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CapnAndy posted:Wait for Crusader Kings II to go on sale (it does so frequently) and pick it up. I can't wait for the steam summer sale on it. CKII already has a GoT mod for it too, I believe. I'm totally going to make Theon marry Ramsay 
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Jun 12, 2014 20:47
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CapnAndy posted:Wait for Crusader Kings II to go on sale (it does so frequently) and pick it up. I got all excited thinking that was a modernized version of Kingmaker, only to find out it's a drat PC game. Don't toy with my heart like that. Does anyone else here think Stannis isn't that bad of an option at this point? He is ruthless and black and white about everything, but there's no bullshit. You know where you stand with him, he tells it as it is, doesn't make it personal, and somehow I think he's the only one (aside from the crows) taking the threat from the white walkers more seriously than the scheming game of thrones everyone else is playing. He's a little bit of a bitch for being yanked around by Melisandre, but girlfriend (not to mention the Lord of Light) seems to be getting more legit as time goes on.
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Jun 12, 2014 20:48
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monster on a stick posted:Tommen wouldn't do this because Gendry would be an immediate pretender to the throne. He's kind of a dope but he's not that much of a dope. Oh, he definitely wouldn't. I was just saying he probably could. I'm not sure how threateninggendry would be in that circumstance, however. If the Lannisters are the ones who bring him legitimacy, and he turned on them, he has no one backing him, and has shown himself to be untrustworthy. So in that sense, if Gendry lives, the Lannisters definitely would want to be the ones who bring him into the fold. Honestly, I hope he never comes back because who cares Fryhtaning posted:I got all excited thinking that was a modernized version of Kingmaker, only to find out it's a drat PC game. Don't toy with my heart like that. Stannis would've maybe been okay pre-Melisandre. A bit inflexible and intense. Now? Now he's started murdering his own family, and killing people for worshiping the same gods they've worshiped for millennia. Dude sold himself out hard for power, and he isn't done yet. He is actually worse to his subjects than Joffrey (who was kept in check) If he stands up to Mel when she tries to kill his daughter, and genrally listens to Davos more, maybe we can reconsider Bobo the Red fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Jun 12, 2014 |
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Jun 12, 2014 20:50
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Fryhtaning posted:I got all excited thinking that was a modernized version of Kingmaker, only to find out it's a drat PC game. Bet you money that every person in this thread who can follow the byzantine chain of dynastic marriages and succession laws got their education by CK2 hitting them in the face with a rock until they figured it out. I goddamn sure did. And yeah, it's GoT: The Game even without the GoT mod.
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Jun 12, 2014 20:53
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Gendry lands in Meereen and marries Dany. Who has a claim to the throne now? 
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Jun 12, 2014 20:54
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monster on a stick posted:Gendry lands in Meereen and marries Dany. Who has a claim to the throne now? King Tommen of House Baratheon, First of his Name
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Jun 12, 2014 20:57
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monster on a stick posted:I don't know if she's decided to gently caress off as much as realize what a pain in the rear end it is to rule, plus she still has that anti-slavery thing going. I'm really kind of surprised that the various Free Cities of Essos haven't taken more of an interest in her trying to make an empire there. The Free Cities are very, very far away to the west, even though they'd be affected by something as major as the total disruption of the slave trade. Even Qarth is closer to the Slave Cities than the Free Cities are. Bobo the Red posted:I'm not sure how threateninggendry would be in that circumstance, however. If the Lannisters are the ones who bring him legitimacy, and he turned on them, he has no one backing him, and has shown himself to be untrustworthy. So in that sense, if Gendry lives, the Lannisters definitely would want to be the ones who bring him into the fold. As soon as he's legitimized he's got a claim to the throne that people can rally around, especially if Tommen dies. It's not something that the king can just take back, and the only person who wouldn't recognize it as legitimate now would be Stannis (or Danaerys, but who cares what she thinks). whowhatwhere fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Jun 12, 2014 |
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Jun 12, 2014 20:57
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whowhatwhere posted:As soon as he's legitimized he's got a claim to the throne that people can rally around, especially if Tommen dies. It's not something that the king can just take back, and the only person who wouldn't recognize it as legitimate now would be Stannis (or Danaerys, but who cares what she thinks).
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Jun 12, 2014 21:03
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I thought only the father could legitimise a bastard (or at least that's the way it works in CK2, haha).
