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Ammanas posted:So here's my ideal car: I don't know what to tell you because V6 / powerful turbo 4 midsize cars don't get 30mpg combined. If you want a mid 2000s TL, you should probably just get a current V6 Accord, or maybe go drive a current Chevy Impala. Probably the Accord though. Neither of them will do 30mpg though. It looks like a 2004 Acura TL is rated at 18mpg city, 21 combined on premium fuel.
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Oct 2, 2016 23:58
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Twerk from Home posted:I don't know what to tell you because V6 / powerful turbo 4 midsize cars don't get 30mpg combined. If you want a mid 2000s TL, you should probably just get a current V6 Accord, or maybe go drive a current Chevy Impala. Probably the Accord though. Neither of them will do 30mpg though. Also remember that turbo motors that get decent EPA miles, tend to not get decent FE in the real world unless you drive like a major grandma. Also note that they get that FE with tall gearing, which keeps you in low RPMS, which means out of the boost, which means that even my 300hp car needs to be downshifted to get some oomph (unless I'm going pretty fast) despite being geared quite a bit lower than many cars. Also, what is punchy to you? I've had people complain I'm accelerating too fast in my 100hp/98ft lb mazda. Most people don't actually floor cars, so they buy a 300hp car and never use my than 100hp because they both don't press the pedal more than a mm and never get above 300RPM.
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Oct 3, 2016 00:21
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The transmission plays a big part in how punchy the car feels. Go drive a 2.5l Mazda with the Skyactive transmission which shifts incredibly fast and come back and tell us it's not punchy enough.
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Oct 3, 2016 01:08
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Throatwarbler posted:The transmission plays a big part in how punchy the car feels. Go drive a 2.5l Mazda with the Skyactive transmission which shifts incredibly fast and come back and tell us it's not punchy enough. Yup. It has 80hp less but at least upon initial roll in on the throttle, my CR-V feels more responsive than my Jeep because the Jeep transmission is so easily confused.
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Oct 3, 2016 01:37
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Civic is a mid size car now?
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Oct 3, 2016 03:46
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Nitrox posted:Civic is a mid size car now? Its larger than its been, on the small side of midsize. Im pretty fluid as far as that goes, just no tiny econoboxes and no VW GTIs. nm posted:Also remember that turbo motors that get decent EPA miles, tend to not get decent FE in the real world unless you drive like a major grandma. Also note that they get that FE with tall gearing, which keeps you in low RPMS, which means out of the boost, which means that even my 300hp car needs to be downshifted to get some oomph (unless I'm going pretty fast) despite being geared quite a bit lower than many cars. Punchy is slightly slower than my f4i  Thats interesting about turbos cutting FE depending on use. Honda claims new civic gets 32 combined iirc. So far id like to test drive the new civic hatch, a mazda 3, and a focus...yeah im lukewarm-hatchin it baby Ammanas fucked around with this message at 04:44 on Oct 3, 2016 |
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Oct 3, 2016 04:12
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The Mazda 3 hatch or the 6 might be agreeable to you as well. They're not beasts, but with their nice transmission they're peppy enough and get great gas mileage.
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Oct 3, 2016 04:32
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Nitrox posted:Civic is a mid size car now? Civics are basically the size of a 90s accord now.. I was surprised at how much room they have, and how big they've gotten, especially the last 2 generations. I'd say fit is small/compact Civic is midsized Accord is full sized.
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Oct 3, 2016 04:33
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Ammanas posted:Its larger than its been, on the small side of midsize. Im pretty fluid as far as that goes, just no tiny econoboxes and no VW GTIs. GM Toyota and Chrysler don't make anything interesting in the segment, the golf is a vw and I don't think the focus st gets 30mpg. Hyundai and Kia probably have some kind of lukewarm hatch between them but historically they've all beEn terrible. Throatwarbler fucked around with this message at 05:14 on Oct 3, 2016 |
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Oct 3, 2016 05:11
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Not to ignite a really dumb AI firestorm but stick in California traffic is a nightmare. Did it for two years and will never ever do again.
