid of the feds before the takeover because something something false flag states rights FEMA death camps something, hence why they called a literal insane man to the stand to testify that he followed around some FBI agents who were totally gang stalking him this one time you guys honest
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Oct 5, 2016 13:23
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lol quote:Bundy became emotional on the stand several times, his voice quivering as he described how "useless'' it seems fighting against federal authorities who have put his father, his brothers and him behind bars. poor baby 
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Oct 5, 2016 14:00
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WrenP-Complete posted:I thought jury nullification would be the jury returning a verdict of "not guilty" even if they believed that the defendants were guilty of the violation charged. A shirt with defendants' names and not guilty could just be an attempt to sway the decision, perhaps. But it's very likely I don't know the correct terms. It's closer to doxxing. Describing the jurors on Facebook could be construed as trying to *nudge nudge wink wink* get some wacky follower to intimidate the juror into hanging the jury. Nullification is when a jury decides to ignore the judges instruction and letter of the law because they feel the law is unjust. For example, in the antebellum South juries would refuse to find members of lynch mobs guilty even with clear evidence. But on the flip side, in the North juries would refuse to find people guilty who sheltered or assisted escaped slaves despite the runaway slave laws in place.
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Oct 5, 2016 14:14
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evilweasel posted:lol lol they're like the waterfall family from futurama except they keep going to jail instead of dying
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Oct 5, 2016 14:29
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ate all the Oreos posted:Well I think their argument is that they were afraid of the feds before the takeover because something something false flag states rights FEMA death camps something, hence why they called a literal insane man to the stand to testify that he followed around some FBI agents who were totally gang stalking him this one time you guys honest Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean
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Oct 5, 2016 14:29
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Platystemon posted:Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean No you see it was self-defense! Long, planned-out self-defense that involved a lot of talking about how it was a revolution and not at all self defense!
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Oct 5, 2016 14:40
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evilweasel posted:lol Aww, poor little privileged man-baby getting a crash course in the real world. 
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Oct 5, 2016 14:41
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Alkydere posted:Aww, poor little privileged man-baby getting a crash course in the real world. My just world fallacy, we were supposed to win 
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Oct 5, 2016 14:49
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To be fair I also resent the fact that it is hard to get away with breaking the law.
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Oct 5, 2016 14:50
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