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Maneck posted:Trolls probably deserved a full balance pass, but it's nice that PP tossed this out there. I'm on team "Trolls are the worst" and think they need more than that, especially for their warbeasts because they are all almost the same other than Mulg. Literally all Trollblood warbeasts other than Mulg have SPD 5, the non-gargantuans all have DEF 12, the heavies all have ARM 18 and 30hp (the earthborn has 32 admittedly), while the lights all have 22hp. Five out of seven non-Mulg dire trolls have MAT 6 and two P+S 15 claws with a 1" reach. The light trolls are slightly better - there is actually a range of ARM (16-17, with one at 15) and a range of MAT and RAT from 5 to 6 - while they have actually genuinely interesting weapons. And then their gimmick is basically no-selling - from no selling attacks thanks to the Krielstone and Tough to e.g. the Krielstone blocking incorporeal.
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Dec 21, 2019 04:13
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As much as I love my trolls, and I've done pretty well with them, they are lacking range, speed (although Northkin isn't actually terrible here), accuracy, and firepower. These buffs help some things but the Blitzer, for instance, doesn't become playable because the gun is more accurate at short range. The problem is that the platform is overcosted, and all the Dire Trolls are over costed. You could drop the Bomber down another point and it would still not be too cheap. War Wagons are good enough to play but they can't put a lot of damage on a single target, and Hooch Haulers might as well not exist at 18 points. That thing should be a pure buffing platform and cost like 12 points max. Trolls still have to brick up around the stone to not get lit up with ease, which means they struggle super hard in a lot of 2019 scenarios unless, again, you're playing Northkin. I'm excited to see how some of the 2 x Archon + Hermit lists shape up for scenario play, but I'm not convinced it's got the hitting power it ought to. That being said I'm gonna start playing Calandra and Grissel 1 this year to see if I can get around some of these issues. Trolls have some warlocks with genuinely good spells but often mediocre feats and not a deep enough bench of animii options to warrant the price tag on their beasts. What makes me really sad is that there are almost no dedicated battlegroup casters in the faction and the ones that do exist aren't particularly strong. Oh and make Runeshapers 7 points and a Req option please and thanks
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Dec 21, 2019 07:35
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Anyone else remember when Hordes was first introduced and trolls were advertised as the ranged faction?
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Dec 21, 2019 16:07
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rydiafan posted:Anyone else remember when Hordes was first introduced and trolls were advertised as the ranged faction? I'm sorry what
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Dec 21, 2019 22:26
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I can kind of see it. They had.the Blitzer and bomber for heavies, and the spearthower as a light, where the other hordes factions were even more limited than that.
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Dec 22, 2019 08:43
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I guess if we're just talking about the battlegroups and primal releases, uh... sure? I'm trying to wrap my head around that 
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Dec 22, 2019 09:27
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How many legion beasts don't have a ranged attack?
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Dec 22, 2019 18:12
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The scythean uhhhhh...... and one or two nephilim?
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Dec 22, 2019 19:29
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rydiafan posted:Anyone else remember when Hordes was first introduced and trolls were advertised as the ranged faction? The only troll warlocks I have are Gunnbjorn, Grim Angus, Jarl Skuld, and Grissel2. Checks out to me.
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Dec 22, 2019 19:42
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S.J. posted:The scythean uhhhhh...... and one or two nephilim? Scythean is relatively new, no? Carnivean was the first heavy, I thought, and that has a ranged attack.
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Dec 22, 2019 20:06
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Yeah that's correct. I dunno man.
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Dec 22, 2019 20:16
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True, but that is a spray. I'm not sure if the ravigore was among the initial legion releases?
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Dec 23, 2019 02:11
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Nonetheless, it's kind of hard to imagine Trollbloods being considered the ranged faction when Legion exists.
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Dec 23, 2019 02:54
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I definitely remember hearing that being the plan for them in like, Mk1 days. That obviously went away in a hurry.
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Dec 23, 2019 03:24
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Trolls as a slow but tanky ranged focus army would be rad and it makes me sad all their ranged units are horrible overpriced or unsupported or both. Plus they don't really have a caster that focuses on buffing a shooting list much other than Mr Trencher, who although I like, is having to play with a ton of overcosted units.
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Dec 23, 2019 04:31
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I'm looking to unload most of my Mercs models since no one plays this game where I live now. Listing them here first before I try to Ebay the whole mess. SA Mart Post: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3907806&pagenumber=1&perpage=40#post501043023
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Dec 24, 2019 01:35
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Iceclaw posted:How many legion beasts don't have a ranged attack? Lots (12), though it's easy to overlook thanks to the overlap between "no ranged attack" and "is considered terrible". Of the four lesser warbeasts, only the stinger has a ranged attack. Of the eight lights, 3 have ranged attacks. The Raek is probably the only melee light beast that is considered reasonably good. Of the eleven heavies, Golab, Proteus, Scytheans and Neraphs are melee only, but seem well regarded relative to their ranged attack having peers. Both Gargantuans have ranged attacks.
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Dec 24, 2019 10:23
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  Rotwings done*. *There's 19 in that picture. The 20th needed rehab after the super glue didn't quite take. Works 100% of the time 95% of the time, etc.
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Jan 1, 2020 03:32
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Those look fantastic dude, good job.
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Jan 1, 2020 08:03
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The (near-)final rules for Helga 2: Highway 2 Helga:
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Jan 15, 2020 20:02
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Using that feat to jam with primed models, hell yeah. I love this entire package right now, although I wish she had a unique version of Battle Host that also affected/gained armor from the Battle Engine.
