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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=06iwaAxhPlo
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Feb 19, 2016 14:51
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Gary Johnson looks like a Simpsons character.
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Feb 19, 2016 15:38
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With the jrodefeld thread (no, the other jrodefeld thread) coming to a close, let's spice things up by preparing ourselves for the upcoming Libertarian Presidential Debate broadcasting on Fox Business on the Stossel show by introducing the candidates in a more detailed fashion. I will go through each candidate one by one (in the order of my previous post). I will try to answer the following five (simple) questions loosely following from the GOP: 1. Who are you and why are you running for president? 2. What is your position on illegal immigration? 3. What is your position on the Middle East/ISIS/terrorists? 4. What is your position on government spending? 5. What is your tax plan? Bonus: Do you gently caress melons? I will use the candidate's own website, and, if available, Wikipedia entry, Facebook page, and any recent Twitter twittings. I will only use first-hand sources (excepting Wikipedia). So, I will start with Marc Allan Feldman first. I'll make a separate post, so, if there are any other questions you'd like me to add in my quest, feel free to let me know.
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Feb 19, 2016 15:46
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The Larch posted:Gary Johnson looks like a Simpsons character. The whole post looks like someone hooked a markov chain generator up to reddit and filled in the gaps with pictures of stage hypnotists.
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Feb 19, 2016 15:47
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God that was bad
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Feb 19, 2016 16:00
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You could tell from the crowd's face they agreed.
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Feb 19, 2016 16:04
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Marc Allan Feldman 1. Who are you and why are you running for president? VotesNotForSale.com About page posted:Big money has corrupted politics. Each major party will spend a billion dollars on the presidential campaign. Our two-party system is failing. Now is the time to take power back from the special interests. Dr. Marc Feldman is an anesthesiologist from Cleveland, Ohio, having received his MD (and MHS) from John Hopkins University. He previously ran for Attorney General of Ohio in 2010. According to his most recent blog post, he wants Kanye West as his running mate, and a quick scan of his Facebook/Twitter shows that he might actually be serious about the proposal. His most recent social networking status shows him lamenting that some "friends" added him to a group called "Ron Paul Supporters for Trump 2016." He is currently accepting donations, but limiting contributions to $5 to prove a point or something. 2. Illegal immigration. Dr. Marc Feldman has not expressed an opinion on this topic. 3. Middle East. Dr. Marc Feldman has not expressed an opinion on this topic. Except for the following Tweet: quote:Islamic Religious Imperialism is at war with Western Capitalist Imperialism over who gets to rule the world. Let's shut them both down. 4. Government Spending. Dr. Marc Feldman has provided his plan for balancing the budget and reducing government spending called "BASE". It stands for his simple four-step plan: quote:1. Balance the budget. It starts with forcing every agency to cut their budget; then getting the GAO to review the "effectiveness" of every branch of government, and if they don't meet Dr. Feldman's standards then the agency gets cut completely; then using the GAO to grade charities based on their effectiveness and those which pass get a seal of approval and named a "Effective Social Organization"; and finally Dr. Feldman proposes not only a tax credit for donating to these ESOs, but a tax credit that matches dollar for dollar what you donate to charity. Dr. Feldman sees the obvious sabotaging of the Federal budget this would cause, and considers it a feature, not a bug. He also says nothing of the fact that this really will only benefit people who can afford to donate to charities in the first place. Read: http://www.votesnotforsale.com/base_my_progressive_plan_to_shrink_the_federal_government 5. What is your tax plan? Dr. Marc Feldman has not expressed an opinion on this topic, save for his BASE plan. Have you ever hosed a melon? quote:I understand the point of view that the ideas of a candidate are most important. However, I grew up in Washington DC and I have known politicians personally. I don't believe a word of what they say. If you cannot go by what they say, how can you determine what their ideas and principles really are? Look at what political party they are in, and where their money comes from. Sorry to start with the softball first, but it is almost midnight where I'm at. But read that BASE plan, it's mostly empty platitudes and rambles on in a jrode-y sort of way. e: Oh, and Dr. Feldman is also expressing his impotent rage on Twitter about not being invited onto Stossel's show. I guess @VotesNotForSale won't get to #FeelTheJohnson.
