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I mean yes, it was an existential struggle between tribes for land. If either side could exterminate the other quickly they would have. I'm sure natives prayed to their gods for the utter destruction of the invaders through whatever means available. But the atrocities were going both ways. Ever hear of scalping? Torture was common too. It was a brutal hellscape of plague and war. History is a rough place. The Native Americans were genocidal towards one another. It's not like some big hippie camp the white man waltzed into.
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Apr 19, 2017 20:59
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Spunky Psycho Ho posted:It actually seems historically debatable if it ever happened, or if it can scientifically even work (smallpox not being easily transmitted through those means). Lord Jeffrey Amherst posted:Could it not be contrived to send the small pox among the disaffected tribes of Indians? We must on this occasion use every stratagem in our power to reduce them.
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Apr 19, 2017 21:02
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Spunky Psycho Ho posted:I mean yes, it was an existential struggle between tribes for land. If either side could exterminate the other quickly they would have. I'm sure natives prayed to their gods for the utter destruction of the invaders through whatever means available. But the atrocities were going both ways. Ever hear of scalping? Torture was common too. It was a brutal hellscape of plague and war. I disagree with the idea that they were genocidal, like yeah they had wars and were brutal as any other human, but the kind of systemic wiping out other people's completely was a pretty unique marker of colonialism.
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Apr 19, 2017 21:03
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Apr 19, 2017 21:04
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Mordor She Wrote posted:I disagree with the idea that they were genocidal, like yeah they had wars and were brutal as any other human, but the kind of systemic wiping out other people's completely was a pretty unique marker of colonialism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salting_the_earth Wiping people off the face of the earth did not start with colonials
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Apr 19, 2017 21:05
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yeah gee wow..some africans even participated in the slave trade wow hmmm, makes ya think. complex issue. maybe they are actually just as bad? I bet some jews in 1930s germany were not even really very good dudes. maybe even some were criminals?... hmmmmmmm the hot takes I'm opening up to now that my vision isn't clouded by liberal lies.
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Apr 19, 2017 21:05
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Spunky Psycho Ho posted:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salting_the_earth No one claimed it did. Address what's being argued, you dissembling coward.
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Apr 19, 2017 21:05
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Majorian posted:No one claimed it did. Address what's being argued, you dissembling coward. You quoted the one correspondence that is used to make the claim that there was wipespread blanket handouts to give the Natives smallpox. I already posted an article saying that while the one guy wanted to try it, it's barely scientifically to do it. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/13/science/13mqa.html
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Apr 19, 2017 21:08
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Spunky Psycho Ho posted:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salting_the_earth Wow all those examples of genociding multiple ethnic groups and nations in there, oh wait, there's just a couple cities.
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Apr 19, 2017 21:09
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Spunky Psycho Ho posted:You quoted the one correspondence that is used to make the claim that there was wipespread blanket handouts to give the Natives smallpox. I already posted an article saying that while the one guy wanted to try it, it's barely scientifically to do it. You keep moving those goalposts. This is literally something you posted just a couple posts ago: Spunky Psycho Ho posted:If you read the quote it sounds like they were giving the blankets to emissaries as a thank you for not attacking, as legitimately a gift, it's actually pretty fuzzy if you read it You posted this because you are an idiot.
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Apr 19, 2017 21:12
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You guys think that the white man invented evil on earth. It's stunningly idiotic
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Apr 19, 2017 21:14
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no, we're just not so loving moronic that we think the white man's actions aren't a big deal cuz like, brown people do bad stuff sometimes ya know.
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Apr 19, 2017 21:17
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bag em and tag em posted:no, we're just not so loving moronic that we think the white man's actions aren't a big deal cuz like, brown people do bad stuff sometimes ya know. They were all doing the same thing to each other. And we look back and say that it was wrong to do so, so we're learning how to be better
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Apr 19, 2017 21:21
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bag em and tag em posted:no, we're just not so loving moronic that we think the white man's actions aren't a big deal cuz like, brown people do bad stuff sometimes ya know. Just like it's moronic to blame all black people for violence because they are arrested and incarcerate more for violent crime, it's moronic to blame all white people for the actions of what some do, unless you are the type of person who like to group people together and hold the many responsible for the actions of the few. I think there is a word for that, starts with racist.
