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clutchpuck posted:I'm having more fun imagining it with a Super Duke motor, which I suspect the new ones will be a little more comparable to. In fact I bet we'll see the new models aimed squarely at taking some of KTM's street bike market from them. It seems pretty easy for stuff to get up in there. I took the guard off and poured out a handfull of gravel. Never did find what caused all the damage though. It had to have been a bolt or something metal.
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Dec 16, 2012 04:45
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Ever since the MSF I've had dreams of riding motorcycles. Last night it happened again, only this time I even analyzed some mistakes I made, in the dream  Maybe my subconscious is telling me something... what could it be...
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Dec 16, 2012 04:53
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Well, if you consider the weight of a Sportster engine and that a single ZTL is lighter than a dual disc/dual caliper setup maybe EB was simply doing everything possible to get the bikes to a competitive weight? Also unsprung yadda yadda.
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Dec 16, 2012 04:53
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Whee, time to defend Buell. The ZTL brake is a good idea. Really good idea. If you do it right, you can use a lighter wheel, you get away from needing a spider, you can run a weaker fork... Everything is an advantage. Hell, BMW does something similar, they mount their brake disks in the ZTL fashion. We did find out that the ZTL brake fell down when run at a full race pace, but that's fixable. IIRC the Vrod motor DID start as a Buell project. The reason the vrod motor never found it's way into a Harley is part of Erics obsession. The vrod motor is LONG. And several changes were made on it that made it heavier. Also the cooling design is made to be pretty, not to be light, or effective. All of those changes were made the motor wholly inappropriate for sportbike use. If I recall correctly, the vrod motor is something like 10" longer than the Sportster motor. The Rotax motor was what Buell needed. He sure could have used Harleys styling department to deal with the radiators... Harley did hold Buell back. And used a heavy hand steering Buell. Anyone remember the 2010 blast? Harley also allowed buell to make bikes for a few years. I would love to see Buell get into the Moto 2 and Moto 3 chassis building game. Nerobro fucked around with this message at 06:32 on Dec 16, 2012 |
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Dec 16, 2012 06:27
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Nerobro posted:Whee, time to defend Buell... The ZTL on the 1190RS has finned rotor with a carbon fiber air duct to help cool the it, as well as being much thicker than the old ones were, and they claim even with that its still the lightest front wheel/rotor/caliper setup on any superbike. I also notice a lot of companies ditching those sweet looking under-seat exhausts and moving the fuel tanks lower too. I don't know about being a chassis builder in moto2, but seeing bikes that share no setup or parts with anything else in AMA SBK get onto the podium has been pretty great. They also apparently have a team consisting of 8 or 10 people in total, and are competing against teams who spent more on just their electronics package than EBR spent on a whole racebike.
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Dec 16, 2012 06:54
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Are they still running against the 600s?
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Dec 16, 2012 07:49
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M42 posted:Ever since the MSF I've had dreams of riding motorcycles. Last night it happened again, only this time I even analyzed some mistakes I made, in the dream I keep having dreams where I have a supermoto and I'm just riding around doing wheelies and giving people the finger. I assume that's what owning a supermoto is like.
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Dec 16, 2012 08:09
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Z3n posted:Are they still running against the 600s? Nope, 1000cc superbikes. And yes they ran in what was once called formula extreme in 2009, a class specifically built to allow different configurations to be competitive. They weren't the only twins with a displacement advantage. They just happened to beat established factory teams, never a way to make friends. HD was against them racing in the first place and refused any support for the team. After they were shut down I recall one of the higher-ups from HD saying in an article that one of the reasons for the shut down was some resentment over "funding Erik Buell's racing habit". PolishHero fucked around with this message at 09:17 on Dec 16, 2012 |
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Dec 16, 2012 09:05
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I had a slight interest in Buells over the years, but every time I walked into an H-D dealership they looked at me like I had two heads and couldn't sell the bikes.
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Dec 16, 2012 15:52
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MoraleHazard posted:I had a slight interest in Buells over the years, but every time I walked into an H-D dealership they looked at me like I had two heads and couldn't sell the bikes.
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Dec 16, 2012 16:27
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Only Harley would straight up refuse money in the name of upholding some bullshit image.
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Dec 16, 2012 16:42
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I went into an H-D shop to check out the bikes once and the Buells had dust on them thick enough to write in. Every Harley was spotless.
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Dec 16, 2012 17:35
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That or in back rooms out of view. Then of course, there were a lot of dealers that didn't carry them at all and looked at you like you're from another planet when you mention Beull.
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Dec 17, 2012 00:04
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The harley dealers were downright combative if you went in to talk about Buells. Hell, they're almost combative about people looking into the XR1200...