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Feb 19, 2016 16:18
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Mmmhmmm, Yes! Lets cut an agency's funding then see how effective they are! "What's that Food and Nutrition Service? You can't feed the nation's poor and starving with a million bucks? You say SNAP needs more funding?  "
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Feb 19, 2016 20:03
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YF19pilot posted:Marc Allan Feldman lol using the GAO to rate the effectiveness of all of the charities is going to take loving forever, and he wants to do this after cutting their budget? He also seems to not understand that the GAO works for Congress, not the President. The president can appoint the Comptroller-General, who directs the GAO, but that's a 15-year appointment that was last filled in 2010, so a President elected in 2016 likely won't have that opportunity. Not a single aspect of this plan makes sense. Ignoring for a moment that the President doesn't have the ability to reduce budgets and that Congress would never go along with this plan, What happens if the GAO gets cut completely in this plan, then do we just not recognize any charities? Presumably he asks private industry to take over and gives them twice the budget for half the work, but that's okay since it's no longer under direct government control
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Feb 19, 2016 20:23
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I have to say I find his slogan of "votes not for sale" to be intensely disagreeable. Surely votes should be for sale at market value?
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Feb 19, 2016 20:31
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I have a friend who's super into Thomas Sowell who I'm assuming is a traditional free market proponent. What would be good topics to bring up in discussing him? I thought mentioning Greenspan and his failures causing the recession would be a nice topic since they both come from the same school of thought. But that didn't seem to work since he said Sowell was only interested in small government? I was very confused. Basically what's really bad about Sowell and what's good.
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Feb 19, 2016 22:48
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The great thing about Dr. Feldman is his complete lack of taking a position on anything, except for his BASE plan. And this is on purpose! He complains that too many people vote for politicians based on their thoughts and ideas and not what political party they belong to and this is bad. Does this guy understand why voting along party lines is in part what got us into this terrible two-party system where the country is divided against itself such as it is? Anyways, I just got up. It's tempting to go straight into the crazy guy, but I think I will try to get through the others (at least Gary #FeelTheJohnson and McAfee) before I get to the honeypot goldmine.
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Feb 20, 2016 01:40
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 Cecil Ince of Missouri Slogan: Restore Liberty! Website: Restore-Liberty.Weebly.com Second Website: www.CecilAnthonyInce.com IMDB: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm5047671/ 1. Who are you and why are you running for president? Restore Liberty.Weebly.com posted:“It’s time that the American people have a real Libertarian option. It’s time to unify the Libertarian Party. It’s time for the American people to wake up and rise up and take back the federal government and restore individual liberty for all.,” said Ince. “I will restore individual freedom and I will fight to prevent federal interventions upon the states. I will work to unite this nation and to restore it under the Constitution.” The themes of "a real Libertarian option" and "restore...the Constitution" are ones which get repeated by at least half, if not most of the Libertarian Candidates. It honestly sounds like a Conservative Republican's pitch, but with Conservative replaced by Libertarian. (Conservatives argue how we haven't had a true conservative candidate since Reagan.) Anyways, on to Cecil. Possibly the only candidate with an IMDB page, Cecil Anthony Ince is an actor and owner of Ince Films in Irving, Texas. Near as I can tell, there is no relation to Thomas H. Ince, early film pioneer and "Father of the Western". The only films mentioned on his secondary website are two short films, one self produced called "Suicide" and another called "Continued As Planned" with the KD Studio Actors Conservatory in Dallas, Texas. I can find none of these films in Google search, and Cecil Ince's IMDB page is completely empty. Ince Films does not turn up in Google search, either. Born and raised in Texas, he's been heavily involved with both the Texas and Missouri Libertarian parties, acting as an "unofficial" lobbyist in Missouri. He has ran for political office three times, Missouri state house district 137 in 2002, Secretary of State of Missouri in 2004, and Texas House District 105 in 2010. It's interesting that Cecil Ince ran under the name "Christopher Davis" when running for positions in Missouri. Beyond this he has been involved on and off with both the Libertarian and Republican parties, mostly in Missouri. His