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Oct 3, 2016 06:26
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Ammanas posted:Not to ignite a really dumb AI firestorm but stick in California traffic is a nightmare. Did it for two years and will never ever do again. As a former resident of socal, you need to HTFU. The problem is most people try to drive in traffic the same way with a manual as they do in an auto. You just have to figure out how to do it all in 1st (or 2nd if it is moving a bit). You have to be going really slow to stall 2nd and basically crawling at 1st. You don't actually have to stop if you leave the right amount of space (which is defined as slightly less than the amount where someone will cut in front of you). Every time I commuted with an auto (rental car), it was way worse because you have to use the brakes and stop. If the GTI weren't a VW, I'd recommend that. Probably a 2.5 mazda 3. edit: Allegedly the new sentra is a massive POS. Which isn't shocking because it is a loving Nissan made after 2000(ish).
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Oct 3, 2016 06:32
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I get like 26 mpg combined in my focus ST so that's out. Ford Fusion hybrid or something like that?
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Oct 3, 2016 12:01
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Thermopyle posted:The Mazda 3 hatch or the 6 might be agreeable to you as well. They're not beasts, but with their nice transmission they're peppy enough and get great gas mileage. Here's the last time I filled the tank on my '08 Mazda3 -- I got just under 500mi on it.
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Oct 3, 2016 17:46
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My dad ran over my brother's 2003 Civic. Like backed into it with a Tahoe and its totaled. The Tahoe got a new bumper cover. Any suggestions beyond "another Civic?" Proposed Budget: $4000-$6000 New or Used: Used Body Style: 4 door midsize and up How will you be using the car?: Mainly commuting What aspects are most important to you? Reliability, maintenance, not being crushed like a Capri Sun
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Oct 3, 2016 17:49
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At the high end of that price range, you might be able to get into a 2008-2009 Mazda3.
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Oct 3, 2016 18:16
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Mr. Powers posted:At the high end of that price range, you might be able to get into a 2008-2009 Mazda3. This is in the northeast. Weren't Mazdas of that era known for rusting fairly easily?
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Oct 3, 2016 18:39
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I've heard anecdotally that Mazda mostly resolved the rusting issue by '07 models rolling out. I'll be putting mine through its first Chicago winter this year, but I'm seeing enough of them around that it doesn't appear to be apparent on newer models if at all.
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Oct 3, 2016 18:50
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FogHelmut posted:This is in the northeast. Weren't Mazdas of that era known for rusting fairly easily? My understanding, like the previous poster, is that 2008+ does not have the same rust issues. I'm not certain about 2007, though. There were definitely a few specimens in the greater southern NH area close to that price point, but they were 100k+, and I'm not familiar enough with Mazdas to sign up for that (so I went with one that had 61,000 km).
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Oct 3, 2016 19:34
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The 2012+ models have the Skyactiv motor which gets 40mpg.
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Oct 3, 2016 19:53
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Bill NYSE posted:I've heard anecdotally that Mazda mostly resolved the rusting issue by '07 models rolling out. I'll be putting mine through its first Chicago winter this year, but I'm seeing enough of them around that it doesn't appear to be apparent on newer models if at all. Anecdotal but my 09 in Maryland is fine and I have a job where I can't really call off snow days. There's actually a big bag of ice melt sitting in the back of it too which is probably tempting fate.
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Oct 3, 2016 20:24
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nm posted:As a former resident of socal, you need to HTFU. The problem is most people try to drive in traffic the same way with a manual as they do in an auto. You just have to figure out how to do it all in 1st (or 2nd if it is moving a bit). You have to be going really slow to stall 2nd and basically crawling at 1st. You don't actually have to stop if you leave the right amount of space (which is defined as slightly less than the amount where someone will cut in front of you). I've driven sticks in traffic for 20+ years in the Bay Area and this is spot on. I almost get more annoyed in an automatic having to keep a foot on the brake to keep the car from lurching into the car in front of me. The good thing about newer sticks is the cars usually have enough torque now to just chug along slowly in 1st gear. You still get owned on slight inclines though and GOD FORBID you leave more than 3 feet in front of you or 10 cars will try to squeeze in there (I let the first one in usually). Also, you will constantly have people up your rear end leaving stops as everyone else just mashes the accelerator full blast while you have to engage, shift and pull away without looking like a raceboy and peeling out....