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Dec 17, 2012 05:49
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Rev. Dr. Moses P. Lester posted:I've heard that kind of story a few times. I wonder if Erik knew that kind of poo poo was going on? That's the kind of a thing that'll kill a bike, obviously. Somebody in manufacturer/dealer relations should have been all over that. Oh yeah, me too in both the us and uk. Asked some hd palace in jersey about demo rides and the reaction was something between confusion and contempt. And the racing comment just boggles the mind. Hd execs obviously have no clue about any form of motorcycling that doesn't involve rhinestones.
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Dec 17, 2012 14:56
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Jim Silly-Balls posted:Only Harley would straight up refuse money in the name of upholding some bullshit image. That bullshit image is what's earning them all their money though. I can certainly see them being worried about "brand dilution" or some poo poo - they don't even like mentioning the flat-trackers, although they're happy enough with drag bikes at the moment.
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Dec 17, 2012 17:03
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Any advantages/disadvantages to a 2 to 1 exhaust?
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Dec 17, 2012 18:55
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Seems like it could be lighter than a 2-2, in theory. Also I'll bet it changes the scavenging and backpressure quite a lot, but I'm not really qualified to comment on exactly how.
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Dec 17, 2012 19:23
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Pufflekins posted:Any advantages/disadvantages to a 2 to 1 exhaust? yeah, provided you have equal length headers, the pressure from one exhaust blast will help evacuate gasses from the following blast. The downside? It's not as easy to sync your carbs by feel and it's also harder to isolate any engine problems to a particular cylinder.
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Dec 17, 2012 20:52
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GnarlyCharlie4u posted:yeah, provided you have equal length headers, the pressure from one exhaust blast will help evacuate gasses from the following blast. So basically it just makes it a bit better on gas?
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Dec 17, 2012 21:06
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GnarlyCharlie4u posted:yeah, provided you have equal length headers, the pressure from one exhaust blast will help evacuate gasses from the following blast. Here's hoping I don't have any cylinder related engine problems with a 4-to-1.
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Dec 17, 2012 21:07
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Pufflekins posted:So basically it just makes it a bit better on gas? It depends on a lot of factors (what you're comparing it to, the bike, the tune etc) but a 2-1 often will give you somewhat more power on the low end and somewhat less on the high end of the rev range. People often get independent pipes (esp V-twin cruiser riders) because they think they look/sound cooler but the 2-1 setup often has better power in the rev range you spend your time in (and any high-end gains are wasted because the engines run out of breath at high RPM for other reasons.) Snowdens Secret fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Dec 17, 2012 |
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Dec 17, 2012 22:03
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Pufflekins posted:Any advantages/disadvantages to a 2 to 1 exhaust? On what engine? Notice that generally factories have mostly chosen 2-2 or 2-2 with a crossover for performance twin applications. Ducati 2 and 4 valve motors. Yamaha with the trx and tdm. Aprilia started with.a 2-1 but akra's top race system was 2-2 and the factory then switched to 2-2 with the mk 2 rsv and tuono. Rc51 and vtr1000f. Tl1000r and s, sv1000 etc. Ktm 950 and 990 motors. Exceptions seem to be bmw, but then the boxers don't have a particularly high output for their capacity. Compare to the er5 and 6, cb500, gs500. Factories seem to have chosen 2-2 systems despite the huge weight penalty, increased parts count and crash vulnerability, so it's reasonable to assume they are doing so for a good reason. Greater exhaust volume, better scavenging, more effective silencing (yet you don't see a lot of race systems going down to 2-1).
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Dec 17, 2012 22:18
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Saga posted:On what engine? I think on road bikes the two main considerations are looks and ease/difficulty of installing a catalytic converter. Aprilia do a 2:1 (albeit with two outlets from the silencer to make it look like a 2:1:2) on their 750 and 1200 twins, and all of the replacement systems, even the cat eliminating ones, keep that layout because the entire rear suspension and subframe on the Shiver and the Dorsoduro is set up around hiding the catalytic converter (a welcome change from the stock exhaust on the Rotax-engined bikes that looked like a Brabantia bin welded to the side of the bike). On race bikes I don't think there is that much of a disadvantage to 2:2 weight-wise - there aren't many twins doing 2:1 or 2:1:2 that have the union close to the engine, it's normally only a foot or two from the silencer, so any weight advantage is just on that last, pretty lightweight part. It's certainly much easier to plumb a 2:2, particularly on a heavily-tuned engine, and the extra couple of hp that's worth is more than enough to offset the extra kg or two of weight (and hours spent getting the tune right).
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Dec 17, 2012 22:46
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Saga posted:On what engine? I've been looking at buying a sportster 72 or 48(I like a smaller cruiser). I wanted to change the exhaust to get a little more power and to avoid the whole LOUD PIPES bullshit.
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Dec 17, 2012 23:19
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Pufflekins posted:I've been looking at buying a sportster 72 or 48(I like a smaller cruiser). I wanted to change the exhaust to get a little more power and to avoid the whole LOUD PIPES bullshit. The Sportster engine is nothing like the Ducati, KTM, Aprilia engines Saga mentions. In terms of powerband, character, etc. Read the last two pages of the Harley thread, there's some talk about 2-2 and 2-1 exhausts including a guy swapping his out.