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Jun 12, 2014 21:04
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Fryhtaning posted:Does anyone else here think Stannis isn't that bad of an option at this point? He is ruthless and black and white about everything, but there's no bullshit. You know where you stand with him, he tells it as it is, doesn't make it personal, and somehow I think he's the only one (aside from the crows) taking the threat from the white walkers more seriously than the scheming game of thrones everyone else is playing. He's a little bit of a bitch for being yanked around by Melisandre, but girlfriend (not to mention the Lord of Light) seems to be getting more legit as time goes on. Stannis would probably make a terrible king unless he ruled an entire kingdom of Stannises. He's too inflexible and unable to compromise to play politics. On the upside he wouldn't be corrupt, in the down side he would probably never actually accomplish anything during his reign.
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Jun 12, 2014 21:11
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Only the king can legitimize a bastard in Westeros. We can assume that Ramsay was legitimized with the permission of king Tommen for example.
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Jun 12, 2014 21:11
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Kainser posted:Only the king can legitimize a bastard. We can assume that Ramsay was legitimized with the permission of king Tommen for example. Only the king can legitimize his own bastard. Anyone can legitimize their own bastard but generally it's not done because... well why would you? If Jon was legitimized by Ned he would have taken over as heir to Winterfell which would have made Catelyn and Robb super pissed.
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Jun 12, 2014 21:15
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Doltos posted:I can't wait for the steam summer sale on it. CKII already has a GoT mod for it too, I believe. I fought the Greyjoys to a truce, then consolidated my forces and beat the Lannisters in a set-piece battle in which Tywin was wounded. Stannis killed Renly and marched on King's Landing. Joffrey married Sansa and got her pregnant, then died when King's Landing fell and King Stannis put him to death. Tywin died of his wounds and Lord Tyrion of Casterly Rock offered to join my war against King Stannis (Stannis had inherited the Iron Throne's war with me, since I was still fighting for independence). I gladly accepted and took the opportunity to disband my forces for a bit, so Robb could go home and knock up his wife Roslin Frey. In my absence, Lord Tyrion died in battle  . I picked up my troops and marched back down to King's Landing, sacking it and ending the war by taking King Stannis prisoner. I got independence for the North and Riverlands, and Ice was returned to me.I let Lord Jaime Lannister (King Stannis had fired him from the Kingsguard) out of prison. He married Meera Reed. Danaerys Targaryen returned from Essos with three dragons and took up her ancestral seat at Dragonstone. Sansa died in childbirth . Dany spent some time as a loyal bannerman to King Stannis and had a bastard daughter in an affair with some random Septon. Then Dany made her move, overthrowing King Stannis and putting him to death. I offered her Rickon in marriage, which she accepted.King Robb Stark ruled as King in the North and named his newborn son Eddard. King Rickon Stark and Queen Danaerys Targaryen rule as King and Queen of the Iron Throne. I stopped playing because I honestly didn't know how to top that.
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Jun 12, 2014 21:15
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sorry but Stannis owns https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lglznQyG4-k
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Jun 12, 2014 21:18
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Doltos posted:Only the king can legitimize his own bastard. Anyone can legitimize their own bastard but generally it's not done because... well why would you? If Jon was legitimized by Ned he would have taken over as heir to Winterfell which would have made Catelyn and Robb super pissed. Robb is older than Jon, so he'd still be the heir to Winterfell.
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Jun 12, 2014 21:19
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Andrew Verse posted:Robb is older than Jon, so he'd still be the heir to Winterfell. Nah he was conceived at the start of Robert's Rebellion right after Ned married Catelyn and was born when Ned returned from the war with Jon in his hands. They are probably only a few weeks apart, but it's implied that Jon is older.
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Jun 12, 2014 21:23
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Noctone posted:sorry but Stannis owns He has the coolest theme of any faction in the show, is first up the ladder in the battle of Blackwater, his god is legit, he keeps his speeches short, what more could you ask for in a king?
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Jun 12, 2014 21:25
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Noctone posted:sorry but Stannis owns
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Jun 12, 2014 21:25
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Doltos posted:Nah he was conceived at the start of Robert's Rebellion right after Ned married Catelyn and was born when Ned returned from the war with Jon in his hands. They are probably only a few weeks apart, but it's implied that Jon is older. Ned married Catelyn and consummated the marriage, impregnating her. Ned went to war. Ned comes back from the war with a bastard. Explain to me how it is "implied" that Jon is older. Is time travel involved?