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Oct 4, 2016 02:04
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Just bought a 2012 Prius v. My prior car is a Miata and it took me a while to come around to the Prius. I wanted a hatchback, something reliable and efficient with more seats and more cargo room. I also wanted an automatic transmission for my girlfriend's benefit. From reading reviews I expected to like the Mazda3 best. It was good, really good, but not as fun as I expected coming from the Miata. I might have gotten one if I could find a 2014+ for the right price, but I couldn't. I also test drove a Fit. The cargo space was really impressive but nothing else about it stood out to me. While I would've considered a Mazda3 for the right price, I crossed the Fit off my list after driving it. The Mazda3 was more refined and the Prius seemed like a better "budget" option. I expected the Prius to be efficient but miserable to drive. And it didn't win me over by being great to drive, it just wasn't as bad as I expected. After a couple test drives I decided I could live with one. The Prius v wasn't really on my radar, but then I came across one for about the same price as a comparable Prius hatchback. It was slightly slower and bigger than the hatchback, but I'd already given up on fun so that wasn't a problem. The rear seat has way more space than in the hatchback and the extra cargo room is a nice plus. This particular car had the advanced tech package with radar cruise control, pre-collision system, and dual moon roofs. I bought it without hesitating. It's only been a few days but I love it so far. Most of my driving is on the highway sitting traffic or around town and it seems great for that. I only wish that it didn't look like a little minivan. And that the turning radius was smaller.
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Oct 4, 2016 03:24
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Let's call this the Escape the City for the Weekend Car. Proposed Budget: $7,000, but preferably $5,000-$6,000 (or less if sensible). Top goal here is bang for the buck over the lifetime of ownership. We could get financing with $7,000 down but I doubt it would make sense given my use-case. New or Used: Used Body Style: Compact/Mid-size. Definitely 4-door. It will mostly be 2 of us in the car but a few times a year we'll have 4-5 adults in there so something that can reasonably, not necessarily perfectly comfortably, fit 4 adults and some bags for a 2-3 hour drive. How will you be using the car?: We haven't owned a vehicle for 7 years. We take public transit every day and are looking for something to use on weekends to visit family and friends outside the city and go on some longer trips (400-600 mi r/t). My back of the napkin calculation puts us at about 4k miles per year and pretty much no way more than 5k or 6k. At the same time there may be times this car isn't driven for 2 weeks or more at a time, if that's an issue. It'll be parked outside on the street. I'm also in the Northeast, so snow is a thing, but I will rarely NEED to get anywhere in the bad snow. Pretty clearly, all other things being equal, I'll be looking at a newer model year and higher mileage vehicle. What aspects are most important to you?: (In order)Value- I feel like we have enough financial flexibility to find a good fit, but I don't want to overspend and have this thing pointlessly depreciate while it's sitting around not getting used. Reliability- When we do have occasion to use it, it will be because we have significant plans like a holiday or vacation, so I want it to work. Longevity- I'd prefer to not have to worry about getting something else for a while. Size w/in the class- Moving around 5 people plus some luggage or a mid-size piece of furniture would be a nice bonus. Specific Wants: Power windows. I'd also want it to feel comfortable and safe to drive. I've been in a few friends' relatively new cars that feel like they are made of plastic and will shake apart going 75 mph. A backup camera would be great for parallel parking. Things I don't care about : Fun to drive. Looks. Why not a Prius? (I probably want and would be very happy with a Prius) The best argument is that I don't receive the benefits of the additional gas mileage. I started off looking at Priuses then was looking at Corollas and Camrys now I'm back more towards the Prius given the discussion a few pages back. I'd still like to consider all options, so let me know if I'm missing anything. If not, the question then becomes WHAT Prius? Where is my model year/mileage sweet spot?
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Oct 5, 2016 02:54
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Considering insurance and maintenance you're probably better off just renting a car when you need one.