Facebook page is mostly regurgitating news stories, but there is one hilarious post where he's asking people to help him raise $75. Unlike Dr. Feldman, Mr. Ince has a fully thought out "Issues" page: http://restore-liberty.weebly.com/issues.html 2. Illegal immigration. Immigration posted:Ince supports a complete the dismantlement of the Immigration and Nationalization System. Ince Supports sole authority of immigration and nationalization invested in the U.S. District Courts. Ince favors the designation of Citizens and Non-Citizens, and supports that no non-citizen should be granted rights, liberties, privileges and’ or immunities reserved to citizens. Not born in the USA? No citizenship for you! Oh, we're lifting Visa Requirements, but you have to petition the courts to stay longer than 90-days, a process which I'm sure won't take longer than your window of opportunity. Border Control posted:Ince supports Open Borders to allow peaceful people to cross freely, Ince agrees that everyone entering the US needs to be screened and identified upon entering the US. We really should regulate who comes into the country, but gently caress if we're actually going to do anything about it. Also, STATE'S RIGHTS! 3. Middle East. To set this up properly I need to pull in his ideas about the military first. Otherwise the absolute level of stupidity is lost. Also, I'm a military brat so of course I'm going to pick apart his military policy. Military posted:Ince supports a full withdrawal of all US Troops currently deployed abroad. Ince supports closing all US Military Bases overseas. Ince, supports a Non-Military Intervention Foreign Policy. Ince Supports continued economic and diplomatic relations with other nations. Ince favors a defending the home front. Ince favors a reconstruction of the US Armed Service. Ince supports reinstituting the Citizen Militia in each county in the US, to be trained by the Reinstituted State Guards. Each of the States shall make up the Union Military Forces which shall be administrated by the Department of Defense and commissioned by Congress. This is the typical short-sighted Libertarian screed of Abandon our allies! military isolationism. Defend the home front (but not against immigrants, we promise!) Also, each county will have a citizen militia trained by the State military, which must provide forces to the "Union" military. Someone I think in this thread said something about Libertarians being stuck in the 1850s, and this military policy pretty much is. It's like part pre-Civil War US Army meets a feudal-kingdom system. This is not someone who should be in charge of a modern military force. So, about 'dem terrists... Terrorism posted:nce believes that militant actions of aggression should not be tolerated, and that we should not leave ourselves open and defenseless to anyone. Ince deems all “GUN-FREE ZONES” as a constitutional violation of the second amendment of the United States which infringes upon the right of the people to own and possess firearms. GUN FREE ZONES SUPPORT TERRORISM! Private property rights, but if you want a gun free zone YOU'RE A TERRORIST! Also, since the military will be dismantled (and presumably all of the three-letter agencies) it'll be up to the local militia to protect our country from terrorists. This is a system that will work perfectly and no innocent person will be accidentally ISIS posted:Ince understands the situations currently in the Middle East concerning ISIS. And Ince refuses to declare war and instigate a world war which would involve China and Russia. Ince supports a complete withdrawal of all U.S. troops currently deployed. gently caress THE KURDS. They're not citizens anyways. Israel posted:Ince supports the right of Israel to be a sovereign nation, and that the US should maintain economic and diplomatic relations with Israel. However, to participate in the conflicts of Israel, Ince strongly opposes and will continue to support a Non-Military Intervention Policy. gently caress THE JEWS (and the Palestinians, too, for that matter). They're not citizens anyways. Civil Liberties posted:Ince supports a complete repeal of the USA PATRIOT Act. I agree with repealing the Patriot Act, but while the TSA is pure security theater, private security will be worse. Though I'm sure private airport security won't cavity search every brown person that walks through the gate, oh no, sir. 4. Government Spending. Budget, deficits posted:Ince believes the only common sense course of action that would balance the budget and eliminate national debt and the deficit, is to dismantle the mercantile economic system of the United States. This will involve a major overhaul of the US Federal Code, Repealing the Federal Reserve Act, Abolishing the I.R.S. and Repealing the 16th Amendment of the US Constitution. Ince feels that the current direction of the US Economy is headed for certain disaster, and only a complete restoration of the economy is needed. Ince will work to implement a Free-Trade Free-Market Economy, with limited Federal restrictions and oversights. In a Free-Market economy where individuals are free to engage in business, labor, trade, and services, upon mutual agreement without government interferences. The Federal Government should be limited in only preventing theft, fraud, extortion, and protecting the liberties of individuals, consumers and businesses. I