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Jun 12, 2014 21:26
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marktheando posted:He has the coolest theme of any faction in the show, is first up the ladder in the battle of Blackwater, his god is legit, he keeps his speeches short, what more could you ask for in a king? Not being a kinslaying hypocrite?
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Jun 12, 2014 21:26
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Doltos posted:Nah he was conceived at the start of Robert's Rebellion right after Ned married Catelyn and was born when Ned returned from the war with Jon in his hands. They are probably only a few weeks apart, but it's implied that Jon is older. So assuming Ned is Jon Snow's father, are we assuming Ned knocked up Catelyn just before leaving, immediately porked some other girl, she gave birth while hanging out with Ned, who got home before the kid he conceived first was born? I mean, it's possible that Jon was a preemie or Robb took forever but it would stand to reason that Robb was born first if he was conceived first.
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Jun 12, 2014 21:29
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Andrew Verse posted:Ned married Catelyn and consummated the marriage, impregnating her. You just answered your own question. He married Catelyn, impregnated her, came back with a bastard... so how was Jon born after if Ned had to bring him back up from the south? The real answer is a theorized spoiler though, but yeah, Jon is older.
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Jun 12, 2014 21:30
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Baron von Eevl posted:So assuming Ned is Jon Snow's father, are we assuming Ned knocked up Catelyn just before leaving, immediately porked some other girl, she gave birth while hanging out with Ned, who got home before the kid he conceived first was born? There is a very large problem with your initial assumption (its name is Ned Stark) Basically, if Jon is older and Ned's son, he would have to be conceived before the wedding / subsequent war. unless he is a premie.
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Jun 12, 2014 21:30
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Bobo the Red posted:Oh, he definitely wouldn't. I was just saying he probably could. For Stannis, the ends always justify the means. Dude is a cold, calculating, rigid cat. Joff was just a nutter.
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Jun 12, 2014 21:32
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Doltos posted:Only the king can legitimize his own bastard. Anyone can legitimize their own bastard but generally it's not done because... well why would you? If Jon was legitimized by Ned he would have taken over as heir to Winterfell which would have made Catelyn and Robb super pissed. The game of thrones wiki at least claims that the letter of legitimization had the seal of house Baratheon of King's Landing. Seems a bit unnecessary if Roose himself could have legitimized Ramsay at any point. And Robb is older than Jon, Robert's Rebellion lasted a year and Robb was already born when Ned came back with Jon.
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Jun 12, 2014 21:32
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Bobo the Red posted:Not being a kinslaying hypocrite? I'm Scottish so don't care about that. Our most loved king and national hero Robert the Bruce stabbed his cousin to death in a church.
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Jun 12, 2014 21:33
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Doltos posted:You just answered your own question. I don't understand your logic. Robb was seeded before Ned went to war. Jon was seeded during the war. Obviously Robb was therefore born first.
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Jun 12, 2014 21:33
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Kainser posted:The game of thrones wiki at least claims that the letter of legitimization had the seal of house Baratheon of King's Landing. Seems a bit unnecessary if Roose himself could have legitimized Ramsay at any point. I think it had more to do with Roose wanting to dangle the carrot of legitimacy to get Ramsay to take Moat Cailin, but there's a whole bunch of stupid stuff revolving around the whole legitimizing Ramsay thing that are pseudo spoilers/theories. I dunno, you could be right but I've never seen anything explicitly mention that you need the king to legitimize a bastard. Maybe it's just Westerosi red tape that you need the official seal or something, but the decision seems to be totally up to the head of the House. And if anyone wants to know why Jon is older PM me, I don't want to spoil anything here.
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Jun 12, 2014 21:35
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qxx posted:For Stannis, the ends always justify the means. Dude is a cold, calculating, rigid cat. Joff was just a nutter. The thing is, he is a man who supposedly cares very much about the means. He is all about the proper process. Killing Renly the way he did made him feel very uncomfortable, so did killing his brother in law and all those other people. He knows it's wrong, but he has sold out because of Melisandre. And in doing so, he became a huge threat to everyone. I mean, how many people do you think will want to convert to the Lord of Light's faith? He would kill them all at this point, if only because he did it once and he needs to be consistent. Stannis would be the worst king. Even Rapeislander would be better, because he doesn't actually do anything.