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Oct 5, 2016 03:02
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Throatwarbler posted:Considering insurance and maintenance you're probably better off just renting a car when you need one. We've been doing this, but I think we've reached the tipping point. We spent $850 on local rentals within the last year, plus another ~$600 on Ubers and public transit for which we would have used a car. Other events (people moving, including friends with borrow-able cars) have made it so our car needs will be higher next year. Not to mention ownership means a huge convenience upgrade and not missing out on things because it's not "worth" the rental or because its a pain-in-the-rear end due to transit timing. A quick look back at the calendar and we could have used a car at least 36 of the last 52 weekends for significant travel and that doesn't count stuff like "come over for dinner" or "come by and watch the game." I'm happy to reconsider if I'm way off on my numbers, but I think it's car time. Fuzzie Dunlop fucked around with this message at 03:41 on Oct 5, 2016 |
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Oct 5, 2016 03:19
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Just buy the prius. The reason to buy it isn't the FE, it is that it is reliable as hell. Remember with low miles, you need to do services based on time, not miles. Your owners manual will give those (like oil change every 5000mi or 6mo or whatever). If you do a lot of short, urban trips, consider using the "extreme conditions" recommendation as short trips are harder on oil in particular. This is another area the prius excels at as it doesn't stress the engine as much in slow, start stop driving. (One of the main reasons the prius is so reliable is that the electric motor does a lot of the heavy lifting.)
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Oct 5, 2016 03:46
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Sits on Pilster posted:Purely in terms of TCO, would a 2011 Prius with 90k miles justify a $3k premium versus a 2008 Prius with 100k miles? 2008 is 2nd generation Prius and 2011 is 3rd generation. They got different design & different engine. 3rd gen is better, but it is up to you if it is $3k better.
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Oct 5, 2016 09:57
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Fuzzie Dunlop posted:I'm happy to reconsider if I'm way off on my numbers, but I think it's car time. It's obviously your call but that $600 on ubers will be eaten up by insurance right off the bat, if not more, and while the numbers might make sense to you, it certainly looks like not dealing with the hassle of owning a car would be worth just continuing to rent. You're also probably not considering that living in the city and parking on the street you're going to have to move that sucker from one side to the other (or off that street entirely if it's a snow route) when it snows or they want to sweep the street. But yeah if you're going to buy a car just get the Prius.
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Oct 5, 2016 13:53
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Cities issue permits for residents, that allow more liberal use of street parking. They bypass some sign restrictions, like 2 hour limit and such. Either way, you have a one time purchase price, plus fees and taxes. Then routine maintenance cost. Registration and insurance reoccurring cost. And probably parking and permits. Not sure what your napkin math looks like, but you have to use Uber and rentals for several years, before breaking even remotely even. I only mention because you're framing this from cost savings angle. If you can afford the expense, by all means, by a Prius.
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Oct 5, 2016 14:02
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There's a pain-in-the-rear end factor for car ownership as well. First, there is the pain-in-the-rear end factor for acquisition, registration, etc. Then, when the car breaks, you have to take it somewhere to get it fixed, wasting your time. You have to take it for oil changes - not the biggest amount of time, but still annoying and significant. Last year, you spent about $120/mo on vehicle transportation (not including fuel expenses which is basically a wash). Net cash flow on a monthly basis you'll be hard pressed to do much better than break even, and that's ignoring the initial asset cost and the hassle of ownership. The whole point of living in a city is so that you don't have to own a car. Don't be BWM like me!
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Oct 5, 2016 14:21
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Well it's not like there's no pain-in-the-rear end factor of having to rent a car either. But yeah, from a cost standpoint owning a car isn't a slam dunk for you. But there's also nothing wrong with just getting a Prius.
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Oct 5, 2016 14:52
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Thermopyle posted:Well it's not like there's no pain-in-the-rear end factor of having to rent a car either. Right, just saying that in mentioning ownership as a "huge convenience upgrade" he's probably discounting the inconveniences of car ownership, especially in a city (I get to move my car to alternate sides of the street each week, and plan very carefully where it's parked if I am gone for a week, etc).