had to do a quick bit of research to discover that "mercantile economic system" doesn't mean what I thought it meant (I'm an engineer/EFL teacher, not an economist) and apparently doesn't mean what Mr. Ince thinks it means, either (he's a Libertarian actor, not an economist). Apparently, it's use here is in the pejorative sense, much like calling everyone who disagrees with you "Statist". So, basically, what I gather is, he wants to eliminate all taxes and all but a few regulations, but maintain the Federal Government's power in enforcing these regulations (probably reactively rather than proactively. Except, of course, he later says that the Federal government should not be involved in law enforcement, so.... Budget, deficits posted:Ince supports turning Social Security and Medicare over to the States, grandfathering current benefit recipients, which will dissolved when the last recipient has passed away. Acceptance of new recipients in to State Administered Social Security and Medicare shall be up to the States, and the Federal Government shall not fund this program. Budget, deficits posted:Ince supports the reinstitution of the gold and silver standard; congress shall direct the Department of Treasurer to establish a depository for the precious metals of the United States. Ince supports recommendations to congress to ratify a State Banking Act, which will grand the respective states the right to establish a State Bank. In Addiction, to the recommendation Ince will advise congress to authorize the US Mint to issue US Gold and Silver Notes which the Department of Treasury may grant loans to the State Banks or any bank within the Union. Yes, he did write "In Addiction..." Typical goldbug nonsense with added "State Banks" because the early 19th Century sure taught us a lot about letting states print their own money! Budget, deficits posted:Ince opposes the FairTax as federal tax policy and supports the drastic downsize of the Federal Government. Ince will work to abolish any and all Federal Agencies that are not authorized by the Constitution. Ince opposes all taxes. How will he fund the Federal Agencies that remain? Mr. Ince has not expressed an opinion on this issue. 5. What is your tax plan? As per above, repeal the 16th Amendment, abolish the IRS, oppose any kind of taxation. No word on how to actually fund the government. Have you ever hosed a melon?  An actor and owner of a film studio with no films accredited to either? Magic Eight-ball says "Very likely". I do also love that https://www.restore-liberty.com is this geo-cities/Myspace level "personal" page, that has https://www.cecilanthonyince.com emblazened on the top, while that address is actually available for purchase. Oh, and he apparently does his own html coding on the "personal" page. Which is obvious, because clicking on every sub-page link is just the same loving thing but with broken pictures. I guess this guy thinks that because Reagan was an actor he can achieve greatness, too. Taking a break for now. Up next will be the Libertarian's pride and joy, Gary #FeelTheJohnson Johnson.
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Feb 20, 2016 03:52
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YF19pilot posted:I'm a military brat The stupid very obviously stuck. quote:This is the typical short-sighted Libertarian screed of Abandon our allies! military isolationism. Defend the home front (but not against immigrants, we promise!) Also, each county will have a citizen militia trained by the State military, which must provide forces to the "Union" military. Look I can see why this gets you. I mean, downsizing the military and drawing down deployments means you or people you know would very likely lose the free housing and paychecks and that's really too bahahaha get hosed. quote:gently caress THE JEWS (and the Palestinians, too, for that matter). They're not citizens anyways. ...you are aware of what our support of the Israeli government at least partially enables, right? quote:I agree with repealing the Patriot Act, but while the TSA is pure security theater, private security will be worse. Though I'm sure private airport security won't cavity search every brown person that walks through the gate, oh no, sir. As far as racial discrimination, I'm not sure how that'd make it much different than the TSA, actually.
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Feb 20, 2016 04:30
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This poster loves police brutality, but only when its against minorities!
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cool you're here to do your usual idiocy i'm glad
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Feb 20, 2016 04:33
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Giving billions to the IDF and being the world police is a good idea never mind guys.
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Feb 20, 2016 04:41
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man its a good thing the only alternative is having citizen militias that then contribute soldiers to the national military, there is no middle ground there you moron
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Feb 20, 2016 04:45
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A lot of Libertarian economic policies seem like case studies in having no idea what happened in the 1800s.