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Jan 15, 2020 21:11
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Primed is a really weird one for pigs, they don't have the mass conscript forces they'd want to explode, nor some good large reach unit for +2s - slaughterhousers are on the expensive/small unit side. But, in other news, pig beasts definitely like +2 speed and pathfinder, let alone boosted charges and extra move from the feat. Funny how she isn't really faster than Helga on foot, 11 speed with engine vs 5 speed + 5 speed cyclone, or 6+6 if you dash and cyclone (aside from reposition). Seems interesting all around, I'm glad she wasn't as overpowering as some of the other riot quest models (harlowe).
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Jan 16, 2020 10:01
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You can feat move and then repo right? God that looks frustrating.
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Jan 16, 2020 10:11
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Nope core rules prevent claiming two end of activation movements.
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Jan 17, 2020 06:31
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Captainicus posted:Primed is a really weird one for pigs, they don't have the mass conscript forces they'd want to explode, nor some good large reach unit for +2s - slaughterhousers are on the expensive/small unit side. But, in other news, pig beasts definitely like +2 speed and pathfinder, let alone boosted charges and extra move from the feat. Funny how she isn't really faster than Helga on foot, 11 speed with engine vs 5 speed + 5 speed cyclone, or 6+6 if you dash and cyclone (aside from reposition). True, but with Nyss Hunters... e: Harlowe makes me actually angry. Not because he's too good, he isn't, but because it makes me look at my gun mages with an even bigger sad face.
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Jan 17, 2020 06:44
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S.J. posted:e: Harlowe makes me actually angry. Not because he's too good, he isn't, but because it makes me look at my gun mages with an even bigger sad face. This is a good point. Harlowe isn't dominating games... but the poor gunmages and taryn are left in the dust anyway.
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Jan 17, 2020 06:49
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Are we at a point where gun mages are not the default choice for everything?
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Jan 17, 2020 22:09
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For_Great_Justice posted:Are we at a point where gun mages are not the default choice for everything? We've been at that point since the beginning of the edition when thier Def dropped to 14 and Warmachine became single wound infantry hate edition. Edit: to elaborate. It's hard to justify Gun Mages these days when they are almost point for point the most expensive non character single wound infantry in the game once you attach the Officer which is compulsory to make them work and they are Def 14, Arm 11 with no survival tech at all. They just struggle to be 'killy' enough in a meta where single wound infantry aren't taken a lot and they are too expensive and fragile to justify taking as support control models. All that said, the solos are all amazing and I've got no problem taking the SOTT theme with no Gun Mage units at all. Friendly Fire fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Jan 18, 2020 |
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Jan 17, 2020 23:49
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In other news Skorne are currently loving The Terrorizer's spoilers. He's a RiotQuest model and one of the agonizers who used to carry Rasheth around (so has animosity with him). He's a character agonizer, allowed in Disciples of Agony (as a requisition point!) and with the Rush animus but is squishy as hell - meaning that most Skorne top tier lists are busy replacing gladiators with a terrorizer and either a void archon or even an archidon (when the requisition option used to be Marketh).
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Jan 18, 2020 03:02
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I give full credit to PP for tuning the level of stupid nonsense just right with the Riot Quest characters.
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Jan 18, 2020 04:08
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neonchameleon posted:In other news Skorne are currently loving The Terrorizer's spoilers. He's a RiotQuest model and one of the agonizers who used to carry Rasheth around (so has animosity with him). He's a character agonizer, allowed in Disciples of Agony (as a requisition point!) and with the Rush animus but is squishy as hell - meaning that most Skorne top tier lists are busy replacing gladiators with a terrorizer and either a void archon or even an archidon (when the requisition option used to be Marketh). Yo this model is loving rad though, and that backstory is amazing.
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Jan 18, 2020 05:33
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I randomly started wanting to break out some old Warmahordes stuff lately. Is there uh, any good use for Nephilim Soldiers?
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Jan 21, 2020 12:22
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Cuntellectual posted:I randomly started wanting to break out some old Warmahordes stuff lately. Making a diorama? Spare parts for a conversion? Seriously they are an expensive melee light that neither provides support nor tricksy movement. It's a bad combination. (From a Skorne perspective it's interesting how similar they are to the Archidon (which we use all the time) - but we only use the Archidon both because we have beast handlers and it's our only beast with flight - frankly the Nephilim Soldier looks more like an overpriced Cyclops Savage - which we don't use anyway).
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Jan 24, 2020 02:14
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More to the point, Legion seems out of an identity with the release of Infernals as the glass canon faction and better in every ways.
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Jan 24, 2020 03:54
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Not to many people would argue against a balance pass for all Legion lights and lessers.
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Jan 24, 2020 03:59
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Yeah, Legion needs to re-find it's niche I think. Jank movement, magic, and guns are definitely a trifecta they used to specialize in but a lot of the tools they had were deemed too oppressive in the 3e crossover and haven't been revisited, which is bullshit imo. Make people fear Lylyth again.
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Jan 24, 2020 04:30
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More like a faction wide pass, save maybe for Primal Terrors. The themes are now okay, but they have way too many underperforming models.
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Jan 24, 2020 04:30
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Hey, they finally put the rest of the flames in the darkness models on war room 
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Jan 24, 2020 04:40
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Iceclaw posted:More like a faction wide pass, save maybe for Primal Terrors. The themes are now okay, but they have way too many underperforming models. Okay, but what I described basically would be a faction wide pass at this point to be fair Captainicus posted:Hey, they finally put the rest of the flames in the darkness models on war room Any big differences between this and CID?
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Jan 24, 2020 05:29
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S.J. posted:Any big differences between this and CID? Didn't seem like much changed - the only one I noticed was resolutes got repairable. The Morrowan Priest attachtment grants rise and has shield guard, which I think is different from his CID version?
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Jan 24, 2020 07:20
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