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Oct 5, 2016 14:53
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Right, just saying that in mentioning ownership as a "huge convenience upgrade" he's probably discounting the inconveniences of car ownership, especially in a city (I get to move my car to alternate sides of the street each week, and plan very carefully where it's parked if I am gone for a week, etc). I appreciate everyone's discussion on the topic and I'm going to take a harder look at the numbers to see how much MORE we'll be spending by buying. When I said value in my OP, I meant for what we actually end up spending on the car, if that makes sense. I understand we are going to spend more with a car than without one and we are fine with that. I've been car free for 7 years, I'm the last person that wants to pull the trigger here but it's gotten to that point. The amount we spent on transport last year doesn't factor in all the places we WOULD have gone if we had the convenience of a car. If I want to watch a football game with friends 30 minutes away, public transit or renting a car turns it either from a 4 to a 7 hour ordeal (due to schedules) or costs $100. That trip just didnt happen last year. With a car, we'd also have access to a cheaper grocery store, laundromat, etc. I also appreciate the reminders about the pitfalls of city car ownership, and I'm aware of what we are getting into with parking availability, snow, sweeping etc, although my neighborhood isn't nearly as bad as yours, Kyoon. So what should I be looking for as far as years and mileage?
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Oct 5, 2016 15:55
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Do you have Zipcar in your city? Back when I was car-free, I had 10 ish cars available in a quarter mile radius. It was about as convenient as car ownership for the shorter trips like those you mention. Anyway, buy a Prius and be done with it. Lowest cost of ownership you can find. All modern cars are safe to drive at post-highway speeds even if you somehow think otherwise (the shaking at 75mph is probably due to a lovely alignment, which tends to happen on Northeast roads, not some flaw with the car itself).
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Oct 5, 2016 16:03
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Rent some cars and see which one you like. 
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Oct 5, 2016 16:08
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Throatwarbler posted:Rent some cars and see which one you like. While a good idea, I don't think any rental car companies are in the business of renting $7,000 cars.
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Oct 5, 2016 16:14
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Fuzzie Dunlop posted:I appreciate everyone's discussion on the topic and I'm going to take a harder look at the numbers to see how much MORE we'll be spending by buying. When I said value in my OP, I meant for what we actually end up spending on the car, if that makes sense. TCO is the word you're looking for: Total Cost of Ownership. This factors in every dollar spent because you own the vehicle. Capital cost, taxes, license, insurance, fuel, upkeep cost, permits, etc. You should use some online quoting things at major insurance carriers (e.g. state farm, safeco) and see how much your insurance is going to be - even a ballpark. Your insurance record is going to count against you. If you ever intend to own a car you're going to have to bite the bullet at some point and establish history.
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Oct 5, 2016 16:59
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:While a good idea, I don't think any rental car companies are in the business of renting $7,000 cars. Though some are pretty close. Zipcar had a whole bunch of the biggest piece of poo poo Nissan Versas money can buy. Like $13k new with an automatic transmission.
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Oct 5, 2016 17:35
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H110Hawk posted:TCO is the word you're looking for: Total Cost of Ownership. This factors in every dollar spent because you own the vehicle. Capital cost, taxes, license, insurance, fuel, upkeep cost, permits, etc. I used this online calculator and got an annual cost of ownership of $1,600-$1,800 depending on a $4,000 or $6,000 vehicle. This includes fuel, and ownership of 8 years including depreciation. So it seems like a slam dunk to me given my costs last year were at least $1,400, not including fuel. http://www.free-online-calculator-use.com/car-buying-calculator.html#calculator My biggest assumption is the $20/month maintenance costs but maybe I'm off. I've already gotten a quote from my renter's insurance company of $520 annually to add auto. I'm starting to lean more towards a 2008 vehicle for around $4,000 with 130-150k miles rather than a 2011 with the same miles for $6,000-$7,000. Thoughts?
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Oct 5, 2016 19:14
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Fuzzie Dunlop posted:My biggest assumption is the $20/month maintenance costs but maybe I'm off. I've already gotten a quote from my renter's insurance company of $520 annually to add auto. $20/mo maintenance sounds low if that's meant to be both maintenance and repairs. A set of tires is about $450 mounted, you're going to be paying $30-40 for an oil change every 6 months probably, and there's the big 4 figure repairs that cars of the age and mileage you're looking at have happen: automatic transmission and air conditioning.
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Oct 5, 2016 19:37
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