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Jun 12, 2014 21:35
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Doltos posted:You just answered your own question. I know the speculation, but it's irrelevant to why what you're describing is wrong. Lycus fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Jun 12, 2014 |
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Jun 12, 2014 21:37
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Doltos posted:You just answered your own question. Ned marries and bangs Catelyn; gets pregnant with Robb. Ned goes to war and knocks up a common girl; gets pregnant with Jon. Robb born in the North. Jon born in the South. Ned comes home, from South to North, with a bastard. Do you see? Edit: pregnants, how do they work? qxx fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Jun 12, 2014 |
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Jun 12, 2014 21:38
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Lycus posted:I'm lost as to what you're trying to say here. If Robb was conceived at the start of the war, and Jon was conceived while Ned was away at war, then (assuming normal gestation periods) Robb is older. Ned coming back with Jon just means that Robb was born wile Ned was away. I never said that Ned was the father of Jon
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Jun 12, 2014 21:43
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I think it's pretty clear Cat was banging Benjen while Ned was away, and all her kids births are mysteriously timed to ~ 9 months after his visits to Winterfell. Jon Snow is actually Ned's only true son, that's why Cat hates him.
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Jun 12, 2014 21:43
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Doltos posted:I never said that Ned was the father of Jon
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Jun 12, 2014 21:48
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Bobo the Red posted:I think it's pretty clear Cat was banging Benjen while Ned was away, and all her kids births are mysteriously timed to ~ 9 months after his visits to Winterfell. Jon Snow is actually Ned's only true son, that's why Cat hates him. Incorrect, they are obviously the spawn of Hodor.
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Jun 12, 2014 21:48
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Doltos posted:
The CK2 GoT mod is amazing. Even it's bugs are quality. I once had Sansa and Arya have sex and one of them gave birth to some bastard kid.  Or the time Stannis became a total dictator and exterminated entire houses for no good reason causing massive never ending civil wars.
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Jun 12, 2014 23:50
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Jesus people are dense. He is trying to coyly imply that Ned is not Jon's father, but pretend that he somehow is dodging saying that outright. Ned returned with Jon right after Robb was born, and Jon was not a newborn, therefore Jon is (slightly) older. If that math doesn't work with a timeline of Ned porking some lady, then question the parentage, not the timeline. You're supposed to be questioning his parentage. loving Sean Bean himself did an interview after season 1 where he says, "I don't think Jon is supposed to be Ned's, because it doesn't make sense."
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Jun 13, 2014 00:05
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Bobo the Red posted:The thing is, he is a man who supposedly cares very much about the means. He is all about the proper process. Killing Renly the way he did made him feel very uncomfortable, so did killing his brother in law and all those other people. He knows it's wrong, but he has sold out because of Melisandre. And in doing so, he became a huge threat to everyone. I mean, how many people do you think will want to convert to the Lord of Light's faith? He would kill them all at this point, if only because he did it once and he needs to be consistent. Stannis is super rigid about law and duty but he does have some adaptability to him. Show smarts and ability and he'll give you a position of merit. Stannis made a friggin' smuggler into his hand because he recognized Davos' intelligence and worth. Killing his brother wasn't wrong. His brother was trying to usurp his rightful claim to the throne. Renly was going to kill Stannis unless Stannis bent the knee to him. Stannis was perfectly justified in defending himself in the only way he could since he would have been trounced by Renly's massive army. Plus Stephen Dillane absolutely kills it every time he's on screen so if you're not rooting for the Mannis I don't know what's wrong with you. He had me at thousands.
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Jun 13, 2014 01:46
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If he had to chop off Davos' fingers for smuggling food, shouldn't Stannis have to chop off his dick for forsaking his marriage vows
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Jun 13, 2014 01:50
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Ginette Reno posted:Stannis is super rigid about law and duty but he does have some adaptability to him. Show smarts and ability and he'll give you a position of merit. Stannis made a friggin' smuggler into his hand because he recognized Davos' intelligence and worth. He had me at being the only person  enough to insist that his propaganda be factually accurate.E: alas being an adulterer is only illegal if you're a married woman/committing such with a married woman.
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Jun 13, 2014 01:54
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