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Feb 20, 2016 04:50
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DeusExMachinima posted:Giving billions to the IDF and being the world police is a good idea never mind guys. Both of those things are probably better ideas than the garbage you've been arguing, mate. Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:A lot of Libertarian economic policies seem like case studies in having no idea what happened in the 1800s. Less 1800s, more "all of history". Like the old response to any libertarian idea goes "Yes, but on the other hand: recorded history",
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Feb 20, 2016 04:52
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DeusExMachinima posted:Giving billions to the IDF and being the world police is a good idea never mind guys. At least jrod puts some effort into his bad posts.
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Feb 20, 2016 04:54
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archangelwar posted:At least jrod puts some effort into his bad posts. this is the guy who made a thread "asking questions" about gun control and trying to "start a debate" that really was just him posting a polemic
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Feb 20, 2016 04:55
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There will always be a world police due to the spread of communication and speed of transport we have nowadays, and the only thing that can really change is which powerful country or group of countries will hold that role. For instance, during the cold war, the USA and USSR split the job pretty evenly. Before that, you could say that Britain arguably filled that role, largely due to trade and naval strength.
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Feb 20, 2016 05:00
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YF19pilot posted:
Please stop doxxing jrod.
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Feb 20, 2016 05:02
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fishmech posted:Both of those things are probably better ideas than the garbage you've been arguing, mate. What'd you have in mind? Financially aiding an apartheid state and forever wars are pretty garbage IMHO.
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Feb 20, 2016 05:17
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DeusExMachinima posted:What'd you have in mind? Financially aiding an apartheid state and forever wars are pretty garbage IMHO. Being global police actually mostly means enforcing protection of the world's sea based shipping, which is really important to commerce. Sorry you're so uneducated that you just go "gurr forever war!!!!"? Also way more money has been given to other states that ain't Israel,
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Feb 20, 2016 05:23
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fishmech posted:Less 1800s, more "all of history". Well, yeah, but just how much of the recorded history that debunks Libertarian history is concentrated in the 1800s? I guess it was sort of the wild west of government interaction with industrial global economies, and libertarians want to go back to that.
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Feb 20, 2016 05:42
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DeusExMachinima posted:Anyway, I'm pretty sure I'm libertarian.
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Feb 20, 2016 05:45
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Cnidaria posted:Reminder that in a society that requires money to live, it's immoral to propose a system that requires inconsistent income systems like charity. DeusExMachinima posted:
VitalSigns posted:Letting people die preventable deaths is wrong. DeusExMachinima posted:Forums poster VitalSigns, if you could successfully do so, would you ban alcohol, cigarettes, private transportation in urban areas, and fast food? this is what you guys are arguing with, just stop
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Feb 20, 2016 05:53
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Guys, guys, it's totally cool. I heard at last year's Red Flag there was a group of self funded Libertarian Volunteer Union Militia Air Force participating in training. Many of the world's Air Forces were quite impressed by their performance. Here's an image, I just hope I'm not violating clearances. I'm convinced. Defund the military.
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Feb 20, 2016 05:58
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fishmech posted:Being global police actually mostly means enforcing protection of the world's sea based shipping, which is really important to commerce. Hmmm perhaps keeping some jets and ships but ditching the million+ man army and most of our overseas bases and nationbuilding failures aren't mutually exclusive. I guess it's just too bad it's all or nothing. quote:Also way more money has been given to other states that ain't Israel, Yes, and?