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Apr 19, 2017 21:24
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Poetic Justice posted:Just like it's moronic to blame all black people for violence because they are arrested and incarcerate more for violent crime, it's moronic to blame all white people for the actions of what some do, unless you are the type of person who like to group people together and hold the many responsible for the actions of the few. I think there is a word for that, starts with racist. Spunky is trying to brush aside killing off native americans as an accident, and when it was pointed out that he was a very stupid person he backpedalled to "well both sides were bad actually." also, you are not addressing anything related to my point in any way. you're trying to come in with a "the real racist....is you" but you're doing a bad job.
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Apr 19, 2017 21:32
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I don't think genocide is some how endemic to the white experience, as I haven't killed off an entire group of people, or even one person (yet), but the mix of technology and ideology pretty much lead to European settlers committing genocide, in bizarro world yes, any other ethnic group could have potentially done it, but they didn't.
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Apr 19, 2017 21:36
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Mordor She Wrote posted:I don't think genocide is some how endemic to the white experience, as I haven't killed off an entire group of people, or even one person (yet), but the mix of technology and ideology pretty much lead to European settlers committing genocide, in bizarro world yes, any other ethnic group could have potentially done it, but they didn't. quote:Ben Kiernan has labelled the destruction of Carthage at the end of the Third Punic War (149–146 BCE) "The First Genocide".
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Apr 19, 2017 21:38
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Spunky Psycho Ho posted:They were all doing the same thing to each other. And we look back and say that it was wrong to do so, so we're learning how to be better Well, some of us are. Youre taking notes on how to better subjugate non-whites if you ever get the chance.
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Apr 19, 2017 21:38
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bag em and tag em posted:Spunky is trying to brush aside killing off native americans as an accident, and when it was pointed out that he was a very stupid person he backpedalled to "well both sides were bad actually." Instead of using phrases like "the white man's actions" perhaps you should use less racist language then? I think there is browser plug in that changes "white man" to "black woman". You should install that to see how somethingawful bf fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Apr 19, 2017 |
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Apr 19, 2017 21:39
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Mordor She Wrote posted:I don't think genocide is some how endemic to the white experience, as I haven't killed off an entire group of people, or even one person (yet), but the mix of technology and ideology pretty much lead to European settlers committing genocide, in bizarro world yes, any other ethnic group could have potentially done it, but they didn't. Also, do you know of this group called the Mongols. Holy poo poo, you guys think history started in 1706 or something lmao
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Apr 19, 2017 21:40
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White imperialists
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Apr 19, 2017 21:40
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Spunky Psycho Ho posted:Also, do you know of this group called the Mongols. Mongols conquered and even if they wrote about killing all their enemies, which ethnic groups did they almost successfully wipe off the planet?
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Apr 19, 2017 21:42
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Poetic Justice posted:Instead of using phrases like "the white man's actions" perhaps you should use less racist language then? I think there is browser plug in that changes "white man" to "black woman". You should install that to see how stupid and racist it sounds when you use those kind of broad, generalizing terms. I was parroting Spunky's own words to mock him. gee willigers you seem to be flailing about randomly at me and not based on any understanding of the posts involved. I'm sure you can do better if you slow down a little and think though. I believe in you.
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Apr 19, 2017 21:45
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This argument about who was worse hundreds of years ago is idiotic.
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Apr 19, 2017 21:44
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Mordor She Wrote posted:Mongols conquered and even if they wrote about killing all their enemies, which ethnic groups did they almost successfully wipe off the planet? During the Mongol conquests of the 13th century, numerous cultures were annihilated, such as the Western Xia (Xi Xia) Empire of the Tangut people, which lasted until the Mongol conquest of Western Xia in 1227. If you're thinking, "Huh? Tanguts? Who are they?", you're not alone. The Tanguts are little known to anyone other than experts in the field precisely because of Genghis Khan's policy of calling for their complete eradication after they betrayed him in his campaigns against other Central Asians. Although Genghis Khan died during his war against the Tanguts, his victorious army made sure to destroy them as thoroughly as possible, killing every Tangut they saw and burning everything else to the ground. This is one of the most magnificent instances of an entire civilization --- its people, culture, history, records, literature, art, music, buildings, etc. --- being wiped off the face of the Earth. The only artifact that remained was a Buddhist monastery in the capital. According to British historian John Man, "There is a case to be made that this was the first ever recorded example of attempted genocide. It was certainly very successful ethnocide." The few Tanguts that survived either fled to Song China, Tibet, and even possibly India, or joined the Mongols armies, participating in the Mongol invasion of China. Eventually, they established small Tangut communities in the Chinese provinces of Anhui and Henan. They continued to preserve the Tangut language until these communities were finally assimilated in the 16th century.