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Dec 17, 2012 23:32
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Let's talk insurance. Any reason to get anything more than just a lot of liability coverage if: 1. The bike is cheap enough to replace 2. I already have health coverage
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Dec 18, 2012 23:09
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Pissingintowind posted:Let's talk insurance. not really.
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Dec 18, 2012 23:15
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Pissingintowind posted:Let's talk insurance. Nope. Although you'll be surprised sometimes at how much insurance will pay out for a bike, and then gear, pain and suffering on top of that, etc. Car rental coverage is nice if your bike is your only means of transportation. And having your insurance company to go after them in case of an accident where you are not at fault is nice too, makes it harder for them to screw you over.
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Dec 18, 2012 23:17
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Z3n posted:Nope. Although you'll be surprised sometimes at how much insurance will pay out for a bike, and then gear, pain and suffering on top of that, etc. Car rental coverage is nice if your bike is your only means of transportation. And having your insurance company to go after them in case of an accident where you are not at fault is nice too, makes it harder for them to screw you over. Yeah, and then your rates will probably quadruple over the next 4 years?
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Dec 18, 2012 23:21
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Pissingintowind posted:Yeah, and then your rates will probably quadruple over the next 4 years? Just don't crash, problem solved.
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Dec 18, 2012 23:30
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Pissingintowind posted:Yeah, and then your rates will probably quadruple over the next 4 years? If they're at fault? No. Your insurance company will collect from them for you, and then repay your deductible when the other party is found at fault. If you want to collect from an accident on your side, then yes, that's a possibility. But any good agent should tell you how much your rates will go up over the next few years. I go through a state farm agent, and he's totally up front about how much rates will rise when we make changes in our policy, if we claim an accident, etc. I discovered that for an at fault accident where about 4k of damage was done to the car, our rates would go up about $800 over the next 2 years until the acccident was forgiven. But if there was another at fault accident after that one, it would spike like 5k. So it's about managing the financial cost vs. the risks of another accident.
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Dec 18, 2012 23:31
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Interesting, thanks for the info. So after calling a few places, it would not have been worth it to add collision and comprehensive on a $2,500 bike. I ended up with the following through Progressive: $217: Injury Liability - $100K per person/$300K per accident and Property Liability - $50K per accident $241: Uninsured/Underinsured Personal - $50K per person/$100K per accident $10: Uninsured Property - $3.5K/$0 deductible I added the UI/UIM because I figure if I get into an accident with another vehicle, it's unlikely to be my fault. Even though I already have health insurance, I would want to make sure that I'm compensated for lost wages/pain and suffering while recovering. The UI property bit was just too cheap to not throw in. Gotta love overpaying for insurance coverage - and this is the best I found with a clean record! Pissingintowind fucked around with this message at 01:38 on Dec 19, 2012 |
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Dec 19, 2012 01:35
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Those aren't 6 month rates are they?
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Dec 19, 2012 02:31
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JP Money posted:Those aren't 6 month rates are they? Nope, full year. Although even for a full year I'd consider that an ankle-grabbing.
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Dec 19, 2012 02:33
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Are you a new rider? If so, worry not, as long as you keep the fragile bits off the pavement, that premium will go down. I have two big (>1100cc) bikes and two riders covered including comp and collision for less than $400/year.
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Dec 19, 2012 02:56
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It depends a lot on your age, location, how long you've had your motorcycle license, how scary your bike sounds, etc etc. Regardless of how long your automobile record has been clean, if you're a young dude with a fresh M endorsement and a racy sounding bike in an urban area you're going to get mouthraped that first year or two. For particularly bad combinations the insurance that first year can be more than the bike payments. Keep in mind this is because a LOT of dumb idiots buy way too much bike that they smash up, usually very quickly, sometimes hitting other cars/bikes/buildings in the process. I know one guy that totalled his new chopper on the ride home, another that rolled out of the driveway he bought it in straight into a fire hydrant, and I dropped my literbike before escaping the dealer parking lot. Actuarial science is not kind to odds like these.
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Dec 19, 2012 02:57
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I'd also say that multi-line discounts are your friends in a huge way. Stack car, renters/house, and motorcycle insurance to make them all cheaper.
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Dec 19, 2012 04:35
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Pope Mobile posted:Here's hoping I don't have any cylinder related engine problems with a 4-to-1. don't worry, there's tricks for that too. you mess around with enough inline 4's and you'll be able to figure it out with a hand over the exhaust and a screwdriver to the ear. Pufflekins posted:So basically it just makes it a bit better on gas?
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Dec 19, 2012 07:49
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GnarlyCharlie4u posted:don't worry, there's tricks for that too. Leans out the AFM a bit, may require jetting adjustment. Not as much as pod filters, so there's that.
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Dec 19, 2012 16:50
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