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Feb 20, 2016 06:36
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DeusExMachinima posted:Hmmm perhaps keeping some jets and ships but ditching the million+ man army and most of our overseas bases and nationbuilding failures aren't mutually exclusive. I guess it's just too bad it's all or nothing. Glad we agree then since we were mocking an all or nothing plan to start you loving tool
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Feb 20, 2016 06:49
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 Gary Johnson of New Mexico Slogan: Be Libertarian with me. Website: GaryJohnson2016.com Twitter: @GovGaryJohnson #FeelTheJohnson 1. Who are you and why are you running for president? quote:Gary doesn’t give up. Ever. Former New Mexico Governor Gary Johnson is possibly the most well known and most popular of the Libertarian Party candidates. He was governor from 1995 to 2003, as a member of the Republican party, and forced out of office due to term limits. In 2008 he supported Ron Paul's bid for the Republican nomination. In 2012 he attempted to run for the Republican nomination, but felt snubbed after being denied invitations to the various Republican debates. He withdrew his bid for the Republican bid and ran on the Libertarian ticket instead, deciding that his goal wasn't to win the Presidential office, but rather win 5% of the vote, which would cement the Libertarian party as a serious party, and provide campaign funding to the party. Of course, he fell much short of that goal, securing only 1% of the overall vote. Still, in sheer numbers this is a record for the Libertarians, and only second behind Ed Clark's 1980 bid (1.1% of the vote). Gary Johnson, born in Minot, NoDak, loves to tout his history. He worked as a door-to-door handyman to pay for his college, and after college turned it into a business. He has vetoed more bills than any other governor (over 750) and has given himself the nickname of "Governor Veto". He also cut taxes 14 times during his tenure. Of the entire lot, Governor Johnson is surely the most experienced politician - which could be a bonus or could hamper him from winning Libertarian votes. Personal anecdote - the few friends of my on Facebook that actually vote Libertarian rather than just talk about it are big Gary Johnson fans. 2. Illegal immigration. Immigration posted:Having served as Governor of a border state, Gary Johnson understands immigration. He understands that a robust flow of labor, regulated not by politics, but by the marketplace, is essential. He understands that a bigger fence will only produce taller ladders and deeper tunnels, and that the flow of illegal immigrants across the border is not a consequence of too little security, but rather a legal immigration system that simply doesn’t work. Militarizing the border, bigger fences, and other punitive measures espoused by too many politicians are all simplistic “solutions” to a problem caused by artificial quotas, bureaucratic incompetence and the shameful failure of Congress to actually put in place an immigration system that matches reality. Not going to win over Conservatives with that one, but it wouldn't be honest to say that I don't agree with him about overhauling the immigration system and demilitarizing the border. Unfortunately, the fear is "right conclusion, wrong reasons," but Mr. Johnson doesn't provide much background into his reasoning; nor does he say what to do about illegal immigrants already here. 3. Middle East. Foreign Policy and National Defense posted:The objective of both our foreign policy and our military should be straightforward: To protect us from harm and to allow the exercise of our freedoms. It's not the screeching isolationism of your typical Libertarian, but at the same time it's the wordy non-answer of "I'll do something but I won't say what" that most politicians offer on a complex subject that probably isn't their pet issue, but important nonetheless. Though, he did post this on his Facebook: quote:Violent jihadists, whether they be ISIS or otherwise, are a real threat. And the federal government's #1 responsibility is to defend against real threats. BUT, are we safer today because of an airstrike in Libya that killed 43 people? It does read like a typical candidate's ranting of "If I were in charge, I would be bombing the right people!" 4. Government Spending. Government Spending posted:By the time Barack Obama leaves office, the national debt will be $20 TRILLION. That is not just obscene, it is unsustainable -- and arguably the single greatest threat to our national security. Basically the same tirade Conservative Republicans give, just with the serial numbers filed off, and "I vetoed 750 bills!" written with a sharpie. Seems Gov. Johnson hasn't forgotten his Republican roots quite yet. Typical debt hawk rantings and posting on his Twitter: quote:Reminder: The #nationaldebt increased by $1.5 billion today. Just as it did yesterday, & will again tomorrow. #GOPTownHall #libertarian 5. What is your tax plan? Taxes posted:Today’s federal tax code does all the wrong things. It penalizes productivity, savings and investment, while rewarding inefficiency and designating winners and losers according to political whim. For far too long, tax laws have been used not just as a means to collect needed revenues, but as a weapon with which to manipulate our behavior, create and destroy industries and fulfill politicians’ dreams of social engineering. The result is a tax code that is more than 70,000 pages long enforced by a government agency with almost 100,000 employees. Generic Conservative Republican Tax Argument #5. Seriously, he's pulling out all the Conservative playbook arguments that make all the big AM talkers happy. Have you ever hosed a melon? quote:Johnson was raised Lutheran. Yup, total melon fucker. But only on Sunday morning. Overall Gary Johnson seems pretty inoffensive, but that just might be me having come from a Conservative background, and recognizing a lot of the same rhetoric being used in his non-answer arguments. Most of his policies appear to be Conservative Republican, with his stances on immigration and drugs more what you'd find with moderate and liberal Republicans. He really is a Republican that's butthurt that the big boys in the RNC won't let him play ball and always pick him last. I'm guessing he got the backing of the Libertarian Party because having a former (Repbulican) governor running on your ticket gives your party an air of legitimacy, even when your hero (Ron Paul) wouldn't even run on the LP ticket. Otherwise, smaller candidates, like Dr. Feldman, are a bit jealous and perturbed by Gov. Johnson's popularity, as the whole reason the LP Debate on Stossel got moved was because Johnson was busy with prior commitments. Basically, Johnson is the "establishment" Libertarian if such a thing could exist.