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Apr 19, 2017 21:44
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Mordor She Wrote posted:Mongols conquered and even if they wrote about killing all their enemies, which ethnic groups did they almost successfully wipe off the planet? mordor we're on the same side, but I gotta ask you not to stick your neck out for the golden horde. e: oh examples were provided, fun somewhat relevant is that the mongols practiced biological warfare at least once, by launching the corpses of soldiers dead of the black plague over the walls of a city (someplace in crimea, apparently)
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Apr 19, 2017 21:46
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Mordor She Wrote posted:Mongols conquered and even if they wrote about killing all their enemies, which ethnic groups did they almost successfully wipe off the planet? You can look this up yourself you know quote:Ancient sources described Genghis Khan's conquests as wholesale destruction on an unprecedented scale in certain geographical regions, causing great demographic changes in Asia. According to the works of the Iranian historian Rashid al-Din (1247–1318), the Mongols killed more than 700,000 people in Merv and more than a million in Nishapur. The total population of Persia may have dropped from 2,500,000 to 250,000 as a result of mass extermination and famine.
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Apr 19, 2017 21:47
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Poetic Justice posted:, or joined the Mongols armies, participating in the Mongol invasion of China. Eventually, they established small Tangut communities in the Chinese provinces of Anhui and Henan. They continued to preserve the Tangut language until these communities were finally assimilated in the 16th century. hmmm
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Apr 19, 2017 21:46
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If that is what you got out of that whole post, I dunno what to tell ya man  You just want to pick the one sentence that semi makes you feel less incorrect, but I understand.
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Apr 19, 2017 21:47
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It's always funny watching spunky quoting things contradicting his opinions. Like he just quickly Googles something to keep trolling without realizing it makes him look like a 12 years old who keeps pretending he totally knows what he's talking about
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Apr 19, 2017 21:49
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World War Mammories posted:mordor we're on the same side, but I gotta ask you not to stick your neck out for the golden horde. e: oh examples were provided, fun Not saying the Golden Horde is good, relative to its time it was like 9000 Mega Hitlers voltron'd together but they weren't practicing systemic racial genocide.
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Apr 19, 2017 21:49
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Mordor She Wrote posted:Mongols conquered and even if they wrote about killing all their enemies, which ethnic groups did they almost successfully wipe off the planet? They were systematically wiped out. That doesn't mean none existed anywhere, forever.
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Apr 19, 2017 21:50
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I love how this thread exists in a parallel universe in tandem to reality
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Apr 19, 2017 21:50
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Watching posters ITT suddenly realize that human history consists of little more than one group of people doing horrible things to another group is hilarious to watch.
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Apr 19, 2017 21:51
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Mordor She Wrote posted:Not saying the Golden Horde is good, relative to its time it was like 9000 Mega Hitlers voltron'd together but they weren't practicing systemic racial genocide. What the hell are you even saying "Genghis Khan brutally exterminated 5% of the world population, but it wasn't as bad as..."
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Apr 19, 2017 21:52
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a bone to pick posted:I love how this thread exists in a parallel universe in tandem to reality This is also how I feel about President Donald Trump
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Apr 19, 2017 21:52
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Mordor She Wrote posted:Not saying the Golden Horde is good, relative to its time it was like 9000 Mega Hitlers voltron'd together but they weren't practicing systemic racial genocide. Oh boy.
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Apr 19, 2017 21:54
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Spunky Psycho Ho posted:What the hell are you even saying "Genghis Khan brutally exterminated 5% of the world population, but it wasn't as bad as..." The gas chambers
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Apr 19, 2017 21:54
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Khan did nothing wrong.
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Apr 19, 2017 21:54
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Kill the rich Feed the hungry Punch every Nazi
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Apr 19, 2017 21:56
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L