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Feb 20, 2016 06:59
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To be fair to the "recorded history" argument against libertarians, they say the exact same thing of anything left of Thatcher. Soviety union, leftism debunked. Anyone who wants even an ounce of government intervention in the economy or society is pissing on the graves Mao's victims. Might as well throw hitler in there too, national SOCIALISM after all.
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Feb 20, 2016 08:05
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Baronjutter posted:To be fair to the "recorded history" argument against libertarians, they say the exact same thing of anything left of Thatcher. Soviety union, leftism debunked. Anyone who wants even an ounce of government intervention in the economy or society is pissing on the graves Mao's victims. Might as well throw hitler in there too, national SOCIALISM after all. The more extreme AnCaps also throw democracy under the bus. Hitler was democratically elected, can't have that. If we let the poor and blacks vote, we'll get President Gay Black Hitler.
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Feb 20, 2016 10:21
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DeusExMachinima posted:Hmmm perhaps keeping some jets and ships but ditching the million+ man army and most of our overseas bases and nationbuilding failures aren't mutually exclusive. I guess it's just too bad it's all or nothing. It's pretty weird that you think 541,000 is a "million+ man" group. Have you tried engaging with reality recently? There's also only like 130,000 people stationed overseas in those bases, most of which have become bases of the home nation we're allied with.
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Feb 20, 2016 15:38
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YF19pilot posted:Guys, guys, it's totally cool. I heard at last year's Red Flag there was a group of self funded Libertarian Volunteer Union Militia Air Force participating in training. Many of the world's Air Forces were quite impressed by their performance. Here's an image, I just hope I'm not violating clearances. Just because libertarianism is dumb doesn't mean the stain of America's military power shouldn't be wiped off of the earth
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Feb 20, 2016 16:23
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Baronjutter posted:To be fair to the "recorded history" argument against libertarians, they say the exact same thing of anything left of Thatcher. Soviety union, leftism debunked. Anyone who wants even an ounce of government intervention in the economy or society is pissing on the graves Mao's victims. Might as well throw hitler in there too, national SOCIALISM after all. This parallel would be more striking if they just wanted some budget cuts slightly to the right of FDR. You can ask actually straight-up Marxist-Leninist Communists to account for the USSR but "anyone left of Thatcher" isn't the mirror image of people who literally want to undo any of the economic policy gains of progressivism since 1890.
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Feb 20, 2016 16:33
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SedanChair posted:Just because libertarianism is dumb doesn't mean the stain of America's military power shouldn't be wiped off of the earth Not immediately it shouldn't. Solutions that create more problems than they solve aren't solutions, and dismantling the American military overnight would do exactly that. The exception being support it Israel. That can stop immediately no problems.
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Feb 20, 2016 16:33
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Who What Now posted:Not immediately it shouldn't. Solutions that create more problems than they solve aren't solutions, and dismantling the American military overnight would do exactly that. We're obviously in very hypothetical waters here anyway, since the military would take over the government long before its power and scope were meaningfully reduced.
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Feb 20, 2016 16:45
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fishmech posted:It's pretty weird that you think 541,000 is a "million+ man" group. Have you tried engaging with reality recently? There's also only like 130,000 people stationed overseas in those bases, most of which have become bases of the home nation we're allied with. I'd tell you not to be pedantic when I say "army" lower-case but I know who I'm talking to. Active duty military is approx 1 1/4 million and reserves are like another 3/4 million IIRC. I wonder what percentage of those guys are necessary to maintain a navy that doesn't "need" 10 supercarrier groups, for example. We don't need them all because it's time for Europe and others to get off the NATO (or their local equivalent) welfare train. And I'm aware most troops aren't based overseas, it doesn't matter though. Troops at home or abroad are mostly a barrel of pork and make-work either way. Glad you stopped bringing up Israel though. 
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Feb 20, 2016 19:36
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